Whiteline Control vs. Flat Out - noticeable difference?

[JLav211]

Hey guys,

I'll admit - I'm going mostly for looks at this point. My Legacy is not a track star - that's what the Miata is for. SO, I want to sell my 17s, stick with 16" stockers for the duration, and drop the car more. My question: I currently have the Whiteline Control springs, and am considering swapping out for the Flat Out springs - will I notice a difference in height, or not enough to justify the effort?

And yes, I know I should just coilovers. Move along...

[Huffer]

The flat out springs are for agresssive lowering. You will gain additional static negative camber from them, and you will end up maxing out the suspension travel of a stock shock - they'll be compressed all the time.

[redlegacygt]

i have the flatouts and the ride pretty good and give the car a nice low stance.. no complaints from me.. but then again i haven't driven on them all that long.

[JLav211]

The flat out springs are for agresssive lowering. You will gain additional static negative camber from them, and you will end up maxing out the suspension travel of a stock shock - they'll be compressed all the time.

I have upgraded to KYB GR2s all around, so I'm not too concerned - unless the Flat-Out line will even challenge the integrity of GR2s???

Thanks for the input thus far.

Jeff

[rougeben83]

GR-2's are barely a step above stock dampening...the stiffer spring rate from the flatouts will wear them faster.

[Reason]

GR-2's are barely a step above stock dampening...the stiffer spring rate from the flatouts will wear them faster.

I think the GR-2's are like 30-35% stiffer than stock.

[rougeben83]

GR-2's are barely a step above stock dampening...the stiffer spring rate from the flatouts will wear them faster.

I think the GR-2's are like 30-35% stiffer than stock.

No, they're more like 10-15% at most. They're marketed as "OEM replacements", not perfomance upgrades - that's what the AGX line is for.

[Huffer]

KYB GR2's are the equivalent of brand new 95-99 GT shocks - which are 15% stiffer than the rest of the 95-99 Legacy lineup.

AGX are the performance items.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Somebody posted a link for Bilsteins for the BE...

[JLav211]

Do they make the AGXs for the BE?

Also, are they other options for lower springs besides the Flat-Out line?

Thanks,
Jeff

[rougeben83]

KYM makes this purple shock with like 8 levels of adjustment, but I've only seen it in Japan. STI also makes one, it has 4-levels of adjustment, but costs over 1k as well.

Let me rephrase what I said about the GR2's. If you want the flatouts for aesthetics, then the GR2's will be sufficient. On a daily driver basis, the GR2 will be enough to dampen the increased spring rate, but understand that you may need to replace them sooner than the usual 60k lifespan of OEM-style struts.

However, if you want these for the lowered CG and increased spring rate for performance driving, I would suggest you pick out a set of dampers to match.

[JLav211]

KYM makes this purple shock with like 8 levels of adjustment, but I've only seen it in Japan. STI also makes one, it has 4-levels of adjustment, but costs over 1k as well.

Let me rephrase what I said about the GR2's. If you want the flatouts for aesthetics, then the GR2's will be sufficient. On a daily driver basis, the GR2 will be enough to dampen the increased spring rate, but understand that you may need to replace them sooner than the usual 60k lifespan of OEM-style struts.

However, if you want these for the lowered CG and increased spring rate for performance driving, I would suggest you pick out a set of dampers to match.

I gotcha. What I would ideally do is get another 20K-30K out of the GR2s, add front and rear sways to stiffen the chassis, and go with that. In the long term, if I keep the car, I would upgrade the shocks, but given I bought a Miata to be my track car, I plan on making that the more performance oriented vehicle.

All this being said, who the hell still stocks the Flat-Out springs? PDM no longer lists them.

Thanks again!!

[BE-Fresh]

I got my whitelines from Turbometrics. Took a very long time but he was able get it for me. You have to be really good with patience :lol:

[LegacyRob]

I believe these are for sale by http://www.5mileimports.com

BE Bilstiens with STI pinks, $600 http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd190/5Mi_Imports/Shipment%204/BEbilsteinpinks.jpg?t=1197141523

[JLav211]

Bumping this up again - sorry to revisit an old topic that may have already been answered.

Are there ANY other options for dropping the BE chassis more than than the Whiteline Control springs? I really want to get the car a bit lower, but don't want to max out the GR2s, as there really aren't many options for upgrading the shocks besides the Bilsteins.

Anything from the factory? STi springs that drop it lower than the Whitelines? I was considering Tein coilovers until I saw boxer4racing is asking $1,800 for them.

Your input is appreciated.

[Markus]

I have nothing productive to add here. Just do whatever Huffer says, that's what I usually do.

Just wanted to say hey! :smt006 I also have a BE for a daily driver (2003 GT) and a Miata for a track car (1991 with 1.8l engine swap). I do NASA time trials events with the Miata. Overall - it's a great combo!

- Mark

[Huffer]

Bumping this up again - sorry to revisit an old topic that may have already been answered.

Are there ANY other options for dropping the BE chassis more than than the Whiteline Control springs? I really want to get the car a bit lower, but don't want to max out the GR2s, as there really aren't many options for upgrading the shocks besides the Bilsteins.

Anything from the factory? STi springs that drop it lower than the Whitelines? I was considering Tein coilovers until I saw boxer4racing is asking $1,800 for them.

Your input is appreciated.

There are STI pink springs available, their drop is about the same as a Whiteline Control or King Springs Low.
Should be a 25mm drop:
http://www.japanparts.com/db/partslist. ... r=&volkey= (http://www.japanparts.com/db/partslist.php?dealer=1&car=8&middlesmall=3%3A9&maker=&volkey=)

King Springs and Whiteline both make a lower drop, "Super Low" and "Flat Out"
These are 50mm drops. Both must be imported and are relatively expensive compared to a set of coilovers, but the springs are extremely durable.

I have heard that Vogtland springs are at least a 1" drop, which probably means with settling they'll be around 1.25"-1.5"...I know JDMWERKS13 on ebay sometimes pairs up Vogtland springs with KYB GR2 struts.

The GR2s will actually be ok with a more aggressive lowering, but if you beat on the car then you will blow the strut. If you're looking for a cosmetic change only with a mild rebound upgrade the KYB GR2 will be fine for a shock/strut.

If you plan on pushing the car further, then the next cheap upgrade would be a Koni insert into a stock strut pared with the more aggressive springs (50mm drop). Beyond that, you are looking at coilovers... DOOK has a nice set of TEIN Wagon Masters for sale that will work well with the BE.

[JLav211]

Roger and I have been going back and forth on PMs - as usual, he's got some great insight.

One thing that's stumped me is the Whiteline rep said Flat Outs were never made for the BE - can anyone here confirm that they currently have or have run in the past Flat Outs on a BE chassis?

Thanks!
Jeff

[Markus]

Ohmygosh, I might have something to add after all...

In addition to Whiteline or the JDM stuff have you looked at Syms? I have some used Syms lowering springs for my BE, don't have them installed yet so no idea how much they drop the car or how aggressive they are. Unfortunately I think the Syms stuff is a little harder to find...

- Mark

[KAG]

Two more to add for the BE/BH: RS*R's and iON performance springs.

Antonino has the RS*R's on his BD. They're about as rare as the SYMS, and I recall seeing a set or two on a japan site a while ago. I haven't found much info at all on these, but they're out there.

Omahasubaru (IIRC) has the iON performance springs on his BE and he sounds very pleased with them. I think you have to e-mail them personally to get them. There's a few guys over on legacygt.com who have them as well.

Hope this helps, JLav.

[JLav211]

Guys, thanks for the great input.

The RSR springs are exactly the drop I'm looking for; I saw Antonio's car over the summer and it's perfect. However, I've never seen them for the BE.

I'll look into the SYMS - how did you get yours? I'm going to have to talk to 5Mile Imports to see what he can possibly get for me.

I know I've bugged iON before and unfortunately I can't remember what they told me about the type of drop they offered.

[rougeben83]

Guys, thanks for the great input.

The RSR springs are exactly the drop I'm looking for; I saw Antonio's car over the summer and it's perfect. However, I've never seen them for the BE.

I'll look into the SYMS - how did you get yours? I'm going to have to talk to 5Mile Imports to see what he can possibly get for me.

I know I've bugged iON before and unfortunately I can't remember what they told me about the type of drop they offered.

SYMS adverts their springs to drop 1" front/.5" rear lower than the B4, which is already around .5" f/ and .25" r lower than the stock GT. Figure the drop to be in between the control and flatouts.

I've only heard of Flatouts being used on the older Legacy's, I haven't really checked WL's catalouge if they make it for the BE. If their rep says they don't, then I would take their word...

[Markus]

I bought the Syms springs used. From the seller:

"The drop is about 1 inch in front and about 3/4 of an inch in the rear of my BE sedan."

I haven't installed them yet so don't have any verification of this.

- Mark

[JLav211]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I've emailed King Springs, as they seem to be the only ones offering a drop near what I'm looking for.

Any other suggestions, I'm all ears.