Couple questions; timing belt and cam seals

[tobin]

I'm at 102k, and about to bring the car in for a new timing belt. I got a couple quotes so far. Both quotes are parts and labor for a 00 LGT; timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and front crank seal. Both are indie shops.

1. $750
2. $875 including going over the entire car top to bottom, scanning ECU, etc, from a Subaru specialist.

These seem kind of high, no? I've had 2 t-belt jobs done before...A honda was about $350, and an Audi was about $1300.

My second question regards the cam seals. Does the timing belt need to come off to replace these? Is a special tool needed? Should I have them done at the same time as the t-belt service? I'd like to save some money if possible. I can do the valve cover gaskets no problem, so I am wondering how much harder it is to do the cam seals while I'm in there. One the Audi, a special tool was needed for the cam tensioner seals.

[legacy92ej22t]

I would just do the whole job yourself. You might have $120 in materials.

I would do the cam seals if you're going to do the crank seal. No, you don't need a special tool, just pop them out with a small flat head screw driver.

If you decide to do the job here's a good tip. When doing the job, loosen the cam gears BEFORE removing the timing belt. This is much easier then trying to loosen them after the fact because unless you have a real good strap wrench it can be a real bugger.

Good luck!

[tobin]

I'll probably try doing the timing belt next time, when the car is past 200k. Right now I can't afford to learn, and have something go horribly wrong. How do these prices look? I know they are a bit on the high side, but are they terrible?

As for the cam seals, how are they related to the crank seal? Can they be done with the timing belt on? How hard is it to change them if I have just the valve covers off? i.e., after the timing belt job, can I tackle the VCG's and cam seals by myself?

[sharky nrk]

here is the deal

cam seal and the crank seal (front main) are very similar except in their locations. Both cannot be done with the timing belt on, you don't have to remove the valve cover gaskets to remove the timing belt or to access the seals. To do one seal is almost identical to do the other, when you remove the timing belt you have to remove the crank pully anyways so the crank seal is right there easy to access. The cam seals on the other hand are not as easy, and for one reason - holding the cam gears to remove them. Leaving the belt on to loosen will help but I have been able to spin the gear inside of the old belt. Also when putting the gears back on you have to hold them to tighten the bolt holding the gear onto the cam.

once the cam gears are off it is a simple pop out and pop in. Be careful not to scratch the mating surfaces of the seals. Then reinstall gears, and your back to a timing belt install. I made myself a tool to hold the cam gears and its not been a problem. I can do a cam seal and timing belt job in just a few hours.

[jey]

I'll probably try doing the timing belt next time, when the car is past 200k. Right now I can't afford to learn, and have something go horribly wrong. How do these prices look? I know they are a bit on the high side, but are they terrible?

If you can't afford to have anything go wrong I'd go to the Subaru specialist or dealer. Those prices are right in line with what I paid for a dealer to service it - I don't think they are too high.

[legacy92ej22t]

At a local Subie shop we have here the same job would probably be under $400 and probably closer to $300 and they specialize in Subaru.

I won't ever take my car to a dealership unless it's under warranty, period. They are crooks. :evil:

About the Cam gear. I've done multiple timing belts on EJ series engines and I've used both strap wrenches to hold the gear (1st time I did it and it was a bitch) as well as doing it the way I described above and the way above is by far easier. If the belt tries to jump, just put more pressure on it.

To reinstall the cam gear just use the old belt, wrap it around the cam and brace it around the crank timing gear and tighten the cam bolt down, no problem.

When doing the timing belt you have to remove the crank pulley but not the crank timing gear, that you need to remove, in addition to the pulley, to do the crank seal. Just for clarification.

[sharky nrk]

At a local Subie shop we have here the same job would probably be under $400 and probably closer to $300 and they specialize in Subaru.

I won't ever take my car to a dealership unless it's under warranty, period. They are crooks. :evil:

About the Cam gear. I've done multiple timing belts on EJ series engines and I've used both strap wrenches to hold the gear (1st time I did it and it was a bitch) as well as doing it the way I described above and the way above is by far easier. If the belt tries to jump, just put more pressure on it.

To reinstall the cam gear just use the old belt, wrap it around the cam and brace it around the crank timing gear and tighten the cam bolt down, no problem.

When doing the timing belt you have to remove the crank pulley but not the crank timing gear, that you need to remove, in addition to the pulley, to do the crank seal. Just for clarification.

well definately give his way a try first as its free, I just built a tool so never tried it past the first time lol. And technically you are correct about the crank timing sprocket, but nothing is holding it on - it just slides off - so I didn't mention it - good eye :wink:

[tobin]

Thank you everyone. Your replies were very helpful.