Lets play 'guess the broken part(s)'.

[d1giPhux]

So I was driving today, and all of the sudden my engine seemed to shut down..or bog out. It happened pretty suddenly, so I cant say for sure if it bogged down or just shut off. I heard a 'pop' noise.. then the power steering died, and the engine just seemed to stop. Luckily I was able to pull into a dirt lot.. where i tried to start the engine back up.

At first I thought it may have been the crank belt / power steering belt.. but it wasnt that. Then i checked to see if the crank was moving.. and it seems that all of the belts where. I did see some smoke coming from around the crank when it happened.. but im not sure if that was just stuff burning off of the engine or what?

I'm not sure how else I can describe what is happening.. but it just wont start. I try to turn it over, the engine just shakes.. and it seems to make a whining / grinding noise a bit.

I will try to get a video of it later on today.. as right now im going to have it towed to subaru. =[

I dont know if this is something I can fix myself.. but seems pretty random that it just happened so suddenly.. and I wasnt even going fast or anything!!

Any ideas as to WHAT it might be would be greatly appreciated. Or if you can help me diagnose it further.. that would be nice as well!

Thanks!

[Reason]

I wish I could help you out, but maybe you should just get another one and sell me yours for CHEAP!!

[ivwarrior]

Did you pull the cover off to see if the timing belt is intact?

[d1giPhux]

I was thinking it was possibly the timing belt as well.. but I didnt have any tools on me.. so I have not really been able to get into it much at all yet. Its still sitting in the dirt parking lot as of now.. and I'm deciding if i want to get it towed to subaru to have them check it out for $80.. or have it towed back to my apt. If it is the timing belt.. could this have caused any other damage from it snapping?

edit: If its something super serious.. I think i will just try to find a wrx engine and have ECS put it in! ;) haha.. i wish. Wonder how much that would cost total.. maybe less if i could get someone to help me install the hardware.. and they could just do wiring. But im hoping its not serious.

[2.5GT]

ha! isn't common that every subaru breaks down? :lol:

Sorry to hear about that, but you're a subie tech, you can fix it! :grin:


on a side note: I need 2 front knuckles and hubs :roll: ..oh my subie is killing me, one project right after the next....and it's not even aftermarket parts! :neutral:

[d1giPhux]

Haha, I wish i was enough of a subie tech to fix these problems! Unfortunately dont know TOO much when it comes to tearing engines apart.. and I dont have a garage either! :-( looks like its going to be an expensive month. I'm assuming something serious broke.. which sucks. Anyone want to help me with a WRX swap!!? Haha.. that would be nice. Maybe i could just have someone help me put in the engine / rear diff and then have ECS do the wiring or something. Oh man, that would be sweet!

So yea, the car is at subaru right now.. gonna have them diagnose it for $50..we'll see what the damage estimate comes back as! :cry:

[d1giPhux]

So the stealership thinks its the timing belt.. duh.. I'm assuming it is too. They want $300 to dive into that and diagnose.. makes me wish i just did it at my damn house or the parking lot where i got it towed at! :lol: :mad: damn i hate the stealership. So if the belt broke.. who wants to guess how much the valve job will be? fuck.. i wish i had someone around here to just help me swap the engine.. im sick of being slow! :( LOL.

[Hocrest]

.. i wish i had someone around here to just help me swap the engine..

Where are you?? I could help...

[d1giPhux]

up in NH.. so.. bit of a distance from you =/ .

I wonder how much subaru is going to charge me for this valve business.. i mean, I wonder if its even really worth paying 1500-2k for valves (which is what i think they will charge me) on an engine that has 140k. I could probably get a wrx engine and such for around the same price.. then try to have someone help me put it in. Yes.. the wiring would be a hugeeeee bitch.. but i suppose i COULD pay someone like ECS or someone to do it.. or just tough it out. I dont know.. just wondering if this is really worth it.. since I will have to decide soon. I'm guessing i'll just go with getting the damn thing fixed.. but the thought of having a faster car is so tempting! :cool:

[2.5GT]

let them work on it, and hope it runs. or like you said, replace it with a wrx engine.

do you have a beater car? use the beater car for daily driver, and work on the subie on the side.

[ivwarrior]

There's all sorts of things that could be damaged if the timing belt broke. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to tell without tearing the engine apart, or just putting a new belt on and hoping for the best. Could lead to a pretty big repair bill......I'd probably either swap, or get a reman engine if the current one is damaged. At least with a reman, you get a warranty.

[d1giPhux]

Yea.. or just buy another engine for like $800-1100 and drop it in.. cant be hard to drop in the same exact type of engine anyways.. since its exactly the same. I really hope not much is wrong with it.. I will be finding out shortly here.. but the way he said it.. sounds like more shit is wrong. I'm really hoping the timing just skipped.. and didnt break.. but knowing my luck, its going to cost me an arm and a leg and maybe 2 of my balls! :cry:

[redlegacygt]

your swap could be done a little cheaper if your car is already 5spd.. my motor and rear diff, pedal assembly, mt driveshaft, all the wiring and an extra long block is only costing me 1500.. But that from a buddy of mine.

Wiring can be done for 600. and i've gotten quotes for a whole swap at 3500. Thats with going from AT to MT.

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. so this is what they are saying now. I have 2 options:

1. Replace Cam Idler Pulleys for $700
2. Pull apart cylinder head and see if there is any valve damage / replace HG's - #2500

So yea.. this pretty much blows. Not sure what i should do.. i mean.. damn, i guess there really IS no way they can narrow it down without costing me an arm and a leg.

Any suggestions people?

This blows. :cry:

I mean christ.. if im going to spend that much.. fuck this engine. argh! anyone wanna make offers on the shell!? :-?

Oh.. and I already have a 5spd tranny. Hmm, wanna hook me up wih a wrx engine for cheap too!? haha. This blows. :cry:

[redlegacygt]

if your parting out, i'll take your tranny :lol: Im actually in your same position. Car died, took it to the garage.. They thought it was a starter, i told them no, the changed it anway and found out it wasnt the starter, but thought it had no compression from a busted timing belt. I told them they were prob. right and brought it home.

[d1giPhux]

Wish i knew someone right near me who could help with a swap.. because $2500 for the same POS 140k engine back.. yea.. doesnt sound like a good deal to me. I dont even care if dont have the car for a month or two.. guess im gonna have to buy a bike, or get use to walking again.

How much you think the car is worth if i part it out?
How much if i sell it outright?

Id really like to keep it however.. i just dont know WHAT to do. =/

I can get the full wrx swap for $3500 and ECS wants another $2570 to install it or so.

Thats JUST for the engine. Do i really need to do anything else.. such as suspension, etc etc?

Sucks I dont know anyone to help me.. id be all about learning about this stuff.. just have no one to show me the ways of the master. haha.

Damn car!

[Huffer]

Wish i knew someone right near me who could help with a swap.. because $2500 for the same POS 140k engine back.. yea.. doesnt sound like a good deal to me. I dont even care if dont have the car for a month or two.. guess im gonna have to buy a bike, or get use to walking again.

How much you think the car is worth if i part it out?
How much if i sell it outright?

Id really like to keep it however.. i just dont know WHAT to do. =/

I can get the full wrx swap for $3500 and ECS wants another $2570 to install it or so.

Thats JUST for the engine. Do i really need to do anything else.. such as suspension, etc etc?

You wouldn't need the suspension done if ECS does an engine swap. The engine will bolt up to whatever transmission you have. If that price includes parts, labor and wiring a WRX ECU into your harness, then you're golden.

It would make sense to do a transmission swap at the sametime if you have the parts around.

[redlegacygt]

no, its 3500 to swap everything. Includes wiring, motor, tranny and rear diff, which you wouldnt need so yours would be cheaper... JDMSPEC4U

[d1giPhux]

This is what they said to me:


Ill start with pricing for you.

Full WRX Conversion 7000 + 600 shipping from our supplier to us or our
supplier to you. (this is basically buying a damn wrx parts car)


WRX Motor Only Conversion Parts 3500+ 300 Shipping from our supplier to us
or our supplier to you. (this is just the engine im assuming.. no rear diff?)

Full conversion installation 3550.00 (not including rear diff)?

Motor Only installation 2750.00 (what i could barely afford :lol: )

So yea.. i feel like im screwed. Only way i could go that route would be to have someone help me with the physical install of the engine, then have ECS do wiring.

I found someone around here.. somewhat close selling this:

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/pts/454714309.html

Which isnt too bad, but id try to talk him down.

Also.. mark, I've heard that the LGT tranny is better than the WRX tranny from several of the sites of read and such. I think i would need a new clutch however.. because mine is probably too weak for what type of power the wrx engine would be putting out.

Realistically.. i have about $5000 i could spend on this.. which basically means I cant do it without help / installing it myself / months of down time.

:(

I dont even know what to do with this damn thing now, and the subaru hounds are pushing for me to pay the $2500 im sure.

[Huffer]

Full WRX Conversion 7000 + 600 shipping from our supplier to us or our
supplier to you. (this is basically buying a damn wrx parts car)


WRX Motor Only Conversion Parts 3500+ 300 Shipping from our supplier to us
or our supplier to you. (this is just the engine im assuming.. no rear diff?)

Full conversion installation 3550.00 (not including rear diff)?

Motor Only installation 2750.00 (what i could barely afford :lol: )

Also.. mark, I've heard that the LGT tranny is better than the WRX tranny from several of the sites of read and such. I think i would need a new clutch however.. because mine is probably too weak for what type of power the wrx engine would be putting out.

Realistically.. i have about $5000 i could spend on this.. which basically means I cant do it without help / installing it myself / months of down time.


I guess it depends on how decent of a shell you have, plus whether or not you want to buy premium gas from now on.

You can get away with just the engine & wire install, and do the tranny later. I doubt you'd have too many problems with the LGT tranny, unless you abuse it.

ECS could have it done in under a week, which is a helluavalot quicker than you could. Work an extra job for a few weeks to get back on your feet, cut back on your expenses a bit and get back on the road.

Your lowest cost option is to replace the motor with another stock one, and the dealership should kick in a free loaner car for all that work.

Don't pretend to be a victim, make them compete for your business.

Hey - why don't you see if ECS has any similar EJ25 DOHC engines they can sell you & install?

[d1giPhux]

Yea.. i could probably get another EJ25 engine put in for much cheaper than having this all fixed. I see them selling for arounf $300-800 all the time.

And compete for my business... id like to know who exactly they are going to compete with.. considering i live in the middle of nowhere.. and they are about the only people who will work on subarus.. ask reason, he will tell you how desolate it is in bum-fucks-ville! :lol:

It would be nice to get a free rental car.. i actually have this coupon for 1 day free rental car with over $300 in business.. which i could take up from them.. but i dont think i can even do that cause im only 21. I thought you had to be 25 to rent a car? At least in this state its like that.


Found someone selling a complete 03 wrx drivetrain for $2500 .. dont know how far they are. Says it comes with everything except the wiring harness. =/ hmm.

So.. that seems about complete + $3500 install... which isnt TOO bad.

However.. i might just get this junk fixed anyways. $700 to start, and $2500 if things really go wrong. I guess its not TOO bad.. just seems like a waste of money dumping $2500 into an engine with 148k+ and to top it off.. its not even a fast car! LOL

The only reason id spend the extra money on a wrx engine would be newer / faster.. and maybe more reliable.. but i doubt it.

Also.. only other reason im trying to get this figured out is.. because i have to decide if i want to go forward with the stealership fixing it or not.. or.. i guess it can just sit there.. i have no probs with that either... since its not going anywhere. :roll:

[Huffer]

Seriously, see if the Subaru dealership will put in a moderately used engine, and how much they would charge. You could buy an engine, have them install it and drive away.

[redlegacygt]

is ECS the only place you've looked at doing a swap?

[d1giPhux]

^ Yea.. so far.. because I don't even know WHERE else around here works on subaru. If anyone..

I know there is this one import shop around here... but i think the just work on Nissan / Toyota / Honda. There arent too many big name car shops around here and such.. jus dealerships and small hole in the wall type shops.

The only reason I'm considering the swap is.. because.. spending $2500 on fixing my old engine seems sort of pointless.. when i could pay just a bit more.. or have someone help me put it in. I do have a friend with an engine hoist and such.. but i think he mostly does honda swaps.. etc..etc.

So.. im not sure.. just putting all ideas out on the table right now.

Anywhere else on the east coast close to NH/ VT/ MA that does swaps that anyone knows of? The reason ECS would be easily accessible.. is its only about 1.5 hours from me.. and i could get a cheap uhaul car trailer + a friend to help me tow my car down there for cheap.

[d1giPhux]

So I asked that guy about his 2003 WRX engine he's selling.. this is what he said:
--------------------------------------------------------
It depends on if you want the stock I/C or aftermarket. I'd sell the Engine (Complete running longblock) with the turbo x-member, stock I/C and reflased (Tuned) ECU for ~$1700. Or $1900 with the aftermarket I/C and all it's parts. If this is too high make me an offer. I'll have to get the ECU reflashed back to stock if you don't want the aftermarket I/C as you can't run this much boost through the stock I/C safely. For this price you won't be getting the headers, but I will supply you with the factory exhuast manifold. You'll just need some gaskets for it.
--------------------------------------------------------
By long-block.. what does he means? I also forget what short/ long block means? Anyone know how much a complete wiring harness would run me?

Thats a pretty damn good deal for the whole engine.. if thats what he means. Then I could try to find someone to help me put it in, or pay ECS $3500.

Any thoughts on this?



Edit: This is what he said :


---------------------------------------------
Longblock is actually the wrong term here. I've selling a turnkey engine, which is a complete ready to run engine. I'll basically only be physically removing it. Nothing else comes apart. Longblock is typically deemed a shortblock (engine block, crank, rods, and pistons assembled) plus heads and sometimes intake manifold.

You are getting the engine, as pulled in complete form. I need NOTHING from it for my swap. It currently is in the car and running and has just over 87K on it. I'm in Indiana on the East side, about 45 minutes or so from the Ohio border.
------------------------------------------------------------

So looks like it IS basically turn key. Hmmm.. damn, im getting devious thoughts now.

What else would I need to add to the list?

-Complete Wiring Harness?

[SammyDaFish]

are you thinking of doing this swap on your own? if so, I think it's going to be to much for you to tackle. if you've got to ask all these questions you're not experienced enough to get this done quickly, and if you don't have a garage or a place to leave your car for a few months while you learn it's just not going to work for you.

I've seen a few DOHC EJ25s break the belt and be fine. Throwing a belt on and running it is easy work (about an hour's worth of time). you've got a 50/50 chance your engine will be fine. I dunno where this $700 estimate to do a timing belt is coming from, you're getting jacked big time if that's what they want. even at $100/hr labor rate it shouldn't be more than a $400 job. Going to the dealership isn't the best move. Subaru's are nothing special in the car world, actually they're much more simple than most other brands. Any shop would be able to fix your car and likely for half what the dealership wants.

$7k on a wrx swap is ludicrous, just buy a WRX if you want one. add the value of your current car and the price is the same, plus you don't have a hacked together car.



the lesson learned here, regular maintenance saves you headaches. Do your timing belt more often.

[d1giPhux]

Well.. the friend who I know around here who has the engine hoist.. etc. He's done swaps on other cars before.. even though they are honda.. im sure he could help me out. If he couldnt.. then id be down $3500 for ECS to install it / do the wiring.. etc. Which may be the best bet. I mean, $1800 for a wrx engine in working condition, complete.. sounds pretty tempting to me.

It was $700 for the cam pulleys.. so he said. I still think It would suck to pay $700 then realize the damn engine needs to come apart and add another $2500 to the bill.

I was told the timing belt was replaced.. but.. i never checked for papers with the guy, so i guess its kind of my fault. I've only really driven 10k miles on the car so far though.. so that sucks. The belt didnt break..it just skipped. Which.. as they say.. might have still caused damage. Is this correct?

I mostly want to do the wrx swap for speed..cause.. im getting a bit sick of the legacy being slow. =/ So.. its sort of like the 'if i dont jump on it now, im never going to do it' type of thing. Plus.. even if i do get this fixed.. and try to sell my car.. its not going to be worth more then 5k tops I bet. So .. i dunno.. just a couple of things that are pushing me towards it. If someone wants to direct me towards better info about the swap.. that would be helpful. Ive searched around.. mostly found stuff for impreza with wrx swaps.

And hey... if we never try anything.. we dont learn. I suppose i could just have everything done for me.. but thats not what were here for now is it?

I could be wrong..

[Huffer]

If you're close to ECS, I would just be a check-book racer.

[d1giPhux]

Thanks for the encouragement guys! :roll:

[SammyDaFish]

And hey... if we never try anything.. we dont learn. I suppose i could just have everything done for me.. but thats not what were here for now is it?



I'm totally for you trying to do the swap yourself and learn from, just don't do it on the side of the street since it will likely take you three times as long as you think it might. If you wanna try it yourself find a garage that you could use for a month or two while you figure it out



why do they think you need cam gears? I've never seen them break before... I mean I guess they could, but they are pretty tough, not really sure how that would happen.

You sure they didn't say cam seals? that's a common thing to replace during a timing belt job, but once it's apart, it takes five minutes to time it up with a belt on there and start it to see if it runs. They don;t need to put it back together to do that. thirty seconds takes the belt back off to do the cam seals.

[ivwarrior]

I would be hesitant to put $700 into the engine as a gamble, and I definately wouldn't put $2500 into it. Swap, cheap lower mileage junk yard engine (again a gamble) or REMAN engine with 3 year/36,000 mile warranty (http://www.ccrengines.com/#engines)

[d1giPhux]

Yea.. but REMAN engine is like $3k or something too.. well at least from the stealership. If i remember correct.. they said 'cam pulley'. Not sure exactly what they were talking about.. but i will ask them again tomorrow. I'm also going to ask them how much they would charge to just drop a diff engine in. I just dont know if i want to go with the same engine. EJ25's seem to have a lot of problems.. HG's, seals.. etc etc. I'm sure other engines do to.. but havent the ej20's been produced for longer, and are a bit more 'reliable' so to say? I'm not sure I really want to spend the money.. but for the increase in power / entertainment / reliability of an 03 engine and lower mileage.. might be worth it.

How long does it usually take to physically just drop the engine in.. no wiring.. or w/e. Anyone have any sites I could check out? that would be very helpful!

If i did swap the engine.. would it bring the value of the car up.. or not? The exterior is in amazing condition.. same with interior.. so.. maybe it would be worth it?

I could get a used engine.. it would be like $1000 say..but then to have someone drop it in.. at the very least i bet they will charge me another $1000 or more. Id be lucky to get away with $1k.

Maybe i will just be a check book racer.. spend all the $ i've saved on it. :(

[dplacencia]

I wish you were closer. I could help you out big time. It takes about 1-2 hours to remove the entire engine. It's not hard to do at all.

[d1giPhux]

I know.. wish u lived closer. =/ It doesnt seem like it would be very hard to do. Had a couple other questions:

1. Can someone list the complete parts I may need to do this? So far i have:

-Complete Engine w/intercooler & turbo
-Up pipe?
-rear diff
-sub frame? (i dont know, the guy i was talking to said he had them as well)
-engine wiring harness (dont need the whole car correct.. just engine?)

2. Would i need a diff clutch.. since mine is probably made for the ej25. How hard is this to install once the engine is out?

I'm just asking questions.. no decisions yet.. just want to know what it takes.

I basically have someone who would sell me his complete turn-key wrx engine from his running car + turbo cross member + rear diff + engine wiring harness for a good price.. just looking at what else i would need to write into the costs if i do decide to do this.

Thanks guys.

[d1giPhux]

So yea.. subaru called me back.. they really are pushing for a decision on my part. Guess I will just waste $700 on a risk of 'possibly' fixing my engine. If that doesnt work.. I'm going to say fuck this car.. because right now I'm a bit irritated that not even they can tell me if it will fix it.

Bottom line: Skipped timing belt? What caused it.. even subaru doesnt know apparently. But only $700 will get me closer to the engine.. hmm.. great deal. :roll:

[redlegacygt]

dont pay them the 700. Take it home and sit on it awhile if you have some time like you said. No sense in wasting the 700 if your not sure what you want to do. As for swaps. Go on nasioc and PM JDMSPEC4U. They are in canada, but do some amazing work and prices are kick ass. Their install price if you have all the pieces are around 1200 us dollars.

[d1giPhux]

edit: Found his correct user name , its 'JDMSPECC4U'.


Damn thats pretty sweet. Where are they located in Canada? Do you know if that includes wiring harness merge / etc? Anywhere that I can find a full list of stuff I might need. I think I pretty much have it narrowed down.. but im not sure. Thanks again.. having to make a decision soon sucks. I dont have much of a choice.. right now i'm just bumming rides and bus and such.. but eh.. i can keep doing it.. doesnt bother me any! haha.

[redlegacygt]

i believe that includes the wiring and install but dont hold me to that. I know they do awesome work and can do it pretty quick. They've done one swap in 8hrs. They also make sure they take care of your car. They even fill it with good fluids like Motul.

[redlegacygt]

Things you will definitly need for the motor swap:
complete motor. turbo, ic, etc.
complete bulkhead harness - the one behind the dash
complete front harness - this includes the fuse box under the hood and the wiring upto the headlights and fans.
ecu - manual trans
full exhaust
front x-member

thats the list RS22B gave to me. Actually,i've talked to him about doing a swap. You could PM him and see if he's up for helping you with your swap.

Dont feel bad, i was/ still kinda am in the same situation you are. My car died the night before my wedding and it was supposed to be the car for the best man! Anyway, took it to the garage, they thought it was a starter. I told them i didnt think it was, they changed it, found out it wasnt and didnt think it had any compression. They called, said they were going to split open and find out, but it would be atleast 300. Told them not to touch it and i towed it home. Now im getting my swap done soon. If your patient, things will work out.

[d1giPhux]

How long has your car been broken for? Or.. out of service rather! haha. Are you going to do the swap yourself with rs22b? Hmm, would be cool if i could get some people to show me how.. but no one really lives close enough. Id be willing to pay if it wasnt like $3k. Or if i could have someone help me put the engine in + rear diff.. hen i could just get the wiring done at ECS and save like $3k.

Also, the guys engine i was talking about buying said he would include the engine wiring harness.. does that mean the 'front harness' like you said? Wonder where i could get the front bulkhead harness and how much it would run me?

If you get the full exhaust.. don't you need to have it lengthened because of the size of the legacy?

And for the turbo x-member.. i wonder if it would be better to get a legacy or wrx one. Lots of people say you need to use shims to use the WRX one.. so i suppose i could just sell it and get a 94 turbo legacy one or something if its easier.

Still not sure what I want to do.. might just have it towed back to my apt.. because at the moment.. id really rather not pay $700 to MAYBE fix my 140k mile engine. Because the next thing to go on it will be the HG's.. then i will be out of another $2500.. so screw that. People keep telling me to just get it fixed and drop the $700.. but i dont know.. id rather not.


This is what the guy says about his engine:
----------------------------------------------------------------
'What I've got is the complete drivetrain out of my 2003 WRX. It's complete from hub to hub, you'll also recieve the complete front and rear sub-frames, with the rack and inner/outer tie rods in place, along with the rear trailing arms etc. I've got the complete brake and hub assemblies with nearly brand new (maybe 1500 miles on them) Brembo OE, blank rotors and Axxis Ultimate Pads. You will not be getting the body wiring harness for the car, but you'll get the engine harness (The 2 conn. that terminate by the turbo.) '

'The engine is modded and this will be going with the swap: Xo2 Racing bigarse TMIC with silicone couplers and cast AL pipes, MR un-equal length SS 1 piece headers (If you don't want the headers I'll knock off $200, and send the stocker with stock catted U/P) Tsudo ETC catless bellmouth stainless downpipe. The car has been tuned by a local road tuner (mod. at OpenECU.org) by a reflash, and the ECU will go with the swap.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I can get all that for $2500.. which seems pretty good to me. Or i can get the stock engine + (flashed ECU back to stock) and stock intercooler for $1900 shipped.

Then i just need the wiring harness i suppose. If i could get it done up in montreal by that guy you recommended for cheap.. that would be awesome. Id like like $4k in with a swap.. and thats great!

I kind of want to do this.. because it would be cool.. and i kinda of dont because of the time i will have to bum rides and such, and people calling me stupid for not knowing what im doing probably 80% of the way. haha. .

But.. i think i may.. just because it would be cool to have a turbo legacy and a newer engine with less mies (89k as opposed to 140k) :roll:

[SammyDaFish]

you're diving yourself to deep into this.... just have them stick a timing belt on it and see if it runs, then you know if you need an engine or not. It's a half hours worth of work. If they say you need $700 worth of work have them give you a written estimate and post it up here.

you've got two issues here 1, you need a working car 2, you want a better engine

they have little to do with each other so don;t get wrapped up in a new engine that you probably don't need. Don't have the dealership do anything other than get your car running, if they are giging you this much they will really shaft you if you want an engine swap. That timing belt job should cost you a few hundred at MOST. Subaru timing belt jobs are easy.

[Reason]

He jumped the timing belt, it's a DOHC motor, most likely he bent a valve.

[redlegacygt]

my car's been down for almost 2 months now. I've been driving my wifes HHR back and forth to work which isnt bad, but not as fun. Dropdfocus who's a friend of mine is actually helping with the swap. I hope to start it as soon as i find a transmission, ecu, turbo and intercooler. The last three arent hard at all to find.


To be honest, the only reason im doing a swap is because i just feel its the right time. The car is payed off. I just bough the HHR which is good on gas and has a solid warranty. I didnt want to buy a new car, so i figured id swap this car. Not have a payment, and still have super cheap insurance. I'll prob. end up getting a cheap slider car as a backup. But by doing all this, it lets me build my house and only have a house payment and 1 car payment as my two major payments. Not bad for being 21.

[SammyDaFish]

He jumped the timing belt, it's a DOHC motor, most likely he bent a valve.

not necessarily, I've put belts on a few DOHC EJ25s that broke or skipped and they were fine. you don't know unless you put a new belt on and start it. that's only an hours worth of work from nothing, if they have the belt covers off already its 10 minutes worth of work, why not just throw a belt on and see if it runs.... who knows, he could have gotten lucky.

[Reason]

I said most likely, I'm sure theres that small margin. The car is at the dealership, I doubt they will say "Well the covers are already off, it will only take 10 mins, we can slap that on and send you on your way". They are going to want top dollar. Have them check the valves to see if they are bent, then again they may say they are even if they aren't.

[d1giPhux]

my car's been down for almost 2 months now. I've been driving my wifes HHR back and forth to work which isnt bad, but not as fun. Dropdfocus who's a friend of mine is actually helping with the swap. I hope to start it as soon as i find a transmission, ecu, turbo and intercooler. The last three arent hard at all to find.


To be honest, the only reason im doing a swap is because i just feel its the right time. The car is payed off. I just bough the HHR which is good on gas and has a solid warranty. I didnt want to buy a new car, so i figured id swap this car. Not have a payment, and still have super cheap insurance. I'll prob. end up getting a cheap slider car as a backup. But by doing all this, it lets me build my house and only have a house payment and 1 car payment as my two major payments. Not bad for being 21.

Yea, not bad for being 21 at all.. at the age of 21.. i have one car.. and its broken. Oh.. and school loan payment! :lol: :roll:

Reason: I think you are right about that.. i mean, i think they just want my money. I dont know WHY they suspect the cam pulleys.. like.. wtf? The guy even said it was just the belt that skipped.. maybe i should just tell them to put a new belt on and call it a day.. though.. he said they would if they DID put the cam pulleys on. Trust me.. they are trying to fuck me already.. they wanted $300 just to look at the damn timing belt.. so they are full of shit. I really dont even want to give them anymore money..but at this point in time.. im just stuck as to what to do.

[SammyDaFish]

yeah, that's the feeling I'm getting, he's getting shiested, why the hell would he need new cam gears, that's like selling him blinker fluid.


If I were you man I'd tow it to a different place and have them just finish the belt job. You're gettin it in the ass from that dealer.

[d1giPhux]

Indeed.. but like I said.. no one else works on subarus around here.. so.. it sucks. I will look around.. but I seriously doubt anyone will do it for cheaper.. worst part is.. i paid $300.. and STILL dont know exactly wtf is wrong.

Talked to the guy today, and he said they used a 'stethascope' or some shit.. i dont know what its called.. but it 'didnt sound like valves were broken'.. but they still wanted to replace my cam pulleys. Can someone please explain to me wtf a cam pulley is? are they just talking about the cam gears, or what?

So as it is.. im $300 out.. which is complete bullshit.. and my car is still as dead in teh water as it was to begin with. Subaru dealerships are a scam.

[2.5GT]

He jumped the timing belt, it's a DOHC motor, most likely he bent a valve.

Didnt happen to mine, i was lucky. my Left side head cam jump 180* off.

[d1giPhux]

So.. what should my next move be then.. tell them to just replace the timing belt.. and see if that works? What exactly are these 'cam pulleys' they are taking about? I really have never heard that term before. They said if i got those replaced.. they would also do the timing belt.. but seriously... i dont know what they are talking about.

Also.. if the belt skipped and then the car was attempted to be started... would that more likely cause valve damage... if the belt was just skipped? Maybe i should ask them how much the belt skipped just to get further info out of them?

I'm reading my FSM and i dont see anything about 'cam pulley'.. sounds like damn snake oil to me! :evil:

[SammyDaFish]

they might want to replace the tensioner or belt idler pulleys. even if that's the case, they should just stick the belt on and make sure the engine runs. boreascopes work fine for seeing broken valves, but the DOHC EJ25 is valve to valve interference which is more difficult to see damage from.

I dunno what you mean about no one works on Subaru's they aren't special cars, any shop will work on one, they don't need to be specialized. It's not like it's a Ferrari or a Jag. Any mechanic worth his wrenches can do this job in a few hours.

[d1giPhux]

^ Funny you say that.. because ive taken my car to a few places and had them turn me away saying 'we dont work on subarus'.. kinda lame.

And yea..maybe i should just talk to the mechanic directly instead of some desk jockey who might be confusing words? Cause honestly.. i have no clue what a cam pulley is.. maybe its the idler? Could be right on that one. I'm gonna give them a call when im outta work today and try to pick their brains more.

Anyone have anymore good questions i can ask them?

[SammyDaFish]

what did you pay $300 for? to diagnose a broken belt?

....unless it was a really far tow

[d1giPhux]

^ My friend.. this is exactly what I keep asking myself. Hence I really dont want to go any further without knowing exactly wtf is going on. I'm taking it up the ass.. and hard. I will be calling these people asap when i get outta work and trying to talk to a mechanic.. because the desk jockey is fucking me all up. He keeps saying things that dont make any sense. I think they are just trying to confuse me and rob me blindly.. but screw that.. i wont have it! Hence why i want to stop now.. because i dont want to be in $700 deep with a still-broken engine.

[SammyDaFish]

if you paid anything already you should have a receipt, they will also give you a written estimate of the work they want to do. get that and post it up here word for word.


if a shop is turning away subarus, then they must be some real old timers.... that is possible though, a few shops around mine are slowing going out of business because the mom and pop places don't want to learn anything new... they just wanna retire. makes my shop so busy we can't even breath.

[d1giPhux]

^ and that is supposed to mean? I have a feeling you think the stealerships in my neighborhood are friendly people. I have a different opinion about them. Only reason i took it to them was to get a diagnostic.. then they said.. 'oh we cant really figure out whats wrong.. you need to authorize $300 for us to figure it out'.. so stupidly.. i did. They didnt tell me exactly what was wrong.. and now they want to do $700 in repairs to 'further find out whats wrong'. SO.. as you can see.. im a bit skeptical. Trust me.. this place is NOT the place I WANT to be going to. I think today I will start searching about for others.

[SammyDaFish]

they still need to give you a written estimate upon request, it's likely state law (is in most states). that way there's no confusion over what's going on.





my comment on other shops was really just a remark about the industry in remote areas.

[Huffer]

You also have the right to refuse the payment until they explain it to you in terms you understand. However if you signed a jobsheet authorizing a $300 estimate, then you're up the creek.

[d1giPhux]

Yup.. so I still dont know what I should make them do.. if anything. Just slap another timing belt on there and call it a day? If it doesnt work after that.. is it really even worth keeping the engine? Cause after that.. or after the $700 in work, they would want to open it up for another $2500 in work.. and thats really NOT worth it!

[AJM]

They are ass raping you. I had an entire engine (e22) swaped in by for $800 including all parts a labor.

[d1giPhux]

^ No doubt my friend.. im grabbing the ankles on this one. I really dont know what to do? Pull out.. or.. continue. =/ ugh.. hard decisions. If I can get a good price from those guys up in montreal.. might just go the wrx route. Cause even if it started getting too expensive.. if i get a good deal on shit.. i can always sell it off.

[ivwarrior]

I'd really like to know WHY they think you need one, any chance you can go by and ask them to SHOW YOU why it needs it? (and possibly take pictures for us?)


Cause honestly.. i have no clue what a cam pulley is..

Ok, since I didn't see where anyone explained this part to ya, I'll try.

There are several pulleys (sprockets) that the timing belt is routed around. It starts at the crank, which drives the belt. There's another at the tensioner that keeps the belt properly tightened. There's an idler in there basically to align the belt in a spot they needed to to move to. There's one on the water pump to drive it, and there's one bolted to each of the 4 camshafts to turn the cams.

This is for a 2.2L single cam, but it'll give you the idea, just you have 2 more cam sprockets. :) Sorry, the exploded diagram was the best I could find....

http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d801c5da8.gif

[SammyDaFish]

Yup.. so I still dont know what I should make them do.. if anything. Just slap another timing belt on there and call it a day? If it doesnt work after that.. is it really even worth keeping the engine? Cause after that.. or after the $700 in work, they would want to open it up for another $2500 in work.. and thats really NOT worth it!

bro, until you post up an estimate up here with what they wanna do and have already done, there's no advice anyone can give you. right now it;s the telephone game and what's getting posted here might have nothing to do with what's actually going on. if you want some good advice, you need to post up what they give you in writing.

[redlegacygt]

yeah id say if you cant even get a good answer from the mechanic, then just bring it home and hunt for another shop. The worse case scenario then is that you'd have to take it back there. But its better then getting ripped off by them pressuring or confusing you.

[d1giPhux]

Yup.. so I still dont know what I should make them do.. if anything. Just slap another timing belt on there and call it a day? If it doesnt work after that.. is it really even worth keeping the engine? Cause after that.. or after the $700 in work, they would want to open it up for another $2500 in work.. and thats really NOT worth it!

bro, until you post up an estimate up here with what they wanna do and have already done, there's no advice anyone can give you. right now it;s the telephone game and what's getting posted here might have nothing to do with what's actually going on. if you want some good advice, you need to post up what they give you in writing.

Sure there is.. i see no correlation between me getting a written estimate and people giving me their opinion on the matter? Why do you keep arguing with how much it will cost? Do you not believe that stealerships want peoples money or something? If so.. you must live in one nice neighborhood! haha. I'm just confused as to WHAT you are tryin to prove? I'm not going to go get a written estimate.. because frankly I have no reason to prove it to anyone. Even if this was all hypothetical.. I can still ask for opinions. I have told you WHAT they want to do, and the options available? So.. wtf?

ivywarrior: thanks for the diagram.. makes a bit more sense. How could the cam pulleys.. or cam gears as you call them get worn out?



Redlegacygt: Sounds like a plan. I'm still looking into my options as of now. I didnt get time to go over the dealership yesterday to talk to them.. because i had no ride. I'm going to try to get over there today and talk to a mechanic. I think if i go anywhere with it.. I will just ask them to put another timing belt on and call it a day. I'm still looking into options with swapping the engine too.. but i need to get a hold of those guys in montreal! Seems like your the only one who has useful opinions right now on this matter. thanks! =]

[SammyDaFish]

the point is to find out what they are really trying to charge your for. you're concerned about spending a lot of money, the quoted price of $700 is more than double what a timing belt job should cost. Seeing the estimate could help me (and the rest of us) save you money or at least advise you. Maybe they found other things wrong and maybe they are gigging you. If you post up what sums up to that $700 we can advise you on what to do and likely save you some serious coin. If you really want to save your wallet your only other option is to get your car out of there. A new/used or rebuilt engine will probably cost you more than the car is worth at that dealership and they probably won't even do an engine swap (wrx ect..).

You're weighing your options against a staggeringly overpriced estimate. That timing belt job should be in the $250-$300 range, and if that's all it cost you to get your car back it would likely seem like a more viable alternative to an engine swap. Especially if your engine is known to be good, which any good shop would have already put the belt on and run it (without putting the whole thing back together) just to see if the engine was good.

so seeing the estimate is about helping you not get shafted, if you wanna give your money away go ahead. personally it pisses me off knowing that you (or anyone) is getting screwed

[SammyDaFish]

BTW, just for some FYI and to elaborate on ivwarrior's post, it's not terribly uncommon for a shop to want to replace all the idler pulleys when doing a timing belt (some manufacturers recommend it). You don't have to, but it's good measure. If they did, the job could cost about $100 more than a regular belt job, so putting you in the $350-$400 range, and even that is a little high.

Here is all the parts that would be replaced.
http://info.rockauto.com/Gates/NBH2522771.jpg

[d1giPhux]

Thanks for the info! Well this is the way I look at it. They wanted $300 just to LOOK to see if the damn timing belt was broken.. so i think they are fucking with me. I'm going to go over there today and try to get shit straightened out.. because they still have not explained WHAT is wrong. They keep just telling me.. 'well were not sure. It doesnt sound like your valves are bent.. but we dont know for sure unless you want to spend $2500 and get the engine torn apart. On the other hand.. you COULD spend $700 and we will replace the cam pulleys and timing belt for around $700'.. thats what they told me more then a few times. So.. i think they are definitely over-charging.. but I will go over there and try to get a written estimate today to see EXACTLY what is up. I will also talk to the mechanic and see why he thinks that those things SHOULD be replaced. However.. i still dont know if i have valve damage or not.. so really.. if i did even dump $500 into it.. its still a $500 gamble on a 149k mile engine. =/ Know what i mean?

[redlegacygt]

couldnt they just do a compression check?

[SammyDaFish]

couldnt they just do a compression check?

not without putting a new timing belt on

[d1giPhux]

Well if they did put the new timing belt on.. what would a compression check do? Would it be able to tell if the valves were broken? Interesting that they didnt suggest this.. hmm

Also.. redlegacygt.. I spoke with andre up in montreal.. that guy is mad cool. Answered basically all the questions I could ask him, and he was really nice about it! Those guys are mad cool up there... might just have to do it! :twisted:

[Reason]

Did you price out a used short block from them yet? That may be the fastest, easiest less headache approach. It's not a WRX swap but it's a lot less and better than them you spending 2500 for them to say well, looks like you need another engine. These people deal with all kinds of problems everyday all day. Any real mechanic can tell you what the problem is. One of my friends is A Saab tech at a Saab dealership. Every damn time my ex gf Saab had a problem right away he knew. He had one, her sister had one which he was dating, so he was always doing something to their cars. I used to spend a lot of time at the Suby dealer next to my place because I knew the service guy and I hear the techs talking, THATS why I don't trust dealerships, plus they tried to put one over me.

Any person working with mostly a Subaru for 5-15 years should know everything about the Subaru and what goes on. Imagine going to the Doctors for a cold and he has no clue what you are talking about after you gave him the common symptoms. What I'm trying to say is the dealership is playing dumb.

[SammyDaFish]

Any person working with mostly a Subaru for 5-15 years should know everything about the Subaru and what goes on. Imagine going to the Doctors for a cold and he has no clue what you are talking about after you gave him the common symptoms. What I'm trying to say is the dealership is playing dumb.

good analogy




on the compression check note, it would indicate if the valves were damaged, but would take longer and you don't need to do it. once the belt is on (which you need to do a compression check anyway) all you need to do is start the engine (before putting the cam covers, crank pulley, radiation or anything back on) if the car starts and idles smooth then the valves are fine, put the rest back together and be on your way.

[Reason]

After my GT got hit in the front, we took the intake manifold off and sprayed WD40 in the valve chambers. We (by hand) turned the crank pulley. If theres bubbles the valve is bent. And I had bent valves, you may get lucky who knows.... oh yea the Suby tech knows!

[d1giPhux]

Did you price out a used short block from them yet? That may be the fastest, easiest less headache approach. It's not a WRX swap but it's a lot less and better than them you spending 2500 for them to say well, looks like you need another engine. These people deal with all kinds of problems everyday all day. Any real mechanic can tell you what the problem is. One of my friends is A Saab tech at a Saab dealership. Every damn time my ex gf Saab had a problem right away he knew. He had one, her sister had one which he was dating, so he was always doing something to their cars. I used to spend a lot of time at the Suby dealer next to my place because I knew the service guy and I hear the techs talking, THATS why I don't trust dealerships, plus they tried to put one over me.

Any person working with mostly a Subaru for 5-15 years should know everything about the Subaru and what goes on. Imagine going to the Doctors for a cold and he has no clue what you are talking about after you gave him the common symptoms. What I'm trying to say is the dealership is playing dumb.


Most definitely.. come to think of it.. i was in he shop one day while i heard them talking out loud about trying to pull the wool over on a customer.. then the 'big boss' came over and basically gave them this look like 'you shouldnt be talking like that in front of the customer (me)..' and they looked back over at him and changed the subject... it was kinda sketchy.

I dont think i want another EJ25 if Im going to replace anything on the engine.. its far too old.. worn out.. and not a very reliable motor. Plus.. the itch for more speed is talking to me in my sleep. :roll: LOL

I think I might just do it. If im not satisfied with that the subaru place has to say today.. I'm gonna pull it.. buy up the wrx stuff, and take the car up to canada. Sure.. checkbook racing is kinda lame.. but eh...just an excuse for me to get some new stuff on the car that i've always wanted.

Oh, and the guys in montreal quoted me $2500, including all labor, wiring, fluids, clutch job, custom exhaust.. etc. Plus they told me they can have it done in 2 days if i want.. so .. i dunno.. they sound awesome. Much better response then i got from ECS and about $2000 cheaper.

[redlegacygt]

see, i told you they are good! haha. There deals are the best around and the quality of work doesnt suffer either.

[Reason]

If you can afford the WRX swap and you want it bad go for it. I don't see a problem paying by check book, is that a bad thing these days?

[d1giPhux]

see, i told you they are good! haha. There deals are the best around and the quality of work doesnt suffer either.

Yea.. andre was wicked cool on the phone.. answered all of the questions I had, and even thought of some ways to save me more money! Definitely my type of place! I think I might do it.. im so damn tempted.. everyday more that my car is at the subaru place.. i just wanna drive up to montreal with a wrx engine. haha.

[Reason]

Does this place have a website?

[d1giPhux]

Does this place have a website?

Nah.. not really. And they are kinda hard to get ahold of. I think their website is www.jdmspecc4u.com (http://www.jdmspecc4u.com) ... but as you can see.. its all lorem ipsum.

[Reason]

I must have deleted the pics of my shattered cam gear. I'll tell you this, they aren't made of steel.

[dplacencia]

The cam gears on a 96-99 DOHC engine are plastic.

[d1giPhux]

So here is what the subaru shop wrote up for me.. not very detailed.. but.. whatever.

'Found 3 Different Pulleys broken and timing belt broken and it jumped timing. Reccomend replacing pulleys and timing belt, then recheck. '

The description was very poorly written no doubt... but.. it explains a little. On the slip it also says:

'Engine wont start, and VERY noisy when turning over. Suspected internal damage.'

So.. i basically went there and talked to them.. they think the valves would be broken, and even though they said they couldnt know for sure unless they replaced the pulleys. The pulleys i FINALLY found out, are the idler pulleys.. so they told me when i went to talk to them.. but never documented it. :roll:

So now im contemplating if I want to try to have a friend help me put pulleys / belt on and try it.. or if i want to just do an engine swap. All of the parts are off right now, timing cover, crank pulley.. etc..etc. So it shouldnt be TOO hard to replace the stuff if I dare try it and risk spending the $.. even thought they told me.. 'its very likely the valves are bent.' Especially because i heard some NASTY sounds coming from the engine when tryng to turn it over =/

[Reason]

Did you price out a used short block from them yet? That may be the fastest, easiest less headache approach. It's not a WRX swap but it's a lot less and better than them you spending 2500 for them to say well, looks like you need another engine. These people deal with all kinds of problems everyday all day. Any real mechanic can tell you what the problem is. One of my friends is A Saab tech at a Saab dealership. Every damn time my ex gf Saab had a problem right away he knew. He had one, her sister had one which he was dating, so he was always doing something to their cars. I used to spend a lot of time at the Suby dealer next to my place because I knew the service guy and I hear the techs talking, THATS why I don't trust dealerships, plus they tried to put one over me.

Any person working with mostly a Subaru for 5-15 years should know everything about the Subaru and what goes on. Imagine going to the Doctors for a cold and he has no clue what you are talking about after you gave him the common symptoms. What I'm trying to say is the dealership is playing dumb.

[d1giPhux]

If im going to be doing any engine replacing.. I'm not going with the EJ25.. too unreliable.. too many problems with them.. especially at high mileage. I'm sure it would be cheaper.. but eh... i dont know. I might just go with the timing belt / pulleys first.. and if that doesnt work.. swap.

[Reason]

How much is that going to cost?

[d1giPhux]

Well.. since I'm having the car towed back to my house.. just the cost of parts + headaches trying to figure it out myself.. or headaches from trying to beg friends to help me out. I dont even know if i want to putz around with it however.. i'm still in the process of deciding if dumping $5k into a wrx engine is worth it. Any clue on what the downsides might be?

[Reason]

honestly I wouldn't dump any money into fixing your current motor. I would swap it out with another EJ25D, wrx, or sti.

[d1giPhux]

^ thats what i've been thinking. So.. if i do get the wrx engine.. its supposedly out of a currently running wrx with 89k. The guy is upgrading to a sti engine.. thats why hes getting rid of it. He has good seller feedback online, and other good references.

What else can I do to be sure its a good engine? Compression check? Any other things I should look for / ask?

He is including a larger intercooler with the engine. 'Xo2 Racing bigarse TMIC with silicone couplers' ... will this fit underneath the hood of a BD series car?

The ECU is already tuned to run with this intercooler.. as thats how its on his running car now... if i got the stock I/C i would need to get the ECU flashed back to stock.. where could I get this done? He said he could do it.. but im just interested just in case.

Okay.. so here is the parts list I've compiled so far.. please feel free to correct / add things to the list:

-03 WRX Engine w/ I/C turbo, MAF, airbox, ECU
-Complete body harness from an 02-05 WRX (06 is not the same?)
-Front and Rear sub frames? (What exactly does this include?)
-Rear Differential
-stage 2 clutch for 99 Legacy 5SPD tranny.
-MR un-equal length SS 1 piece headers (does this include down pipe, or is this diff)?
-Downpipe? (not sure if this is separate from the header? or? confused on this)
-Custom Exhaust

Any other things I need / Dont need on this list to do the install would be GREATLY appreciated if you can point them out and help clear things up for me.

The exhaust is included in the price of the swap and will be custom.

Thanks guys! =]

[redlegacygt]

It sounds like a good deal for that motor you've found. however a buyer always has to beware so do as many tests as you can before buying it. If it were me, i'd maybe pay a couple extra dollars and have Andre get you a motor. That way it will have less mileage and you'll have a piece of mind.

[d1giPhux]

Only problem is.. isnt most of the stuff he gets JDM? We have emissions here in NH now.. so i would THINK that it would be a problem to do that. However.. im not really sure. Also, JDM stuff would be harder to get parts for in the long run.. hence why i wanted to go with USDM. hmm.

[SammyDaFish]

you know I'm not 100% sure of this, isn't the phase I EJ25 only valve to valve interference? What I mean is that I don't think it's valve to piston interference. Therefore with a broken timing belt cranking the engine over would cause no bad sounding internal noise since the valves (even if damaged) would not be turning and they would also not hit the pistons. The only alternative to that is if a valve actually broke, but they checked that with a boreascope already and said there were no broken valves. Just another thing you should know about saying they shiested you.

You can probably tow it out of there, buy a repair manual and do the timing belt yourself. Save yourself a lot of dough and learn a little. If it runs, then you're good to go, if it doesn't then you can go down the road to a swap. Either way your car isn't at that steelership anymore and they aren't bleeding your wallet. Plus once you get it towed out of there and you have a full written receipt of what they did you can contest it and maybe even place a complaint with the DMV about it. I dunno about where you are, but here in NY the DMV is pretty strict on shops that try to screw people and they will make the shop give you your money back.

[deadlydave]

you know I'm not 100% sure of this, isn't the phase I EJ25 only valve to valve interference? What I mean is that I don't think it's valve to piston interference. Therefore with a broken timing belt cranking the engine over would cause no bad sounding internal noise since the valves (even if damaged) would not be turning and they would also not hit the pistons.

I know the Phase 1 EJ22 was non-interference. The Haynes Repair manual I have says that all Subaru Legacy/outback 2.5 N/A '96-'99 were interference.

[SammyDaFish]

you know I'm not 100% sure of this, isn't the phase I EJ25 only valve to valve interference? What I mean is that I don't think it's valve to piston interference. Therefore with a broken timing belt cranking the engine over would cause no bad sounding internal noise since the valves (even if damaged) would not be turning and they would also not hit the pistons.

I know the Phase 1 EJ22 was non-interference. The Haynes Repair manual I have says that all Subaru Legacy/outback 2.5 N/A '96-'99 were interference.

yeah, all EJ25's are interference, how is the question though. the DOHC ones are at least valve to valve interference. The SOHC engines are valve to piston interference, but the compression is higher on those engines.

[redlegacygt]

Only problem is.. isnt most of the stuff he gets JDM? We have emissions here in NH now.. so i would THINK that it would be a problem to do that. However.. im not really sure. Also, JDM stuff would be harder to get parts for in the long run.. hence why i wanted to go with USDM. hmm.

from time to time he gets in USDM ones. The last time i talked to him he had 2.

[d1giPhux]

Good question on the interference thing.. im not sure. I have the full factory service manual myself... so maybe I can try the timing belt thing out. We'll see. They said they checked it with a boreascope.. and didnt hear anything.. but still told me that they thought the valves were broken? I dont know.. they arent very good about explaining exactly what the problem is.. probably because they want you to just keep paying them to try things. Who knows.

redlegacygt: Yea, I will give him a call today and see what he says about USDM engines..I'm sure he's gotta have a few kicking around.. or maybe be able to get them. However that deal on that engine I found seems to be pretty damn good.. minus the 7+ hour ride to go get it.. or.. well.. its 14.. but the guy said he'd meet me! haha.

[d1giPhux]

SO yea.. can anyone help me with that parts list? I think I might want to get going on this since its starting to get cold out.. and my car is looking pretty lifeless frozen in the driveway! :cry:

[d1giPhux]

So I checked with andre about pricing out a USDM WRX package from him.. and he says he can probably do better than what I told him about. Man, those guys rock up there. Definitely one of the nicest people I've talked to about getting stuff done for a good price! :thumbup:

He also told me you DONT need the rear differential to do the swap? Does anyone know if this is true? I told him I would like to keep the LGT 5 Speed tranny... and he said I wouldnt need the rear diff then.

Anyone know the + - of keeping the 5 speed LGT tranny? I heard that its better than the WRX one because the gearing is better and such? Can someone inform me please? Thanks!

[SammyDaFish]

your rear diff needs to be matched to your tranny. you'll be better off just keeping the stock tranny and running gear and simply upgrading the clutch. You'll have to use your stock flywheel and NA EJ clutches though, turbos are pull type. None of that should be a big deal though unless you plan on making serious power out of your new engine. But since you're trying to stay on a budget, save all that stuff for another day.

[d1giPhux]

Thanks for clearing that up.. thats what i figured. If i do do it, i plan on getting a stage 2 clutch like andre told me to go ahead and do. Can anyone recommend a good company that makes stage 2 clutches for the 99 LGT?

[Reason]

Thanks for clearing that up.. thats what i figured. If i do do it, i plan on getting a stage 2 clutch like andre told me to go ahead and do. Can anyone recommend a good company that makes stage 2 clutches for the 99 LGT?

ACT, Exedy Impreza RS 5 spd trannys are the same. So if you don't see Legacy specific look for an RS.

[d1giPhux]

Has anyone heard of some company called 'bully' or something.. im not sure HOW its spelled.. but thats what Andre recommended. Never heard of it.. dont know too much about it I've just heard of the ones you mentioned. Would you recommend ACT over Exedy? I have an exedy clutch in my car right now.. and its OEM spec.. but i dunno.. dont like it that much.

[Okin DaVanh]

Thanks for the encouragement guys! :roll:

Where in NH are you located? and is it possible to rent a storage unit (big enough to work in) locally?

[d1giPhux]

Hit you back via PM. Might be going up to montreal this weekend.. maybe. I think if the engine were to be fixed, it would need.. timing belt, all the related pulleys and such, and possibly new valves / head gasket.. etc.. etc.