Phenolic Thermal Intake Manifold Spacers

[warrior]

My friend and I were discussing some methods on how to keep air cool that's flowing into the engine. Yes, one way is a cold air intake but that's only the first step.

Since our intake sits directly on top of the engine, the heat generated by the heads transfers onto the intake which thus heats up the cold air before it enters the combustion chamber.

In my eyes, a cold air intake is kind of pointless with our setup as the air is heated regardless. Now, upon further discussion, we found out about these phenolic thermal intake manifold spacers..

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/06/CNCSpacerIntakePortMatched-1.jpg

Does anyone know any technical information regarding this and if anyone makes one for our vehicles?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GrimmSpe ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GrimmSpeed-Subaru-Phenolic-Spacers_W0QQitemZ230141837294QQihZ013QQcategoryZ33551QQcmdZViewItem)

[warrior]

Ok, so did some more research.

www.grimmspeed.com (http://www.grimmspeed.com) is the only company that makes phenolic spacers for Subarus and they just started in March 2007 in fact. I emailed him asking if they would make them for our BD's and RS's.

A few guys on Nasioc have installed them on their 02-07 WRX/STI and have dropped the intake manifold temp by at least 10°F and some have dropped it by 30°F and even 50°F at idling.

Now, that's a cold air intake!

[warrior]

Update: Just got a response from Justin at Grimmspeed and he mentioned they are in the process of making them for all Subarus 93-07!

I'm definitely going to jump on this.. anyone else??

[redlegacygt]

id prob. be on it although id have to see some results from others. haha

[Huffer]

I'm pretty skeptical about the thermal properties - the intake sits right on the engine, so the air SURROUNDING the intake is going to be hot anyway... It just doesn't make sense in terms of dollars for me.

[MoclovFlop]

They actually are NOT the only one's making them. Hondata and PX3 sells some for the WRX which are actually a direct fit for some other Subaru's (including Phase 2 2.5).

There are a whole mess of threads about them over at RS25.com, and those spacers are actually my second-to-next thing to get since I just did the throttle body bypass mod in addition to my CAI (cooler and cooler....).

PX3.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-05-Su ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-05-Subaru-WRX-EJ20-turbo-2-Pc-PX3-Intake-Gasket_W0QQitemZ330132372658QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33668QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

hondata's spacers.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hondata- ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hondata-Gasket-Intake-Manifold-Gasket-Subaru-WRX-STI_W0QQitemZ300082774620QQihZ020QQcategoryZ36474QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

EDIT: I know neither of those link I provided specifically say the are phenolic, however phenolic is simply just a type of heat-dispersing/ blocking material, which those links mention their product does, so I'd assume they are phenolic or a material very, very close to it.

[MoclovFlop]

Some discussion here....

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.p ... t=Phenolic (http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54135&highlight=Phenolic)

[deadlydave]

I'm pretty skeptical about the thermal properties - the intake sits right on the engine, so the air SURROUNDING the intake is going to be hot anyway... It just doesn't make sense in terms of dollars for me.

Good point. Perhaps combining the spacers with thermal wrap around the intake piping would cut down on this.

[MoclovFlop]

Good point. Perhaps combining the spacers with thermal wrap around the intake piping would cut down on this.

That might work, however you have to remember that thermal wrap works the other way around too, keeping in any heat that does make it to the intake manifold.

[Reason]

I must have missed this thread. My friend and I did this on his 02 Maxima last month. 2 for both sides the sit on top of the head, 1 that split the intake manifold, another one in the intake track and 1 last one for the TB. We also slapped on a larger MAF sensor and went to the dyno that weekend. He;s at 248 whp, about 10 hp 12 tq from his last run. I would get these myself if the are available. They may not be supper affect but in conjunction with other mods it would be a nice addition.

[deadlydave]

That might work, however you have to remember that thermal wrap works the other way around too, keeping in any heat that does make it to the intake manifold.

Oh poop. Guess the best solution would be to throw practicality to the wind and get a mesh hood.

[MoclovFlop]

Pshh, who needs a hood, period! Ultra cooling, weight saving, AND adds front-end style points!

[Sarra]

Hoods also fend against rust, no? Plus, they keep idiots from walking up and removing things, like say, an alternator, from your car.

[warrior]

They actually are NOT the only one's making them. Hondata and PX3 sells some for the WRX which are actually a direct fit for some other Subaru's (including Phase 2 2.5).

There are a whole mess of threads about them over at RS25.com, and those spacers are actually my second-to-next thing to get since I just did the throttle body bypass mod in addition to my CAI (cooler and cooler....).

PX3.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-05-Su ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-05-Subaru-WRX-EJ20-turbo-2-Pc-PX3-Intake-Gasket_W0QQitemZ330132372658QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33668QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

hondata's spacers.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hondata- ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hondata-Gasket-Intake-Manifold-Gasket-Subaru-WRX-STI_W0QQitemZ300082774620QQihZ020QQcategoryZ36474QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

EDIT: I know neither of those link I provided specifically say the are phenolic, however phenolic is simply just a type of heat-dispersing/ blocking material, which those links mention their product does, so I'd assume they are phenolic or a material very, very close to it.

I wouldn't trust either one of those because they just look like plastic spacers. This does increase your plenum size and air volume so you should see better performance.

Grimmspeed is a strictly Subaru guy and I've spoken with him via email and his spacers are truly phenolic. It's like would you buy something that looks like carbon fiber or is carbon fiber.

The WRX/STI ones sell for about $60.00 which isn't a lot in my books for a great addition.

Here's some talk regarding Grimmspeed spacers on Nasioc:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ic+spacers (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260571&highlight=phenolic+spacers)

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/phenolic_spacer_1.jpg

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/phenolic_spacer_2.jpg

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/phenolic_spacer_3.jpg

[Reason]

Anyway is anybody interested in these? I talked to the guy about a group buy and he said sure. I'm waiting for an email with more details. I may just make them a vendor, because they do PnP ceramic coating and other heat treatments.

[warrior]

Anyway is anybody interested in these? I talked to the guy about a group buy and he said sure. I'm waiting for an email with more details. I may just make them a vendor, because they do PnP ceramic coating and other heat treatments.

I'm interested, count me in :cool:

[Svenerachi]

i'm in

[StatGSR]

yea grimmspeed has em for the wrx guys, no na ones yet. i know justin personally, hes a good guy, show him enough interest and he will most likly make em. hes not producing a lot of anything yet, but his response from what he has done on nabisco is pretty much amazing.

yes they work, in simple terms they stop/slow down heat transfer from the engine to the IM. with the IM cooler less heat is transfered to the air as it passes through it.

as for hondata. those are very popular in the honda world and should work well. hondata is a very reputable company.

[Sarra]

Depending on how much, I'll be in too.

[Reason]

Yes Justin will make them for us. He said $64.99 a set. If we get 20 people in a GB we can get them for $49.99. I give him a cross reference list of Legacy and Impreza engines so we are heading the right direction.

[tekkitan]

so no love for the NA folk? if that changes, I'd definitely be in on a group buy

[Reason]

so no love for the NA folk? if that changes, I'd definitely be in on a group buy

What?? Most of us are NA folk https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=6427

[tekkitan]

so no love for the NA folk? if that changes, I'd definitely be in on a group buy

What?? Most of us are NA folk https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=6427

one of the posts here made me think it was for turbo applications only :)

thanks.

[Svenerachi]

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/subar ... temps.html (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/subaru-tech/401816-yet-another-way-cool-your-intake-temps.html)

might want to check this out, WTFchuck just got shipped over to Iraq (he's in the military) and was stationed here at MacDill Airforce Base. additionally he is one of the more knowledgable people that I am aware of when it comes to subarus.

I'm going to with-hold judgement untill someone gets them and does a true 3rd party review, just wanted to share the info

[Huffer]

An intake needs to be made of a material that will draw heat away from the air intake charge... heat is caused by fast moving molecules, or ambient temperature, so the coldest air intake is either something artifically cooled, or a really slow moving air intake.

My physics class was a long time ago...

[Reason]

It slows down the heat up process yes. We drove about 20 mins before we installed these on his Maxima. I couldn't leave my hand on the intake manifold. We drove about 40 mins to the dyno (with them installed) and I can leave my hand on the intake manifold no problem. That is my experience with them, anyone that "heard" things or seen a guy pop popcorn on his intake mani is useless info.

[backpack09]

My physics class was a long time ago...

Thats thermodynamics :)

[Huffer]

^^ lol

Thanks for the correction!

[StatGSR]

An intake needs to be made of a material that will draw heat away from the air intake charge...


yea thats not guna happen, the IM is basicly a heat sink for the the motor. the point of the spacers is to act as a heat barrier so the IM doesnt absorb the heat.

the heat is going to get absorbed into the air from the IM no matter how much the air has been cooled or not.

[Piddster]

The spacers do look nice, as I've seen them in person. Grimm is a good guy and lets me use his shop whenever I need, mainly to use fobia's TIG welder. He includes gaskets, IIRC.


For the price, they are a nice addition. There are other ways to cool your inlets temps, depending on your setup. Personally I need fender liners so I can build a cold air setup...

[2.5GT]

So would you have to use 2 intake seals? 1 meshed with the spacer/Intake manifold, the other w/ spacer and head?

[Reason]

So would you have to use 2 intake seals? 1 meshed with the spacer/Intake manifold, the other w/ spacer and head?

That's what I plan on doing. If the surface on your heads isnt great I would. We used RTV on my friends Maxima.

[2.5GT]

So would you have to use 2 intake seals? 1 meshed with the spacer/Intake manifold, the other w/ spacer and head?

That's what I plan on doing. If the surface on your heads isnt great I would. We used RTV on my friends Maxima.

RTV on the head or on the spacer/intake?

I might as well ditch out couple dollars for some seals then.

[Reason]

We used it on both sides of the spacer. I plan on using 4 gaskets, 2 on each side with the spacer between.

[Jedi Taxi]

holy shit! that makes sense! DUN DUN DUUUN

[GrimmSpeed]

couple things i'd like to add

if you were to coat an intake manifold the ultimate situation would be to put thermal dispersant on the top and thermal barrier on the bottom. i have done this on a oneoff and it worked great...very time consuming but it worked. also, on my current project car(96 L) i will be doing this and somehow adding a thermo-tec heat blanket inbetween the bottom of the intake mani and on top of the block. imo, this is the ultimate setup for not letting the engine heat get to the intake mani. ohh...and of course there will be phenolic spacers in between the mani and heads.

as for someone mentioning hondata and that othe company...those are NOT Phenolic spacers. basically they are the same type of plastic used in your kitchen cutting boards.

oem gaskets....honestly i havent completely decided on one way or the other. alot of the guys are getting 2 pairs of oem gaskets and putting one on each side of the phenolic spacer. imo this is the "safest" way to go. with that being said, no reported issues of leaking when not using the oem gaskets.


Justin
www.grimmspeed.com (http://www.grimmspeed.com)

[RadeOn]

My physics classes are long since over, but this seems like a good idea. Most heat to the IM is likely to be transfered from the block, not from the air, since metal-to-metal thermal conductivity is way higher than metal to air and back. I have no idea of what thermal properties OEM IM gaskets have, but probably not much of a heat blocking. So if this spacer is done from a material of very low thermal conductivity this will help delay heating up of the IM quite a bit. It will heat up, but probably to a lower temperatures, since (assuming the spacer is blocking all the heat from the block going through the metal) max temperature would be at most as high as the air temperature under the hood.

Coating the whole IM is an obvious next step.

I'm off to research if this spacer will be legal in my autox class. If it is, I'll get it.

[Payback45]

If I were to install this I would have to get rid of my whiteline front strut bar. Right?

[Sambo]

Has anyone Noticed a difference on their subaru with these? been looking to get these but want to know if its actually worth it.

[lancerswimmer89]

Holy old post....there's probably quite a few reviews online for this, as they've now been around for 6-7 years at least.