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View Full Version : Intake Manifolds...how to fight heat and quicken spool.



GrimmSpeed
11-06-2007, 02:13 AM
The intake tracts on our subarus are often overlooked. The intake manifold and TGV's are the last destination for the intake flow before it enters into our almighty boxer engines. To keep it simple, we want to keep the air in this section as cool as possible and as smooth as possible(no steps in flow, etc).

Now the stock location of the Subaru intake manifolds is not that great...it sits on top of the engine so all of the heat from the super heated engine naturally flows up into the intake manifold(which we want to keep cool!!). obviously this isnt great. Your options as to moving the intake manifold are next to zero so we need to work the stock location intake manifold in order to gain back some of this lost power due to heat.

On to flow. In terms of intake flow you want the smoothest transition from pipe to pipe as you can possible get. When Subaru made our cars this was not a concern to them so there is some room to work there. Also, Subaru gave us these nice Tumble Generator Valves(TGVs) that are used on start up for emission purposes. TGVs are not needed. Some people have said they have rough cold start up idle for a few seconds but i sure havent and i live in Minnesota!

How to fix this mess you ask?



Resolving the heat issue.

The aluminum intake manifold sits directly on top of the aluminum super heated engine, obviously this isnt ideal. We will start out by putting a GrimmSpeed Thermal Spacer between the Intake Manifold/TGVs and the piping hot engine. These work amazing for blocking the transer of heat...they block like 300 Spartans!!

Next we will deal with the issue of the radient engine heat rising up into the intake manifold. Here comes our second blocker, Therma Barrier Coating. Putting Thermal Barrier on your Intake Manifold will block the radient heat that rises off the engine into the bottom of the intake manifold thus reducing the temperatures of the air flowing through the manifold thus creating a horsepower gain. The saying is for every 10 degree drop in temperature there is a 1% increase in power.

The Throttle Body is another little area where the stock setup isnt the most logical for power output...Subaru decided to run an engine coolant line through the throttle body. Warning: you will want to keep this if you are in -50 degree outdoor temperatures regularly. For those of you who are not, we want to get that very hot engine coolant from running through our throttle body(which we want to keep cool). There is a very simple mod for this, take of the inlet coolant hose and outlet coolant hose and join them together with a metal connector. What this does is simple bypasses the throttle body thuse keeping that 200+ degree coolant out of it keeping it cooler.

There are also a few companies that sell throttle body spacers that will make the intake manfild plenum bigger which have shown to make gains, i believe Group A makes a nice one. On my project car in addition to the heat coating on the intake manifold i am also going to strap a thermal blanket on the bottom of the intake manifold to block even more of the radient engine heat from entering the manifold. my guess is that this will work very effectively.



Resolving the flow issue.

Tumble Generator Valves(TGVs) are a great starting point to quicken the intake velocity. By completely gutting out the TGV which takes out the bar, divider plate, and butterfly plate, this completely takes out all the restrictions to flow which existed in the stock form. Like stated earlier these are only used for a very short time on startup and are not needed. Many dynos have shown a 10hp gain with this mod alone.

Next we will want to smooth out any steps there may be in flow from connection pipes/couplers/etc. We will start with the Throttle body. Here we can knife edge the inlet lip to create a much smoother transition from the TB hose to the actual TB thus creating less turbulence.

Transition #2 we will want to get rid of the step between the intake manifold and the TGVs. This can be done by porting out the outlets of the intake manifld runners and the inlets of the TGV's to be matching diameters. At this point we have have both connections(TB Hose> TB and IM>TGV) matched up perfectly for the smoothest flow possible.


Not to bad for working with the stock pieces eh? :)


Justin Grimm
www.grimmspeed.com (http://www.grimmspeed.com)
AIM: GrimmSpd

GrimmSpeed
11-06-2007, 02:37 AM
a visual of a few of the things...

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/intake_manifold_tgv_spacers_blue_gs_services_500_4.jpg

Sarra
11-06-2007, 02:42 AM
Maybe it would be a better idea to just put an intercooler with liquid nitrogen foggers on the intake?

Don't forget to re-route the coolant line going through the TB.

In that diagram, there's a little circle, directly to the left of "Intake manifold PnP w/ Ceramic coating", what is the device that goes there? Can I remove it, or relocate it? It's gonna get in the way of a few pieces that will hopefully be installed there in the future...

Jedi Taxi
11-06-2007, 11:21 AM
a legacy GT hood can cool down the piping before the throttle body really good, for the N/A guys. needless to say, with that hood, a Top mount intercooler would work really well. with enough design and damn good fabrication (with calm hands) you can make fiberglass intake piping that will handle the boost. The reasoning behind it, Fiberglass doesn't transfer heat like aluminum pipe does.

GrimmSpeed
11-06-2007, 12:26 PM
Maybe it would be a better idea to just put an intercooler with liquid nitrogen foggers on the intake?

Don't forget to re-route the coolant line going through the TB.

In that diagram, there's a little circle, directly to the left of "Intake manifold PnP w/ Ceramic coating", what is the device that goes there? Can I remove it, or relocate it? It's gonna get in the way of a few pieces that will hopefully be installed there in the future...

the pieces that you are talking about is the TGV motor and sensor. there is one on each side of the TGVs. when we do the delete they get taken off and we plug the hole.

Sarra
11-06-2007, 05:27 PM
My problem is that I want to put a supercharger right down the center of the engine. Putting spacers or anything under the intake manifold is going to make that so much more difficult.

Jedi Taxi
11-06-2007, 06:57 PM
(oh no, another book of a post by jedi taxi)

too true, it really does look like a eaton M62 supercharger would be right at home there. only problem, rimmer did too, and did it wrong. people ended up having to make a "blister" in the hood so that the supercharger could fit. personally, there are better designs out there, even i am venturing out in the designing of one such kit. Really, the problem isn't the supercharger, it isn't the person making it, its how well thought out down to the last detail everything is. Some have succeeded, many have failed.

Sarra
11-06-2007, 07:03 PM
too true, it really does look like a eaton M62 supercharger would be right at home there. only problem, rimmer did too, and did it wrong. people ended up having to make a "blister" in the hood so that the supercharger could fit.

I'm starting to wonder if various things on the intake manifold itself could be relocated, to make a little more room. I'm sure the coil pack can be relocated... The problem comes when you want to add a turbo, and the supercharger is being plumbed directly into the intake manifold. Though, I'd like to run a TMIC, but Supercharger + TMIC = not gonna happen.

Jedi Taxi
11-06-2007, 07:28 PM
Well, their is always this solution

http://www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=HP

it works really well from other 944 owners that I hear from.

SammyDaFish
11-07-2007, 02:24 PM
yeah, I have 1/2" phenolic spacers on mine... needed them to clear the intake pipe to the turbo, 3" intake pipe under a phase II ej25 manifold was a tight fit :)

rougeben83
11-07-2007, 02:33 PM
Well, their is always this solution

http://www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=HP

it works really well from other 944 owners that I hear from.

Just a regular air-water intercooler would be better.

Jedi Taxi
11-07-2007, 07:55 PM
thats pretty much what it is, but a bit different. Anywho, anyone else hear about the supercharger that came out fot the 2.5L?

http://www.raptorsc.com.au/images/kit_20_ub.jpg

They haven't announced a price yet, but its kinda exciting.

Reason
11-07-2007, 09:28 PM
thats pretty much what it is, but a bit different. Anywho, anyone else hear about the supercharger that came out fot the 2.5L?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

They haven't announced a price yet, but its kinda exciting.

Who is making it?

Sarra
11-08-2007, 03:07 AM
thats pretty much what it is, but a bit different. Anywho, anyone else hear about the supercharger that came out fot the 2.5L?

[3mg]http://www.raptorsc.com.au/images/kit_20_ub.jpg[/img]

They haven't announced a price yet, but its kinda exciting.

Who is making it?

I second that question.

Jedi Taxi
11-08-2007, 07:55 AM
Raptor in australia.

Here is a link

http://www.raptorsc.com.au/kits.php?id=20

SammyDaFish
11-08-2007, 08:06 AM
thats pretty much what it is, but a bit different. Anywho, anyone else hear about the supercharger that came out fot the 2.5L?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

They haven't announced a price yet, but its kinda exciting.

eh, cool to be different, but absolutely no performance gains over a turbo when running a centrifugal supercharger

Reason
11-08-2007, 08:09 AM
Very cool, thanks for the link Jedi.

Alright lets stay on topic. I plan on doing the thermal coating by GrimmSpeed. I have a TB ready to go when I have some extra money come in. I'll take some pics.

Jedi Taxi
11-08-2007, 09:53 AM
I'm still trying to think up of different ways to cool the thing down. we've listed most of the common ways.

hey grimspeed, do you port, ream, or bore the legacy L and GT throttle bodies? if so, what do you bore them to?

GrimmSpeed
11-08-2007, 12:24 PM
I'm still trying to think up of different ways to cool the thing down. we've listed most of the common ways.

hey grimspeed, do you port, ream, or bore the legacy L and GT throttle bodies? if so, what do you bore them to?

yeah we'll port pretty much any part off of any subaru. what we do angle the TB from the plate out to the lip. you cant really bore the entire TB out because you need to keep the surface around the plate the stock ID. our lip is close to knife edged which probably takes off 1-2mm.

Reason
11-08-2007, 02:14 PM
Justin do you have any TB's around that you have PnP already? To give us an idea what it will look like finished.

Jedi Taxi
11-08-2007, 07:24 PM
Hmmm, im going to the yard tomarrow, I'll pick up a few.

Sarra
11-08-2007, 11:09 PM
Can you port my CD player? I want an input jack for my MiniDisk player. :lol:

If I end up doing a side-mounted SC, I'll be monkeying around with the intake manifold, throttle body, and pretty much everything else. I might even be looking for a spacer. If the SC goes right onto the manifold, I'm gonna be pulling the TB and putting it on the supercharger itself, that'll let me play around with it a little.

GrimmSpeed
11-26-2007, 01:14 PM
Can you port my CD player? I want an input jack for my MiniDisk player. :lol:

If I end up doing a side-mounted SC, I'll be monkeying around with the intake manifold, throttle body, and pretty much everything else. I might even be looking for a spacer. If the SC goes right onto the manifold, I'm gonna be pulling the TB and putting it on the supercharger itself, that'll let me play around with it a little.

definitely, send it over, we could drill a few holes in for you :)