The suspension research project

[scottzg]

The more known about what was available as standard equipment, the easier it is to modify with oem quality, not to mention the benefits of knowing exactly what you're changing. With that in mind...

1 What was the size of the rim on a BD legacy L?
2 Were there BE or BD legacies available without abs?
3 Are BE legacy front 2pot brakes of the 2.5rs style or the legacy turbo style? This could probably be determined by the pads.
4 What are the factory swaybar sizes on BE's and BD's? Outbacks? Can BE's use BC/BD bars? Do the not have a rear one?
5 Can BE's use BC/BD/GC/GD rear springs/struts, with modifications?
6 What are the spring rates for 95-up legacies?

[slip]

1 What was the size of the rim on a BD legacy L?

2 Were there BE or BD legacies available without abs?

5 Can BE's use BC/BD/GC/GD rear springs/struts, with modifications?

1. Stock rim? Mine were 15x6 alloys, but why bother with stock?

2. Yes, My BD L does not have ABS

5. I think Legacies can use WRX rear suspension components without modification. A bushing kit from Energy suspension made for a WRX will also work on most Legacies

[scottzg]

1 i ask because i wanted to confirm that all BD legacies have the 2pot 15" series brakes up front. How about the brightons?
2 Cool. that's another proportioning valve source
3 The BE has a different rear suspension set up than the bc bd's.

[gator gt]

1 What was the size of the rim on a BD legacy L?
2 Were there BE or BD legacies available without abs?
3 Are BE legacy front 2pot brakes of the 2.5rs style or the legacy turbo style? This could probably be determined by the pads.
4 What are the factory swaybar sizes on BE's and BD's? Outbacks? Can BE's use BC/BD bars? Do the not have a rear one?
5 Can BE's use BC/BD/GC/GD rear springs/struts, with modifications?
6 What are the spring rates for 95-up legacies?

1) according to the 1995 FSM, there were 2 rims available.
- 14x5.5" (+55mm offset)
- 15x6" (+55mm offset)

not sure about later BD/BG/BK 'L' rims.

FYI:
- 16x6.5" (+55mm offset) <-- 98 GT rim (Thanks Pwise...I was thinking RS rim offset)


2) 1995 FWD Legacys had no ABS.
1995 Brighton had no ABS.
1995 L optional.

1996 Brighton had no ABS.
1996 L optional.

1997-99 Brighton had no ABS.

Looks like from 2000 on, all Legacys (BE/BH) got ABS.

***information for #2 was obtained from http://www.cars101.com/legacy.html ***


3) BC/BJ (turbo) brakes F: 10.9v R:10.5v (not sure about piston number)
BE/BH brakes F:10.7v R:11.3 (2 piston in front only)
GC/GF brakes F: 10.7v R: 10.5 (2 piston in front only)

v = vented disc. Legacy Turbo (BC/BJ) not a typo....it had vented rear. Only Legacy to have vented rear again is the 05 Legacy GT turbo.

(ed. - except for mine since I have a 05 LGT rear setup!) :-D

this doesn't answer the pad question, but gives you something to go off of. Pads can be cross-binned. For example, the 05 LGT rear setup can use the same pads as the BE H6 model, although the BE has solids and the 05 LGT has vented.

***information for #3 was obtained from http://www.cars101.com/legacy.html ***


4) Not sure about rear sway bar compatability. I'm almost positive that BE/BH have rear sways.

The BC later spawned the GC. The BD shares some components with the BC and GC, but watch your step...or purchases. Thats why most if not all GC suspension setups work on BC, from what I hear.

1995 sway sizes (from FSM):

BD F: 19mm R: 15mm
BG F: 19mm R: 15mm


5) Absolutely not. Period. The BE/BH has totally different rear setups than all previous Subarus. They lost the rear MacPherson strut setup. They have a smaller coil-over-damper with a rear multi-link setup.


6) Good luck on that one. Not many people have paid attention to these figures. The Impreza line up is most paid attention to. Not even the FSM has that info.

GGT

[Pwise2326]

FYI:
- 16x6.5" (+53mm offset) <-- 98 GT rim

Not entirely true...my 98 GT is 16x6.5 with +55mm offset, IIRC all GT wheels (and BE 35th aniversary editions) were the same with these specs.

[scottzg]

Gator, you rock!!!

A few replies and stuff

1 from that i assume that the BD L carried over the same crappy single piston front brakes from the BC had, and that the outback and LGT have the 2 piston 10.9" front brakes with the BJ rear calipers.

I have the 16x6.5 gt rims, they're dead sexy.

2 cool.

3 awesome, the reason i ask about the pad is because 2.5 rs 2 piston front calipers can use a wrx caliper bracket and rotor, where the turbo legacy calipers are of a different design and cannot do this. It'd be nice to know which calipers are on the 95 up, as it could make swapping to wrx brakes much easier. The GC L has the single piston front brakes shared with the BC legacy.

4 BC spawned GC (a short wheelbase BC) and BD (a reskin) For swaybars, the BC can't use a GC bar unless a piece of the spare tire tray is tapped in with a hammer. I'm pretty sure that the BD doesn't have this bump (ill take a picture of it if anyone shows enough interest) and therefore can use a GC swaybar. BD can certainly use a BC bar, as can the GC. All GC suspension stuff will work on the BC (BD), but often spring perches need to be changed, and turbo cars need a turbo front swaybar.

Does the GT have a 18mm rear swaybar? The bc/bf turbo legacy did

5 too bad. I guess the multilink rear makes them 'safer'...

6 my fsm listed the spring rates; bc is 132 132, bj is 134 190.

If you haven't seen my suspension creation it's right here... http://www.bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=2153 I am just trying to compile more info so i can include the BD, make it useful for BD owners, and add a little info on brake stuff. Of course ill post the revised version over here.

I'm saying everything here off the top of my head, so please dont bash me for errors. (but please point them out!)

[jdmconnected]

BE/BH Front Sway Bars are 19mm on the 2.0 L models, and 21mm on the 2.5 L including the Outback.
For rear sway bars the FSM lists the BH 2.0 L wagon as 15mm and "except 2.0L wagon" as 14mm.

Note that my FSM doesn't inlucde turbo models.

[scottzg]

BE/BH Front Sway Bars are 19mm on the 2.0 L models, and 21mm on the 2.5 L including the Outback.
For rear sway bars the FSM lists the BH 2.0 L wagon as 15mm and "except 2.0L wagon" as 14mm.

Note that my FSM doesn't inlucde turbo models.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was different in the us :(

[jdmconnected]

I have an international FSM, and seems to include specs/info for everywhere EXCEPT Japan.
There were no regional differences noted for sway bars.

[gator gt]

1) Be careful when you throw around some general chassis codes. BC is the sedan of the 1st gen Legacy. You may want to toss in there that the BC non-sport models may have had the crappy 1 piston fronts. The Sport version is actually the Turbo.

Again with the BJ. BJ encompasses the Turbo Wagon, which had 10.5 vented rear setup. non-sport versions only had solids as far as I know.


4) You can use GC suspension pieces (struts/springs) but I would advise against it for reasons of spring rates and spring lengths. You do mention perches, which is good, cause they are different. But, Legacys have more PRE-LOAD in the spring assembly than Imprezas do. This is a whole other discussion.


5) also makes it harder to mod....at least here in the states.


GGT

[scottzg]

1 yeah, this thread is mostly me trying to get 'second generation legacy' suspension and brake specifications, and im being a little sloppy with the info im throwing out. I have a BC, and its pretty safe to say im versed on standard equipment and what fits. :D I'm certain that the 'the BC non-sport models have had the crappy 1 piston fronts,' I have 3 sets of these in a box in a shed. Anyone want some entry level brakes?

4 GC sedan rates are only about 7% softer in the rear than BC rear rates. I would assume that its pretty much the same on the BD.

My legacy weighs in at 2830lbs according to a truck scale, about as much as a 2.5rs. I didn't weigh the front and rear independantly, but I think its pretty safe to say it's a little more rear heavy. I'm running 2.5rs springs and struts and an 18mm sway.

I would be practically giddy if you would explain the effects of altering the preload on the springs. I've never been able to find much information on it.


I don't think im going to include the BE, i just don't have any info about them.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Whoa.

After everyone figures everything out, can we have this translated to english please? :lol: I'm glad to see that scotty knows his stuff on suspensions. Way to go all of you with the info :smt023

[scottzg]

Cripe. Figured it out.

http://www.setrialsriders.org/Tech_Arti ... e%2015.htm (http://www.setrialsriders.org/Tech_Articles/Splatter%20Article%2015.htm)

that's a pretty big variable. :cry:

[gator gt]

Woo-Hoo. Someone else typed it out! I was planning on it Scott, but that night something came up and I couldn't get to it. Seems he found a better way of explaining it too.

Good link.

And yes, it is a rather signifant variable. Then, one can make it even more in depth by trying to figure out linear vs progressive springs. :shock:

Have fun.

GGT

[scottzg]

It seems like with linear springs theres no way to increase the spring rate without decreasing the preload.

Hence the need for progressive ones.

assuming the same ride height.

Correct?

[gator gt]

To the best of my knowledge, progressive springs, well, progress up that scale exponentionally.

You want higher rates, think about a higher rated spring.

I had a set of JDM GC Ver5 struts & springs (used takeoffs with just under 620 miles on them) and was intending on using them for my BD. I bought them from a very trusted and knowledgable source. Why didn't he use them? He had a BG, which would have worked with even less pleasing results.

Anyway, he surmised, that if I kept the higher rate/less preload Impreza springs on the Ver5 struts, that I would have a stiffly slammed Legacy. Thing would handle, but it would be lowwww.

His suggestion (as was every other BD owner with Ver5 setup) was to use Legacy specific springs with the Ver5 struts. Gorgeous struts, but were never really intended to be used with the Legacy. They weren't the longest lasting. The dampening that was designed into it wasn't meant to handle the Legacy. There were mixed reviews on them for Legacy use. Some people found the magic combo of strut and spring, others never found nirvana.

The Impreza springs have a preload of .75" at a rate of 224 lb/in. The Legacy has a preload of somewhere around 2.25" at a rate of ~180 lb/in. yeah, big difference.

More preloading would gain you height. Your car only weighs so much, so once the weight is held up, it won't go down anymore, obviously. Your spring rate is your spring rate. That won't change with loading. Load your car up with wieght, and it'll affect it, but all things being normal and within design parameters, more preload is a higher car. Less equals a slammed car.

You want to learn more about preload, spring rates and how things react? Your best bet may be to get a set of coilovers. Koni inserts and Ground Control sleeves may be the most affordable (as far as coilovers go).

Anyone with more insight?

GGT

[Huffer]

4 What are the factory swaybar sizes on BE's and BD's? Outbacks? Can BE's use BC/BD bars? Do the not have a rear one?

I have successfully swapped a Cusco rear swaybar from a 2000 Outback wagon, onto my 1998 Legacy GT (BD).

Everything matched up just fine.

Also, my GF Impreza wagon has an 18mm rear swaybar taken from a Japanese imported Outback (my GF is located in New Zealand).

[filter27e]

Wait so I've been nearly going nuts trying to figure all the suspension differences myself. So the rear geometry of legacys changed majorly in 2000... what about imprezas? Did they ever follow suit? Or would, in theory, I be able to throw some 04 STI strut assemblies in my BD?

[Huffer]

Well, the Impreza chassis didn't change until 2001/2 when the bug eye was released, but there are people matching tophats and using bugeye struts.

I don't think the rear end was changed a lot - I think the specs of the suspension was changed - shocks and springrates etc.