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View Full Version : MSD Conversion (Update: wiring picture added 11/4/07)



AJM
02-07-2007, 10:32 PM
EDIT!: pending further investigation this is for BD 95-99 legacy both ej22 and ej25 and 93-99 impreza(It would probably work on a ej18) only.


I'm not sure of it's compatiblity with older models.

I already posted this up somewhere else, but thought some of you might want to try it.


Here is the way it went. It all is alot easier than it seems.

1) Get MSD 8229 or 8239 (the difference is the terminals, the 8229 is round terminals, the 8239 is flat terminals. at this stage, its irrelevent)
This part usually retails for $80. find it on ebay for cheap.

2) Go to junk yard (or ebay), go to a 95-00 dodge Neon, 95-99 mistubishi eclipse GS or RS, 95-99 eagle talon ESI, 95-99 chrysler sebring 2.0L, 95-99 dodge avenger 2.0L.

3) Once you find one of these vehicles, find the ignition coil (its not hard, its the black box on the top of the valve cover). Find the connector end that plugs into your MSD ignition coil. Take that connector end off of the ignition coil and cut the wires going to it. leave about 3-4 inches before the connector so you have plenty of wire to work with. Also, for the EJ22, EJ25 phase 1 guys, grab the plug wires. trust me, later, you'll need them if your on a budget) and also 1 of the 4 bolts that hold the ignition coil to the valve cover.
These parts should be specifically "Damn cheap"

4) Go to a home despot (or lowe's or local hardware store) with the 1 bolt from that engine and one of your present bolt off of your stock ignition coil. Use the 1 bolt from that engine as a length reference, and the stock bolt as a thread pattern reference. Your only gonna use 2 of these new bolts, so dont bother buying more than 2 unless you have no other choise.

5) Now things kinda messy. Take the ignition coil on top of the intake manifold off, and take old the stock connector end off. once you do this, cut the old connector wiring off. Now wire in the new one wire for wire.

6) YAY! now using the bolts you got from (whateverplace) you can bolt it on and plug it in!

7) The next issue: If you have a phase 2 EJ22 EJ25, you can just plug up the stock ignition wires. If you have a phase 1 EJ22 or EJ25, buy some plug wires for a phase 2 and plug them in. Your done.

8) Now if you are the poorest of poor and cant AFFORD new wires, having those from the yard are now gonna come in handy. Take the wires from the engine you ripped stuff from the yard. Rip the boots off. They should literally pull right off. Take off the connector that plugs onto the ignition coil terminal off (note: it may be hard to do) then repeat the process with the stock wires. Put the new plugs that plug onto that MSD box onto the stock wires. ((IMPORTANT) The core of the wire MUST connect to the plug that attaches to the terminal. otherwise, all your work is in vain.) After you do all this, slide the spark plug boots from the plug wires pulled from the yard onto your modified spark plug wires. Make sure the end of the plug reaches the end of your boot. Then connect your modified stock wires to the MSD ignition. TADA your done!

The benifits of having done all this work.
Better MPG
Better Powerband
Better Sound (yes, makes your car sound better, a more definitive
throaty sound)
Idles smoother
Looks better on the engine
Makes you look smart for making it

Photo of Wiring


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u198/ajm32386/MSDwiring1.jpg


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u198/ajm32386/conversion.jpg


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u198/ajm32386/SubaruEngine5.jpg

Reason
02-07-2007, 10:42 PM
I need a Legacy to do this damnit :evil:

d1giPhux
02-07-2007, 10:45 PM
Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

Reason
02-07-2007, 10:59 PM
He says what it does, don't be like me and not read the posts. I at least read the main one. :smile:

MCarp22
02-07-2007, 11:04 PM
When we were writing the neon book we found that the normal neon coil had more or less the same output as the MSD coil. Using a normal neon coil ought to be cheaper.

Anyone know the specs of the stock subaru coil?

AJM
02-07-2007, 11:13 PM
Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

It cost me about $75 but I was savvy and got the ignition on ebay for about $10 below retail, and made my plugg wires. My friend had the splicing stuff ,but I don't imgaine that would cost alot. I got the wires from a u-pull-it junkyard for 50 cents each and the conector for like a buck...soo...yeah. Even with buying everything it shouldn't cost much more than $100-120. If you go the cheaper route like me under $80. If you wantt to grab some higher performance pluggs to really juice things up like I did that will cost you probably $40 (I bought bosch iridum {sp?}) of course that drives the price up to about $120 ,but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.

It is very noticeable. Feels like I gained 3-7 hp and the powerband itself is so much more well rounded. The car idles and drives smoother as well. I also have noticed about a 5-7 mpg increase over my dimond. Also, like I said my car sounds more muscular which is always a plus!

My main purpose for doing this? Better fuel economy and more power! I swear with the savings in mpg, It will pay for itself.

ivwarrior
02-07-2007, 11:27 PM
but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.


Sure it was the coil, and not just new plugs and wires that made the difference?

badbasser98
02-08-2007, 08:33 AM
Sure it was the coil, and not just new plugs and wires that made the difference?
+1

d1giPhux
02-08-2007, 09:21 AM
Nice writeup man! You should get some exhaust soundclips just for fun.. sounds like a cool project to do. How much did it cost you total? Are the benefits really noticeable? What is the MAIN purpose in doing this? Looks awesome man!

It cost me about $75 but I was savvy and got the ignition on ebay for about $10 below retail, and made my plugg wires. My friend had the splicing stuff ,but I don't imgaine that would cost alot. I got the wires from a u-pull-it junkyard for 50 cents each and the conector for like a buck...soo...yeah. Even with buying everything it shouldn't cost much more than $100-120. If you go the cheaper route like me under $80. If you wantt to grab some higher performance pluggs to really juice things up like I did that will cost you probably $40 (I bought bosch iridum {sp?}) of course that drives the price up to about $120 ,but I needed new pluggs anyway so, I don't really count that.

It is very noticeable. Feels like I gained 3-7 hp and the powerband itself is so much more well rounded. The car idles and drives smoother as well. I also have noticed about a 5-7 mpg increase over my dimond. Also, like I said my car sounds more muscular which is always a plus!

My main purpose for doing this? Better fuel economy and more power! I swear with the savings in mpg, It will pay for itself.

Thanks for the extra info. I did read the post, i was just asking what it MAINLY did.. aka, what it did best. Sounds like a great upgrade!

dankoneon81
02-08-2007, 05:00 PM
never thought I'd see people using stock neon stuff as up grades lol! I guess I'll give it a try seeing as how I have 4 of those coils laying and the connectors. Anyone wanna buy one?

AJM
02-08-2007, 11:02 PM
Actually, I put the msd on before the wires and new pluggs and saw a nice difference. ( I connected the old wires up ghetto fabulous before making the new ones.)

I'll explain why MSD is better than stock neon coil later. I'm beat from a long day at school.

Huffer
02-08-2007, 11:39 PM
AJM - good writeup. I have been thinking about an MSD coil pack for awhile now, and you've helped keep me interested in the idea. :)

Plays_with_Toys
02-09-2007, 12:21 AM
When we were writing the neon book we found that the normal neon coil had more or less the same output as the MSD coil. Using a normal neon coil ought to be cheaper.

Anyone know the specs of the stock subaru coil?

How could you measure the output, and can you measure the output of a subaru one and tell us the difference between it and the neon/msd?

Wiscon_Mark
02-09-2007, 02:21 AM
I'll explain why MSD is better than stock neon coil later. I'm beat from a long day at school.

I believe it has to do with how it fires the plugs?

backpack09
02-09-2007, 10:52 AM
That would be my guess to, but you are only using the coil of the MSD and not the ignition box which actually makes an MSD a Multiple spark system.

My guess is that the MSD coils are either just replacing old and tired coils, or they actually fire with more juice (volts, amps, watts or something like that :)) than the stockers.

dankoneon81
02-09-2007, 06:19 PM
IRRC from the service manual the neon coil is supposed to be capable of 60-80k volts and just me IT HURTS really bad. btw in the testing of various parts on my 2 neons and on my brothers we never really saw any gains between a stocker or the msd coil. however the msd dis2 igniotn box has proven to be wonderful especially the 2 step rev limiter. bad ass 60 foot times

dankoneon81
02-10-2007, 04:44 PM
oh just fyi I just remembered a important bit of info. Dont use the 95 style connector(round pin) the female end inside the connector has a dendency to open up just a lil over time and it will drop two cylinders and come back. I had a real problem with this not only on the black neon but also on my other neon. Thats the reason the I converted all my plugs to the 96+ style haven't had a problem since then. and I checked my surplus parts and I only have one 96 coil but two connectors. If you do this mod and in the future decide to add a msd ignition box they make a plug and play connector to make wiring it up a breeze.

MCarp22
02-11-2007, 11:19 AM
How could you measure the output

We did a before / after dyno test on a 300whp neon. Started with the MSD coil that it came with, and then swapped to my stock 100k coil. No difference in HP, no missfires, etc.

Wiscon_Mark
02-11-2007, 05:34 PM
How could you measure the output

We did a before / after dyno test on a 300whp neon. Started with the MSD coil that it came with, and then swapped to my stock 100k coil. No difference in HP, no missfires, etc.

So apparently a stock neon has a good ignition system. They did make good power out of that little 2.0L...

dankoneon81
02-11-2007, 06:08 PM
theres a good amount of people running 12 and even 11 on stock coils mike and back me up on that

Wiscon_Mark
02-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Okay, all this neon comparison is all cool, but I'd rather relate it to the Legacy :lol:

Obviously the OP said it made a difference, is there anyone else who has done something like this on their Legacy?

MCarp22
02-11-2007, 06:34 PM
is there anyone else who has done something like this on their Legacy?

I'd like to try it soon!

Wiscon_Mark
02-11-2007, 06:35 PM
Me too! If it is, I may just use a Neon coil...

AJM
02-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Stock Suabru igntion coil is 28k volts max


Stock Neon ignition coil 34k volts MAX

MSD ignition coil 36K volts MAX

Screamin demon by Howell automotive 40K volts MAX
(so much voltage, you have to re-gap the spark plugs)

The stock neon coil has higher resistors than the MSD one, so the maximum amount of voltage isn't achieved. the screamin' demon I don't suggest because it can have adverse effects with other mods. (rough idle, engine knocking,etc.) So, for using the screamin' demon, you have to have other ignition mods to stablize it too.

backpack09
02-15-2007, 11:12 PM
Wow. The stock neon Coil is a hell of a lot more powerfull than the stocker. That looks, like a great cheap upgrade.

Thanks for the DIY.

dankoneon81
02-16-2007, 07:15 PM
screamin demon + regapped plugs= bad. Alot of .org guys were having problems with that

AJM
02-16-2007, 11:09 PM
Which is hwy I don't suggest it.

ryankenn
02-17-2007, 04:55 AM
How hardy are the MSD Coils ie, are they easy to wreck. I've found some used ones, but its buyer beware. Would you really have to do something bad to ruin that piece?

AJM
02-17-2007, 12:43 PM
How hardy are the MSD Coils ie, are they easy to wreck. I've found some used ones, but its buyer beware. Would you really have to do something bad to ruin that piece?


No, you;d have to really abuse one to break it. A friend of mine had an engine fire and his msd still worked fine afterwards.

AJM
02-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Also, the stock one isnt very durable. The cover and the insulation material isnt very durable for withstanding the heat created in the engine bay of engines that are pushed hard. Typically, they only send out only 31k due to the weaker insulation material.

The MSD is stronger in every aspect. Basically, when you have a stronger spark, you get better sound and MPG over all. The car itself feels more power by seat of pants ,and as we all know, seat of pants and actual dyno are two entirly different things.

mr_choung
02-25-2007, 08:51 AM
hey amj,
just wondering what do i need. i know where to get the bolts and coil pack but the plugs, would phase II ej25 fit? i believe they have a longer neck while the phaseI have a shorter neck. lmk thanks

choung

ryankenn
02-25-2007, 06:13 PM
Well I've got the plugs, and coil ( its only $92CAD new from Lordco ) and I'm just waiting to go out and get a Neon harness. I'm going to add this at the same time as my ECU Flash arrives ( next week ).

I'm curious, can you just buy Legacy plug wires ( MSD or Champion etc etc ) and they work with the terminals, or do I need to look for something for a Neon, that works with the Subaru plugs and wire length.

THX.

AJM
02-25-2007, 08:47 PM
mr_choung: are you asking if if fits on a phase II ej25? or if the phase II ej25 coil fits the EJ22? the EJ22 and EJ25 phase II have the same connector style on the plug wires as the neon, eclipse, blah blah blah.

but yeah, this will work on a EJ25 both phase I and II. I dont really see how the connector neck is relivent.

the difference between the two (phase I and phase II) is that the phase I ignition has the plugs fit into the ignition coil. and the phase II the plug wires fit onto the coil terminals, just like on a neon.

which is why after you do this mod on a phase I, you have to get phase II wires(or make your own).

ryankenn: Just buy (MSD, champion, accel, whatever you get) for the phase II EJ22 or phase II EJ25 and that answers your question. thats the 98-00 impreza and the 97-99 legacy spark plug wires.

ryankenn
03-01-2007, 05:15 PM
I bought all the parts up to do this, and didn't ever really read what cars it was compatible with. I have an 02 Legacy, and from what I just saw under the hood as I went to purchased the bolts, it might not work.

My ignition connector is not only on the wrong side, it has four wires coming from the car itself. I'm hoping when I peel back the sheath, two of the wires are combined as one ground ( in the Neon I noted that the plug is three wires at the coil, but the ground splits into two wires about 6 inches down the line ).

Have I purchased all this in vain?

Ryan

ryankenn
03-01-2007, 06:49 PM
Also, for those who want to know,

The bolt you need is M6 x 2". That's a metric bolt that is the same thread pattern as the Subie, but 2" long like the Neon.

EDIT - Luckily they allowed me to return the coil, and I'm just swapping out the plugs and wires. If this mod works like it does for the pre 00 MY cars, there must be a four wire equivalent part that MSD makes that can work with out system. The science behind the coil isn't exactly staggering, so it stands to reason somewhere out there is a Chrysler/Dodge?Misti with a four wire MSD part like mine.

Phew!

I now have a connector I paid $10CAD for and two bolts.

AJM
03-02-2007, 12:16 PM
well. It was ment for the 95-99 legacy 2.2L SOHC and 2.5L SOHC phase one and two. I'll experiment to figure out how to make this applicable to later legacys. its a 3 pin connector type and not a 4 pin. BUT i will go through and figure out how to make it work!

Wiscon_Mark
03-02-2007, 01:28 PM
The EJ25 SOHC is phaseII which didn't fall under the 95-99 Legacy MYs. The EJ25 between 96 and 99 was DOHC.

ryankenn
03-03-2007, 01:05 AM
The AllData information for this particular harness if frickin' weak. From searching around for about 20 min, the only wiring diagram I could find any type of pinout for it was on the ground distribution one. Pin 3 is our ground wire. Pins 1,2, and 4 are the coils.

It outlines a method for testing whether the coils is good. Its one coil between 1 and 2, and one coil between 2 and 4. I think being a dual coil system, we are stuck using MSD DIS-2 ignition, and they don't look to have an option for a coil.

Let me know if I can help, my subsrciption to AllData is pretty good.

AJM
03-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the correction Mark.

the first and fourth are probably the data wires that tell which terminal to fire and when. follow the ground wire to where it grounds. IF it has to go to the computer before grounding, this will be harder to do. If not, then just ground the ground wire to the manifold. believe it or not, this MSD ignition coil is a dual coil system. The first pin sends firing data to the two cylinders it fires to and the 3rd pin sends firing data to the two cylinders it goes to. this should work on it. SO the yellow solid wire is the 12v (probably the 2nd wires)

If you can, Please post some pics showing the color of each wire. The main reason i can think of having the ground cable is if it links back to the comp where it moniters the amount of resistance.

with the 3 pin ones. The is the 1st, pin is firing data for two cylinders, and the 2nd is the 12v power cable and the 3rd is the firing data for the other two cylinders. and the ground IS the plug after it fires.

yeah, more research is still required. Still, since i dont own one of these newer ones. I cant do all the search and follow work. all i can do is the internet searching. for this newer model, i should post up another thread about. I should have stated its was for the BD. But yeah. This works just fine on the DOHC 2.5L BDs.

ryankenn
03-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Sounds good so far.

I found this post over at RS25.com about how some guy hack and slashed our OE coil to work with the MSD DIS-2 iginition, maybe some info there may be helpful. From my ALLData wiring diagram, it looks like the ground goes to the ECU, but is also just tied directly to the chassis. Its unknown to me through reading yet whether its using any data from the ground.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.p ... hlight=msd (http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11098&highlight=msd)

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/451/88920010fh2.th.gif (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88920010fh2.gif)

AJM
03-05-2007, 09:43 AM
Basically, this mixed data gives ya two options:

the wire diagram gives ya
1) ground the ignition to the manifold and switch out the MSD ignition coil. BECAUSE it says that THAT wire that runs to the comp, chassis, and ignition is just the ground for the computer and the ignition. SO according to that wire digram, you can bolt on the MSD in, switch out the connection plugs. and route the ground wire to the manifold.

2) according to the guy at the site. you need MSD DIS-2 AND the MSD ignition coil. you wire the ground from the ignition to the MSD DIS-2s control input. Then you wire the 3 main wires to the MSD coil and your done.

personally, i would go with option number one. its simpler and cheaper. and according to all reliable info (the info you gave me about the coil test, wire diagram, and what i know of these MSD components) option one looks like the way two go. Still, none the less. I need to know the voltage output of the present coil. The fact that it requires a grounding cable to the chassis is interesting. And i think it may be because the amount of voltage that goes throughout it cant ground on the block because the block has other things grounding on it.

So to me, here is the sound most plan.
Go through the first option. instead, just cut out the igntion ground wire entirly. Then wire up the MSD ignition coil as per direction. after this, get some igntion coil wires for nology(or Xtune cheap ebay version of nology) that have a grounding strap, and mount that ground to the chassis. That way, It would do as per the stock igntion and send the spent energy to ground at the chassis.

All together, this is more expensive at $230 total

or you can just use the stock wires and ground everything thats grounding on the engine block onto the chassis/firewall and wire up the MSD igntion coil and only spend a cool total $80.

Wiscon_Mark
03-05-2007, 09:48 AM
I agree with your logic except for the bit about not being able to ground to the block. That makes very little sense to me. The largest ground wire goes to the block - that way lies the path of least resistance. If you're really that worried, run a separate wire to the battery directly.

AJM
03-05-2007, 09:54 AM
yeah, that would easily work too. That and a grounding kit would actully be a great idea. ground kits are weird. They dont really make more power so much as make it run smoother. that and the electronics in the cabin.

ryankenn
03-05-2007, 12:39 PM
Here's the connector wire colors,

Looking into the connector end, from left to right:


PIN 1: Red/green stripe
PIN 2: Yellow/black stripe
PIN 3: Black ( ground )
PIN 4: Blue

The only problem I forsee is figuring out which pin is which on the neon connector, the wiring diagrams just don't exist on AllData to tell me which wires are the two signal wires ( and which is which ) and which is the +12V wire. I think if I try this, I'll just ground the PIN 3 wire directly to the MSD bolt terminal.

Oh, that's another thing, I'll have to measure the holes to see if the MSD coil will even line up with two. Our coil isn't centered on the engine, its more to the left.

AJM
03-05-2007, 09:14 PM
yeah, even though it is placed to the side like that, the coil connector is on the right of the coil, just like the neon one. And yeah. The 1st pin is the 1st pin on the neon, the second is the second, and the 4th is the 3rd.

and if it doesnt fit on there, and there ends up being no method to bolt it on there. I will make you an adapter plate. if you want to still do this.

as far as the wire colors go. this doesn't surprise me. those are the same colors as that ones i've been working with.

ryankenn
03-06-2007, 01:44 AM
Well I have the connector, and Lordco ( auto part chain ) allows returns so I think I'll give it a whirl. I'm just going to use a slip on connector to put on the wires ends and slide them onto my igntion harness before I cut it. Then I'll ground the 3 pin wire to the bolt holding the MSD down. The worst thing that can happen is it won't fire.

Don't know if I'll get to it tomorrow, but perhaps.

Ryan

grayguy
03-30-2007, 11:45 AM
So this mod will work on my 98 LGT? I'm new to the subie world, and don't know all this phase 1 phase 2 stuff.

Reason
03-30-2007, 11:47 AM
So this mod will work on my 98 LGT? I'm new to the subie world, and don't know all this phase 1 phase 2 stuff.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewforum.php?f=41

AJM
03-30-2007, 03:47 PM
So this mod will work on my 98 LGT? I'm new to the subie world, and don't know all this phase 1 phase 2 stuff.



Yes, in fact it will be easier on your model.

Plays_with_Toys
08-29-2007, 11:28 PM
so I just picked up a neon coil, plug, and the plug wires from it for $25. Figured I'd start here since they put out 34k volts? I know it was very close to the MSD numbers. The one I picked up had the flat terminals, and actually, my subaru plug should in theory go in, but physically it won't. Despite being the same size and everything. I'll modify my plug wires for the time being. I also picked up some NGK BKR5E plugs. One step hotter than stock. Installed an AEM dry flow filter on the intake, and will be reinstalling my lightened pulley with a shim on the keyway. Should spring some life into it.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Reason
08-29-2007, 11:38 PM
I may grab a MSD coil for my Neon, I can sell you the stock coil.

Plays_with_Toys
08-30-2007, 12:13 AM
I just bought one... why would I want 2? And what's with the picture in the sig?

Reason
08-30-2007, 12:16 AM
My bad, I didn't pick up on that.

Wiscon_Mark
08-30-2007, 09:05 AM
Yeah, Picture sig's really annoying, Shane.

Dan - be careful with the hotter plugs - you might burn your piston rings! :lol:

That's what an advance auto guy told me...he obviously doesn't know that Subarus run pig rich. I'd recommend getting an o2 meter if you're going to start messing with that ratio though, you could run lean if the conditions were right.

scoobroo
10-10-2007, 05:59 PM
hey i want to do this mod to my car but im having trouble finding the connector for the neon coil. does anyone have one that i may buy off them?

AussieDan
10-10-2007, 09:04 PM
I just went to the local pick-n-pull, $1.10 for the connector. If I had known more people wanted them I would have grabbed 2 or 3.

For anyone who has done this mod successfully, can you confirm that the yellow wire on the subaru harness should be connected to the leftmost pin on the msd coil (with the connector facing you), and the other 2 wires in the same order?

Jedi Taxi
10-11-2007, 03:35 PM
AJM and i will just post a pic of it.

scoobroo
10-11-2007, 05:19 PM
i just got a coil off a 97 neon and i got the connector for it. first thing i notice is the cylinder numbers dont match up to the original, is that ok? Second, the mounts dont match up either, i will only be able to put one bolt in. i have a 98 lgt. what do you guys think?

Jedi Taxi
10-11-2007, 08:01 PM
a sheet of aluminum, a drill, and some bolts and nuts.

Reason
10-11-2007, 08:06 PM
a sheet of aluminum, a drill, and some bolts and nuts.

That's my plan if I ever get a Legacy....I might abandon the idea of getting another Subaru. I'm getting urges for a G36 again :twisted:

AJM
10-11-2007, 11:00 PM
a sheet of aluminum, a drill, and some bolts and nuts.

That's my plan if I ever get a Legacy....I might abandon the idea of getting another Subaru. I'm getting urges for a G36 again :twisted:


Whatever you get...it's time to let the neon go...


Which reminds me site owner...do you still want those neon wires? :grin:

I've been broke as hell, haven't had the money to ship. I will this weekend. if you don't want 'em i'll give them to whoever wants them here.

Tokio
10-12-2007, 11:26 AM
has anyone noticed a difference between the spark plug-side connectors of phase 1 and phase 2 plug wires? at a quick glance (real quick), the #2's looked to be a little different, maybe longer.

also, if anyone has a spare round style coil-connector, id gladly buy it off of you. there are no pick-n-pulls local to me... :(

scoobroo
10-12-2007, 01:48 PM
hey i got another quick question. does it matter which way the coil connector faces on the motor. Does it have to face to the right like it was on the neon or can it face to the left like the original?

Plays_with_Toys
10-12-2007, 04:19 PM
I had the plug on facing passenger side. And yeah, the numbers don't match, but it didn't matte. Though it probably would if you put the plug facing driver side. In fact you probably couldn't even start the car.

Phase 1 wires were equal length side to side. Phase 2 are different lengths and for some reason use different connectors at the coil pack. Don't really know why.

I used phase one wires, got some new plug snaps for the ends of the wires from NAPA, and then I used the rubber boots from the neon wires. I had a part number for the spark plug wire terminals from NAPA, but I don't know it anymore.

AJM
11-04-2007, 08:32 PM
has anyone noticed a difference between the spark plug-side connectors of phase 1 and phase 2 plug wires? at a quick glance (real quick), the #2's looked to be a little different, maybe longer.

also, if anyone has a spare round style coil-connector, id gladly buy it off of you. there are no pick-n-pulls local to me... :(


I've got a round connector neon coil.

How's $35 sound?

Tokio
11-16-2007, 10:41 AM
its $25 new from dealer.

AJM
11-22-2007, 06:15 PM
its $25 new from dealer.
Really?! Go for it! Most coil packs around here go for $75.

Tokio
11-24-2007, 08:43 AM
lol, i mean i need the wiring harness connector for the round style, not a round style coil pack.

coil packs are $75 here too.

Kris
12-16-2007, 09:29 PM
1st post :smile:


just did mine works perfect just like AJM said.

i went to the dealership for the stock ignition coil and their price is $214Can

Thanks for this write up it only cost me $117Can for the coil and neon wire. :grin:

Jedi Taxi
12-18-2007, 01:44 AM
more power to ya for saving money! what differences have you noticed?

dankoneon81
12-18-2007, 10:25 AM
The round pin ones suck!!. the terminal spreads a lil and then you have two dropped cylinders. stay with the flat pin. plus the flat pin connectors have a lock on them the round ones don't.

Reason
12-18-2007, 09:22 PM
I'm still waiting for my harness :-(

HotBoxer
01-10-2008, 11:34 AM
does it matter which post on the coil connect to which cylinder? or shoiuld i just set it up the way the stock one is and hook the plug wires up that way?

Reason
01-10-2008, 12:56 PM
does it matter which post on the coil connect to which cylinder? or shoiuld i just set it up the way the stock one is and hook the plug wires up that way?

If it doesn't start up you will know. lol Are they numbered at all?

AussieDan
01-10-2008, 01:01 PM
does it matter which post on the coil connect to which cylinder? or shoiuld i just set it up the way the stock one is and hook the plug wires up that way?
Put it in just as the stocker was and you'll be fine ;)

HotBoxer
01-10-2008, 04:23 PM
thanks dan. i just got done putting those wires and coil on there about an hour ago. it didnt start at first but i flipped it around and it worked just fine. i immediately noticed a smoother idle and definitely better low end out of the hole which disappeared when i put the CAI on. ive yet to see any gains in my mileage yet but i just got my license back yesterday.

jackoctober
03-02-2008, 06:57 PM
This is a great idea, I'm totally doing this

Benfolio
04-18-2008, 06:40 PM
Me too.

I have no choice.

I think I have a bad coil. Plugs #1 and #4 were shot and the others were fine, replaced the plugs, now I'm getting misfire codes for #1 and #4 :mad:

Can't wait till the juinkyard opens up Monday!!!!

SUBBIEEDUDE!
04-22-2008, 09:48 PM
i went to the yard today and picked up a plymouth neon coil(thinking its prob the same as dodge). and they are labelled, i just wanted to know if i could hook it up the way it is on the legacy or do i have to mitch match the https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/04/Picture03411-1.jpg


and also the wires are differnts, the neon coil has a black wire, green/orange, and blue/brown, how do i know what wire goes with what?

decke48
04-22-2008, 10:51 PM
you would need to splice the wiring together but it should work.. let me ask why do you want a neon coil on your subie?

SUBBIEEDUDE!
04-22-2008, 10:59 PM
well ive read the msd produces 36kvolts and the stock neon produces 34k volts and mine produces 28kvolts, i got the coil for free i just wanna see if it really does what ive been told!

02legacygt
04-25-2008, 09:38 AM
your totally right, however make sure that if you go to the junk yard your getting the the kind with the spspade conector as dodge neones had faulty coils from the the years of 95-97 that is why they switched from the round pin to the spade connector, they output just about the same as the MSD coil pack the only true upgrade in power(voltage) would be the screaming demon pack, now anything for us legacy owners , stock neon pack, MSD or screaming demon would be an upgrade, becuase ur stock is running right around 28v, and neons are running about 36v, and the screaming demon is running around 40ish, make sure if you upgrade you buy better WIRES and plugs that will handle the more voltage, you dont want to start your wires on fire and melt your plugs, neon stock wires a 7.5mm depending on what motor it might even be 8mm,

SUBBIEEDUDE!
04-25-2008, 10:35 PM
yah i was sure not to get the round connector. but do you know what wire goes with what? becuase they are totaly differnt colors

birukun
05-02-2008, 03:33 PM
I have a new in-the-box coil with the round pins - does anyone know the part # for the connector? I am having trouble finding a junkyard that has Neons that have not been stripped already. The local Dodge dealer was no help, either.

dankoneon81
05-05-2008, 06:29 PM
send the round pin back and get the flat pin coil read the earleir posts. I'v had 2 95 neons and both had problems with the coil connection put the new flat pin coils on and never had a problem again

decke48
05-05-2008, 09:17 PM
I have a new in-the-box coil with the round pins - does anyone know the part # for the connector? I am having trouble finding a junkyard that has Neons that have not been stripped already. The local Dodge dealer was no help, either.

dealers dont offer any part of the harness sperate than the whole harness. so you got to go find one in a junkyard.. i might be going soon ill look for you.

birukun
05-06-2008, 11:40 AM
Unfortunately it is not one I can return. So I figured I will use it anyhow. I have every intention of switching later, but for now I will make this one work. I may look at modifying the pins and/or the connector to make it more snug.

Thanks for checking the local boneyard decke48.

dankoneon81
05-06-2008, 07:43 PM
if needed i have i think 3 flat pin and 1 round pin connecotr at my parents house. 6 shipped

track8
06-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Just got done with this swap. I chose to use the MSD coil so all I needed was the plug.

So I head to a local yard, they don't have one, go to another and behold! A compatible Outback is being parted out in the front row! Needless to say, I also now have an Outback rear anti-sway bar in the GT. Sweet.

Anyway, the engine no longer drops random cylinders at idle. I haven't noticed anything else improving yet, but I only drove around the block so far. If any earth-shattering improvements surface, I'll post up again.

birukun
06-22-2008, 11:58 PM
Pics are worth a thousand words.

Dankoneon81 hooked me up with a coil setup (flat pin - THANKS!) and I am getting to wiring it up like AJM described earlier.

I have a Phase II EJ22 - 4 wires to the coil. Here is a pic of the wiring like AJM described

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/06/DSC01547-1.jpg

Subaru on the left, Neon wiring on the right.

Sub Neon
1 1
2 2
3 N/A
4 3

Car cranks but no joy. Tell me what I did wrong and I will put some pretty pics of the good hookup here...... Thanks!

Reason
06-23-2008, 12:07 AM
The firing order could be wrong. How are the wires hooked up to the MSD coil vs your stock coil? Is it in the right order?

birukun
06-23-2008, 10:52 AM
I put them in the stock location and then tried them crossed on each side, like 1 - 3 and 3-1, etc.

On the Neon coil, +12v is the center pin, right?
( Update - Found this in the 1997 Neon Service Manual, answers this question)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/06/NeonCoil-1.jpg

Thanks-
Bill in SD

track8
06-23-2008, 07:45 PM
birkun, did you say that your Subaru has the 4th wire deal? On page 2 of this thread ryankenn was working on a 4 wire thing, I think he grounded it and I can't find any more on it so, not sure if that worked.

I s'pose he'd have more questions if it hadn't though.

May as well post my alluded-to follow up while I'm here. My initial impression was not complete as all the driving I did was to move the car about in the parking lot. The occasional dropped cylinder still exists, the engine runs the same and there is no measurable difference in fuel consumption. I guess my stock coil was ok.

dankoneon81
06-24-2008, 08:40 AM
try connecting the 4th wire to the center post. the factory wiring on the neon equipped with the noise supressor has the suppresesor tied into the center wire

birukun
06-24-2008, 10:43 AM
I had to put everything back fro now, I will be working on it when the family (except me) will be gone for 2 weeks in July.

Things I know that are true:

Yellow wire on Subaru goes to center wire on neon coil; Black wire on Subaru is unused or ground that attaches to a bolt holding the coil in. The other two wires are used to 'fire' the right cylinders.

I think I need to flip the whole coil around so that the connector is aligned on the right like all others. That is about the last thing I can try unless I discover something else 'special' about the ECU that comes in the Phase II 2.2 MAP engine....

That pigtail you sent me is the perfect length, THANKS AGAIN!

More to come.....

track8
06-24-2008, 06:51 PM
When I first got done with my install, while cranking, the engine would pop and backfire. I switched the plug wires (flipped the position of the coil also) as the leads were all soldered & I didn't want to re-solder them, and it fired right up.

If you aren't at least getting some signs of life, there is likely more to this.

Reason
06-24-2008, 07:04 PM
So what is the proper way to wire this up? I'll be doing this in a week or two.

dankoneon81
06-24-2008, 08:09 PM
mount the coil exactly like stock and run the wire exactly like stock and but the plug wires where they were stock on a 3 wire its a quick easy process. took me 5 minutes

track8
06-25-2008, 06:28 PM
Car >plug
Yellow >green/orange stripe
Blue >Blue/orange stripe
Red >Black/white stripe

This will allow the coil to be mounted with the plug facing the passenger side of the engine, away from the throttle cables. The MSD logo will also be facing backwards, oh well.

The coil also sits higher, possibly touching the hood insulation and the center scoop mounting stud, if you have a scoop.

Reason
06-30-2008, 07:04 PM
Ok I got the plug from Andrew today and I want to hook this up. It's the round stlye I will be using since thats the MSD coil pack I have. It's not clear what goes to what. PLUS how the ignition wires go on the pack.

Harness wires are brown,black w/ blue stripe, black w/red stripe.

Reason
06-30-2008, 07:12 PM
And on the car is blue, yellow and red w/green

Reason
07-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Anyone have the round terminal MSD??

track8
07-01-2008, 06:13 PM
Which color leads to each center terminal? Match those and the other two can be switched as need be.

Reason
07-01-2008, 09:45 PM
On the neon harness it's black/red stripe

On the car it's yellow

track8
07-01-2008, 11:54 PM
That should be the constant power source, the others are triggers. The other two are virtually interchangeable depending on how you prefer to orient the coil lead position.

I like it to not be near the throttle cables. Personal preference.

Reason
07-02-2008, 12:10 AM
I like to line up the coil the correct way and see what I can do with the wires. Does anyone know the numbers on the MSD coil?

track8
07-02-2008, 05:35 PM
Does anyone know the numbers on the MSD coil?

Do you mean the plug wire number correlation?

Reason
07-02-2008, 07:45 PM
Does anyone know the numbers on the MSD coil?

Do you mean the plug wire number correlation?

Yes

track8
07-02-2008, 08:49 PM
If my install is any indicator, I don't, really. I just switched the wires all about until it ran. :grin:

Reason
07-02-2008, 08:51 PM
I'm going to go and mess with it now. I just want to do it quick and have no problems.

Grafton
07-18-2008, 04:40 PM
i have an what looks like an aftermarket coil already on my legacy, it has a 3 blade connector on it, it looks the same as the flat connector on the msd coil, is that the stock harness connector? if not is the msd coil going to be a drop on upgrade if the plug is wired corretly?

Reason
07-18-2008, 04:48 PM
There are two different kinds of coil packs. I have a male style coil pack for sale.

track8
07-18-2008, 05:44 PM
i have an what looks like an aftermarket coil already on my legacy, it has a 3 blade connector on it, it looks the same as the flat connector on the msd coil, is that the stock harness connector? if not is the msd coil going to be a drop on upgrade if the plug is wired corretly?The flat blade Neon plug looks very similar, enough so that I tried to plug it in to my stock plug but alas, they are different.

siscu
07-25-2008, 07:35 PM
Hi all,
i have a 2.2 SOHC BC and i´ve seen that my coil harness is diferent as yours, but i don´t know if rewiring mine like yours would be the solution.
Here are some pics of what i have, lets see if we can throw some light on it....


http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9992/stockcoilplugek9.jpg

as i can see on it, the yellow wire is in the middle of the plug, when in yours and in the Haynes manual is at the left of the plug. The yellow one, after the plug, is a double red wiring, so, at this point , i´m a little confused...

And then, this is the only plug i could find... it´s from a 2.0 stratus of the mid 90s, if it´s not the correct or alike ( i dont care about wire colors... but yes the order :roll: )
tell me please and i will look for another that will fit

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1221/stratusplugfrontun9.jpg

Keep this up!! it´s so interesting!!

Reason
07-25-2008, 11:21 PM
Yes the stratus, sebring?, neon, Eclipse and PT cruiser harness should all work. As for wiring I wouldn't know, sorry. I'm sure someone else will know.

AJM
07-26-2008, 03:06 AM
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

siscu
07-26-2008, 09:26 AM
Thank you for the answer about the plug conector. AJM, what i mean is , it doesn´t matter the order that i have now in my coil ? if i put them like yours will work sure?

Thanks again, and sorry for my english, i know is hard to understand sometimes.... xD

AJM
07-26-2008, 02:43 PM
Well, it should work. That's the way my harness worked for ages with no problems in that order.

Grafton
07-27-2008, 01:31 PM
are any changes like a different gap necessary?

rad rex
07-28-2008, 10:45 AM
I wound up getting a stock Neon coil and it will only fit over one bolt hole. It looks like the MSD will fit two of the four but the Neon coild will definately not. I only wasted $26.50 for both the coild and plug from the local yard so no huge loss. I wouldn't reccomend getting a Neon coil

Reason
07-28-2008, 10:53 AM
The MSD only fits one hole on my intake manifold.

track8
07-28-2008, 05:53 PM
The MSD fits Neons, therefore the bolt hole layout is likely the same, not so for Subaru as it's made to fit a Neon. What to do? Adapter plate.

Pay close attention to the mark on the coil, the interference with the hood scoop bolt has been dealt with however, the marks indicate damage which led to this issue: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18058 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18058)

Stupid fake hood scoop bolts.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/07/Picturesofblackpinkcar004-1.jpg

Reason
07-28-2008, 06:06 PM
track8, make some more of those plates and sell them, I'd buy one, just make them a little thinner if you could. :-)

track8
07-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Made thinner they won't hold a thread well. It's only 3/16 thick as it is. I ended up flipping the plate, moving the coil closer to the alternator to end the clearance thing.

If I thought I'd sell more than 3 of them, I'd consider a run. Don't know how I'd price it, I used scrap stock for mine. Material costs are horrible at the moment.

J.McDonald Knives
07-29-2008, 06:02 PM
Made thinner they won't hold a thread well. It's only 3/16 thick as it is. I ended up flipping the plate, moving the coil closer to the alternator to end the clearance thing.

If I thought I'd sell more than 3 of them, I'd consider a run. Don't know how I'd price it, I used scrap stock for mine. Material costs are horrible at the moment.It wouldn't be too hard to make a couple of rails from flat iron and use a nut instead of threading the material.

track8
07-29-2008, 07:04 PM
It wouldn't be too hard to make a couple of rails from flat iron and use a nut instead of threading the material.

The two mounting patterns are in interference with each other so the nuts would be under a corner of the mounting bosses on the intake. Take a Neon coil and look through the holes where the stock coil goes.

Airgne
08-11-2008, 02:41 AM
will this work a 91 ss?

subaru_terrence
09-26-2008, 01:30 PM
I need help asap please!

I was about to install my MSD coil pack but i found out that the stock connector on my 02 leggy has 4 wires as opposed to the neon harness only has 3 wires

what am i supposed to do?
How do i connect them together?

thanks

xXGTBspecXx
09-26-2008, 03:58 PM
i think was only to work on the 95-99 legacy man but im not sure

99SUS SFD
09-26-2008, 04:45 PM
EDIT!: pending further investigation this is for BD 95-99 legacy both ej22 and ej25 and 93-99 impreza(It would probably work on a ej18) only.

decke48
09-26-2008, 05:56 PM
it wont work on the driver style coils (4 plug) it uses a ground that goes back to the ecu to detect misfires better. its on phase II engines and on some 97 2.5l

subaru_terrence
09-26-2008, 06:07 PM
oh crap! are you serious!? damn......
wasted my $100 something :(

rougeben83
09-26-2008, 09:01 PM
oh crap! are you serious!? damn......
wasted my $100 something :(

Reading before buying is usually a good idea... :wink:

decke48
09-26-2008, 09:16 PM
ahh im sure someone on the forum will buy it

subaru_terrence
09-27-2008, 11:04 AM
I actually thought I saw some guy's BE with the MSD coil before I made the purchase :(

Reason
09-29-2008, 12:46 AM
Basically, this mixed data gives ya two options:

the wire diagram gives ya
1) ground the ignition to the manifold and switch out the MSD ignition coil. BECAUSE it says that THAT wire that runs to the comp, chassis, and ignition is just the ground for the computer and the ignition. SO according to that wire digram, you can bolt on the MSD in, switch out the connection plugs. and route the ground wire to the manifold.

2) according to the guy at the site. you need MSD DIS-2 AND the MSD ignition coil. you wire the ground from the ignition to the MSD DIS-2s control input. Then you wire the 3 main wires to the MSD coil and your done.

personally, i would go with option number one. its simpler and cheaper. and according to all reliable info (the info you gave me about the coil test, wire diagram, and what i know of these MSD components) option one looks like the way two go. Still, none the less. I need to know the voltage output of the present coil. The fact that it requires a grounding cable to the chassis is interesting. And i think it may be because the amount of voltage that goes throughout it cant ground on the block because the block has other things grounding on it.

So to me, here is the sound most plan.
Go through the first option. instead, just cut out the igntion ground wire entirly. Then wire up the MSD ignition coil as per direction. after this, get some igntion coil wires for nology(or Xtune cheap ebay version of nology) that have a grounding strap, and mount that ground to the chassis. That way, It would do as per the stock igntion and send the spent energy to ground at the chassis.

All together, this is more expensive at $230 total

or you can just use the stock wires and ground everything thats grounding on the engine block onto the chassis/firewall and wire up the MSD igntion coil and only spend a cool total $80.


I agree with your logic except for the bit about not being able to ground to the block. That makes very little sense to me. The largest ground wire goes to the block - that way lies the path of least resistance. If you're really that worried, run a separate wire to the battery directly.


Here's the connector wire colors,

Looking into the connector end, from left to right:


PIN 1: Red/green stripe
PIN 2: Yellow/black stripe
PIN 3: Black ( ground )
PIN 4: Blue

The only problem I forsee is figuring out which pin is which on the neon connector, the wiring diagrams just don't exist on AllData to tell me which wires are the two signal wires ( and which is which ) and which is the +12V wire. I think if I try this, I'll just ground the PIN 3 wire directly to the MSD bolt terminal.

Oh, that's another thing, I'll have to measure the holes to see if the MSD coil will even line up with two. Our coil isn't centered on the engine, its more to the left.

liquidracing
09-30-2008, 06:30 PM
just wondering....since i work as an electrical supplier, i wonder exactly what is so complicating about 3 wires or 4 wires :-? . it's basically the same thing as line voltage applications, whereas you're taking a 240volt,2 pole 4 wire configuration and dropping one leg off the 240 volt circuit and connecting only three wires, thus making it run 120volt. see, 240volt 2 pole uses two hots, one nuetral, and one ground. if you drop a leg, then you get half the sine wave...half the voltage(120)...d.c. does not operate that different. i think i'm gonna do this thingy here, complete with pics as i go, just so we can lay this bad boy down, however, those of you who have done it correctly, sound like either your holding back info. or didn't have pics to begin with. sorry, don't mean to sound dickish, i just think this is actually easier than the eg33 swaps i've heard about that involve entire "weeding" to be done. o.k. having said that, is it possible that some people have a slightly different wire harness, due to lack of wire manufacturer supply to sia or japan? i say this because, the electrictians i work with everyday wind up having to have alternate colors or "candystriping" wire to signify that this particular wire is in place of what should have been, again, due to lack of supply? just a thought. again, don't mean to sound dickish, or offend anyone. so, if luck has it, i may be able to do something this weekend, but, is it ACTUALLY worth my time? 'cause it was on my '75 cb750k. hmmmm.....anyone ever thought of using dyna coils for 4 cylinder motorcycles? they are made to rev up to retarded numbers....how's 20,000rpm capable sound :twisted: ? don't believe it? check out dyna coils. the only thing i'm concerned about on that route is ohm load, don't know if the "ohmage" is compatable. dyna puts out a lot of different ohm loads for the same coils. sorry for the repulsively long reply. :grin:

liquidracing
09-30-2008, 06:34 PM
oh oh oh oh, one more thing......14,000rpm rotary valve heads to go with the 20,000rpm coils....mmmmmmmm toasty! :cool:

Reason
09-30-2008, 07:02 PM
I agree with liquid racing, all of us that have done this should try to contribute to put together a more complete tutorial for different ignition sets ups. I mean it's not really difficult, but maybe we can lay future questions to rest.

track8
09-30-2008, 07:03 PM
i think i'm gonna do this thingy here, complete with pics as i go, just so we can lay this bad boy down, however, those of you who have done it correctly, sound like either your holding back info. or didn't have pics to begin with.

'cause it was on my '75 cb750k. hmmmm.....anyone ever thought of using dyna coils for 4 cylinder motorcycles? they are made to rev up to retarded numbers....how's 20,000rpm capable sound :twisted: ? don't believe it? check out dyna coils. the only thing i'm concerned about on that route is ohm load, don't know if the "ohmage" is compatable. dyna puts out a lot of different ohm loads for the same coils. sorry for the repulsively long reply. :grin:

Go ahead and do this thingy, it seems inconclusive as to the ability to do this swap on the 4 wire cars.

I thought about Dyna coils on this and my other car, 'till I saw that an MSD/Neon coil is compatible, and happens to be much cheaper https://shop.pingelonline.com/iwwidb.pv ... tem_submit (https://shop.pingelonline.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit) and WAY easier, layout wise.

liquidracing
10-01-2008, 06:45 PM
so, as luck would have it....i will do a comprehensive write up on this ignition system. btw, accel p#140027 is a direct representation of subtle corporate espionage of the msd 8239, it's just cheaper, and made well after msd made theirs. accel was THE coil to put on any subie that was pre'87, save xt-6. i also was snooping around and found a bit of info about the diamond and hitachi. did a bit of quick comparison, and have since concuded this:
as long as your primary input impedance is greater than 1 ohm(that is like wire gauges, i.e.-#1 wire is bigger than #4 wire) so 1 ohm UP to 1/2ohm and your secondary impedance is more than 20K ohm(20,000ohm, no more than 10,000) AND, i repeat, AND has a voltage output of greater than 30,000v, you will be so good to go, you'll wonder why you waited. oh, and also, a set of dyna coils WILL work, although a 1ohm set is like gold in the cycle world. 1.5ohm dual set runs $180 shipped, new stock, however you would need a set that is compatible with a newer 4cyl bike, like the honda blackbird(cbr1100 dos equis), although that's not all you'd need, i just don't know what else yet. btw, that 1.1l engine puts out 165h.p. factory. so, that being said, do you think automakers are holding back? 'cause that bike(cbr110xx) also gets close to 40mpg if tuned correctly and does like 190mph t.s. downhill can see 200+! :shock: last i checked my engine that is twice the size pulls the same h.p. :-? wtf? yeah yeah, i know it pulls over 11000rpm, but, it still has valves, lifters, cam, yadayada, plus it's exceedingly reliable. i think we should be able to pull 10000rpm due to the direct opposing configuration of our engines. they're more stabile than any other engine design...think about it.

liquidracing
10-01-2008, 06:51 PM
track8, couldn't connect to your hyper, resubmit please so i can check it out. thanks, james

track8
10-01-2008, 07:40 PM
Apparently Pingle's website has time limits. All the link showed was that the Dyna coils are like $150.00. I couldn't tell if that was for a pair or each and I haven't bought a set since the late '80s, so I can't recall that way either. At any rate, an MSD unit is $73.00, http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... 13+115+500 (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400122+4294908110+4294890813+115+500)

Reason
10-01-2008, 09:46 PM
so, as luck would have it....i will do a comprehensive write up on this ignition system. btw, accel p#140027 is a direct representation of subtle corporate espionage of the msd 8239, it's just cheaper, and made well after msd made theirs. accel was THE coil to put on any subie that was pre'87, save xt-6. i also was snooping around and found a bit of info about the diamond and hitachi. did a bit of quick comparison, and have since concuded this:
as long as your primary input impedance is greater than 1 ohm(that is like wire gauges, i.e.-#1 wire is bigger than #4 wire) so 1 ohm UP to 1/2ohm and your secondary impedance is more than 20K ohm(20,000ohm, no more than 10,000) AND, i repeat, AND has a voltage output of greater than 30,000v, you will be so good to go, you'll wonder why you waited. oh, and also, a set of dyna coils WILL work, although a 1ohm set is like gold in the cycle world. 1.5ohm dual set runs $180 shipped, new stock, however you would need a set that is compatible with a newer 4cyl bike, like the honda blackbird(cbr1100 dos equis), although that's not all you'd need, i just don't know what else yet. btw, that 1.1l engine puts out 165h.p. factory. so, that being said, do you think automakers are holding back? 'cause that bike(cbr110xx) also gets close to 40mpg if tuned correctly and does like 190mph t.s. downhill can see 200+! :shock: last i checked my engine that is twice the size pulls the same h.p. :-? wtf? yeah yeah, i know it pulls over 11000rpm, but, it still has valves, lifters, cam, yadayada, plus it's exceedingly reliable. i think we should be able to pull 10000rpm due to the direct opposing configuration of our engines. they're more stabile than any other engine design...think about it.

That's good stuff, where can we get these dyna coils? I like to look into it more. And for comparing your car to a motor cycle is you actually have less HP. If you have a 2.5 NA you have around 105 WHP and 4 times the weight.

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 12:15 PM
the best places i've found to GET them are at denniskirk.com, and jcwhitney.com/motorcycle....you have to go to dyna's website for more r&d on the ohm load....as i said the 1ohm's are like gold. i've seen a couple over the years, but, don't know if they make 'em. i'm gonna e-mail my cycle supplier today to see if they're available in new stock trim, or if it was a limited run or custom set ups.

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 12:35 PM
track8:
yeah, i dig it. checked out summit's stuff. you can even have autozone order in msd for 75. i think that accel stock was at checker's main distrobution warehouse here in denver for like 65 or so. i think i'm actually goinh that route due to msd's higher price for custom wires. besides i don't like to mix&match competitor's products, i'm just anally ocd about asthetics and matching equipment! :grin: besides, i think blue and yellow is more asthetically pleasing than blue and red(too polar opposite, imo)

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 12:40 PM
here's my other thought: pulled from coates

CSRV Rotary Cylinderhead
Coates Spherical Rotary Valve Cylinderhead
• Low manufacturing cost
• Low maintenance cost
• Low noise
• Low parasitic power consumption
• High efficiency
• High volumetric efficiency
• Flexibility of gas motion control
• High torque/power density
• High efficiency in part load operation
• Low knock tendency
• Low engine height for flexible vehicle styling
• Low pollution emission
• Alternate fuel compatability
• Clean engine block and compartment
• No liquid lube in any part of rotary valve



APPLICABLE IN
• SI/CI Engines with 2 or 4 Stroke Design
• Small/Large, Single/Multi Cylinder Engine


A new spherical port-type rotary valve system is incorporated with conventional reciprocating engines by replacing the traditional noisy cumbersome high pumping-loss poppet valve-train.

The operation of this new economical valve package has been proven durable (in extended dynamometer and road tests) and shown to deliver many superior engine performance features.

The only moving element in the new mechanism is one set of rotating spherical valves per cylinder mated with respective floating ports whose sealing actions are linked to the cylinder pressure variation. This creative concept has become a proven engineering reality thanks to recent advancements in design and some new material technology.

Among the beauty of the new invention is no need for costly modification in the existing manufacturing line of the present engine block. It is truly an engine technological breakthrough which offers revolutionized performance and convenience.

Absence of poppet valves and other operating accessories normally housed under the valve cover has permitted elimination of both oil lubrication and cooling water flow in the upper portion of the cylinder head. This reduces the overall engine height by as much as 20 cm from that of its conventional counter part, and maintains a clean engine.

The new, patented simple valve-train unit has minimized the area of contact for fluid flow through the gas exchange ports by making use of wide-open circular cross-sections. This significantly cuts down the pumping loss and unmatchable increases the volumetric efficiency to achieve a high torque/power-density engine.

The new dynamically balanced rotating spherical port valve eliminates entirely mechanical noise produced by current poppet-valve components. Hissing sound generated as gas flow squeaks through the narrow annulus valve opening in the conventional cylinder head is no longer audible. At the same time, the new unit cuts down, by an order of magnitude, the need for power out of the crankshaft. Normally a big parasitic power drain is required in conventional engines to drive the valve train.

Performance & Excellence

SUMMARY
Many production engine blocks mounted with Coates rotary port-valve cylinder heads have been operated in the original host vehicles to implement extensive tests. For example, one of them has successfully been driven over 150,000 miles and shows many performance advantages. Some proven engine characteristics are listed below along with the best probable reasons for the observed results.

LOW MANUFACTURING COST:
• Far fewer parts in simple valve mechanism
• Simple cylinder head
• No costly change in manufacturing line of the existing engine block
• Shorter assembly time

LOW MAINTENANCE COST:
• Simple package to produce fewer troubles
• No oil in the cylinder head to burn or leak
• No liquid lubrication in any part of the rotary valve
• No cooling water in the upper portion of the split cylinder head

LOW NOISE:
• Absence of noisy reciprocating valve train smooths intake
• gas flows and no valve bounce

LOW PARASITIC POWER CONSUMPTION:
• Low pumping loss in gas exchange process
• Low power required for rotary valve operation

HIGH EFFICIENCY ENGINE:
• High critical compression ratio - No hot exhaust valve
• Low parasitic power consumption
• Low pumping loss

HIGH VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY:
• Fully opened circular valve ports
• Low-temperature intake port
• No back flow of residual gas
• No need for valve overlap

FLEXIBILITY OF GAS MOTION CONTROL:
• Near zero tradeoff problem between gas motions and volumetric efficiency
• Fully opened circular cross-sectional port|
• Staggered variable valve openings

HIGH TORQUE/POWER-DENSITY ENGINE:
• High volumetric efficiency
• Fewer parts in the engine and simple cylinder head
• High thermal efficiency
• High engine speed-dynamically stable rotating valve with no valve floating problem

HIGH EFFICIENCY IN PART-LOAD OPERATIONS:
Low pumping work
• Use less than 10% power to operate the poppet valve mechanism

LOW KNOCK TENDENCY:
• No high-temperature wall, e.g. exhaust poppet valve
• Low filling work to the intake charge

LOW POLLUTANT EMISSIONS POTENTIAL:
• No oil burned in the valve ports
• Absence of valve overlap
• Low-temperature cylinder head wall
• High exhaust gas temperature

CLEAN ENGINE BLOCK AND COMPARTMENT:
• No oil leakage from the valve cover
• No coolant leakage from the cylinder head/gasket
• No need for valve cover ventilation

FLEXIBILITY OF AUTO-BODY STYLING:
• Low overall height- Absence of valve cover
• No water jacket in upper portion of the cylinder head
• Compact and clean engine package

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/pic06-1.jpg

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 12:50 PM
NOW, i ask, WHY can't we have a 10,000+rpm engine....as i said, whatever the brain can conceive can become a reality..so here it is, the motor of choice. ej25d block(stock, slightly built with higher quality bearings and seals, prefferably forged con-rods{eagle?} and billet piston heads{ jp }, our soon-to-be modded ignition, sti fuel pump, rails, injectors, retaining all the n/a controls though. lastly, tuned dropping rev limiter, and punch up shift point to 9500rpm run mobile1, and on 87 octane, i would absolutely run for pinks and cash against anybody's sti/wrx, or anything sia comes up with in the next 5 years. literally the only thing that would touch you is a mid 80's 2d gl10 with an sti conversion and about 40in. boost. guaranteed!

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 12:59 PM
for your viewing pleasure
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/V8engine-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/pic02-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/components-1.jpg

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 01:09 PM
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg270/legacylsi/pic04.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/pic07-1.jpg

Huffer
10-02-2008, 01:20 PM
liquidracing - your last 3-4 posts don't seem to be relevant to the MSD coil modification.

You should start a new thread in the Technical sections if you want to discuss 10,000rpm engines.

liquidracing
10-02-2008, 04:40 PM
i know huffer, sorry 'bout that, i'll stop. i kinda ramble on in real life too. :grin:

back to the topic at hand:
i just got back from a quick r&d trip to checker auto and found niehoff p/n-AL174K is a stocked item, and comes with the pigtail terminal clip already in the coil input and cool enough, has a red slide-lock tab so the connector doesn't come out of the coil. it's $107.99. lastly, do not EVER buy msd from checker, their price is double for the 8239 from anywhere else, autozone can get that coil for $73.99. so, i was thinking that to make the system work to it's maximum potential, one should get(if going msd or accel) the ignitor and splice it in as well(msd p/n 6302)check it out- http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFile ... ctions.pdf (http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Accessories/6302_instructions.pdf). and, of course, accel does not make an ignitor, period. so, to have a match aftermarket set, go with msd.

Reason
10-02-2008, 08:13 PM
I sell the MSD coil and pigtail $95 shipped US and $105 shipped CND (I have to double check that price).

liquidracing
10-03-2008, 09:10 AM
I sell the MSD coil and pigtail $95 shipped US and $105 shipped CND (I have to double check that price).
yeah, reason that's more like it pricewise. that 140something is retarded! are you shure the msd comes with pigtail also?

Reason
10-03-2008, 09:30 AM
I have some I get from neons out of the local bone yards.

02legacygt
10-03-2008, 02:06 PM
wait i really need to read back, however you can run the neon coil pack in the legacy, wont this create a hotter spark! I know thats the point, but couldnt that cause problems if you dont have the wires and plugs to handle it!... like melting stuff! I see the neon has a high volt that our stock and the msd has a way higher, so is the neon pack better to run for someone with not the need for hotter spark or just go straight to the MSD!

i know when i had my neon i loved my MSD, however i have to get NGK iridium plugs, and 10mm wire to handle to spark, i also had to get and aftermarket grounding kit, to smooth the idle out after the upgrade

cause let me tell you the local pick and pull has a ba-gillion neons and they are 5$ ..... so whats the deal let me know!

rougeben83
10-03-2008, 02:29 PM
wait i really need to read back, however you can run the neon coil pack in the legacy, wont this create a hotter spark! I know thats the point, but couldnt that cause problems if you dont have the wires and plugs to handle it!... like melting stuff! I see the neon has a high volt that our stock and the msd has a way higher, so is the neon pack better to run for someone with not the need for hotter spark or just go straight to the MSD!

i know when i had my neon i loved my MSD, however i have to get NGK iridium plugs, and 10mm wire to handle to spark, i also had to get and aftermarket grounding kit, to smooth the idle out after the upgrade

cause let me tell you the local pick and pull has a ba-gillion neons and they are 5$ ..... so whats the deal let me know!

Dude, it won't plug and play in your Phase II ej25. Don't waste $100 like someone else with a BE did...

liquidracing
10-03-2008, 02:54 PM
rouge's right, but, i'm looking into the wiring this weekend for both the 3pin and 4pin setup, the answers actually not at the coil, but, rather at the ignitor. that's where i'm figuring i'll end after i reverse-engineer from the coil connector back into the harness. i'll know more by monday. :cool:


wait i really need to read back, however you can run the neon coil pack in the legacy, wont this create a hotter spark! I know thats the point, but couldnt that cause problems if you dont have the wires and plugs to handle it!... like melting stuff! I see the neon has a high volt that our stock and the msd has a way higher, so is the neon pack better to run for someone with not the need for hotter spark or just go straight to the MSD!

i know when i had my neon i loved my MSD, however i have to get NGK iridium plugs, and 10mm wire to handle to spark, i also had to get and aftermarket grounding kit, to smooth the idle out after the upgrade

cause let me tell you the local pick and pull has a ba-gillion neons and they are 5$ ..... so whats the deal let me know!

Dude, it won't plug and play in your Phase II ej25. Don't waste $100 like someone else with a BE did...

liquidracing
10-03-2008, 05:12 PM
btw, if you use 8.8mm of bigger wires, you'll be totally cool! they won't overheat due to voltage increase. it's the resistence in the smaller wires that "chokes" the flow and creates heat!

track8
10-03-2008, 05:53 PM
The voltage used won't increase unless the load in increased, like increasing the plug gap, higher cylinder pressure at the moment of ignition, stuff like that. The upgraded coil is CAPABLE of greater spark voltage but the amount of voltage required to jump the gap is what dictates actual output. This should help clear it up some. http://www.multitorch.de/Technicals/hau ... icals.html (http://www.multitorch.de/Technicals/hauptteil_technicals.html)

Don't fret the wires unless they are getting crappy anyway.

liquidracing
10-03-2008, 05:59 PM
+1 to ya track8.....that's a groovy little page there. some late night reading me thinks :cool:

The voltage used won't increase unless the load in increased, like increasing the plug gap, higher cylinder pressure at the moment of ignition, stuff like that. The upgraded coil is CAPABLE of greater spark voltage but the amount of voltage required to jump the gap is what dictates actual output. This should help clear it up some. http://www.multitorch.de/Technicals/hau ... icals.html (http://www.multitorch.de/Technicals/hauptteil_technicals.html)

Don't fret the wires unless they are getting crappy anyway.

liquidracing
10-07-2008, 04:09 PM
so, i was going to go with all MSD, and i will. for now though, i opted for a nice little neon coil. picked it up for 40 bucks with a connector. here is the low-down on the neon "upgrade"(three pin ONLY, haven't done foot work on four pin yet) :roll:

1)if you look at the two coils side-by-side, arranged with the connector to the left(just like if it were in the car, you at the front, looking at it, facing towrds the firewall), you will see the two "bumps" on the coil pack laying horizontally, with spark plug ports out either side. these are the individual "coils". there is a port in the middle on the left side, with 3 pins in it.

2)with these factors still inplace, walk around to the passenger-side of the car, staying at the front quarter-panel(driver's side for you east pond drivers). look at the connector port on the coil. you will see three pins. from RIGHT to LEFT, they are numbered 1, 2, 3, respectively, although there is no formal inscription of any kind on the connector, or port.

3)cut the connecter off your car between the snap and the coil pack, prefferably closer to the pack as i want you to throw it away when your done. :shock: remove coil and connector from your car.

4)take said connecter that you just cut, and lay it down next to the neon connecter. throw away the coil you cut the connector off, it's pretty much just a paperweight now. :cool:

ready for the fun part? :grin:

5)the connector diagrams are the same, EXACTLY! wiring-wise anyway. :lol:
yeah, it's that stupid simple!

6)looking at the pins, on the neon connector, they are read from LEFT to RIGHT:1, 2, and 3(the reason it's not the same as the port, is that it's a mirror image of the pins on the port)

7)looking at the pins on the subie connector, they are read from RIGHT to LEFT:1,2 and 3

8)pin 1 is for cyl numbers 1 and 2 :cool:

9)pin 2 is "12v signal in" :cool:

10)pin 3 is for cyl numbers 3 and 4 :cool:

11)literally take the neon connector and subie connector and connect the wires, number for number: 1 to 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3. now you have a universal connector/adapter to use on your msd, accel, or neon coil, without killing the wiring on your car, although the subie coil has to give it's life for this connector. :grin:

12)just plug into the neon coil and your off.

wow, this is sounding like a diy, but, is it? i mean, yes and no.

i hope that makes sense. i will have pictures, although now i'm broke 'till the 15th, so i can't buy any spark boots to convert my ngk's over to work on the coil. :evil:

p.s. the ignitor wires in just as easily........that msd igniter......p/n6302.....get it, you'll understand why once you decide to remove your rev limiter and possibly jump up your rpm's into the 8G+ range :twisted: , aside from the fact of having a stronger signal to the coil than the stock one produces anyway.

winston856
11-05-2008, 06:00 PM
PICS!!!!!!!!!

I have the flat pin msd coil and I just ordered the FX50 NGK Blue plug wires for a '99 2.5L so the ends will fit the male terminals (my stock setup is female).

I think I'm going to try it your way though as using the stock plug like that would be awesome so I don't have to cut up my cars wiring.

Pics would be good :smile:

anothernord
11-06-2008, 10:49 PM
I got hold of a really cheap coil from a friend; but now i need new plug wires. Would it be better to just buy brand new cables for the Phase II? Or just put new connectors on my existing wires?

Edit: Got some used plug wires from decke, everything works fine now.

jrg5066
08-17-2009, 01:24 AM
Great writeup Liquidracing btw. You have no idea how HOPELESLY lost i was be4 that.

I have the basic ej22e from a 95 legacy L. I dont have the 4 wire system, I dont have a year not applicable to this DIY. All I need is an ignition coil pack from a dodge neon and some plug wires correct?

I'm sorry It just got a little confusing with so many unapplicable makes and models chiming in.

Grafton
09-18-2009, 10:11 AM
anyone have pictures of both the phase one & phase two ej22 plug wires

Drakien
01-05-2010, 12:01 AM
phase 1-
http://img.drivewire.com/PRO-F/W01331622551NGK.JPG

phase 2-
http://img.drivewire.com/PRO-F/W01331628902PST.JPG

Drakien
01-05-2010, 08:18 PM
I went ahead and got a pick and pull special Neon Coil! I installed it, noticed a slight bit of low end power, and made my exhaust leak more prominent, but it made my exhaust overall louder.

kevbot
01-12-2010, 09:44 PM
anyone know if this will work on a JDM EJ25?

nomad666666
01-12-2010, 10:03 PM
If you keep your factory fuel management then yes. If you do a full swap engine computer and harness from jdm and it is a later model 1998 I think and later then no!

kevbot
01-19-2010, 06:23 PM
Ok so, does anyone know exactly which NGK wires to get to do this conversion on my phase I USDM ej25? Is it FX50, or FX58?

ben g
01-20-2010, 01:47 PM
Alright i am a bit confused on this write up... so buy a msd coilpackfor a neon hack wires. rewire according to writeup and then you need new spark plug wires or no? i have an ej25 usdm. Thanks ahead of time.

Soul Shinobi
01-20-2010, 11:39 PM
Just wanted to clear up some facts I did in the other MSD conversion topic. Referring to the coil packs as 'Phase I' and 'Phase II' is not correct, these terms refer to engine changes that happened independently from, and on a different time scale, than the change in coil pack design:

The following information applies to the US market:

Engines:
All Subaru 2.2L engines from 1990 to 1998 are Phase I. 1999 and later they are Phase II. Same goes for the 2.5L engines, EXCEPT the Legacy and Legacy Outback models get the Phase II 2.5L one year late for 2000; Impreza and Forester models got Phase II for 1999.

Coil Packs: (looking at Legacy parts)
2.2L from 1990 to 1996 use similar coil packs.
2.2L from 1997-1999 have a new coil pack, in 1999 the spark plug wires changed (I think the coil pack should be the same).
What I know on the 2.5L is based on the plug wires for sale by Subaru. 1996 is unique, 1997 is unique, 1998 and 1999 are the same, 2000-2004 are the same, and 2005-2006 are the same. It seems 1996 has the old coil pack and 1997-2006 have the newer terminal style. Correct me if I'm wrong. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11704&p=174093#p174093 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11704&p=174093#p174093)


EDIT: here's a helpful link for NGK plug wires, if you add what you need to the cart it'll show the NGK part number there if you want to use that to shop around: http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=938

Grafton
01-24-2010, 10:39 PM
phew, so all this time i've had what people are calling "phase II" wires might see if my favorite junk yard has a neon ....

Smithcraft
02-10-2010, 06:17 AM
I'm planning on doing this in a few weeks, and the one thing I'm not sure of is what plug wires to use.

From looking at Drivewire's Subaru plug wire section (http://www.drivewire.com/make/cat/spark-plug-wire-set/subaru/), it looks like the NGK FX61/7600 (http://www.drivewire.com/images/shop/prodimage/images/WORLDPAC/W01331794717NGK.JPG) set has the connections for the plugs that I need for my '94, and the coil connections that I would need for the MSD/Neon coil. Essentially the second picture that Drakien posted above. Is that right, or do I need a different set for my up coming project?

TIA!

SC

ps - Looking at the other link that Soul Shinobi posted it looks that it would be the FX61. Could someone please confirm that?

Drakien
03-09-2011, 07:20 PM
Just an FYI, this DOES work on the 1.8l Impreza.

And to answer your question, yes the 2nd picture is the one you need to match with. :cool:

J.McDonald Knives
03-12-2011, 01:44 PM
I just did a price check on both the 8229 and the 8239 and I found out the 8239 is actually cheaper. Heres a link from Oreilly Auto Parts. http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... ion&mc=MSD (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Ignition+Coil+-+Performance/2767P/C0334.oap?year=1996&make=Dodge&model=Neon&vi=1093957&mn=MSD+Ignition&mc=MSD)

Soul Shinobi
03-12-2011, 01:54 PM
I did a Google Shopping search and found the 8229 for $60. The pic on the site is wrong but the description is right, should e-mail them to confirm. http://www.autopartsdealer.com/msd_spor ... tent=rank1 (http://www.autopartsdealer.com/msd_sport_compact_replacement_coils-p407070-p.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=u75&utm_content=rank1)

J.McDonald Knives
03-23-2011, 04:14 PM
I'm going to be doing this conversion very soon since my coil is slowly going out. I have a very early 97BG which uses the 96 coil pack and wires. Instead of looking for a set of boots I had remembered that the 98BG plug wires have the correct ends for the MSD coil and stock ends for my plugs. Anyone see any problems with these plug wires? BTW I can get the MSD 8239 coil with a discount from Oreilly Auto Parts cause of my Del Mar College student ID and can get it for about $65 plus tax. :) Now I just need to find the connector for cheap and theres a 2002 Neon on CL as a part out. Just need to find out what he has in it still.

So from my understanding, you can mount the coil with the connector on the same side as our stock coil and just reverse a couple of wires. Also should I get the MSD igniter?

J.McDonald Knives
03-24-2011, 07:46 PM
Well I got the wire harness and ordered the wires and coil and they should be here by Saturday. End the school week with old coil and wires and start the week off with the conversion!!!

track8
03-25-2011, 07:25 PM
Now I just need to find the connector for cheap and theres a 2002 Neon on CL as a part out. Just need to find out what he has in it still.

So from my understanding, you can mount the coil with the connector on the same side as our stock coil and just reverse a couple of wires. Also should I get the MSD igniter?

In case you cannot find the connector used, the connector is available new @ NAPA: http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail ... 20+2020029 (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=ECHEC235_0164938998&An=599001+101999+50020+2020029) and probably any other place that sells Echlin products.

Yes, the coil can be clocked in either direction with just the corresponding switch of the 2 outer (trigger) wires.

I know of no one using the MSD igniter pack although it is much cheaper than any of the replacement ones out there. Not sure of the wiring aspect nor compatibility. It ain't quite plug 'n' play.

Don't let the hood scoop bolt bounce on your coil for too long! :smt013 Or at all really.

J.McDonald Knives
03-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Now I just need to find the connector for cheap and theres a 2002 Neon on CL as a part out. Just need to find out what he has in it still.

So from my understanding, you can mount the coil with the connector on the same side as our stock coil and just reverse a couple of wires. Also should I get the MSD igniter?

In case you cannot find the connector used, the connector is available new @ NAPA: http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail ... 20+2020029 (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=ECHEC235_0164938998&An=599001+101999+50020+2020029) and probably any other place that sells Echlin products.

Yes, the coil can be clocked in either direction with just the corresponding switch of the 2 outer (trigger) wires.

I know of no one using the MSD igniter pack although it is much cheaper than any of the replacement ones out there. Not sure of the wiring aspect nor compatibility. It ain't quite plug 'n' play.

Don't let the hood scoop bolt bounce on your coil for too long! :smt013 Or at all really.
Thanks. I got the connector for free from school since they had a Neon that was not working and they said I could get the part from it. Before I solder the two outside wires together I'm going to just wire tie them together and then try starting up the car and if it works then I will solder them together.

track8
03-25-2011, 11:15 PM
Cool, that'll work.

J.McDonald Knives
03-26-2011, 05:45 PM
Well its finished, cut off the factory harness to do it cause I don't plan to change it later cause the MSD coil is much cheaper than a stock Subaru coil for mine. Bolt size that worked for mine was M6 x 45mm. Since I went straight to the stock wiring harness the colors are as follows:

Subaru > MSD harness

Yellow > Green
Black > Black
Red > Blue
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/20110326140724-1.jpg

And the connector is on the same side as the stock coil. I also used the plug wires off of a 98 Legacy 2.5 and the boots were perfect for the MSD coil and the other ends were the exact same for my plugs since mines DOHC. So what do yall think? It did make my exhaust leak louder but when the sun starts going down more I'll be fixing that today, got new exhaust manifold gaskets and some copper coat. I figured I would give the wire colors for everyone whos going to do it like I did.

anothernord
03-26-2011, 05:55 PM
Nice. Also, OBX makes a coil pack similar to the MSD one, and it's a little cheaper. I've been running it for a couple years with no problems.

Soul Shinobi
03-26-2011, 05:57 PM
Thread pitch on the bolts?

J.McDonald Knives
03-26-2011, 06:00 PM
Thread pitch on the bolts?
M6-1.0x45mm is the bolt so the pitch is 1.0 but at the auto parts store thats all they come in but not sure at the hardware store.


Nice. Also, OBX makes a coil pack similar to the MSD one, and it's a little cheaper. I've been running it for a couple years with no problems.
You got a link to it and the specs?

Soul Shinobi
03-26-2011, 06:05 PM
What order are the wire colors in (say, left to right from the back of the plug in the installed position) in case we get a connector for a Neon coil pack?

J.McDonald Knives
03-26-2011, 06:12 PM
What order are the wire colors in (say, left to right from the back of the plug in the installed position) in case we get a connector for a Neon coil pack?
Mine was from the Neon. Thats what colors I posted. I said MSD instead of Neon tho. If you want to basically make an adapter plug like in the OP then just hook up the stock connector that you cut off your old coil and hook it up opposite of what the OP did and you will have the harness on the stock side.

J.McDonald Knives
03-27-2011, 06:34 AM
If anyone wishes to decode the wire colors to go from the stock ignitor to the MSD 6302 Ignitor, here are the wiring diagrams. PIN 18 is a ground. If anyone can figure this out we would appreciate it. Here is the link to the .rar

http://jmcdonaldknives.com/Files/Subaru_Legacy_Ignition_Wiring_Diagrams.rar

J.McDonald Knives
04-21-2011, 11:29 PM
Bump to see if anyone can figure out the wiring for the ignitor. I plan to do the mod during the fall.

littlehadsell
06-03-2011, 10:23 AM
most def goig to do this, whts the best wires and plugs to go along with the MSD coilpack?

J.McDonald Knives
06-03-2011, 11:22 AM
most def goig to do this, whts the best wires and plugs to go along with the MSD coilpack?
Best wires are Magnecor. For plugs I just stick to OEM.

Soul Shinobi
06-08-2011, 04:20 AM
What's the part number on the Magnecor plug wire set? I guess there'd be a couple depending if the coil pack is centered on the engine or off to one side like on the newer cars...

J.McDonald Knives
06-08-2011, 10:05 AM
What's the part number on the Magnecor plug wire set? I guess there'd be a couple depending if the coil pack is centered on the engine or off to one side like on the newer cars...
If you got DOHC just call up Boxer4Racing and tell Dale that you need Magnecor wires for a 98 Legacy. Not sure what year the SOHC wires were for but I guess that you got the DOHC engine. But if you have the SOHC motor just tell him what you got and he will tell you what wires will work.

Soul Shinobi
06-08-2011, 03:10 PM
I actually found some info on Magnecor part numbers. Oh wait, I actually found their catalog! (http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/Magnecor252520Parts252520Subaru-1.jpg

So I'm guessing the different part numbers (despite similar coil packs) account for different wire lengths and plug-side boot ends (and how they meet up with the valve cover).

Reason
06-08-2011, 03:40 PM
I can beat their magnecore prices at that website. Fyi

J.McDonald Knives
06-08-2011, 10:11 PM
Well I have a 97 which used a 96 coil from the factory and had female terminals on the coil but when I switched to the MSD coil I had to buy wires for a 98 Legacy because the boots on the coil side were female cause the MSD coil has male terminals but they are an exact match as far as the boots go.

Soul Shinobi
06-08-2011, 11:57 PM
So you want 45339 I think and I want 45277 for my '98 2.2L.

Soul Shinobi
06-09-2011, 04:28 AM
Bump to see if anyone can figure out the wiring for the ignitor. I plan to do the mod during the fall.
Have you checked this out?

http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFile ... ctions.pdf (http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8239_instructions.pdf)

It's MSD's install instruction for the coil (8239), including wiring in other things I don't understand. Just sounded like what you were looking for. :razz:

J.McDonald Knives
06-09-2011, 08:49 AM
[quote="J.McDonald Knives":29ghdnvi]Bump to see if anyone can figure out the wiring for the ignitor. I plan to do the mod during the fall.
Have you checked this out?

http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFile ... ctions.pdf (http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8239_instructions.pdf)

It's MSD's install instruction for the coil (8239), including wiring in other things I don't understand. Just sounded like what you were looking for. :razz:[/quote:29ghdnvi]
If you look a little further up I have included a .rar file that has the wiring schematic for the MSD coil as well as the Subaru wiring schematic. All else fails I can talk to one of my instructors at school and have them help me figure it out. Fall semester is starting on Aug 29th.

TahoeLegaSTi
10-19-2013, 03:06 PM
Bumped for Future reference