awd question...

[jrtcbmw]

Ok so im not new to cars but to subaru im new.

I play with bmws and work at a honda dealership as a tech so I know my way around cars.

I got the subaru because one i like them, always wanted one and two it was a 4 cylinder awd car that would be good for back and forth to school, good gas mileage and good in the snow while up at school.

Well its snowing here in PA and well I have awd so I figured id take it out see how it does in the snow and get a feel for the limits of the car.

Come to find out its doesn’t feel right, its driving like a fwd (which I cant stand). Now the car is a 1996 Subaru Legacy L Wagon AWD 2.2liter automatic (paid 500 for the car, would rather have 5 speed), just for reference.

I had someone look as I accelerated and only the front wheels would spin.

Now my question is, is there some special awd split I am missed like 90/10 or 80/20 that auto’s have. I have herd a couple different power splits like 50/50, 60/40, 90/10 or is there just something wrong with the car.

I do not have access to a lift right now but this weekend when I go home to work I will be putting it back on the lift for more parts install and to do some diag on this.

Also has anyone herd anything bad about the drive lines in my car, transfer case issues, rear diff issues anything??

I do know that the transmission is going bad and when it does I plan on getting a 5 speed but would that have any affect on power split??


I kinda hope this is in the right section if not can a mod please move it to right area.

Thank you
--Jason

[decke48]

slipts are 65% front 35% rear for autos. 50 50 for manuals. auto have a computer controlled center diff, it get controled by solenoid C and if thats shot it either bucks around corners (dry conditions) or you have FWD

[DLC]

When the autos get a lot of miles, say 120k, they can start having problems in the way the power is transferred to the rear. It can feel like it's binding, be on and off, or just not work at all.

My old 93 Touring Wagon was a 4EAT and it had the binding problem before the rear section just stopped working. I swapped in a 5MT and that solved it. There are a few electrical things to consider, but it's generally a straightforward swap and well worth the effort for such a good car.

Here's my writeup for the one I did. Yours will be very similar.

http://legacycentral.org/library/transm ... onvert.htm (http://legacycentral.org/library/transmission/convert.htm)

Autos have a 90/10 split most of the time, but that varies. 5MTs are 50/50.

[jrtcbmw]

Ok well the trans hit pretty hard on the 1/2 shift if that makes a difference.

what about rear diff problems would that cause a fwd split?

how much did your swap cost? and do you know if thats the only 5speed swap write ups?

could getting a new trans computer fix this? or doing something with solenoid c? what about a jump or a way to make it 50/50 or something along those lines.

i only ask because i jsut bought the car and put about 350 and 7 hours into so far and have another 150 about to go into it. so money is playing a role in this.

thank you again for the help
Jason

[SilentRacer]

same happens with mine, I'm not sure why.

[jrtcbmw]

sorry about my last post and jumping around. my brain is a little on edge and this happening doesnt help right now.

[decke48]

well you dont want anything to do with soleniod c its in the very back of the trans and you have to disassembly the whole tranny, the computer is very unlikely if it goes bad, it goes in to failsafe and you would only have one gear and reverse. i dont think you could change the split. the hard shifts could be caused by worn clutches, sticky soleniods A&B a bad valve body, bad valve body seal. is the trans fluid a milky white(coolant in the atf), a light pink(overfilled, mixing air into the fluid), or a blackened red(like burnt, slipping clutch) how does it smell?

[jrtcbmw]

well you dont want anything to do with soleniod c its in the very back of the trans and you have to disassembly the whole tranny, the computer is very unlikely if it goes bad, it goes in to failsafe and you would only have one gear and reverse. i dont think you could change the split. the hard shifts could be caused by worn clutches, sticky soleniods A&B a bad valve body, bad valve body seal. is the trans fluid a milky white(coolant in the atf), a light pink(overfilled, mixing air into the fluid), or a blackened red(like burnt, slipping clutch) how does it smell?

i know the trans is going, because of the hard shifting. i changed the oil when i did the pan gasket this past weekend and the fluid was the normal dirty look and a hint of burnt was noticed. but again thats not my main concern UNLESS its has to deal with the having no awd issue.

Jason

[Brockley]

sure its not just the FWD fuse ??? some had that for towing and whatnot... might check that

[jrtcbmw]

sure its not just the FWD fuse ??? some had that for towing and whatnot... might check that

yup checked that, theres no fuse in there.

now grated i was told that there shouldnt be a fuse in there and when checked the wasnt one in there, but i didnt look further into it and didnt see a fuse in the glovebox or fuse box ment for it.

[DLC]

A fuse will force the car into FWD.

Price depends on the price of parts. I did mine in 2002, and many, many people have done it since. It cost me around $2k at the time, but with upgraded parts like clutch and lightweight flywheel. NA parts are far more common and cheaper than turbo ones, though that has changed since the WRX arrived on our shores.

If you can find a donor car, something that's non-running, you can do it for really cheap. There are a few writeups on Legacy Central from the older models, but the newer ones are nearly identical.

There's no way to get around it; Either crack the center diff and replace the duty solenoid C, replace the whole case, or swap out.

With an old 4EAT, you might as well get something more reliable in a 5MT, with better gas mileage and more power going to your wheels. Better power distribution too, and don't forget that it's funner to drive.

[jrtcbmw]

A fuse will force the car into FWD.

Price depends on the price of parts. I did mine in 2002, and many, many people have done it since. It cost me around $2k at the time, but with upgraded parts like clutch and lightweight flywheel. NA parts are far more common and cheaper than turbo ones, though that has changed since the WRX arrived on our shores.

If you can find a donor car, something that's non-running, you can do it for really cheap. There are a few writeups on Legacy Central from the older models, but the newer ones are nearly identical.

There's no way to get around it; Either crack the center diff and replace the duty solenoid C, replace the whole case, or swap out.

With an old 4EAT, you might as well get something more reliable in a 5MT, with better gas mileage and more power going to your wheels. Better power distribution too, and don't forget that it's funner to drive.

Thats what i thought about the fuse.

does anything have an update on the price for theses cars?

about replacing it i was kinda hoping to get around that for a bit but it seems to be the fix at least until i can get it up on the lift at work and check it out.

does anyone have a part number list or a detailed list of parts for the swap? also is all subaru parts swapable or what is and what isnts swapable.

Jason

[deadlydave]

the auto's have a 50-50 torque split in 1st and 2nd 'gear'. After that, at certain speeds, the drivtrain switches to 90/10 front-rear.

Have you checked the transmission fluid? You have a '96--is it a front-wheel drive model? I thought subaru sold FWD's along side their until 97 here in the states. THAT might explain the problem.

[jrtcbmw]

the auto's have a 50-50 torque split in 1st and 2nd 'gear'. After that, at certain speeds, the drivtrain switches to 90/10 front-rear.

Have you checked the transmission fluid? You have a '96--is it a front-wheel drive model? I thought subaru sold FWD's along side their until 97 here in the states. THAT might explain the problem.

Yes i have check the fluid, in fact i mention that i changed it this past weekend when i replaced the transmission pan gasket.

Also mentioned was the fact that the vehicle is a 1996 subaru legacy L wagon awd model (biggest thing that gives it away is the sticker on the back and differential and rear cv shafts), so No this is not a FWD model.

Jason

[DLC]

I don't have any comprehensive list handy, but it could be found.

Subarus are very lego-like in that almost any car can take drivetrain parts from another and make it work. You could put in any 5MT, from a 1990 Legacy to a 2004, any Impreza, any Forester, because they're all similar or identical.

The best idea would be a parts car, so you have everything needed.

Josh at Surrealimage did a swap into his 90, but he also went from an NA FWD to a turbo AWD, which was a hugely complicated swap.

[jrtcbmw]

I don't have any comprehensive list handy, but it could be found.

Subarus are very lego-like in that almost any car can take drivetrain parts from another and make it work. You could put in any 5MT, from a 1990 Legacy to a 2004, any Impreza, any Forester, because they're all similar or identical.

The best idea would be a parts car, so you have everything needed.

Josh at Surrealimage did a swap into his 90, but he also went from an NA FWD to a turbo AWD, which was a hugely complicated swap.

Yeah thats what i figured, its kinda sorta like the e30/e36/e46 bmws.

acutally i might have found a parts car and if i do the swap i would look for a parts car.

thank you

Jason

[deadlydave]

Check for siezed or partially siezed calipers? I had a really odd issue with my old legacy as a result of that.

[jrtcbmw]

Check for siezed or partially siezed calipers? I had a really odd issue with my old legacy as a result of that.

The brakes are all new, just replaced them this past weekend. and how would that affect not having the rear wheels getting power?

[jrtcbmw]

Ok guys update time.

Got the car on the lift at work today but didn’t have too much time to do some diag had other things to attend to (plugs, wires, balljoint, starter, belts, rear diff fluid change) and got caught up on a customers cars.

So here’s where I'm at.

I verified that the rear wheels don’t spin with NO resistance (car off the ground), verified that it isn’t the rear diff (changed the fluid and no broken parts), check the computer and no codes, trans fluid new at full (already done that last week), by putting the fuse in the FWD holder light comes on and only front wheel work, verified that it isn’t solenoid “C” because the failure mode is to full line pressure and power is to go to the rear wheels.

That’s about as far as I got, I pulled up about 55 some pages from ShopKey on the troubleshooting and started with some of that (most of what I did)

While checking something else wrong with the car I think, I was checking the fuses under the dash and noticed on the side by the center console there is 4 connectors, not connected. Now 2 of them are no where near each and are multi point connectors and I think it’s a universal harness so for a car with more options you just plug in but the other 2 were right next to each, it’s a single wire connector and its green and they fit together. It’s not connected right now and when it is the CEL flashes, at that point I didn’t want to do any damage and it was getting late so I disconnected and went home. Question is what is that connector used for, and is it always unplugged? I would post a photo of what I’m talking about but I have a problem and that is my camera is up at school and I’m not up at school. Sorry.

Jason

[decke48]

the little green connector is for self diagnostics will flash codes if you do the correct postions with the gear selector. its weird its like 1st key acc. drive key on 2nd key acc park key on.(ive only done it on obd 1 subarus) if you have alldata or something you can look it up. i dont know if its changed for obd 2. it shows engine and tran codes.

[jrtcbmw]

the little green connector is for self diagnostics will flash codes if you do the correct postions with the gear selector. its weird its like 1st key acc. drive key on 2nd key acc park key on.(ive only done it on obd 1 subarus) if you have alldata or something you can look it up. i dont know if its changed for obd 2. it shows engine and tran codes.

thats good to know, but question about that. i connected it with the car on and it was flashing in no spacific order. i connected it again and put it the 2nd key acc and it flashed again with no spacific order and a whole bunch of shit went on and off in the engine bay. Ill have to take a look on shopkey when i get to work tomorrow.

Jason

[decke48]

if it flashes 2 pause 2 and so on it means no codes

[jrtcbmw]

umm ill check tomorrow, but i remember it flashing like a miss fire CEL (just flashed at the same pace the whole time)

now i did have the scanner hooked up and it said no codes.

[jrtcbmw]

ok so for right now my head hurts to much to think about.

what size fuse is recommended for the fwd socket? it doesnt say.

Jason

[decke48]

i think its 10amps. i believe it says in the owners manual.

[Reason]

Mine had a 15 amp fuse