Optimum Sway Bar Size

[Bimmerman]

Hi all,

I've been reading up on installing rear and front sway bars in my 95 BK, and am a little confused with the wide variety of sizes. I have been primarily looking at Whiteline's products, but am not ruling any company out yet.

My questions for you all are: what would you recommend for both front and rear sway bars when my car is used as a commuter/auto-x rat? I've found the 22mm Whiteline BSR19XXZ for a decent price, are these too small/big for the rear? The BSR19XXZ are listed for a BD/G/K.

For the front, will Whiteline's 24mm BSF20XZ fit, and if so would they be too stiff/not enough/...? The BSF20XZ are listed for an Impreza GC-GR WRK/STi MY94-00. What years of Impreza/WRX sway bars will fit my BK wagon(Not the outback...still confused on whether it's a BG/BK)?

Would upgraded rear/front links a la Perrin/Whiteline be needed with this upgrade, and which brand would you recommend? What about the Whiteline sway bar mount kits from globalperformanceparts.com/boxer4racing.com? Are those necessary as well?

Thanks a lot for your help, and I know it's a lot of questions. I've read the thread over at Nabisco and the stuff on Whiteline's site, but as the Nabisco thread referred more to later model year WRXs and not my much heavier car, I am not sure whether the diameter/stiffness suggestions correlate exactly. Thread for reference: NASIOC Link (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1106362)
Whiteline(under their Swaybar FAQ):Clicky (http://www.whiteline.com.au)

Thanks again for your help!

EDIT-- I'm currently running completely stock suspension. Only mod to the car is snorkus delete/ebay intake.

[Huffer]

You said auto-x rat? So that means you compete with it occasionally?

In that case, I would recommend the 22mm front bar and the 19mm rear.
Improved turn in and increased overall rigidity without the rear being so firm that it'll snap around on you.

[ooberdoob]

my rear is set on 20mm now and i like it. i need a front bar severely though.

on 20 it can get tail happy if i'm stupid about it. generally very manageable and should be much better with a FSB.

[deadlydave]

Though I haven't done a swaybar install myself, I've been told to buy the mounting kit, or at least get new stock mounts. The thought of having something tear loose from the bottom of the car scares me lots.

Mark can chime in about the difference between a BK and BG, I know he loves that.

[ooberdoob]

i've not replaced my links, i should do that. i really want the matching whiteline links, but i really can't afford them. i'm trying to pay for my bronco.

if you can afford to get bars and links, your car will become a completely different vehicle.

[Bimmerman]

@Huffer- Yea, I auto-x it regularly. I don't have any problems installing the stock bars for winter, I want bigger bars for summer/competition driving.

So links and bars, and mounting kit if money permits would be the best upgrade? You all seem to recommend 19-20mm rear, what about in the front? 22-24?

Thanks a lot for the replies.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I would really recommend the IPD rear adjustable sway bar. It has 18-20-22 settings and comes with endlinks and bushings. All for about the price of the whiteline bar by itself (endlinks aren't cheap either) IIRC. I've been very happy with mine, and you can make the car more streetable (18mm) but still much nicer than stock, or you can turn it up a notch or two (something I haven't done yet).

A good bar up front will help decrease understeer, while a good rear bar will increase oversteer, so having a balance is always good. 22mm is probably the best front size if you're going between 18-20mm in the rear normally.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that this makes your suspension less independant from one side to the other (you feel bumps a bit more), and it also makes the suspension less forgiving around corners, so you'll want to have good high performance tires to match the stiffer suspension.

[Bimmerman]

@Wiscon_Mark- Where can I get the IPD bar? Whenever I google it I come up with a volvo tuning site; do those bars fit the leggys? I am definitely leaning towards adjustable bars front/rear, just not sure what size to get. 18-20-22mm rear sounds good if I can find one.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I got it used off another member. I'm not sure where you can get it new.

I think Rallitek used to carry their products. They don't list anything for the older Legacys, but I know they still carry a few things. Try calling them, if they don't have it, they might know who has it.

[Huffer]

You all seem to recommend 19-20mm rear, what about in the front? 22-24?


I would recommend the 22mm front bar and the 19mm rear.
Improved turn in and increased overall rigidity without the rear being so firm that it'll snap around on you.

[rougeben83]

@Wiscon_Mark- Where can I get the IPD bar? Whenever I google it I come up with a volvo tuning site; do those bars fit the leggys? I am definitely leaning towards adjustable bars front/rear, just not sure what size to get. 18-20-22mm rear sounds good if I can find one.

IPD is more known for Volvo's, but they have a subaru lineup. There's a section on their page dedicated to subbies, just look.

[Bimmerman]

@Huffer- Whoops i skipped over that bit. Sorry bout that. Do you know what the stock diameters are f/r for the legacy wagon?

I found an ipd bar on subaruparts.com in the legacy suspension dept, though it doesn't say what sizes the 96-99 adjustable bar adjusts to. Is this the same one you have Mark? Clicky (http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=479) The only size given for the bar is 3/4" or 19mm in diameter.

What years of Impreza sway bars will fit my car if I want to go larger in the future?

Rallitek has an adjustable iPD Impreza kit, Clicky (http://www.rallitek.com/swbarkitfr.html), for a decent price. The rear bar's a bit big. I'll call them up when I get off work to see if they still stock anything for the older Legacys

Edit: Who would you recommend for f/r endlinks? Whiteline/Perrin/Kartboy?

[Wiscon_Mark]

If only one size is given, then it's a non-adjustable bar, but will be a good fit for the rear. The one I have is like the rallitek bar, but not as stiff in the rear.

Impreza rear bars will not fit due to a difference in the spare tire well. You'd have to bash it in to get it to fit.

[Bimmerman]

Impreza rear bars will not fit due to a difference in the spare tire well. You'd have to bash it in to get it to fit.

But Impreza fronts will fit directly in without needing to take a hammer to my car?

[ooberdoob]

correct. first gen imprezas and 2nd gen legacies are incredibly alike.

the front sway is the same exactly.

on a side note, mark's not kiddin, you sure feel the bumps more. my GR2s and the rear swaybar, oof :lol: but i love it just the same.

if you're thinking it'll ride like a solid axle full size truck, well no, but you'll be reminded when you nail that frost heave at 50 hahaha

[rougeben83]

If only one size is given, then it's a non-adjustable bar, but will be a good fit for the rear. The one I have is like the rallitek bar, but not as stiff in the rear.

Impreza rear bars will not fit due to a difference in the spare tire well. You'd have to bash it in to get it to fit.

Not really 100% accurate. The 19mm is probably the width of the bar itself; An adjustable bar just uses a different hole to adjust the leverage imparted by the bar on the spring, and the range they list is usually "what size the bar would be if it was solid" at each hole.

For endlinks...I don't know, the ebay generic ones (sometimes called mr.josh or something) are probably just as good as the name brand stuff...except you don't pay another $80.

[RadeOn]

Metal whiteline links work fine for me. And those are not that expensive - about $70 shipped for a pair.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Not really 100% accurate. The 19mm is probably the width of the bar itself; An adjustable bar just uses a different hole to adjust the leverage imparted by the bar on the spring, and the range they list is usually "what size the bar would be if it was solid" at each hole.

Yeah, I understand the adjustable "sizes" but I've never seen an adjustable bar advertised with the bar width instead of the "sizes" it adjusts to.

[Kraziken]

@Huffer- Whoops i skipped over that bit. Sorry bout that. Do you know what the stock diameters are f/r for the legacy wagon?

I found an ipd bar on subaruparts.com in the legacy suspension dept, though it doesn't say what sizes the 96-99 adjustable bar adjusts to. Is this the same one you have Mark? Clicky (http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=479) The only size given for the bar is 3/4" or 19mm in diameter.

What years of Impreza sway bars will fit my car if I want to go larger in the future?

Rallitek has an adjustable iPD Impreza kit, Clicky (http://www.rallitek.com/swbarkitfr.html), for a decent price. The rear bar's a bit big. I'll call them up when I get off work to see if they still stock anything for the older Legacys

Edit: Who would you recommend for f/r endlinks? Whiteline/Perrin/Kartboy?

I recommend the Whiteline Adjustable bar. It is also 18-20-22.

I believe some of the older IPD bars required that you whack the hell out of your car in order to get it installed.

[Bimmerman]

Hi all,

I went ahead and bought the iPD rear and Whiteline 22mm non adjustable(adjustable was waaay back ordered) bars and the Whiteline alloy f/r endlinks. I have the rear set on the middle setting and love it! The car's very neutrally balanced, rolls much less, and has way more grip than it used to, even with bargain basement all season tires. I haven't been pushing the car till I get used to it, so I'm not sure how it does at the limit. I haven't managed to get any throttle steer, lift-off oversteer, or anything like that, but then again, I haven't been pushing the car much.

I did run into a little trouble installing the iPD bar, it is very true that you have to whack your spare tire well to make it fit. However, the bit you hit isn't structural as far as I can tell. A can of rust proof primer's all I needed to fix the 'damage.' Anyone know what the kinda rubbery coating is that is all over the bottom of the car? I'd like to recoat the well if possible. Considering how much cheaper the iPD bar was new than the Whiteline, and since it came with its own endlinks, I'm happy enough.

@Mark- did yours come with mounting brackets at all? The instructions for mine reference installing the included mounts and brackets, yet they didn't come with the bar. I may get the Whiteline mounting kit later on since I doubt the stock brackets are up to the 510% stiffer rear bar.

Thanks to all of your suggestions, I'm very happy with how my car turned out!

[rougeben83]

A truckbed spray on coating, like rhino-liner or the like is most similar to that underbody coating.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Well, I got my bar from another member, but the original invoice was included, and I believe the endlinks were supposed to be included...

[Bimmerman]

Mark- I have the iPD endlinks, they were included. What I meant were the bushing mount brackets to the car underbody. iPD was supposed to include upgraded, more substantial ones if I read the instructions right. What did you do about hammering your spare wheel well? Did you recoat the bottom with rhino-liner or equiv or did you not need to? My hammer tore the coating is why I'm wondering.

TIA

[Wiscon_Mark]

I also had the bushings, yes.

As for that bump - I mistakenly jacked the car up to install the bar, changing the suspension angles, which made me think I needed to hammer that bump out of the way.

when I realized this, I put the car on ramps and I had no problems with the bump at all, it cleared perfectly. (that would be the correct way to install anyways)

[Bimmerman]

Huh. I installed mine with the rear wheels on the ramps, and it didn't clear. I had to hammer it to get <1mm of clearance now. I didn't want the bar to be rubbing/resting on the bodywork if at all possible.

I got the bushings as well, just not the upgraded mounts.

[Wiscon_Mark]

oh, damn, I really suck at reading comprehension today. Yeah, you don't get upgraded mounts, just the bar, bushings, endlinks, and goo for the bushings.

[Bimmerman]

Haha not a problem. I'm just glad I'm not the only one without the mounts. I'll call up iPD and ask them later today.

[striker]

when you guys say IPD adjustable sway bars. are you referring to the rallitek sway bar kit?

[Wiscon_Mark]

when you guys say IPD adjustable sway bars. are you referring to the rallitek sway bar kit?

I believe that's the only way to get them anymore, it's just a name change. I got my kit used, before it had a rallitek name attatched to it.

[Bimmerman]

Actually, it's still iPD's bar. I called them up to order it a few weeks ago and when it arrived it had iPD documentation. Rallitek/iPD are the same company though.

[AJM]

This may sound dumb, but could someone give me some links to sway bars? Whiteline's site is so messey to navigate.

I'm looking into getting some soon.

[Bimmerman]

I got my whiteline front bar from boxer4racing.com, and got my rear iPD bar from rallitek.com.

[rougeben83]

FYI, I changed out the front swaybar a couple of weeks ago. 22mm IPD front (for a 2.5RS), 22mm IPD rear sway bar. Both are running upgraded bushings and endlinks, whiteline in the front, miata heim joints in the rear.

Better turn-in, the steering response is sharper. The steering effort seems to be a little bit heavier at slower speeds. I tried to detect over/under steer but most of the highways here have light sweepers and I only dare to go 80-85 on them because of patrols.

Will update when I autox the thing this weekend and run stickier tires.

[rougeben83]

Update...I didn't know a front fsb would make such a noticeable difference; even with just 1mm increase in thickness. Cook a corner too hot, almost no understeer - trail braking is much more effective and I can get the tail to rotate much more. Who knew a front end modification would affect how the rear tires would react.

Turn-in, much more linear, more front grip as well. I could brake deeper into the turn and still not wash out.

In comparison, my friend's Saabaru 9-2i (no turbo) with AGX's, lowering springs, RS2 tires, swaybars (25f/22-24r IIRC), was .4 seconds ahead of me on a 60+sec course. Usually he's about a second ahead.

I'm running the swaybars and azenis (same width) + 100-200lbs.

So far, I'm pleased with the results.

Will update once again when I rallycross next weekend :twisted:

[rougeben83]

Update...I didn't know a front fsb would make such a noticeable difference; even with just 1mm increase in thickness. Cook a corner too hot, almost no understeer - trail braking is much more effective and I can get the tail to rotate much more. Who knew a front end modification would affect how the rear tires would react.

Turn-in, much more linear, more front grip as well. I could brake deeper into the turn and still not wash out.

In comparison, my friend's Saabaru 9-2i (no turbo) with AGX's, lowering springs, RS2 tires, swaybars (25f/22-24r IIRC), was .4 seconds ahead of me on a 60+sec course. Usually he's about a second ahead.

I'm running the swaybars and azenis (same width) + 100-200lbs.

So far, I'm pleased with the results.

Will update once again when I rallycross next weekend :twisted:

:twisted: Call me the course cleaner, cause I wiped out more cones than I should have at rallycross today.

So apparently they redid the gravel on the track...and combine that with my n00b skills and bigger front swaybar...much conekilling ensued.

The twitchiness that made the upgrade so good at autox was partially to blame in making the car a little too tail happy in the dirt; lift off the gas over so slightly or left foot brake anywhere but when the steering wheel is straight and it will turn on you very quickly, and countersteering will just get you more rotation in the opposite direction. Near the end I think I was able to tame the car just by adjusting the tire pressures - started 40f/40r, played with the settings until I had 37f/34r.

The oversteering tendency is still there mind you, and it is a little more progressive; still it's much quicker to get this thing sideways than it did with just the rear swaybar before . I'll probably need a couple of more rallyx events to get used to this new setup. :evil:

[Jedi Taxi]

gravel? Gravel slide fest! If your autocrossing on gravel, no one can blame you for cleaning up the track.

[sharky nrk]

rallyx = autox in mud/gravel/snow

[rwm5]

:twisted: Call me the course cleaner, cause I wiped out more cones than I should have at rallycross today.

So apparently they redid the gravel on the track...and combine that with my n00b skills and bigger front swaybar...much conekilling ensued.

The twitchiness that made the upgrade so good at autox was partially to blame in making the car a little too tail happy in the dirt; lift off the gas over so slightly or left foot brake anywhere but when the steering wheel is straight and it will turn on you very quickly, and countersteering will just get you more rotation in the opposite direction. Near the end I think I was able to tame the car just by adjusting the tire pressures - started 40f/40r, played with the settings until I had 37f/34r.

The oversteering tendency is still there mind you, and it is a little more progressive; still it's much quicker to get this thing sideways than it did with just the rear swaybar before . I'll probably need a couple of more rallyx events to get used to this new setup. :evil:

This guy is too hard on himself. He got the hang of the setup and didn't hit any cones his last three or four runs. Plus when they watered down the track his last run was faster than an 07 STi.

[rougeben83]

:twisted: Call me the course cleaner, cause I wiped out more cones than I should have at rallycross today.

So apparently they redid the gravel on the track...and combine that with my n00b skills and bigger front swaybar...much conekilling ensued.

The twitchiness that made the upgrade so good at autox was partially to blame in making the car a little too tail happy in the dirt; lift off the gas over so slightly or left foot brake anywhere but when the steering wheel is straight and it will turn on you very quickly, and countersteering will just get you more rotation in the opposite direction. Near the end I think I was able to tame the car just by adjusting the tire pressures - started 40f/40r, played with the settings until I had 37f/34r.

The oversteering tendency is still there mind you, and it is a little more progressive; still it's much quicker to get this thing sideways than it did with just the rear swaybar before . I'll probably need a couple of more rallyx events to get used to this new setup. :evil:

This guy is too hard on himself. He got the hang of the setup and didn't hit any cones his last three or four runs. Plus when they watered down the track his last run was faster than an 07 STi.

Ah, thanks man! I forgot to ask if you wanted to ride along in one of my runs (I could careless where I finish in the standings) I think it was because I had more lights than him so I can could see better :grin: :grin: (last 2 runs were at night).

Here's an in-cam shot of my 2nd run: http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/ ... un2_PC.flv (http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/rougeben83/?action=view&current=run2_PC.flv)

Count how many cones I hit and you win a prize :lol: