View Full Version : About time to do brakes...
It's about time for me to address braking... I've always gone by the theory you gotta have the slow before you get the go... I've addressed suspension, wheels and tires, it's now time for the brakes to get some love. Let's face it, the STi brembos and 2/4 pot from the 06+ would be nice, but they just aren't economical or practical for a daily driver that won't likely see any track time. So, that puts me into the place I'm at. I have the 2003 Special Edition L wagon. Don't really know what would be an upgrade as far as other models, so I just went to tire rack and started with what I know I have. Put brembo blanks front and rear in my cart, ATE premium One pads, and a goodridge line kit... well come to find out it would be coming from 4 different warehouse locations and they were gonna be charging me almost 150 dollars in shipping... needless to say they didn't even lube me up before trying to put it to me... F that... soooooo, I'm now looking for advice... what is an economical upgrade as far as maybe from a GT model, 2.5 RS, WRX, etc... I really don't know. If what I have is sufficient for my needs, what is a good vendor and/or location to order what I need and not have to get it from 4 different warehouses and take a hosing on shipping...
kyle86na
03-07-2008, 11:33 AM
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... kemath.xls (http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/techinfo/brakemath.xls)
Came from this link
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=30989
awesome information for your stock brake'd Subies, looking to upgrade to OEM bigger brakes
In the spread sheet there is a tab that will allow you to select your current brake set up, and then select what you want, it will tell you what is stronger... Really useful info...
Huffer
03-07-2008, 11:35 AM
Do you have the H6 brakes on the rear? that would be an ideal upgrade for you.
Fronts:
Hawk HPS pads + Superblue fluid
Goodridge stainless brakelines all round
That's all you'd need.
I have whatever came stock on it... so I have no clue if I have h6 brakes... they are about the same size as the front which surprised me when I first noticed. How would I know for sure?
Reason
03-07-2008, 02:00 PM
I have whatever came stock on it... so I have no clue if I have h6 brakes... they are about the same size as the front which surprised me when I first noticed. How would I know for sure?
Chances are you don't have them.
dodik
03-07-2008, 02:11 PM
i have an H6 and i dont even have them, its almost time for me to do brakes also, im just gonna buy 4 new d & s rotors from ebay and get good pads i personally like EBC a lot of people don't like them for whatever reasons, and probably get a set of ss brake lines. that should give me little bit more predictablity when it comes to braking
The 00-02.5 GTs came with 98-01 2.5 RS-sized front calipers and the same big 11.3" rear rotors as the H6.
According to Cars101, the 03 had the same front brakes as the GT in the earlier years (while the GT got WRX-sized fronts), but the rears are the same 11.3" size.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2003.html
Your rear rotors are larger in diameter than the fronts. It is weird, and I'm not sure why they did this, but hey, no reason to complain.
StatGSR
03-07-2008, 02:17 PM
id go with techna-fit lines, they are good quality and have a clear coating over the line to prevent damage to them, something that to my knowledge goodridge lines do not have. i belive reason can get em for ya too.
The 00-02.5 GTs came with 98-01 2.5 RS-sized front calipers and the same big 11.3" rear rotors as the H6.
According to Cars101, the 03 had the same front brakes as the GT in the earlier years (while the GT got WRX-sized fronts), but the rears are the same 11.3" size.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2003.html
Your rear rotors are larger in diameter than the fronts. It is weird, and I'm not sure why they did this, but hey, no reason to complain.
thanks, that link was extremely helpful... so I need to upgrade my fronts to a GT caliper and 11.4 inch blank rotors and probably just leave my rear alone caliper wise with new rotors and then new pads and lines...
Huffer
03-07-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm thinking brake bias here...
Seriously, before buying bigger fronts, just try new pads and fluid. You might find that's all you need.
I don't NEED anything persay, my pads and rotors I have now were new when I bought the car, they are just not the best of quality from what I can tell and I don't feel confident with them. This is the first car I've ever owned where the rear brakes were as big, actually larger come to find out, than the front brakes... according to the brake torque calculator that was posted up from here, swapping to larger GT brakes with performance street pads would increase brake torque by 30% and move the bias 10% to the front from where it's at now... that's if I have H6 rears which are the only option it gives for 00-04 legacies. I would also run performance street pads on the rear and it would increase it's braking torque by 21% or so...
Your calipers don't need to be changed, afaik. When I upgraded first to 11.4" fronts the calipers were identical.
You need the caliper brackets and rotors, then either a set of OE pads or something aftermarket.
I'm running 05 Legacy GT 12.3" fronts right now and I have no concerns about brake bias. I've been up and down and back and forth on many a road, with some near-panic stops and have never once felt the rear of the car get twitchy.
I'm assuming the caliper bracket would be a dealer item, but still cheaper than buying new calipers... sounds like a plan to me... hey, you upgraded... you by chance still have your stock GT caliper brackets DLC or did you have to use them with the 05 stuff?
The 00-02.5 had the same size brakes as yours. I'm pretty sure I tossed all my stock stuff.
I think the 11.4" brackets are $65/per from a dealer, though you might be able to get them cheaper from one of the numerous online places.
I'm trying to DOWNSIZE to 11.4" from my 12.3" ones. The difference in rotor weight alone is 6-8lbs PER SIDE (don't have the pictures I took handy). My car doesn't need these monsters and I'm looking for better acceleration and fuel consumption, so the 11.4" fits my needs squarely.
If you want to see a few contrasting pictures, these are my 11.4" vs 12.3":
http://gallery.legacycentral.org/v/DLC/ ... LGTBrakes/ (http://gallery.legacycentral.org/v/DLC/00GT/Mods/brakes/LGTBrakes/)
..and some less interesting ones from my original stock (10.7") to 11.4":
http://gallery.legacycentral.org/v/DLC/ ... s/WRX_one/ (http://gallery.legacycentral.org/v/DLC/00GT/Mods/brakes/WRX_one/)
yeah, I'd do the 12.3 ones but then i wouldn't be able to run my 16 inch stockers in the winter I don't think. I'm going to see what I can find as far as 11.4 brackets are concerned. Thanks for your help, i really appreciate it.
Reason
03-07-2008, 05:15 PM
id go with techna-fit lines, they are good quality and have a clear coating over the line to prevent damage to them, something that to my knowledge goodridge lines do not have. i belive reason can get em for ya too.
Yea I can get them, they do have the coating and so does Goodridge (I had them) next time I'll get Techna-fit because they look as good as the goodridge for a better price.
I'm not stuck on goodridge, that is just what tirerack had... I'll go with best quality at the lowest price...
Seriously, before buying bigger fronts, just try new pads and fluid. You might find that's all you need.
Yeah, you'd be surprised how far that alone will go. Especially if Carbotech has something for your stock brake setup. I had to go with Axxis Ultimates and with ATE Typ 200 fluid it's definitely good enough for track days and autocrosses.
Looks like I'll probably just be upgrading to the 11.4 inch front rotors and getting a quality pad/fluid combo and probably some new cryogenic treated blank rotors.
sharky nrk
03-08-2008, 07:28 PM
Seriously, before buying bigger fronts, just try new pads and fluid. You might find that's all you need.
Yeah, you'd be surprised how far that alone will go. Especially if Carbotech has something for your stock brake setup. I had to go with Axxis Ultimates and with ATE Typ 200 fluid it's definitely good enough for track days and autocrosses.
I found ultimates to be absolutely unacceptable for track days, even with good ducting
I found ultimates to be absolutely unacceptable for track days, even with good ducting
Well that just means I wasn't driving fast enough then :) This was back when I had 135hp :lol:
I found ultimates to be absolutely unacceptable for track days, even with good ducting
how do they perform for a daily? dust level? braking performance on a street level? I'm looking for suggestions as I've never been down this path with a subaru. I'd just get some porterfields and call it a day like I do most of the time, but I think that's a little overkill for this car.
sharky nrk
03-09-2008, 08:45 PM
they do dust alot, but they do perform really quite well for hard street/autox/very mild track use - I have no sqeeks, squeels, or other issues - just dust. Good initial bite, deal ok with heat - just can't stand up to track use (I still use ultimates at DD pads and just switch to dedicated track pads for HPDEs)
Reason
03-09-2008, 11:25 PM
Hawk HPS ftw
I'm looking for something with minimal dust, yet better than average performance... I'm not worried about track performance, this car will never see that.
Reason
03-10-2008, 08:13 AM
I'm looking for something with minimal dust, yet better than average performance... I'm not worried about track performance, this car will never see that.
Hawk HPS then, I used to use CARBOtech Bobcats and they dusted like a bitch. The Hawk HPS are great, very low dust and great performance.
deadlydave
03-10-2008, 08:32 AM
I'm looking for something with minimal dust, yet better than average performance... I'm not worried about track performance, this car will never see that.
EBC Greenstuffs may be a good choice too. I dd'ed and autocrossed my old legacy on them, and they didn't dust at all. Of course, it's kinda hard to see dust on gunmetal wheels too.
You could always look into cobalt friction, but they are apparently crazy loud and dust a lot.
rougeben83
03-10-2008, 03:32 PM
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=5 ... ight=axxis (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=5478&highlight=axxis)
Axxis Deluxe = good DD pad if you don't mind the prodigious amount of dust
Greenstuff = needs to be warmed up quite a bit before they get working, especially in sub-freezing temps, modulation isn't what I'd like
Hawk HPS = sort of in between the two above, lack of initial bite like the Deluxe, not as much dusting, needs to be heated up as well, but not anywhere as much as the EBC's.
None of the above are track pads. Autox/rallyx is ok.
I'll make a thread once I try out the Porterfield R4's at a track day or something...
I can tell you about the porterfields... I ran several different porterfield setups on my nissans for the track... greatly pleased on all account. I was one of the first to have the custom made porterfield ebrake shoes for Z32 rears on an s chassis...
deadlydave
03-10-2008, 10:03 PM
I didn't seem to have a warmup problem with the greenstuffs, even through the end of a utica winter. I'm going hardcore on the Baja, either cobalt frictions screamin' loud pads or EBC redstuffs. I have an extra set of rotors lying around anyway.
Reason
03-10-2008, 10:10 PM
I never had sound issues or warm up problems with Hawk HPS.
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