Toyota, Subaru get it right? - AE86 revival

[SilentRacer]

Toyota, Fuji Heavy looking to team on "AE86" revival, target 2010 release
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/08/ae86cover.jpg
A report in Japan's Asahi Shimbun newspaper states that Toyota and Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent) are mulling over the possibility of jointly developing what many have been referring to as the successor to the classic AE86. The entry-level sports car would be branded as a Toyota but would feature a FHI-sourced boxer engine of 2.0 liters or less underhood. As far as pricing, the goal would be to keep the car at ¥2,000,000 or lower. Asahi says that the car would target a 2010 release (not 2008, as previously reported by Japan's Best Car magazine) and that talks between the two entities won't commence in earnest until this Fall.

The Asahi report comes in the wake of the aforementioned Best Car magazine story, which also said Fuji Heavy would factor into the equation, but that a price of ¥1,500,000 was the target. While the two outlets differ on some of the specifics, the basic stories match up, and you know the saying: "Where there's smoke..."

In other news, Asahi reports that Toyota subsidiary Daihatsu will begin supplying its Coo compact wagon (a.k.a. Toyota bB) to Fuji Heavy, and that a Subaru-branded version should go on sale in Japan next summer.

[Superu264]

I just dont like Toyota. Any news of Subaru in bed with them does not please me.

meh

[Wiscon_Mark]

I just dont like Toyota. Any news of Subaru in bed with them does not please me.

meh

The AE86 Corolla wasn't your typical toyota...

[Superu264]

I really don't care what it was. I don't like Toyota products and don't think they can create anything interesting, even with FHI.

They even made a "Committee to Make Interesting Cars," a committee doesn't solve everything, there will be too much input from too many people, you either make interesting cars or you don't.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/30/toyota-establishes-committee-to-create-interesting-cars

[MCarp22]

The AE86 Corolla wasn't your typical toyota...

Back in the mid 80s most toyota models were RWD like that.

[SilentRacer]

Are you forgetting the Supra? the MR2? the 86? ...I think there were plenty of interesting cars.

[Reason]

Toyota made some good cars. That looks like an attempt to copy a 350z.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Back in the mid 80s most toyota models were RWD like that.

I mean in the sense that Toyotas are boring and utilitarian. Which is basically what Superu is talking about. Toyota had plenty of fun, interesting cars, but they killed them all off in the 90s (except the Celica which made it a few more years).

Bringing the AE86 back would be awesome.

[rougeben83]

The old AE86 was a cheap, slow commuter car that was made popular by the aftermarket.

Very similar to the civic. Now it seems Toyota wants to cash in on this popularity - hopefully they'll do it right (i.e. remember the key reasons why the old Corolla was such a hit with the aftermarket)

[Wiscon_Mark]

Light, RWD, sexy looking, and the engine could get the shit beat out of it?

[Huffer]

Toyota had plenty of fun, interesting cars, but they killed them all off in the 90s (except the Celica which made it a few more years).

This is exactly what Subaru is trying to do right now.

[peugoby]

I'm a huge Initial D fan, so hearing about a new rendition of the 8-6 is awesome news!

[Perdue]

Toyota had plenty of fun, interesting cars, but they killed them all off in the 90s (except the Celica which made it a few more years).

This is exactly what Subaru is trying to do right now.+1

[deadlydave]

I'm a huge Initial D fan, so hearing about a new rendition of the 8-6 is awesome news!

Hell Yea. :grin:

[2.5GT]

Toyotas are good cars, im glad it's coming back :eek:

[2.5GT]

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/toyotas- ... ar/331488/ (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/toyotas-return-of-the-ae86-courtesy-of-best-car/331488/)

more pics :grin:

[rougeben83]

Light, RWD, sexy looking, and the engine could get the shit beat out of it?

I don't know about sexy-looking (most of the "nice" looking ones I guess are heavily modified versions with not so-street legal goodies inside), but a cheap, RWD, lightweight car with basic amenities that uses the same "modifiable from the factory" sales model as the Scion brand will more than likely make even more money for 'yota.

If they really support the performance development of this particular car (like GM and their Ecotec cars w/ relation to GM Performance division, or Chrysler and the SRT4 and it's performance division), especially for the grass-roots/amateur racer and car enthusiast, I'm all for it.

[Wiscon_Mark]

This is exactly what Subaru is trying to do right now.

Yeah...I disagree. The new WRX may be less of a kick to the nuts, but we haven't even seen the STi, and Toyota was a little less shaky in their economic foundations when they pulled the plug on the Supra.

[Rockgod]

Looks like the bastard son from drunken sex between a Civic Si and a 350Z.

I love Initial D also but I hate Toyota.

Besides, anyone see Initial D Fourth Stage?

The AE86 got owned by a Subaru and Takumi (the driver for those that don't know) started to have doubts about his 86 and started to love the Subie.

Subaru FTW Forever!

[MCarp22]

started to have doubts about his 86

Because the series has always been about Takumi being poor and overcoming driving a POS with his skill.

[rougeben83]

Looks like the bastard son from drunken sex between a Civic Si and a 350Z.

I love Initial D also but I hate Toyota.

Besides, anyone see Initial D Fourth Stage?

The AE86 got owned by a Subaru and Takumi (the driver for those that don't know) started to have doubts about his 86 and started to love the Subie.

Subaru FTW Forever!

http://www.everything-anime.com/profiles/bunta.jpg My hero :grin:

[subba]

looks be a rwd celica

[Sarra]

The original AE86 was great because it weighed almost nothing, and you could beat the crap out of it. A "new" 86 would be anything but that, due to safety regulations it would be heavy, and due to emissions requirements, the engine would be difficult to tune. Carb vs Fuel Injected, computer controlled... Original 86, you stick a turbo on it, with a new carb, and it's ready to go. New 86, you stick a turbo on it, then you have to reflash the software, then tune the software... All you would have to do with an old one was grab a screw diver to adjust the freaking jets on the carb.

I don't htink they can do it. And if they do, the stupid morons over in the USDM offices will veto it as "oh our buyers won't want it, keep it in Japan".

[Wiscon_Mark]

You can still build a light, safe car that has some zip. Look at the Toyota Echo.

Its problem was looks. It's a good car.

[Sarra]

The 1980's 86 weighed what, 1800 lbs? Good luck making a decent car that light now.

Best bet is to take an original 86, strip it down to the body, and rebuild it with modern parts, like suspension, engine/tranny, interior, and accessories. It would keep the weight down, and you would have a better performing, better handling car than anything brand new that Toyota could come up with. Probably cost less too.

[Huffer]

I guarantee if they're using a Nissan 350Z on a drift track, you'd see the new AE86 out there.

Even the pig-weight STi was RWD converted and competed in D1GP. Weight isn't a concern when the car is stripped and caged. Up the boost y0!

There's a fella in Sydney who took a Toyota Echo (2 door)/Yaris and applied an HKS turbo kit. All of a sudden it made 120whp. In a car that size? Burnouts all the way to the milk aisle.

[MCarp22]

The 1980's 86 weighed what, 1800 lbs? Good luck making a decent car that light now.

They were more like 2100lbs.


take an original 86, strip it down to the body

Then you still have the flexy-flyer 80s chassis, vs something a bit more modern and computer designed with stress analysis and stuff.

[Sarra]

The 1980's 86 weighed what, 1800 lbs? Good luck making a decent car that light now.

They were more like 2100lbs.

Meh, unless it's a micro car, a new one is going to weigh 3000 lbs minimum. The car pictured? I'd estimate 3300 lbs.



take an original 86, strip it down to the body

Then you still have the flexy-flyer 80s chassis, vs something a bit more modern and computer designed with stress analysis and stuff.

Yeah, but you would still have emissions bs. At least with an 80's car, as long as it's early 80's, you can run what the hell ever you want as far as engine goes.

[MCarp22]

Meh, unless it's a micro car, a new one is going to weigh 3000 lbs minimum. The car pictured? I'd estimate 3300 lbs.

Why 3000lbs? The miata comes in under 2600lbs with a folding hard top and a big 6 speed automatic. A 2600lb AE08 or whatever would only need 140hp to match the original's power to weight ratio.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Yeah, believe it or not, there are still cars under 3000 lbs with safety features and amenities.

BTW - the Echo's curbweight for 2005 was 2,020 lbs. It made 108 hp + 105lb/ft and it moved quite well when I drove it. Even with a 3 speed automatic.

[Sarra]

Meh, unless it's a micro car, a new one is going to weigh 3000 lbs minimum. The car pictured? I'd estimate 3300 lbs.

Why 3000lbs? The miata comes in under 2600lbs with a folding hard top and a big 6 speed automatic. A 2600lb AE08 or whatever would only need 140hp to match the original's power to weight ratio.

Yeah, but the Miata isn't exactly a big car, and the new 86 looks like it's going to be a mid size sedan minimum. Miata = two seat sport coupe. I dunno, it just doesn't seem like it's gonna be as cool as the original. They should bring back the Supra instead of the 86, IMO. Inline 6 TT FTW?

[MCarp22]

and the new 86 looks like it's going to be a mid size sedan minimum.

What makes you say that? The concept sketch?

[rougeben83]

The new "86" (it's a chassis code, I don't really think calling something the new of any chassis code is proper, but whatever) is probably going to be the size of the current tC...which begs the question of whether this may actually be badged as a scion in the US.

Can't really beat the miata in terms of lightness and RWD, and most importantly price for a used one. If you want a serious handling, rwd car to build and tinker around with, you can't beat a used Miata.

[Sarra]

and the new 86 looks like it's going to be a mid size sedan minimum.

What makes you say that? The concept sketch?

Yeah. :lol:

I just get the feeling that this is going to be a flawed concept. I'd be enthusiastic if it worked right, but... Blah. I just don't hold much hope, when Subies have dual exhausts and chrome grills.

[Huffer]

The whole problem is that many people never drove the AE86. They don't know the niggly little things that go along with a lightweight shell - rattles, annoying reverberations etc.

I didn't drive it, but I do know how annoying some of those things are.

People only seem to think of the GOOD parts about the old AE86 - and that it was this awesome drift car in Initial D... :lol:

[deadlydave]

I drove an '80s subaru wagon, and it was by no means lightweight...but I second huffer's rattley thing. I spend a lot of time in small cars...especially my gf's 96 corolla, and that thing isn't real quiet inside and gets tossed around by wind on the highway.

[Sarra]

Yeah, that's one of the major things that would be missing from the new one, too. I mean, I loved going from a BE back to a BK because all of the annoying little things were the same. 5th gear whines the same as my old BK, it has the same rattles...

[Wiscon_Mark]

It's not like the 2nd gen Legacy is real quiet either...

Granted, it's no late 80s honda...