Cold Weather Lifter Tick Remedy?

[jmgtp]

2001
2.5
63k miles
daily driver, never abused
usually run Mobil Drive Clean 5w30 or Castrol GTX 5w30, changed every 3k

Is a full synthetic oil the answer?

The cold is approaching which brings back memories of the slow cranking winter starts and the lifter clatter that follows.

My car only falls victim to the clatter, which is definitely lifters (not piston slap or anything else), when temps are subfreezing and of course the colder it gets the louder and longer they clatter. While it likely isn't damaging to the valvetrain it is to my ego, this sound is embarrassing.

Has anyone with the cold temp clatter actually remedied it by switching to a full syn oil?

Since the symptoms are directly correlated with the temperature it makes sense that the the thickened oil would have more difficulty pumping up a lifter and hence the tapping. Whereas a synthetic oil should remain more fluid in the cold and have an easier time making it through the tight tolerances of the lifter.

I'd only make the jump to a full syn in the Suby if we have some documented testimony that it would resolve this issue since it would essentially double the cost of an oil change from $15 to $30.

Thoughts?

[Sarra]

Wait, full synthetic oil doubles the price of an oil change?

[AussieDan]

I still don't get this...most people change their oil 2 or 3 times a year, why not spend an extra $20 each oil change to get the best?

[Matt S.]

I agree with Dan 1000%

And yes, if your clatter is because the oil is thick and it takes longer to lubricate everything due to the cold, synthetic will surely help.

When I switched in my other Subarus, cold turn-overs and noise of the motor was noticeably helped in the winter with full synthetic.

Try it and see, it definitely won't hurt anything.

In my opinion, synthetic is worth every extra cent.

[dodik]

well 5w30 is pretty light oil try switching to 10w30 or 10w40 for winter and see if that helps i add lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in my cars and that helped me but a lot of folks are going to flame me for mentioining that product again. i had hydraulic lifters that were extremely loud when engine was cold but with lucas at normal operating temps noise would almost be unnoticable.

[Matt S.]

Switching to a heavier oil for the winter I would think would add to the problem in getting oil to all the engine parts in a timely manner in cold weather.

If you want to drink a milkshake through a straw faster, you sure wouldn't want to make the milkshake thicker. Just my opinion though :smile:

[LegacyRob]

I run full synthetic Mobil 1 and it doesn't make much difference in cold weather. But I'm still gonna keep full synthetic oil in her.

[jmgtp]

well 5w30 is pretty light oil try switching to 10w30 or 10w40 for winter and see if that helps i add lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in my cars and that helped me but a lot of folks are going to flame me for mentioining that product again. i had hydraulic lifters that were extremely loud when engine was cold but with lucas at normal operating temps noise would almost be unnoticable.

that'd be the opposite direction to go in the winter.

Yes, going full syn would double cost for me. I don't know the prices in your area but locally, 5qts of regular Mobil or Castrol is roughly $12 + $3 or so for a filter... my cost for oil change $15. 6qts of synthetic is $30 here.

I'm not opposed to the extra cost or that synthetic oils are superior (i use full syn in my other car but that car is strictly for me to abuse) just debating whether or not it'd remedy the clatter. Seems like maybe yes, maybe no, probably meet somewhere in the middle. I'll prolly make the switch on the oil change after next that way i can compare cold weather with regular vs full syn.

[Sarra]

well 5w30 is pretty light oil try switching to 10w30 or 10w40 for winter and see if that helps i add lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in my cars and that helped me but a lot of folks are going to flame me for mentioining that product again. i had hydraulic lifters that were extremely loud when engine was cold but with lucas at normal operating temps noise would almost be unnoticable.

that'd be the opposite direction to go in the winter.

Yes, going full syn would double cost for me. I don't know the prices in your area but locally, 5qts of regular Mobil or Castrol is roughly $12 + $3 or so for a filter... my cost for oil change $15. 6qts of synthetic is $30 here.

I'm not opposed to the extra cost or that synthetic oils are superior (i use full syn in my other car but that car is strictly for me to abuse) just debating whether or not it'd remedy the clatter. Seems like maybe yes, maybe no, probably meet somewhere in the middle. I'll prolly make the switch on the oil change after next that way i can compare cold weather with regular vs full syn.

Holy living crap, 5 qts of Mobil 1 non-synthetic oil is about $14, full synthetic is about $18. Royal Purple, for 6 qts, is only $35. If you're running 10w 40, that might be different, but non-synthetic oil is still only $1-2 less per qt compared to synthetic.

I think there is 0w 30 oil if you look around enough, but it might be awfully expensive.

[rwm5]

I think there is 0w 30 oil if you look around enough, but it might be awfully expensive.

Yes there is, European Blend (German) Castrol Oil 0W-30. Though it is hard to find as it was out of production but now it is back!!:grin: I have been finding it at Auto Zone, it looks just like regular Castrol Syntec but says “European Blend” in small print and is made in Germany. It has great cold weather starts hence 0W and according to Bob is the Oil Guy it’s really very close to a 40 weight. The date on the bottom should start with M07 as the 07 is the year it was made. This stuff is great oil, comparable to AMSOIL.

jmgtp, it should resolve your cold weather start problems and silence the “clatter.” Just always make sure you let your car warm-up before driving, especially in the winter.

[Plays_with_Toys]

what filter do you use? The nicer ones have a anti-drain back valve to keep more oil out in the lines. Try stepping up to the $5 pure one, a mobil 1, wix, or napa gold filter.

Just switched to 15w-45 and lovin' it.

[oncesir]

what filter do you use? The nicer ones have a anti-drain back valve to keep more oil out in the lines. Try stepping up to the $5 pure one, a mobil 1, wix, or napa gold filter.

Just switched to 15w-45 and lovin' it.

Exactly!! Cheap fram filters dont come with the anti-drain in them so you get a nice unprimed filter every time you start the car. One other trick is to use a little ATF in the oil. ATF has lots of detergents that help clean things up a bit and, at least in my experience, will usually stop lifter noise. I have an old Mazda B2600, awesome truck, but its previous owner used cheap oil filters. When I bought it it sounded like a diesel. I changed the oil, used a Mazda oil filter and put in a little less than a qrt of ATF. The lifter noise is almost completely gone. It will come back every now and again but it couldnt be mistaken for a diesel anymore. :smile:

[dodik]

oh yeah how did we forget seafoam in the air intake that should clean up inside as well.

[Plays_with_Toys]

seafoam in the air intake won't do diddly to the oil. You can add seafoam to the crank case, but you pretty much need to change your oil about 500 miles afterwards.

I think you should start with a better filter first of all. Also, the manual doesn't recommend below 10w oil, and I was of the belief that a thicker oil was better, because it stays where it is better.

[LunchBox04V]

I use 5W-30(Mobil Full synthetic) year round in Traverse City. Works good, and there is little "ticking" in the cord weather, or on start. Not to sound like an ad, but the Subaru shop that I go to in Traverse City, Subaru Guys, does the oil change for FREE :shock: when you bring your own oil. Even if you use the shop oil and filter (I think Mobil non-syn) it is only $10.00!! I don't know if any of you guys are in that area, but I have been really pleased with their work. Ask for Jerry, or his kid, it is a family business.

[jmgtp]

what filter do you use? The nicer ones have a anti-drain back valve to keep more oil out in the lines. Try stepping up to the $5 pure one, a mobil 1, wix, or napa gold filter.

Just switched to 15w-45 and lovin' it.

Exactly!! Cheap fram filters dont come with the anti-drain in them so you get a nice unprimed filter every time you start the car. One other trick is to use a little ATF in the oil. ATF has lots of detergents that help clean things up a bit and, at least in my experience, will usually stop lifter noise. I have an old Mazda B2600, awesome truck, but its previous owner used cheap oil filters. When I bought it it sounded like a diesel. I changed the oil, used a Mazda oil filter and put in a little less than a qrt of ATF. The lifter noise is almost completely gone. It will come back every now and again but it couldnt be mistaken for a diesel anymore. :smile:

Oil filter doesn't play here... even if the filter was bone dry in a matter of seconds the oil pump would fill that void and the clatter would stop. The issue at hand is lifter tolerances, and more importantly oil viscosity vs temperature. That said... agreed I hate fram filters too! I like AC Delcos but usually get a Purolator for the Suby.

The only way to settle this one will be to try it. I drive about 12k a year so it is only 4 oil changes, the extra few bucks won't be missed and I'll get the benefits of full syn, maybe even stretch the oil changes to 4k.

....I never remember a time when Mobil 1 was less than $20 here! I remember when I first switched to Mobil 1 in my other car, probably about 7 or so years ago and it was $23 for 6qts back then and the crankcase took all of it to hit full. I believe it is beyond $30 now but it's been a while since I've bought it, the other car sees only around 1500 miles a year and no winter so it gets annual oil changes. Reason for my switch.... lifter tick! Though only on a hot engine after severe rpm excursions. Hasn't ticked since.

[rwm5]

...I was of the belief that a thicker oil was better, because it stays where it is better.

I agree with everything you said except this. You always want your oil to be easily pumped throughout your vehicle. A thicker oil is harder to move especially in the winter.

I’m not trying to sound like a jerk here, so I apologize if I sound harsh. :smile:

[Huffer]

I can confirm that a thicker grade oil will quieten a noisy DOHC engine, which is usually more to do with the piston slap than anything - the factory tolerances between cold piston and hot piston are quite great, in fact TWE make cylinder sleeves to help the piston stay straight even when during warmup period.

Synthetic or not, it's more to do with the GRADE/Viscosity of the oil.
10w30 mineral = 10w30 synthetic
5w30 mineral is more "slippery" :lol: than 10w30 synthetic

I use 10w40 mineral in the BD (210k) and 5w30 in the BK (92k) full synth.

Both engines are noisy on startup - but the BK takes fractionally longer to quieten down. Ambient temps in the morning are at 55-65deg F.

I guarantee that 10w30/10w40 would make the BK superquiet, but because I drive short distances in it, I need the oil to circulate quick, so 5w30 is the thinnest oil I will use.

I might switch to 10w30 in winter time and let the car spend a little time warming up...it takes longer in winter for the pistons to expand enough to fill the chamber, and MPG sucks then anyway (5w30 helps to keep fuel economy higher).

[dodik]

seafoam in the air intake won't do diddly to the oil.

i never said it will do anything to the oil but it will take some of that carbon and dirt built up of your valves which are very directly related to ticking problem with lifters :roll:

[jeremod]

I think you should start with a better filter first of all. Also, the manual doesn't recommend below 10w oil, and I was of the belief that a thicker oil was better, because it stays where it is better.

My manual says 5w-30 is preferred year round.

My lifters used to make noise most mornings but since switching to 5w-30 mobil 1 full synthetic they have been quiet. It's been getting down into the 30's here lately too.

[Huffer]

I think you should start with a better filter first of all. Also, the manual doesn't recommend below 10w oil, and I was of the belief that a thicker oil was better, because it stays where it is better.

My manual says 5w-30 is preferred year round.

My lifters used to make noise most mornings but since switching to 5w-30 mobil 1 full synthetic they have been quiet. It's been getting down into the 30's here lately too.

My manuals recommend either 5w30, 10w30 or 10w40 depending on the temperature of the driving environment.

[Plays_with_Toys]

wierd. My manual says 10w at the lowest.

[oncesir]

Oil filter doesn't play here... even if the filter was bone dry in a matter of seconds the oil pump would fill that void and the clatter would stop. The issue at hand is lifter tolerances, and more importantly oil viscosity vs temperature.

Over thousands of miles of driving and lots of "cold" starts a primed oil filter makes a huge difference, if not only for bearing wear but also for lifter "pumping". I use OE Subaru filters and 5w30. No ticking ever, hot or cold. Here is a little filter info from a google search.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

[jmgtp]

Over thousands of miles of driving and lots of "cold" starts a primed oil filter makes a huge difference, if not only for bearing wear but also for lifter "pumping". I use OE Subaru filters and 5w30. No ticking ever, hot or cold. Here is a little filter info from a google search.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

I'm not arguing that a filter with an anti drainback valve isnt beneficial over the long haul.

My point is that even if the filter was dry the oil pump would fill that void damn near instantly and the lifters would have a fresh supply of oil. If the filter was the reason then the car would tick year round at start. The issue is oil temperature creating an effect on its viscosity and the oil not feeding into the close tolerances of the lifter.

[Sarra]

If you're really concerned about lack of oil during a cold start on a cold day, crank it a few times without letting it actually start.

[suba-rude]

Auto Zone in my area sales a dip stick that plugs in somewhere to warm the oil don't know why it really doesn't get that cold in KY but in any case don't know much about it though...

warmer oil flows better... could do the trick.