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View Full Version : 99 2.5GT Mod ideas?



Svenerachi1
07-18-2005, 06:51 PM
Hey guys, I'm a newbie subie driver. I've got a 1999 Legacy 2.5GT,
Only thing i've done to it is a K&N panel filter, plan on doing a snorklectomy as soon as i get some extra time.

Question 1: are those cheap fuses that change the intake temperature reading dangerous to the engine?
I had it in for about 2000 miles, then started having problems with overheating and such, and found that i had the famous pinhole in the headgasket problem, and haven't put it back in yet.

Question 2: With a new pulley set, do the increases in power justify a 350 dollar 3-piece kit from GFB, or should I be satisfied with a lightened crank pulley for 50 bucks

Question 3: Does anyone know of any noticable difference with a lower temperature(170?) thermostat, or is this like the grounding kits and voltage stabilizers in that they do create more power, but only in engines pushing 500hp?

Question 4: Any suggestions on any other CHEAP mods?

Wiscon_Mark
07-18-2005, 11:30 PM
to answer question 1: Yes, they're bad for the car, TAKE IT OFF QUICKLY! i'm not gonna flame you for using it (others may, just ignore them) but please, for the sake of your engine, take it off.

question 2: check out rallitek....I don't know about a 50 dollar lightened crank pulley. Is it underdriven? Because if it is, then you need new belts, or you're gonna screw things up. If it isn't, it may be a steal, or, more likely, a piece of junk. Check out rallitek (vendor links) and look at the Perrin crankshaft pulley. I think its 120 bucks. the 350 set? never seen it, bet gator could help you out there though, he may know something about it. Just remeber, NO underdriven pulleys unless you're getting shorter belts to match.

question 3: a lower temperature thermostat? Is it like a chip to fool the engine into thinking its at an optimum temp.?? (like in question 1). I don't know the answer to that one, sorry.

question 4: here's a couple of threads on the subject
http://www.4agtoys.com/SUBARULEGACY/viewtopic.php?t=351
http://www.4agtoys.com/SUBARULEGACY/viewtopic.php?t=173 (this is when I was a n00b! :lol: )

And check out the DIY threads...lotsa good stuff there.
Hope I've been a help. Welcome to the boards!

Svenerachi1
07-19-2005, 12:07 AM
ok, a lil about me: I'm a 21 year old kid that loves cars, but i don't even know how to do my own oil change. thats why i ask you all before i screw things up.

thanks about the chip, i'll just throw it away, but how is it bad for the car just out of curiosity? I like to understand things like this, helps me to understand how my engine works and what will and won't hurt it.

Anyway, no the pulley is not underdriven, I'm getting it from a vendor I met on ebay.

The thermostat i saw first at crucial racing, there are a few places that have them, no its not a chip or anything like that, from what i understand the way a thermostat works is that it waits untill the heat(pressure) builds up enough force to push the spring loaded valve(the thermostat) into the open position which unrestricts the flow of coolant. only reason you want to even have a thermostat is in order to get the engine to operating temperature as quickly as possible.

The reason given by the 162 degree crucial racing thermostat is that if the engine is operating at a lower temperature, you are producing more power. I don't take them for their word on that, so I'm asking ya'll about it.
Also, it says that in an event of an overheat, unlike a stock thermostat, this thermostat will lock into an open position to help with engine coolant flow, and something else i don't remember that it does to help keep from blowing your engine in the event of an overheat, and as famous as the EJ25 is for head gasket leaks/overheating/cylinder cracks or whatever it is exactly that cost me 4000 dollars to repair at Subaru of Sarasota, FL, i thought it a good investment considering it was something like $74-60 depending on what site you found it on

Wiscon_Mark
07-19-2005, 12:20 AM
well..the chip? Resell it on Ebay...who cares what sucker gets it? They should do research and figure out that its bad for the car.
why is it bad for the car? Because it puts waaaay too much fuel into the engine (a rich mixture, which probably doesn't do much for performance) compared to the air in there. This results in severe overheating (like you said you were experiencing) and that can ruin the engine eventually. I'd suggest you change that oil and make sure the coolant is ok right away if you've been doing this a while.

well, go for that pulley. Nice Find :smt023

The thermostat? Nah, waste of money. Subaru designed their engines to work most efficiently at a certain temperature. Lowering this temp would only hurt performance. The only place you should really worry about keeping cooler than the original design is the intake. And you've already got a K&N and are planning on doing a snorkusectomy, so you're heading the right way.
If you experience overheating, turn off your A/C, (don't stop right away, it'll ruin the pupose of the radiator) roll down the windows, slow down a little, and stop and check your coolant. You should be fine. boxer engines are tough....as for changing the oil...its super easy on a subaru. find someone who knows how to and have them point out all the stuff for you, supervise you while you do an oil change, and you should be able to figure it out real easy. you don't need to jack the car up to do it on a subaru.

Wiscon_Mark
07-19-2005, 12:25 AM
well..the chip? Resell it on Ebay...who cares what sucker gets it? They should do research and figure out that its bad for the car.

Haha! I just realized I was insulting you. Sorry about that :(

wow, these posts are some of the longest SLi has ever seen! :shock:

Svenerachi1
07-19-2005, 12:48 AM
thanks for the help man, and no i'm not having any problems with overheating, had that notorious head gasket problem but its tougher now than ever.
I haven't used the chip for about 30K miles, and don't worry about the insult, i did my research, i simply researched a bunch of BS. don't worry about hurting my feelings, its refreshing from the pampering conman attitude where everything is yes sir

Reason
07-19-2005, 01:20 AM
This same question is asked by every nOOb who joins. Get springs, struts and upgrade your brakes. Then modify your intake and get exhaust work. Then worry about pulleys cams blah blah blah etc etcetc.

subieyacht
07-19-2005, 11:54 PM
http://www.boxer4racing.com
http://www.racingbrake.com
that should keep you dreaming for a while :lol:

Disturbed_beast
07-20-2005, 02:32 AM
I had some of the same problems
- blow headgasket
- bad lifters
- bad transmission/differential
- Lecky pump
- a few other problems

I ended up doing a WRX engine swap 2.5 engines known to have headgasket blow, and i had meany other problems so that's what i did

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/420000-420999/420721_268_full.jpg

scottzg
07-20-2005, 03:55 PM
I think you should leave your car completely stock. Here's why:

the resistor that you put in leans (not richens, as was said) your fuel mixture. The ecu will eventually learn around this by referencing the 02 sensor, but in the mean time you are increasing your chances of knocking, which is hard on the engine and will make the ecu retard timing, which will hamper performance more than any gain from running lean. Oh, and running lean makes your engine run hotter.

The non-crank pullies all service on-demand accessories. The alternator will just put more load on the smaller pulley, and the a/c will cycle on more (the pump doesnt run all the time, it switches on and off) you might pick up some power from the power steering pump, but do you want to swerve at low engine speeds and run out of power steering? I don't.

The crank pulley is also a vibration damper, and whether or not it protects the engine, on the other side of the engine is a 18lb (or whatever weight it is) flywheel. Which one is going to give you better results by lightening?

The engine is tuned to run at a certain temperature.

The K&N flows better, but since the stock filter isn't a restriction, who cares? I'll take a stock filter that filters better, thank you. We have the same airbox as the 300zx.

The snorkus is tuned into the intake. You know how you can have ripples in a bathtub that will travel back and forth? Think of your snorkus as something that makes the wave hit the engine right when the intake valve opens. It's tuned to resonate at peak torque.


There is so much you can do to make the car faster by fiddling with the suspension, messing with the engine to glean 4 horse really seems pretty stupid to me. I have a bone stock 2.2 powertrain and quite a bit of suspension work, and i couldnt be happier.

Tris_STi
07-20-2005, 04:33 PM
Werd. I've driven Scott's car, and it made me want to get the very same setup.. it's quite fun to drive. drunk. *giggle*

The Crucial Racing Thermostat of which you speak isn't a bad mod, per se. I don't agree with the guys here when they say the engine is tuned to run at a certain temp.. running cooler is always better. You can't deny that. Of course, there's a cut-off point, but running a t-stat that opens at ~165 instead of 170 or whatever has its benefits.

I would wager the $350 Go Fast Bits pulley would be a great mod. You get what you pay for, so think of what that extra $300 goes into, as far as engineering and such. It also contributes a nickel or so to the poor little SE Asian kid who manufactures it all day long, instead of attending 1st grade with the rest of his village friends. He still can't read.
[/OT]

Oh, what else..? Meh, I'll think of it later. The gang's kinda on-par.. they won't steer you wrong.

scottzg
07-20-2005, 06:38 PM
the colder thermostat will net you worse mileage, cold doesn't encourage combustion. Going too cold will prevent the ecu from running closed loop, and mileage will get significantly worse. Ususally colder tstats are installed on cars that have had the engine management altered to run with one. The colder engine allows the tuner to run more timing advance. A side issue that probably isn't nearly as important is that the engine swells as it gets hotter, so it won't wear the same as it did before you installed the thermostat.

I maintain my disagreement with tris on the pullies, there are just better places to spend your money. If you want to lighten the drivetrain with your 350$, go for a light weight flywheel, but even that won't provide nearly as much joy as some agx struts, that will also run the same price.

Tokio
07-20-2005, 08:52 PM
the colder thermostat will net you worse mileage, cold doesn't encourage combustion. Going too cold will prevent the ecu from running closed loop, and mileage will get significantly worse. Ususally colder tstats are installed on cars that have had the engine management altered to run with one. The colder engine allows the tuner to run more timing advance. A side issue that probably isn't nearly as important is that the engine swells as it gets hotter, so it won't wear the same as it did before you installed the thermostat.

mr. T was right, crack is bad...

*e-d-i-t*
firstly: you dont know your *e-d-i-t*. custom/low-temp thermos do not have the effect you think on ANY ej25.
a. worse mileage?! marginally true... hardly noticeable... there are no awe-inspiring gains in fuel consumption... *e-d-i-t*
b.going too cold will keep the ecu from running in a closed-loop? do you even know what function the open-loop (let alone the closed- loop) cycle plays? it may take another minute or two AT THE MAX... but in no way, NO WAY, will any thermo, even the lack of a thermo all together, will keep the ecu from running the closed-loop program.
c. lol, low-temp thermos will keep an engine from swelling, lmao, youre really grasping at straws, right? *e-d-i-t*

custom/low-temp thermos are definitely an under-rated mod. they help you by-pass the EGR (something you *e-d-i-t* know seemingly nothing about) and add a bit more "umph" to the overall feel of your ride, AS LONG AS YOUR RIDE IS A MANUAL, autos suck, as usual.

*e-d-i-t*

Pwise2326
07-20-2005, 10:28 PM
Alright....before this explodes as a war of egos...first Jesse edit your post and clean it up. Second, advice is advice, everyone has an opinion, everyone here should respect everyones opinion, and be at least somewhat polite when questioning and responding with your own opinions. Thirdly leave all the attitudes and egos over on Nasioc and legacy central. This place isn't about egos or "my word is the right word" because you've been a member at legacy central for years. If you have information and knowledge, by all means post it up, but don't belittle in the process. We are all here because we love Legacy's, not because we like to "hear" ourselves "talk". Just remember that information you may have read on other forums may not be 100% correct --- "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see" -- even books can be wrong. The point is you need to read and absorb info with an open mind, everything said on this forum should be used as a reference or a general guide, nothing set in stone. We aren't all 20 year veteren Subaru Mechanics where we've been working on them since their conception.

Long story short, this argument ends now, nothing is going to be deleted -- we've been over that already. Just man up and be respectful of each other, thats all we ask at SLI, if you need to be reminded, read the first thread Jeremy posted entitled "READ THIS FIRST".

And no Jesse this isn't me stroking my admin ego and abusing my "power", this is to keep you all from looking like asses fighting on the internet. Anyone with common sense and a good head on their shoulders would agree.

scottzg
07-20-2005, 10:34 PM
who lit the fire in your britches?

If im wrong about something, you could simply say why, rather than launching a personal attack on me. What did you hope to accomplish?

I know about the thermostat stuff because it's a common trick on mitsu starions, i had one in mine when i got it, and it wouldn't go to closed loop. As a result, the car was getting piss poor mileage. Turned out that the thermostat was 20 degrees too cool and was preventing it. The rest of what i said i learned because i looked in to it after the tstat was replaced.
Having a cooler temp thermostat won't affect warm up time, it affects how hot the coolant has to be before the thermostat opens. Of course the colder tstat you get the greater effects you will have.

I make no mention of egr because i dont have one in my subaru.

Svenerachi1
07-21-2005, 12:44 AM
Okay, how little i know about engines is about to show itself....
a flywheel is only on manual transmissions, correct?

Tokio
07-21-2005, 10:00 AM
lol

Svenerachi1
07-21-2005, 01:17 PM
okay, so is there any way to increase the performance of an automatic transmission?

and don't get me wrong guys, i'm not interested only in engine modifications, but this isn't the right forum for all that, and besides, much more info available about suspension upgrades than engine upgrades

Also, someone told me that without some serious engine management that a standalone unit, like the Apex-i SAFC would actually hinder the performance of a stock EJ25 Longblock.
Note: Mechanic at SOA told me this, so i don't put much stock in what he's sayin, they weren't right about anything I ever took to them before.

Tokio
07-21-2005, 01:31 PM
lol

scottzg
07-21-2005, 02:41 PM
tranny website is www.levelten.com (http://www.levelten.com) but if you're going through the expense and time, might as well swap in a manual. A tranny cooler is a great idea though.

imo, a lsd isn't necesary until you've broken the 220 hp mark. Until then, the car just doesn't have the traction to warrant it, and it will encourage understeer on corner entry.

LOWER resistance wires. There isn't much to gain here though without other ignition system upgrades.

Tokio
07-21-2005, 06:26 PM
lower resistance wires=easier spark from plug=crappier spark=less fuel burned in combustion

HIGHER/MORE resistance wires+slightly larger plug gap=harder time for plug=bigger spark=more fuel burned=smoother engine=better performance=automechanics 101.

scottzg
07-21-2005, 09:07 PM
:shock:


low resistance results in less loss in spark energy so more reaches the spark plug.

the less electricity reaching the plug the less spark the plug can produce.

Tokio
07-22-2005, 10:04 AM
less electricity?! sweet jesus man!

its starting to get real old... from now on im just gonna say:

"take whatever he said and reverse it."

...there isnt any lack of electricity...just a larger buildup before the spark...a.k.a. bigger spark...(keep in mind that the "higher resistance" i was talking about is the high end of what subaru recommends for our cars; crazy resistance--a la infinity-- would be a bad thing)

for the life of me, i cant see what the hell MSD is talking about. i believe Nology wires can get away with less resistance because they feature capacitors...but MSD... thats just crazy!

try buying some "high perfomance" wires that feature lower resistance @ a crappy place like wal-mart (just so theyre cheap, as you wont be keeping them)... and test this for yourself.

the man i learned automechanics from is an VERY distinguished racer, and this is among the first things we do to his cars that we race, or cars that come in the shop for repair. low resistance wires just plain suck.

scottzg
07-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Your premise for the resistance is wrong. The resistance is to filter electromagnetic interference so your em runs correctly.


try buying some "high perfomance" wires that feature lower resistance @ a crappy place like wal-mart (just so theyre cheap, as you wont be keeping them)... and test this for yourself.

agreed.

phi11
07-22-2005, 03:18 PM
starions are cool!

Tokio
07-22-2005, 08:55 PM
Your premise for the resistance is wrong. The resistance is to filter electromagnetic interference so your em runs correctly.

i see you read the MSD site thoroughly... so sad.

i talked it over with some other mechanics...(lmao)...and we have come to the agreement that the "low-resistance" wires are some kind of marketing gimmick aimed at the ignorant car-enthusiast (a la you).

i looked at alot of other sites that offer the same garbage. amazing.

since i am done arguing my point...do me a favor, take your own advice...or in other words, prove me wrong.

scottzg
07-22-2005, 09:39 PM
You're right. I have no idea what i was talking about.

you win.

Pwise2326
07-22-2005, 10:21 PM
Wow you guys amaze me, Scott, I think you should give yourself a little intro so we see where you are coming from with your info, just a little background in the intro section if you already havent, I'd step in and give you girls a time out, but that'd be overstepping my admin responsibilities. Glad to see at least one of you give up for the sake of giving up. Scott -- the rest of us in this community (besides tris) won't call you straight out like Jesse, so don't let him spoil your opinions of the site. Back to topic, I just picked up a set of Magnacore wires from Boxer4racing.com, this is what it says on the box in regards to resistance:

"Magnacore Ignition Cable conductors are specifically designed and constructed to provide both EMI (electro magnetic interference) and RFI (radio frequency interference) supression, even for vehicles fitted with exhaust emission controls and ultra-sensitive high-powered stereo systems. The use of Magnecor High Performance Ignition Cables on street engines, and, in particular, the use of Magnecor KV85 and R-100 Ignition Cables on full race (or street) engines will eliminate all serious EMI and other problems associated with high-output ignitions and other spark plug wires described as having low-resistance "mag, pro, spiral, monel, heli, energy, twin core, super" conductors etc. and so-called "capacitor" wires fitted with grounded braided metal shields."

continued:

"The ignition wire set enclosed is designed and constructed to provide a full race engine with the FULL OUTPUT from the ignition system, as well as suppression for EMI and RFI (also needed by production engines). This feature also benefits your production or modified street engine, as the full output from your vehicle's ignition system will always be available to the engine."

Long story short, these wires mention a little of what Jesse was saying and a little of what Scott was saying, so together and blended a little bit you both are right.

scottzg
07-22-2005, 10:50 PM
Scott, I think you should give yourself a little intro so we see where you are coming from with your info, just a little background in the intro section if you already havent,

http://4agtoys.com/SUBARULEGACY/viewtopic.php?t=744

believe me, i had no intention of creating such a stir.

Did you want me to include a bio about myself? I didn't really think that was necessary...

Pwise2326
07-22-2005, 11:00 PM
Not so much a bio but maybe a background of your subaru experience, ie, say if you happened to have been a Subaru Mechanic or in the auto business for however many years, which could give your statements some credibility over "this is what I heard over at Legacy Central...", that kinda thing. Regardless, you aren't making the fuss, and I'm glad to see you being the bigger man so to speak. Just ignore Jesse, I think he has turrets or something.

Reason
07-23-2005, 08:34 AM
Just ignore Jesse, I think he has turrets or something.

lol as I would love to comment on that, Jesse and myself resolved our spat. So I will sit here till prevoked. :twisted:

Tokio
07-23-2005, 11:40 AM
lol...turrets?

battleships have turrets...

missile systems have turrets....

OH! you mean TOURETTES...

lol...I WISH i had tourettes...life would be so much spicier!

Wiscon_Mark
07-23-2005, 06:40 PM
lol...turrets?

battleships have turrets...

missile systems have turrets....

OH! you mean TOURETTES...

lol...I WISH i had tourettes...life would be so much spicier!


That's what I was thinking.... :smt043