Full BE STi suspension, need help/opinions

[Mr. Sociable]

So I'm researching my various suspension options for my car and am thinking the STi suspension is the right setup because the drop is fairly mild (~1" all around). Below is the info for the springs/dampers:

Struts -
http://www.tuningspec.com/images/performance/01126_x.jpg

> Adjustable Type (4-Level / kgf): (F) 270/134 ~ 355/156, (R) 114/36 ~ 145/44



Springs -
http://www.tuningspec.com/images/performance/00808_x.jpg

> Spring Rate: (F) 30.5N/mm, (R) 49.0N/mm
> Vehicle Height: -25mm (Approx)



First off, someone help me read the adjustable numbers for the struts ( :oops: ). How much of a difference from stock is this? I can't find stock LGT rates for a BE and I'm really not looking for a bone jarring ride. I also like the fact that they're made by STi, and should therefore be good quality.

Are the Bilstein struts a better option?

[blackgtbeauty]

Bilstein's are not bone jarring. I also think maybe that those STi struts are made by Bilstein, as the BD ones talked about a short time ago were.

[Huffer]

Bilstein made the STi struts for the BE.

[Airgne]

i found a set of blistens today for $250.00. as for me i would go for coilovers by JIC. they are good, and not bone garing as you say.

[Mr. Sociable]

Bilstein made the STi struts for the BE.


Good to know. Now, can anyone tell me if those spring rates belong to USDM or JDM STi springs? I know they were different.

[blackgtbeauty]

Bilstein made the STi struts for the BE.


Good to know. Now, can anyone tell me if those spring rates belong to USDM or JDM STi springs? I know they were different.

How would there be rates for USDM STi one?

Wouldn't there only be JDM/EDM? or did they have them available aftermarket in the US?

[Mr. Sociable]

From what I've read, USDM STi Pink springs (avliable through your local Subaru dealer in the STi parts catalog) have a slightly softer spring rates then true JDM Pink springs. As for EDM I have no idea.

[Airgne]

just go with some coilovers, then you will be able to put more meat in your wheel wells.

[Wiscon_Mark]

just go with some coilovers, then you will be able to put more meat in your wheel wells.

Yeah, they're only twice as expensive.

[Airgne]

you can find them for not so expensive prices. how much is a full sti sus cost?

[rougeben83]

you can find them for not so expensive prices. how much is a full sti sus cost?

Around $1400+shipping from Japan.

[Airgne]

for 600 more you get brand new JIC coilovers 15 way adj and adj dampers. also more meat could be put under the wheel well.

[dodik]

just go with some coilovers, then you will be able to put more meat in your wheel wells.

depending on where you live you might as well also consider putting more meat on your a$$. i had coilovers in NYC and its basically same thing as if i had my suspension frozen or weleded shut. i felt every tiny little bump and there is like 1 per each foot of pavement around here. Unless your car will see track or you have perfect roads where you live there is no way i would ever recommend getting coilovers. just my opinion.

[DOOK]

just go with some coilovers, then you will be able to put more meat in your wheel wells.

depending on where you live you might as well also consider putting more meat on your a$$. i had coilovers in NYC and its basically same thing as if i had my suspension frozen or weleded shut. i felt every tiny little bump and there is like 1 per each foot of pavement around here. Unless your car will see track or you have perfect roads where you live there is no way i would ever recommend getting coilovers. just my opinion.

really depends on the coilover as well. you get what you pay for. I live in west virginia and it's pretty well known we have the worst roads in the country ( literally, they did a study and our roads are the worst) anyways, I have Tein Flex and keep the dampening on low and it's no worse than the stock suspension was. Now, when I had a cheapy set of D2s on one of my nissans it was painful riding on the streets. Knocked the piss out of my kidneys every day.

[Mr. Sociable]

Everyone read this page:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html



At any rate, based off of all the research I've done (and some helpful folk on AWDPirates) every set of coilovers under $2000+ are not worth the money as the gains are negligible over a good spring/strut setup. Additionally, this car is driven daily, I don't need 275 wide tires on it or anything. At most, an 8" wide wheel sometime in the future.


Back on topic, these struts are apparently NOT made by Bilstein, they are rebranded KYB AGX's and are therefore not worth the money (to me at least). I'm thinking when I replace my suspension it will be with either JDM STi springs (as pictured) or a set of H&R springs. My worry is that the STi springs will be too low for me. This brings total cost to ~$800 total which is reasonable and it will be a great preforming setup.

[Mr. Sociable]

Also, here's a helpful post that I recieved on my local forum:


Mr. Sociable, I apologize for not getting back to you. I must admit that I've been stupid busy with school.

I think I can answer all the pertinent questions posed here.

Bilstein struts are arguably the highest quality struts available for the BE/BH chassis. They have high damping mechanisms with separate rebound and compression mechanisms and other features like "floating dividing pistons" which in my opinion, result in an amazing ride quality over all types of terrain, while maintaining a "sporty" feel. Something that cannot be said about most coilovers designed for this chassis, all of which seem to be from the JDM market.

The B4 bilstein struts have the same length as stock struts, but the B4 springs do offer ~10mm lowering. Ride feel is improved because of the bilstein struts and a moderate upgrade in spring rates. I had pink STI B4 springs on my car for a while and they were too low for my tastes, but the ride was still comfortable.

H&R springs are likely the best aftermarket spring for our platform. Several guys are running the wagon version on sedans with very even ride height, reasonable drop, and good comfort levels using KYB GR2 struts. They may be uncomfortable on stock struts which are poorly and softly valved. I have a set of these waiting to be installed on my bilsteins :D

I am 95% certain that the pink struts pictured are made by KYB. Their piston size, style of piston seal, and overall design is identical to that used by KYB. I believe that they are re-branded KYB AGX, and as such, not worth the cost of import from Japan.

The spring rates for the STI pink legacy springs pictured are 170.8 front and 274.4 lbs/in rear (multi-link rear suspension has a higher leverage ratio than macpherson strut designs). They are the springs that I had on my BE which resulted in a significant drop in ride height from stock, likely greater than 1".

My advice is to pick up a set of B4 bilsteins from these guys: http://www.5mileimports.com/. They have very reasonable prices and shipping cost to the US. They also have very good customer service and a few nasioc Legacy owners have had good luck with them. I don't believe that there is any reason to bother with KYB GR2 unless you are strapped for cash and coilovers unless you are going to be doing auto-x or track days.

[pdawg]

For what its worth I love my Bilsteins.

[rougeben83]

Also, here's a helpful post that I recieved on my local forum:

[quote="critical-motion":dzkw9752]Mr. Sociable, I apologize for not getting back to you. I must admit that I've been stupid busy with school.

I think I can answer all the pertinent questions posed here.

Bilstein struts are arguably the highest quality struts available for the BE/BH chassis. They have high damping mechanisms with separate rebound and compression mechanisms and other features like "floating dividing pistons" which in my opinion, result in an amazing ride quality over all types of terrain, while maintaining a "sporty" feel. Something that cannot be said about most coilovers designed for this chassis, all of which seem to be from the JDM market.

The B4 bilstein struts have the same length as stock struts, but the B4 springs do offer ~10mm lowering. Ride feel is improved because of the bilstein struts and a moderate upgrade in spring rates. I had pink STI B4 springs on my car for a while and they were too low for my tastes, but the ride was still comfortable.

H&R springs are likely the best aftermarket spring for our platform. Several guys are running the wagon version on sedans with very even ride height, reasonable drop, and good comfort levels using KYB GR2 struts. They may be uncomfortable on stock struts which are poorly and softly valved. I have a set of these waiting to be installed on my bilsteins :D

I am 95% certain that the pink struts pictured are made by KYB. Their piston size, style of piston seal, and overall design is identical to that used by KYB. I believe that they are re-branded KYB AGX, and as such, not worth the cost of import from Japan.

The spring rates for the STI pink legacy springs pictured are 170.8 front and 274.4 lbs/in rear (multi-link rear suspension has a higher leverage ratio than macpherson strut designs). They are the springs that I had on my BE which resulted in a significant drop in ride height from stock, likely greater than 1".

My advice is to pick up a set of B4 bilsteins from these guys: http://www.5mileimports.com/. They have very reasonable prices and shipping cost to the US. They also have very good customer service and a few nasioc Legacy owners have had good luck with them. I don't believe that there is any reason to bother with KYB GR2 unless you are strapped for cash and coilovers unless you are going to be doing auto-x or track days.[/quote:dzkw9752]

Well going by the pic in the OP, those are indeed not like the Bilsteins on the B4...the front one uses a monotube shock with the sliding piston being almost the same diameter as the entire body itself.

FWIW KYB offers some other adjustable shock options for the BE/BH platform. They were colored purple and have the adjustment knob on the body, not at the top like the AGX's...I think they were 8-way adjustable.

Also, take into account that any lowering spring for the B4 will need to add the lowering from the B4 vs. USDM legacy as well (around 10-15mm). That's what put me off about some of the spring choices from japan, they would put me too low for what I was looking for. I just used the stock B4 springs - slightly stiffer rate but not so aggressive with the lowering.

Edit: here you go : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... graham+kyb (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1141632&highlight=graham+kyb)

[Airgne]

whoever told you that a coilover for under 2g is a cheap crapy and not worth it is very wrong. you can get a set of Buddy Club coilovers for a BE for around 1100、or a set of Blades(a newer company trying to earn there keep) for around 900. its is all about how you set up your sus. i could make my coilovers feel like a caddy when i had my wife and kids in the car, than when i would go griping the car would not move for anything. i was just trying to say if your going to spend 1400 on sti sus why not save up and get coilovers.

[rougeben83]

whoever told you that a coilover for under 2g is a cheap crapy and not worth it is very wrong. you can get a set of Buddy Club coilovers for a BE for around 1100、or a set of Blades(a newer company trying to earn there keep) for around 900. its is all about how you set up your sus. i could make my coilovers feel like a caddy when i had my wife and kids in the car, than when i would go griping the car would not move for anything. i was just trying to say if your going to spend 1400 on sti sus why not save up and get coilovers.

Hmm, I've seen those buddy club coilovers for the BE's in the US (so far I only know one place that sells them)...but I don't know too much about them. Can you get more info on them?

[blackgtbeauty]

For what its worth I love my Bilsteins.

+1

[Airgne]

http://buddyclub.us/
for more info on the buddy clubs. the price for those is in the us. in japan they are known as junior spec dampers(just a diff name). they range in japan from 900-1200. im lucky because i have family in japan were i can get them at these prices.

[rougeben83]

http://buddyclub.us/
for more info on the buddy clubs. the price for those is in the us. in japan they are known as junior spec dampers(just a diff name). they range in japan from 900-1200. im lucky because i have family in japan were i can get them at these prices. Any personal experience with them? I see more Nissans using these than Subaru's...just wondering their reliability, quality, etc.

[Airgne]

i like the buddy clubs, but im like JIC coilovers better. that is just my personal pref. i had 2 sets of buddy clubs. ride was great. respones was great. all around great coilover. once agin i like JIC more.

[Airgne]

i just found bilsteins with sti springs for a be for about 150. if intrested.

[Mr. Sociable]

First off, please read the link I posted about damping and various shock options. In his research (and he is a national auto-x champion) many brands, and esp. Japansese brands have terrible valving/adjustments/etc. I'm not saying this is the end all-be-all of info, but it gives me some pause. Also, all I hear about cheap coilovers is that they are much much too stiff on any setting. Keep in mind I'm not looking for an all out setup, just somthing with a mild uprate in spring rates and dampening and rebound.



i just found bilsteins with sti springs for a be for about 150. if intrested.


On this...where can I find these? Link? Pictures? Mileage on them? USDM or JDM springs?

[Airgne]

all i,m saying about coilovers is that you have alot more opions. also i have had no problems with coilovers. only problems i have had are the ones that i spens 100 on as a temp fix, but hey i know they were going to go. only needed them to last a couple of months. here is the link for the bilsteins and sti. http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/110535619

[Airgne]

oh yeah 25000km on the.

[Mr. Sociable]

All I see are little squares. :lol:

[Airgne]

its in japanese. you see squares because your comp doesnt have the language for jap on it. do you see the pics at least?

[Huffer]

Bilstein must have been opted out at some point during the BE lifecycle then... I HAVE seen Bilstein STi-spec struts on an RSK.
Oh well...

[rougeben83]

Bilstein doesn't make a lot of adjustable struts and shocks though. They prefer to have calibrate the valving for every specific application...I guess it's just the way they do things.

[Mr. Sociable]

Yeah I can see the pics. Since its a Japanese auction wouldn't I need to use a Japanese company to buy/ship it to me? How can I translate it?

[gryffinwings]

I've got Bilsteins on my 2001 Outback from the Legacy GT-B, I'll tell you those are really nice, handling is really really good, and it's not bone jarring at all, very smooth. Definitely worth getting.

[Airgne]

if you have paypal you can get them. i have a log on with yahoo japan, so i would be able to buy them for you. let me know.

[blackgtbeauty]

Yeah I can see the pics. Since its a Japanese auction wouldn't I need to use a Japanese company to buy/ship it to me? How can I translate it?

Search Rinkya.

[Airgne]

rinkiya is the samething. you still need someone with a japanese logon to buy.

[Mr. Sociable]

PM me with a translation (babelfish isn't working...) of the auction and maybe we can talk.

[DOOK]

Tein Flex are around 1600 shipped to your door and are a competition coilover... don't know how anyone can say they are crap. especially when ALL flex series for BE/BH are special ordered from japan with japanese valving... better than the USDM valving on all other Tein Models. I PERSONALLY run them on my daily driver and they are no more harsh than the stock suspension. Also, because they have dual height adjustability you can adjust your ride height without changing your spring rate at all with the bottom perch.

EDIT: If the autoX champ you are getting information from is used to running dampers like Moton or Penske or something of the sort then no mass produced coilover is going to be up to snuff in their opinion just keep that in mind. For those of us who daily drive and occasionally weekend warrior our cars most of the coilovers on the market will do us just fine as long as you stay away from the cheap Taiwanese rebranded dampers like Ksport and Megan etc... a buddy club, tein, JIC, Stance, etc will be just fine. Keep in mind also that if the spring rate that comes ona coilover ins't to your liking companies like swift can make you custom length springs in just about any rate you want, assuming it will fall within tolerances with your dampers valving.

[Huffer]

I'd really love to see some comparo shock dynos on a set of TEINs. That would justify both arguments.

[DOOK]

I know... I was never a Tein fan before now, and may never be again, but i know that at least the Flex series for 00-04 Legacy are good stuff. Had Stance made the GR+ Pro for our application I would have gone with them, but they don't. It was between JIC, BeeR, Cusco, and CST when i got mine. With none of those being serviceable in the united states it was an easy decision for me to make.

[Airgne]

JIC is servicable in the state.

[DOOK]

JIC is servicable in the state.

When i made my purchase was when JIC was on the verge of going under... they have since made a rebound apparently... at least that is what i was told by a vendor. I personally found it hard to believe myself, but if a vendor doesn't want to sell me a product saying that particular line is about to go under, who am I to argue with them haha... anyways, tein is what I ended up going with.

technically speaking any coilover is serviceable in the US if you can find someone willing to do it. most motocross bike and ATV shops can rebuild just about anything, finding one willing to do so for cheaper than just buying a new set of coilovers may be another story.

[Airgne]

true. also i dont know who told you JIC was about to go under, but that guy was lying threw his tooth. i dont know how long ago you bought your teins was. ill tell you some about JIC they have been in the japanese D1 compatitions for many years and have never talk about going under. i have also owned stock in JIC. one more thing is that you can go on JIC website and buy strickly the mono shock for you coilover rebuild.

http://www.jic-magic.com/

im not trying to be a ass or anythign. sorry if im coming across as one.

[sansMYSTi]

Bilsteins FTW!