New turbo, fuel?

[Ante_J]

I have found a TD05 with a 90 degres inlet fitting my Legacy and im thinking of buying it but i have a bunch of questions...

Is this a good ide? Can someone make a list of "need to do" improvements that i have to do if i switch turbos?

As i see it, one of the biggest problems is manage the fuel and timing, is there any easy ways to do it? I don`t have any Subaru-tuners within 600km range :cry:
And the intercooler, how do i solve this problem, is the oem water/air intercooler anygood at all?
FMIC a must?

The engine/drivetrain is almost untouched besides exhaust, airbox and coffemug mods.

I hope someone can help me!
Best regards / Andreas

ps. sorry about any miss-spellings :)

[Huffer]

Just bolt it on. TD05's come stock on the 96-2000 WRX sedans.

Water/Air IC's are actually better for daily driving... a lot of the new STi owners are reverting back to an enclosed IC unit, instead of going FMIC or bigger TMIC.

Your stock ECU should be able to handle it, maybe you should buy a boost controller and consider refurbishing/replacing the wastegate.

[scottzg]

which td-05?

[Ante_J]

I have a Daves Device boost controller, works just fine, running 1.1-1.2bar now with stock turbo.
By the way, anyone know what "maximum" boost my stock turbo can perform with EGT within the limits (on stock IC)?

Hm, stock ecu handling bigger turbo? It might work as you say but i would very much like something to controle the fuel and timing so i can sleep at night :-)
Any good tips of a fuel-computer that is suitable?

Does anyone have any good tips on improving the stock intercooler? A bigger water cooler and a extra waterpump, anyone tried some mods that is working?

Scottzg: It`s a stock Impreza WRX/GT MY96 as far as i know, do you know if it is a 16G?

[legacy92ej22t]

The 93-96 wrx/sti had the 16G.

I run a 16G on my USDM Legacy turbo and it works very well. My buddy is running a 16G with the same AWIC setup that you have stock and it performs well too.

I'm running OEM engine management and it handles the 16G quite well but I really need SEM and bigger injectors to really take full advantage of what the 16G has to offer.

You should join over at the LibertyRS site. http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/index.php
These guys will be much more familiar with your setup then most of us here because the USDM market got a different car then you.

You could probably pick up a possum link ECU or something similar and some 550cc injectors. The Liberty guys will know what you can run for sure though.

[Ante_J]

Sounds great!
I have just registred at the Libertyclub!

Is it "easy" to hook up a Possum-link or any other ECU to the Legacy?
And how hard is it to map the possum-link, major risk of blowing the engine to pieces? :)

[legacy92ej22t]

I have no idea. I don't know of anyone running the Possum-Link here in the states but I think a few of the Liberty guys are, so they should know.

Tuning is very touchy, it's best to let someone that really knows their stuff do it. You might be able to get a premapped version if you match mods with someone that's selling their unit.

Hooking up a piggyback ECU shouldn't be too hard as long as you have some soldering skills.

[Huffer]

Is it "easy" to hook up a Possum-link or any other ECU to the Legacy?
And how hard is it to map the possum-link, major risk of blowing the engine to pieces? :)

www.clubsub.org.nz (http://www.clubsub.org.nz)

or www.diyms.org.nz (http://www.diyms.org.nz)

NZ forums, very knowledgeable Link tuners.

[gator gt]

I'll back up Huffer on those NZ links, as he is a native to those parts...and that region is a hotbed for early Subaru drivetrain upgrading and tuning.

I'm not sure how far back EcuTek will go in terms of being able to tune ECUs, but if this isn't your daily driver (or you can score a ride from friends for a while) then ship out your ecu and have it re-flashed. Again, check to see how far back EcuTek tuning years go.

If you keep the TMIC, then get a good surrounding heatshield for your turbo. This will keep the IC from totally acting like a heatsink and will allow for better intake cooling.

I'm planning on using 2 pumps and 4 sprayers to douse the IC. Its a DIY kit from windshield washer tanks, windshield sprayers and a rear defog switch....all said and done, with some custom wiring, total should be about $30 USD. From junkyards baby!

Get an oil cooler with an inline thermostat. That will help cool your engine. This will add reliability to your system. The inline thermostat is important in climates where you see severe cold as well as some summer months. If not, you may very well end up with condensation in your oil pan. BAD! :evil:

Next, get a lower t-stat. Crucial Racing sells one here in the states that fits all Subarus 1992 and up. Here: http://www.crucialracing.com/products/coolsafe.php
I just bought one. I like the default of staying open IF it malfunctions.

These mods will help keep your motor from overheating and getting hotspots which may lead to knock and det. It helps keep your motor in a tighter operational parameter as well. I plan on doing all these things to the STi motor when I'm swapping it in my car.

But that heatshield is something you can actually make with aluminum house flashing with several custom bends and custom located mounting points, and if need be use stainless steel rivets to keep the sheild constructed if you have some closing folds or what not. The goal is to keep the hottness from the turbo from soaking into your IC.

But, back to the original question....what should you do to correctly setup your motor for the turbo....at minimum, get the engine management tackled....once thats taken care of....carry on from there.

GGT

[legacy92ej22t]

He's running the OEM AWIC setup and should already have a heatshield too. I think he already has an oil cooler also, since it's an EJ20G.

[Ante_J]

Hey boys´!
Yeah it`s true, oem AWIC setup, but no oilcooler, it sure hade been nice to have one, is there any good bolt on oilcooler kits out there that fits the Legacy RS?

The engine mangement is indeed the biggest problem since it`s minimum 600km to any Subaru-tuner that can install and map a piggyback ECU..
But from what i have found out so far is that the oem engine management can handle a TD05 16G very well i might start with that, but some 550cc injectors on top of that would have been great..

I have also spoken to Adrian (VOS-Chip) and his chip also runs the TD05 very well, the question is, what performance gain are we talking about with or without the VOS chip on the same setup? I now run a MBC @ 1.1-1.2 bar works great..
Any ideas?

[legacy92ej22t]

The '92 RS didn't have an oil cooler? Hmm, did the '91 have it overseas? THe '91 EJ22T here in the states had the oil cooler.

I know nothing about the VOS-Chip.

[Ante_J]

I sure haven`t found one, but just because you sound so surprised i`m gonna take a good look tomorrow.

[gator gt]

True, he should have an OEM heatshield, but it never hurts (or at least it shouldn't) to have more shielding when it comes to getting heat away from the IC.

Even if he has an OEM oil cooler....its not the one I'm referring to. The OEM oil cooler that I'm familiar with is for JDM WRX STi motors at least Ver6 & up. It has a sandwich adapter that fits between the filter and block and is cooled by the cooling system.....

the one I'm talking about is a dedicated oil cooler that uses either a sandwich adapter or remote filter location (in the kit) and feeds oil through a radiator of sorts.

The OEM oil cooler (in colder climates) tends to work more like an oil warmer in the winter. It cools the oil in the summer....but not nearly as significantly as a dedicated oil cooler kit.

There are none that I know of that bolt on directly....but if you look for one meant for a GC, you should be able to use it and creatively mount the radiator for the cooling of it.

I've got a friend who purchased a Trust oil cooler kit for his WRX from Japan. http://www.takakaira.com/performance/main.html Find 'Trust' in the left hand column, then choose GREX Oil Cooler kit from the right most drop menu at the top of the screen. Scroll down and you'll find some for the GC.

$$$, yes, but I believe the t-stat is in the sandwich adapter...important in the northern climates. Call them if you have questions.

GGT

[legacy92ej22t]

True, he should have an OEM heatshield, but it never hurts (or at least it shouldn't) to have more shielding when it comes to getting heat away from the IC.

That's what ceramic coating is for. My DP and turbo are both ceramic coated. Keeps heat sink to a minimum. :wink:


Even if he has an OEM oil cooler....its not the one I'm referring to. The OEM oil cooler that I'm familiar with is for JDM WRX STi motors at least Ver6 & up. It has a sandwich adapter that fits between the filter and block and is cooled by the cooling system.....

That's how they all are (oem subaru ones), even the early ones. I run one on my EJ22T.


the one I'm talking about is a dedicated oil cooler that uses either a sandwich adapter or remote filter location (in the kit) and feeds oil through a radiator of sorts.

The OEM oil cooler (in colder climates) tends to work more like an oil warmer in the winter. It cools the oil in the summer....but not nearly as significantly as a dedicated oil cooler kit.

There are none that I know of that bolt on directly....but if you look for one meant for a GC, you should be able to use it and creatively mount the radiator for the cooling of it.

I've got a friend who purchased a Trust oil cooler kit for his WRX from Japan. http://www.takakaira.com/performance/main.html Find 'Trust' in the left hand column, then choose GREX Oil Cooler kit from the right most drop menu at the top of the screen. Scroll down and you'll find some for the GC.

$$$, yes, but I believe the t-stat is in the sandwich adapter...important in the northern climates. Call them if you have questions.

GGT

Getting an aftermarket stand alone oil cooler is completely over kill and a waste of money unless you're pushing some major horsepower, like 350-400+. That or maybe if you're rallying but even then, unless you're putting down major power, the oem style is plenty effecient.

[Perdue]

dunno about the older legacys, but when the WRX guys are upgrading turbo, they're having to replace injectors, fuel pump, and doing engine management with a dyno tune, along with the supporting mods (UP/DP, headers, Intake, Intercooler). I doubt it would be as easy as just throwing on a new turbo, especially if it's going to be moving more air. Nothing's ever that easy.

[gator gt]

dunno about the older legacys, but when the WRX guys are upgrading turbo, they're having to replace injectors, fuel pump, and doing engine management with a dyno tune, along with the supporting mods (UP/DP, headers, Intake, Intercooler). I doubt it would be as easy as just throwing on a new turbo, especially if it's going to be moving more air. Nothing's ever that easy.

ditto.

I acknowledge that I don't know a whole boatload about all the turbos out there, so I'm unsure of what kind of power levels the turbo of topic can put out. But P-man is right, fuel pump, injectors and EM tuning is the very minimum to run the turbo properly at its lowest usable level. Supporting mods as listed from P-man further exploit the higher characteristics of the turbo's potential.




Getting an aftermarket stand alone oil cooler is completely over kill and a waste of money unless you're pushing some major horsepower, like 350-400+. That or maybe if you're rallying but even then, unless you're putting down major power, the oem style is plenty effecient.

....well, maybe I will be pushing that much.... :D

You may be right.....but I'm just sharing what I've learned. I like to throw what I've learned out there and let people pick and choose.

GGT

[Ante_J]

I have now have been spending my time reading about tuning these babies, as said before to take full advantage of a TD05 i need Fuel pump, injectors (550cc) and ecu-mapping.

Injectors, fuelpump and turbo is not a problem, my problem is the ecu mapping, we hava aprox 2 companies that tune Subarus in entire Sweden, the price is also based on that.., and on top of that i have atleast 600-1000km to drive before i even get there :#¤%/&

Hm, back to drawing board ;)

A upgrade fuelpump would be a good start thou, Wahlbro 255hp, model 341 with impreza mouting kit.

[gator gt]

A upgrade fuelpump would be a good start thou, Wahlbro 255hp, model 341 with impreza mouting kit.

bingo. :-D




my problem is the ecu mapping, we hava aprox 2 companies that tune Subarus in entire Sweden, the price is also based on that.., and on top of that i have atleast 600-1000km to drive before i even get there :#¤%/&

Hm, back to drawing board ;)

Worse gets to worse....get a duplicate ECU and mail it to them. Or borrow a beater and send in your ECU. Not as good as having the car THERE, but its an option.

Its something I have to look into...not many people are experts in my area for tuning STi ECUs. I'm looking to mail ECUs out to a very reputable tuner and giving them a complete breakdown of the car (oil cooler, radiator dims, motor, turbo, IC size, spark plugs, etc)

good luck and let us know.

GGT

[Ante_J]

I have decided not to go for the TD05 16G as it will not be pushing more than aprox 15kw more than my stock VF12, and thats with injectors and only at the top, in the low and midrange the VF12 is better.

So now i have a Wahlbro 255l/h HP (GSS341), sitting on my desk, will fit i this weekend.
For the ECU i have orderd a VOS-chip, as far as i have read and heard it is the number one solution when you stay stock injectors, the VOS-chip can push 140-150kw@wheels on a car with similiar mods as mine so i can`t whait to take the VOS-equipped RS out for a ride!
I should have it in the mail in a week or two, i`ll post a update later!

[gator gt]

for those of you who are confused:

1HP = 0.7457kw

thus Ante is looking at pushing 187 - 201whp = ~ 249 - 268hp at the crank (conservative) (awhp/0.75 = ~ crank hp)

not an exact science...just a rough estimate. Could even be higher hp at the crank!

Nice detective work sir! Yes, please post up your results!

GGT