looking to purchase a legacy

[lksdrinker]

Hey everybody, new guy to the Subaru world here. Im pretty savvy when it comes to Hondas but dont know much about subarus yet. Anyways....on to the reason I'm here. My younger sister is looking at purchasing her first car. She needs something reliable and all wheel drive wouldnt hurt as she goes to school in Syracuse where the winters can get nasty. I started suggesting Subarus to her and she took a liking to the legacy.

So what would everyone suggest? I've seen that the 2nd gens have a problem blowing HGs, but I think we are gonna be looking at the 03-05 sort of range. Any big differences between the 3rd and 4th generations? I'm leaning towards the 04 but only b/c its the last year of that generation and typically last year models should have any problems that generation faced all sorted out.

Suggestions on a fair price at those years? I've seen the 04's anywhere between $9000 and $13000.

Anything I should be aware of as far as typical problem areas?

Any general maintenance issues I should be aware of?

sorry for the long post....thanks ahead of time

[Huffer]

The 04's are a good year. The major difference between 2nd and 3rd gens is weight, and the rear suspension design (moved from macpherson strut to multi-link).

The 2nd gens are plenty reliable once the HG's are taken care of, and being lighter are more economical. Being an older car they're also cheaper to insure.

The 3rd gens get the better, lighter SOHC engine with the same output 165hp but the auto transmissions are supposed to be quicker shifting.

2nd gens appear to be easier to modify, if that's of any consequence.

Personally, for a student, I would spend the least possible up front. It's a first car. Why spend 10 grand on a first car? It's GOING to get dinged up.

[Reuben]

My recomendation is a Gen 2 2.2L, i had one before my GT, and they are pretty much one of the most reliable subie you can buy (if not the most reliable). And they aren't slack either. Those 22's just keep going and going and going and going! When i sold mine, it had 275,000 Km's on it, and i've seen one still perfectly fine at 350,000k's!

[henryq89]

i wouds say go with a 97' 2.5GT ...like mine :cool: lol...its a really awes0me thing to drive and for the 213XXX miles it has..it still pulls pretty hard when racing the average ricer..lol

[Airgne]

i got a gen 3 legacy, and havent had any real problems other then the clutch going out at 109,000miles. head gaskets are still going strong at 114,000+miles. i have driven both 2nd and 3rd gen. i like the 3rd gen alot better. also i dont know that just cus the 2nd gen is lighter it will be more gas freindly. i get 29-32 on freeway and 22-27 in town, all depending on how i drive mine. also i think that 3rd gen is more comfortable on the inside than the 2nd gen. me if i could do it over again i would go with a 1rst or 4th gen just cuz you can get them turbo'd from the factory and play with them without putting to much money into just to be boosted.

[lksdrinker]

Thanks for all the responses!

I agree that for a first car it should be cheap, disposable and expected to get beat up. Unfortunately my sister waited longer than most to get her license (she'll be 21 this year), and she has been able to save up some money in the meantime. Plus my parents are also chipping in on top of her money, and they would like her to have something 'new and reliable'. My mother thinks my sister should be in a brand new car off the lot.....i've at least talked them into something a few years old.

I wonder why the 2nd gens are easier to modify? In any event, thats no problem as my sister is not looking for performance. Its gotta be an automatic, and Im obviously not going to look at boosted motors for her.

Its still looking like the 04s are a good bet. Although Im starting to think that if it was me looking to buy this car I would look at the 1st or 4th gen and look into swapping in a bigger snail!

Whats the general gas mileage everyone sees?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Only the EJ25 in the 2nd gen has headgasket issues. The EJ22 really never experienced any problems with that.

That being said, if you're looking for a more comfortable, safe, smoother vehicle, a 3rd gen is a better choice - it's quieter, smoother, and a little more powerful. It's heavier, however, that might prove to be useful in plowing through nasty snow drifts and the like. If she's going to be driving in the snow, whatever she gets, it should have dedicated winter tires, rather than all seasons. I'd drive a Honda Civic with snow tires on it over a Subaru with all seasons in snow.

With my 95 with the EJ22 I get around 30mpg highway in the Summer. Lower that a good 4mpg in the wintertime with oxygenated fuels.

[Huffer]

she has been able to save up some money in the meantime. Plus my parents are also chipping in on top of her money

This is the biggest reason not to buy new, or even mildly used.

You buy a car that's 6-7 years old with under 80k, you maximize the money that you've worked hard to save up for. Then you can put the money you've saved on the better purchase into the next car, and you upgrade as you go along.

My first car was an 84 Accord. It was a tank and perfect for teaching me how to drive.

[lksdrinker]

she has been able to save up some money in the meantime. Plus my parents are also chipping in on top of her money

This is the biggest reason not to buy new, or even mildly used.

You buy a car that's 6-7 years old with under 80k, you maximize the money that you've worked hard to save up for. Then you can put the money you've saved on the better purchase into the next car, and you upgrade as you go along.

My first car was an 84 Accord. It was a tank and perfect for teaching me how to drive.

believe me, you're preaching to the choir here. My parents attitudes have changed quite a bit since when I first started driving in 97-98. My first car was an 84 camry with more rust than car on top of a slew of other problems. But it taught me well and there was no prouder day in my life than when I was able to turn around and sell that thing after my beginner attempts at rust removal and masking who knows how many other problems.

[Plays_with_Toys]

I'll see if I can add anything useful. As huffer stated, the third gen is heavier, though with that is an increase in interior room and creature comforts. From the 2nd gen on the legacy platform has been incredibly safe (not sure about 1st gen), but subaru is renowned for it's high safety ratings.

Automatic means 90/10 power split until a wheel slips, which means that your sister's subaru is a front wheel drive with a parasitic drag in the rear making her cry at the pump. Subaru's rarely get above the 30mpg mark, especially if it's a city car.

The EJ25 was problematic, and might still be. The newer cars haven't hit that age where the headgaskets have shown failure on the previous generation, but the consensus has been that since the phase II motor was introduced the problem has been resolved.

When you talk about bugs, consider the fact that the impreza and legacy platform has remained relatively unchanged since 1990. It's why subaru's are called legos. The frame has seen such little change that most things bolt across platforms. This means that the car has had 14 years to have the bugs worked out.

Problems you'll see are the front CV boots. Motor is an interference motor, so the timing belt should be done at 100k miles or so. At the same time, people recommend an overhaul of the engine seals at the front of the motor as well as the water pump being replaced. The waterpump is timing belt driven and so if there is a problem with it you'll have to do the timing belt again. Having said that, most shops around where I lived said they never bother replacing the water pump at the time of a timing belt job and they generally don't see a problem. (I live in colorado which in all rights should have a subaru outback on the state flag).

I'd recommend a wagon for her age, she's probably still got a few moves left to make before she settles somewhere, and my wagon has been absolutely awesome in how much it can fit in. I've even helped people who thought it would take 2-3 car loads and we got it done in one and they were shocked and amazed.

In the end, with snow driving it comes down to the driver, and not the car. A shitty driver in a good car will be off worse than a good driver in a shitty car, so no matter what route she goes with, I would recommend some driver training. If they offer some active high performance classes out there I would recommend her taking one to where she can understand vehicle dynamics and traction and how to apply it to her car. I worked for a company that did this in the owners car, and we would teach them the vehicles limits and the driver's limits.

[lksdrinker]

great info there Plays with Toys. I completely agree about the driver making all the difference in the snow. I will look into a good driving school up there that can hopefully teach her a thing or two.

[sansMYSTi]

The BE/BH is a very good car, from my experience so far. I have had a bugeye WRX and an '04 STi, and believe it or not, overall the Leg has been my favorite Subie so far. Sure it doesn't have the power of the WRX or STi, but for practicality, comfort, and value, it offers what the Impreza line cannot. Plus I have made enough mods to the suspension that it is a very fun car to drive.

Speaking of mods, I think that availability of aftermarket parts is the major downside of the BE/BH. You really only have JDM/EDM parts to choose from and whatever parts you can figure out will fit from the Impreza line of parts. There is alomst no aftermarket parts specific to the BE/BH. At least JDM stuff is quite available, especially on eBay - if you are patient and bid well, there is alot of JDM available on eBay. The other downside of this model range is the weight and size, as mentioned before.

One of the nice pluses for the BE/BH however is the larger and deeper wheel wells, so they really increase your options for rims/tires.

Overall the BE/BH is a good package - all you need is a WRX/STi full swap and you have got yourself the perfect package.

P.S. I really have no experience with other model ranges of Legacy, so I really have no comparison.

[greenspeed]

Now for a horror story...

I bought my legacy 5 months ago...I get it down in Tampa, FL...was driving back to teh UP of Michigan...when I got to Jacksonville (215 miles away from Tampa) I started to here a knock, pulled over...and knew right away i blew a hg on the way back and it was an internal failure...never saw it coming.

I then got a phase 2 block out of an 01 rs...the same SOHC they put in the legs. Had that for 7k miles before spinning a rod bearing...

Basically the only thing I can say is this...even though I've blown 2 motors, I've learned alot about subarus and how easy they are to interchange parts on. Even teh novice of mechanic can pull the engine out of a sub in less then 3 hours...and I'll say this first hand, first time for me took 1.5 hours.

Basically repairs are not that costly, but ording parts for me was a pain the first day cause I had to have my vin number to even order a center cap for my snowflakes.

So just what I'd like to add on a positive. I was going to ditch my legacy for a wrx a few weeks ago when the rod bearing went. I decided not to. I got my leg for $3600 and I basically love my old man saloon. It's something to do with bumper high snow, and just chuggin through it as people in their tahoes and blazers are in teh ditches that puts a huge smile on my face...then towing my SLED...The looks I got...I couldn't want anything more...

Maybe a wrx engine with a turbo...oh wait that's what I am working on now :P.

I'd suggest a Legacy Wagon, Limited, or outback. They get all the things girls like, pw, pl, sunroofs, heated seats, ect... Most of them are auto's too...My friends room mate had one and they both loved that car...

just my $.02

[lksdrinker]

So my sister ended up getting an 04 legacy. Seems like a great car although I havent really had a good chance to look it over. She had to bring it to the insurance comp for some photos and they pointed out that the splashguard/undercover plastic 'skidplate' thing (under the radiator) is missing. Now I usually remove these things from any of my cars and never replace them with no problems. However, they told my dad that the purpose of it on the legacy is to help aid the oil cooler so hes hell bent on getting one on there.

....does this car even have an oil cooler?

And where can I source one of these things easily. I've looked around online a little bit and found it to be called 'undercover center' and its associated with the radiator support (pictured in the same diagram). Its listed at about $76 where I found it which seems way more than necessary.

Any chance somebody has one of these lying around that they're willing to part with?
If not, how bout some suggestions for good sites to find parts?
Also how about parts numbers/part lists and/or an online repair manual?

[decke48]

the oil cooler on subarus are coolent lines that come from the thermstat housing run to the oil filter housing and cools the oil then runs back into the block... idk if the undercover helps anything out besides keeps mud/snow/water from splashing into the bottom of the engine bay