Swapping over to WRX engine at this point in time? POLL! [Archive]

d1giPhux

11-15-2007, 10:18 AM

Okay, So i've been thinking about the WRX swap thing for a bit now, and still have some questions:

1. Would it be better to keep the 5 Speed LGT tranny + New stage 2 clutch in my car with the wrx engine?

I have heard the WRX engines gearing isn't as good as the LGT.. but im not sure. Also, a stage 2 clutch kit will help correct?

Do you think that it will wear out very quickly if i decide to keep my transmission?

2. At this point in time with the economy declining, would It be a bad idea to spend around $5000 on doing this swap?

Would the value of the car increase.. or decrease when i sell it (1999 Subaru legacy GT limited)? Would it be hard to try to get someone to buy a car with a wrx engine?

How likely is the wrx engine to have problems with mileage around 45k? Are they less prone to problems in general than the 2.5 EJ25 DOHC?

Mostly I'm worried about LOSING money on this deal. It would be AWESOME to have a faster car, I just dont want to lose money. $5000 is a lot of money to put into a car that I basically paid $6000 for. Not sure if i should do it or not, but I currently have the option to do so. It will eat up a good majority of my savings, but shouldn't be TOO hard to make back. With the cost of gas, and declining economy.. is it really worth it?

Just trying to get some extra opinions.

Edit: Also.. do you have to use 91 or higher octane? My friend who owns a wrx says he doesnt have to.. he just runs 87 and it works fine..? I thought they were premium.. but he says he doesnt get any engine knocking at all or anything.. so.. im not sure. Would 89 be fine?

Reason

11-15-2007, 12:13 PM

Of course you will loose money from the swap. A car isn't an investment. If you want to make money off a car restore a classic. Your swap car will have no true value. It will be worth what someone is willing to pay. Depending on who does the swap to a car I think people are weary about them.

The LGT can only handle so much. How much you ask? I don't know. Ideally the WRX tranny would be a safer bet, maybe unless you have the gears cryoed. Tossing in a LGT tranny with a stage 2 clutch on a boosted engine would increase the chances of breaking the tranny.

I don't know about your buddy but every car that was around that was boosted needed premium fuel. Maybe for some reason the WRX is a super car and doesn't need it and I'm wrong.

I won't answer you question about reliability. Swapped cars usually have some bugs in them. I never done such a swap so I can't answer it and someone that has should chime in.

deadlydave

11-15-2007, 12:16 PM

2. At this point in time with the economy declining, would It be a bad idea to spend around $5000 on doing this swap?

Would the value of the car increase.. or decrease when i sell it (1999 Subaru legacy GT limited)? Would it be hard to try to get someone to buy a car with a wrx engine?

With the cost of gas, and declining economy.. is it really worth it?

Edit: Also.. do you have to use 91 or higher octane? My friend who owns a wrx says he doesnt have to.. he just runs 87 and it works fine..? I thought they were premium.. but he says he doesnt get any engine knocking at all or anything.. so.. im not sure. Would 89 be fine?

-not a "bad" idea if you can afford more gas of higher octane. If it's your only car, doing it may be a bad idea 'cause you'd have no way to get to work.

-Not a lot of non-tuners would be willing to buy the LGT with the swap. xcentric75 sold his once he pulled off most of the mods.

-The swap will cost you more money in fuel.

-It's hard to believe he runs 87--but if that's what he's running,
I dunno what to think. I have a friend in California that says his WRX hates running on the 91 octane there. Another friend around me had a dealer dump a tank full of 87 in, and it ran like crap.

Cliffsnotes: Might be a fun car, but it'll cost you $$ and you still have a high probability of losing big $$ on your investment.

d1giPhux

11-15-2007, 12:25 PM

Yea, thats what I've been thinking.

Right now may not be a good time to spend $ either because of the way the economy is going.. but my other option is to pay someone to pull my current block apart and help me replace the valves / idler pulleys .. etc.. which would be a lot less cheaper (maybe).. and not so much fun. Anyone have an estimate as to how much that might cost?

The person who would be doing the work would be Andre up in Montreal.. someone recommended him to me.. and I know that he does this all the time. Shitty thing is, I told him to look for an engine for me.. so i would feel a bit bad about telling him that its not cost effective now.. even though it still is.. would be more because of the declining dollar.

I'm not sure HOW my friend runs 87 either.. i've asked him that before.. but he says it just works? Who knows.. maybe there something good about the gas in OK. LOL!

So yea.. still thinking about it I guess. But this is sort of pushing me away from doing it.. mostly because of the reliability issues and not being able to sell the car without pulling it all apart and such. :-?

Edit: Also, if i did the swap.. would the stock suspension feel like crap with the extra power? probably another thing i would have to upgrade. Hmm.

redlegacygt

11-15-2007, 01:32 PM

like i said before, im in the same shoes you are except that im doing the swap. I wasnt going to do it, but i got lucky and a few things fell in place, and i'll have a great friend of mine helping with the swap.. As of tomorrow, i'll have a legacy tranny on my way so hopefully it will be ok for the wrx motor. I decided to swap mine because the wrx motor im getting is the same price as a the used ej25's in my area with alot less miles. Not to mention my wife just got a new car so i have that as my backup. Plus, i'll find a slider car just incase.

pdawg

11-15-2007, 08:23 PM

MCarp22

11-16-2007, 12:22 AM

-The swap will cost you more money in fuel.

It's not a huge difference unless you're in the turbo 24x7. The various turbo subarus actually get about the same mileage as the non-turbos. The difference in cost from regular to premium unleaded (figuring about 500 gallons used) is about $150 over 12000 miles.

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 09:32 AM

The other concern i have is.. if i do get new valves (which my engine probably needs), HG's, idler pulleys and timing belt is will it really be worth it? My EJ25 engine has nearly 150k miles on it.. so the chances that something else are going to break.. seems like it would be more sooner than later.

How much do you think a repair like that would run? Or.. should run.

I have to decide today if i want to do this or not.. ugh. I hate decisions.

So far its looking like:

1. $5300 for complete 04 WRX engine swap (45k miles) w/ new stage 2 clutch, all fluids, custom 3" exhaust, wiring, etc..etc. Risk.. that the engine will die in the future, and its a LOT of money.

2. Fixing the EJ25 (rebuild head, new valves, head gaskets, idler pulleys, timing belt, idler sprocket, etc) - $cost?? I think somewhere around $2000-2500.. I'm going to call around. Risk.. well.. the engine has 150k miles on it.. ?
--------------------------------------------------------
Edit: So I called another subaru place in the area.. and this is what they told me:

$1500 or so + - depending on if 4 valves, or 8 are broken..

-Rebuild head / head gaskets and associated bullshit
-New Idler pulleys / Sprocket Pulley / Adjuster, Timing Belt
-Work

SO.... think I should just have that done? Seems a LITTLE better.. but maybe thas just because I'm assuming I'm still going to be screwed once it gets in there and they decide it needs 'more stuff'. Plus.. what might break next.. water pump? Any other ideas?

SilentRacer

11-16-2007, 09:55 AM

Why don't you just get a new used car? Its about the same price as a swap with none of the problems.

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 09:59 AM

:lol:

Come on.. you are from new england (well kinda).. you know how 'used cars' go around here. Even with $5k.. i doubt i could get anything I want.. and plus, it would be a rust bucket.

this is from my last post:

--------------------------------------------------------
Edit: So I called another subaru place in the area.. and this is what they told me:

$1500 or so + - depending on if 4 valves, or 8 are broken..

-Rebuild head / head gaskets and associated bullshit
-New Idler pulleys / Sprocket Pulley / Adjuster, Timing Belt
-Work

SO.... think I should just have that done? Seems a LITTLE better.. but maybe thas just because I'm assuming I'm still going to be screwed once it gets in there and they decide it needs 'more stuff'. Plus.. what might break next.. water pump? Any other ideas?

Edit: Getting a written quote right now from the subaru stealership.. Should be a little less than what they quote me, because the timing belt cover / timing belt / crank pulley / idler pulleys etc have already been pulled off. How much time do you think that saved? 1hr?

redlegacygt

11-16-2007, 10:57 AM

as far as things going wrong. Its definetly possible no matter what you did. I had my headgaskets replaced along with all the other associated things and it still went. Thats why im not putting any more money into this motor. I'd rather put it into a motor thats newer, lower miles, more fun and might not put me down the same road im at now 5 yrs from now.

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 10:59 AM

^ thats what i've been thinking.. but i suppose the risks associated are probably around the same. I need this car for daily driving. Only thing that sucks about getting this stuff is.. they will do the HG's.. and thats a bit scary.. since ive heard of the head gaskets going bad after they replace them easier. Not sure however. Id really like to get the wrx engine done.. but looking at how the economy is right now.. maybe its just better i save my money.

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 11:18 AM

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/11/quote-1.jpg

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 11:23 AM

So i got the quote as you can see above ^

What the HELL are they charging me $105 for a timing belt? Thats nuts.. anyone have ANY clue why it would be that much? I could buy a brand new one on ebay for less than $50.

If i did go this route.. how could I save myself some money. Also.. can someone help translate wtf some of those parts on that list are?

SilentRacer

11-16-2007, 11:34 AM

You can find a decent one if you look. Such as painting this one http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1382354 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1382354)
I think its a financially better idea than what your about to do.

d1giPhux

11-16-2007, 11:43 AM

No way.. those things are ugly. I love the way my car looks.. and the interior is amazing. I dont think I'd trade it for any other type of Subaru really. No point in buying another junker car either. I dont want to re-register and pay all the fee's.. etc..etc. Good idea tho, just not economical for me to do that.. well not so much economical.. but practical.

Mr. Sociable

11-16-2007, 06:08 PM

I know you have a 99 gt, but I thought this might give some idea of a swaps worth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-Subaru-Legacy-Outback-Wagon-5sp-EJ-20-Swap-NR-LQQK_W0QQitemZ200173111989QQihZ010QQcategoryZ31870QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Might be cheaper to buy this.

No scoop and the stock TMIC? Seems like a bad idea to me.

Anyway, I said do it. You're obivously a subaru enthusiast and everyone loves fast cars ( :twisted: ) . I really think this boils down to if you want it or not. Do you want a unique, quick, and defferent car that you can call your own? Or do you jsut want a car to get you from A to B like any other car could do?

d1giPhux

11-17-2007, 01:10 PM

If I went ahead and did it.. what would you guys recommend.. 2.5" exhaust w/magnaflow, or 3"? I think the 2.5 would probably get better gas mileage / be fine for a stock WRX engine correct? 3" seems like it would be more suited for a bigger turbo / mildly modded engine. Any input on this?

redlegacygt

11-17-2007, 01:34 PM

just go with the basics to start with. I play on just running a 2.5" exhaust with an ebay or borla muffler. The up-pipe and downpipe will prob. just be stock. I want to make sure the motor is running smoothly first before i start adding power pieces. Also, i've never had a turbo/5spd car before, so i want to learn the car first before i do anything stupid.

This is different from you though since a reputable shop is putting yours in. SO i guess you might as well add the pieces while they do it.

d1giPhux

11-17-2007, 03:57 PM

Andre recommended a 2.5" for fuel economy and low end torque. He said the 3" is more for top end and racing and such. So i think i will just go with the 2.5" and i think that will be plenty. Anyone have anymore info on this? Its the same price either way.. with a magnaflow muffler

2.5GT

11-17-2007, 06:02 PM

Are you done with your swap yet? or you wanna talk all day? :grin:

dplacencia

11-17-2007, 06:18 PM

You can also put a used engine for now to get you back and running. :wink:

d1giPhux

11-17-2007, 06:39 PM

^ Yea, or i could just get mine fixed.. but eh.. spending half the cost on a used engine doesnt really seem worth it. Plus.. i was getting sick of how slow the EJ25 was. I will probably continue to talk all day! hahah. :lol:

Also, any info for me on the exhaust?

AJM

11-17-2007, 09:00 PM

The LGT can only handle so much. How much you ask? I don't know. Ideally the WRX tranny would be a safer bet, maybe unless you have the gears cryoed. Tossing in a LGT tranny with a stage 2 clutch on a boosted engine would increase the chances of breaking the tranny.

"5 speed manual -- This is the standard 5 speed manual that subaru puts in most everything. If you have a 5 speed, chances are its built off of this platform. The strength of these transmissions, ive discovered, is all pretty much the same. Different gear ratios, rear end ratios, etc, all make a difference when putting a motorset together, but for the most part they are all the same."-sheepdog

At 150k I'd still weary of any subaru 5 speed.

Mr. Sociable

11-17-2007, 09:32 PM

Lemanschamp

11-18-2007, 12:35 AM

yeah thats a mess of a gearset but that could be saying something about the driver as well. Any tranny can break 2nd gear in the hands of the right (or wrong) driver.

the only real difference between the WRX tranny and the standard tranny in most of our cars is simply the gear ratios. I'd want to get as fresh a tranny as possible, no matter what configuration it was.

redlegacygt

11-20-2007, 09:21 AM

my legacy tranny will actually be here wednesday. I'll just be upgrading the clutch for now. Once it goes i'll end up with PPG's or something else.

d1giPhux

11-20-2007, 12:21 PM

Yea.. if its going to be done.. id just be getting a stage 2 clutch. Still trying to decide if i would want 3" exhaust, or 2.5"? If i want to mod a bit.. would be better to get the 3" right? Thats what most people on the wrx board seem to have. Do you lose torque from 3"? Will it be noticeable?

redlegacygt

11-20-2007, 01:01 PM

i'll prob. do 2.5" for now. Once i get more mods, i'll go 3#. The main factor for me is i have a few friends who do exhaust work, so my cost in exhaust is just parts and beer. :lol:

d1giPhux

11-20-2007, 02:06 PM

Werd.. we'll.. im assuming for me then, it would be better to just get the full 3" exhaust now.. since there is no diff in the price. Anyone have anymore info on this. Does it change the torque at all? Increase or decrease? Top end? Come on guys.. i know someone's gotta know something!

Huffer

11-20-2007, 04:30 PM

3" exhaust for the best compromise between flow and lag.
It's been used for years in the Pacific & Japan. That should tell you something.

d1giPhux

11-20-2007, 08:38 PM

What do you mean by flow and lag.. flow as in exhaust flow, and lag as in turbo lag? It decreases the turbo lag correct? Also.. does it really kill gas mileage even worse than 2.5"? Will it decrease torque? because i happen to like the torque (not that id really notice anyways probably). So far from threads ive read, ive gotten the following:

2.5" vs 3" does not make much of a difference.
2.5" is good for 300-350HP
3.0" is good for 500-600HP
3.0" allows for less turbo lag
2.5" has better torque and gas mileage (from andre)
3.0" has worse gas mileage, less torque, but better top end

Can anyone confirm or deny? How much worse do you think the gas mileage would be? How much torque would I gain / lose with a 3" setup with magnaflow muffler? Also, does magnaflow make a muffler that would with this setup that doesnt look like a damn rice can?

So yea, why SHOULD i or SHOULDNT i get 3.0"? If i decide to do up pipe / down pipe mods later.. will i regret not getting a 3.0"? Thanks guys!

d1giPhux

11-21-2007, 03:31 PM

So.. andre called me up today, and asked me if i wanted to do a 98 v4 Sti engine w/b4 tranny for only $500 more. Hmm.. decisions decisions.

2004 WRX engine (43k miles) + stage 2 clutch in my current tranny

or

1998 V4 JDM Sti Engine (37k miles) + B4 Tranny?

Anyone have input? How would emissions be with the JDM? Which block is stronger? Up/downs of each? Which would last longer? Any info / opinions would be helpful!

SilentRacer

11-21-2007, 05:15 PM

JDM engines can't pass US inspection without you having a way to fool the computer as far as I know.

d1giPhux

11-21-2007, 05:21 PM

Do you know why they wont pass inspections / emissions tho? I was talking to andre and he said it would... so im not sure? Most things i've read said they wont? Anyone have details on this?

Reason

11-21-2007, 05:23 PM

just go USDM engine and be done with it.

SilentRacer

11-21-2007, 05:34 PM

Do you know why they wont pass inspections / emissions tho? I was talking to andre and he said it would... so im not sure? Most things i've read said they wont? Anyone have details on this?

Well technically any engine that didn't come as an option for a vehicle isn't legally suppose to be there. However if your state or inspection station doesn't care enough to look and just looks for CELL on the dashboard, maybe you can pass. I know theres people around here who drive without cats and have an OBDII to clear codes that pass inspections.

shizznats

11-21-2007, 05:50 PM

iirc, the jdm v4 sti engine is a much better motor. i believe it puts out around 260 horsies and is closed deck. double check that but i was doin research on this stuff a while ago so im pretty sure thats right.
... and it comes with a b4 tranny which you'll def need. i like that deal ... but i dont know anything about if itll pass inspection.

d1giPhux

11-21-2007, 06:52 PM

Well here im pretty sure they just check for the CEL light.. but what IM worried about is the obd2 missing from the JDM engines. I dont know if it will pass emissions.. or how they even do emissions here in NH.

The v4 Engines are closed deck engines.. thats why Andre suggested it to me. However.. I'm not sure if i want an older engine or not. The extra HP would be sweet though.

I was reading on this guys page:

http://www.powerlabs.org/jdmsubaru.htm

That he blew his v5 up after a while because he put a larger exhaust on? Or was it because he did a port and polish, and exhaust. I think the only thing that would be going on the car when i get it put in would be a 3" exhaust.. hell.. might even go with the 2.5" just because i dont like the damn rice cans that seem to be associated with the 3".

Hmm.. decisions decisions. I dont want to get it if it wont pass emissions.. or for that matter.. inspection. But here.. i doubt people even know what the engines look like (at the places i go to).. so.. for the CEL checking and such, I'm not too worried about it.

Any more suggestions / comments about this engine?