MY96 BD - Help with swaybars upgrade please

[winston856]

Hello everyone, MY96 LGT has stock suspension. I'm completely happy with the spring rate atm but it rolls like a pig when pushed in the corners.

Right now I have the tires at a 2 PSI split F/R like it says on the door card so the car doesn't really understeer too much.

I just want to get rid of that stupid body roll, I feel like I'm in a Cadillac sometimes. Okay maybe that's a little exaggerated but it does roll quite a bit.

I'm on SOMEWHAT of a budget but know the good stuff costs. I don't need any racing components or anything as the car is a DD but I have fun with it quite I big (read: I love corners!!)

I know I'd like to make them even, as in keep the same diameter F/R to keep the car balanced. I've looked at whiteline and rallitek but am not sure what to get and need help with part numbers as well. I was thinking of an adjustable rear but I don't know how much I'd use that, maybe to make the car softer for the inclemate weather (snow etc).

[Huffer]

Get an adjustable 18-20-22mm rear swaybar, and buy some new springs and struts. Set it at 20mm and see how you like it. Shift it to 22mm and watch the rear end rotate quickly.

Done.

Stock front swaybar is fine.

[Grafton]

i run 35 33 f/r seems to help some with percived body roll

[winston856]

Get an adjustable 18-20-22mm rear swaybar, and buy some new springs and struts. Set it at 20mm and see how you like it. Shift it to 22mm and watch the rear end rotate quickly.

Done.

Stock front swaybar is fine.

Well, not to start rejecting advise here but I'm not ready to do struts/springs yet. I just wanted some sways.

My knowledge of swaybars is something like the front controls the body roll where as the rear controls over/understeer. Going with that logic, I would need a new front, right?

[Huffer]

Nope - it's not necessary to upgrade the front - the rear is where the lack of ridgity is most present.

Most cars will have a larger front sway to help INDUCE understeer - simply because this is safer for the majority of drivers.

Increasing the rear swaybar diameter size will help stiffen the chassis during turns... however going too thick will result in the rear of the car rotating very quickly or "snapping" out during a quick turn. I can AWD donut on a whim in the snow with my wagon and I only have it set to 20mm...and I have snow tires.

Springs are actually a better upgrade than swaybars - because they help at each corner, independently...swaybars actually transfer torsional load.

[winston856]

I know whiteline has an adjustable sway, I've heard nothing but good about them as well.

I want to make sure I have the right part number for whiteline.

I have two here, which do I need?

Swaybar-X h/duty Blade adjustable BSR19XZ R 1 20mm

Swaybar-XX h/duty Blade adjustable-RACE. BSR19XXZ R 1 22mm

Both adjustable, I'm thinking it's the first one right?

[Huffer]

Actually I think it's the 2nd one you want - but you should email Whiteline directly and ask them how many adjustments are available on each product.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

yea im pretty much looking for the same thing for my 1998 BD gt im confused

they only place i have found these is boxer 4 and they have a 19-20-21 and a 21-22-23 ajustable whiteline sways.

[decke48]

the 19-20-21 is the 20mm bar 21-22-23 is the 22mm bar

other places you can find the bar is renickmotorsports as a US distributor
http://www.renickmotorsports.com/oscomm ... 52_277_299 (http://www.renickmotorsports.com/oscommerce/catalog/index.php?cPath=252_277_299)

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ok do they make a 18mm?

and does any one make a more ajustable one or is it just 1mm each way

[Huffer]

18mm is found stock on the Outback. You can use that.

IMHO, 20mm is perfect on the BD for overall handling and 22mm is great for being more aggressive.

[HeresMyMind]

i like that slight roll my wagon throws. helps alot for double turn sliding. It really helps get that back end around.

-B

[ScaryFatKidGT]

if i got the 20mmwith new endlinks are the renforced sway bar mount necesary?

what about 22mm?

[Huffer]

I have a 22mm bar on my wagon. Stock plastic endlinks, no issues.

I rotate the car a LOT in winter. ;)

[ScaryFatKidGT]

how much do u think it would take to make a scubby drift car

[jg09]

i like that slight roll my wagon throws. helps alot for double turn sliding. It really helps get that back end around.

-B

+1

I think I'm going to get the 22mm bar for my OB one of these days, though. The OB wagon is a hefty car and its body sways easily.

[Huffer]

how much do u think it would take to make a scubby drift car

Out of what? Legacy? Impreza? Brat? Baja? STi? WRX? wagon? sedan? SVX?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

a legacy lol put like a 24mm on there, with a little more HP u could slid that think around pretty good for a AWD

[decke48]

how much do u think it would take to make a scubby drift car

buy a 27mm adjustable GC bar from whiteline. its adjustments are 25-27-30.. and pound a spot in you spare tire well... and weld you front,center,rear diff carrier so its lock all the time

[ScaryFatKidGT]

so then its like all time all wheel drive whats the torqe split 50/50?

[Huffer]

Depends on what you have, auto or manual. Manual = 50/50, auto = 90/10 with a variable split to 60/40 (front/rear).

[ScaryFatKidGT]

so on a manual its either 100/0 or 50/50?

[jg09]

Ah, that's why I end up spinning a front tire when I try to drift sometimes, then! Gotcha...it's the REALLY uneven torque split.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

18mm is found stock on the Outback. You can use that.

IMHO, 20mm is perfect on the BD for overall handling and 22mm is great for being more aggressive.

whats ur defenitions of "allitle more aggressive"

[Huffer]

^^ Taking an offramp at 20mph more than the posted recommended speed.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ha sounds good i think that would put me in the "more agressive catigory"

so are u going to be able to take a corner faster with a 22mm vs. a 20mm

and how much would a 22 afect over stear if someone wants to drive my car am i going to need to give them a driving lesson first or go and ajust the bar down. or would they be ok aslong as there not screwing off

(sorry i kinda stole this guys post maby i should post my own with sway bar questions)

[Huffer]

The majority of people will never reach swaybar limits on a progressive corner...

You will reach the limit of your tires before you break your swaybar, unless you have amazing tires and a good road surface.

Anyone can roll a car over or snap it around if they just go to full-lock at speed - regardless of swaybar size.

[winston856]

Ah, that's why I end up spinning a front tire when I try to drift sometimes, then! Gotcha...it's the REALLY uneven torque split.

This doesn't make much sense, your tires will spin when you drift. You mean you spin the front MORE? Yes it's due to the 4EAT being more front wheel biased.

However, you'll spin the inside tire due the lack of a front LSD.

I've got a rear LSD in my BD now and the inside tires never spin anymore, the rear is just planted.

[winston856]

(sorry i kinda stole this guys post maby i should post my own with sway bar questions)

That's ok, I don't mind this time :smile:

BTW, thanks for showing me that alternative site to get WL's from.

[jg09]

Hate to threadjack, so...


...I'll be brief here:


This doesn't make much sense, your tires will spin when you drift. You mean you spin the front MORE? Yes it's due to the 4EAT being more front wheel biased.

If I'm coming into a corner, turn the wheel sharply and gas it, then an inside front tire spins and the others don't lose traction, where as a RWD car would at least spin a rear tire (if not both) and the back would whip around. Many of my attempts at "drifting" never really get off the ground, so to speak. I've got some more questions about this, but I'll post it up in the proper area.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

dont BDs have just a front LSD? being more front bias? or is that what u were saying

[ScaryFatKidGT]

...I'll be brief here:

If I'm coming into a corner, turn the wheel sharply and gas it, then an inside front tire spins and the others don't lose traction, where as a RWD car would at least spin a rear tire (if not both) and the back would whip around. Many of my attempts at "drifting" never really get off the ground, so to speak. I've got some more questions about this, but I'll post it up in the proper area.[/quote]


yea i have tried drifting in my BD even after it rains it doesnt work very good wish i had a manual so i had a 50/50 torqe split maybe a 22mm sway will help

[Huffer]

You can get a 50/50 torque split if you select D3 in the autos. D4 has the variable split based on traction slip.

[winston856]

dont BDs have just a front LSD? being more front bias? or is that what u were saying

BD's have no LSD's at all. Impreza RS's have a rear LSD, WRX's have a rear LSD, STi's have front and rear LSD's. LSD being limited slip differential which makes both of the wheels spin equally instead of letting one get all the power.


I've always been a little sketchy on how the torque split works on 4EAT BD's. My understanding was it was 50/50 in 1st and 2nd and maybe 3rd but 4th went to 90/10 to "save gas".

Of course the center diff is computer controlled so it can go from 90/10 to 60/40 or 50/50 depending on the slippage and that's all decided by the computer.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

whats this about D3 and D4?

oh i thought BD GTs had 1 LSD some where

[winston856]

Hate to threadjack, so...


...I'll be brief here:

If I'm coming into a corner, turn the wheel sharply and gas it, then an inside front tire spins and the others don't lose traction, where as a RWD car would at least spin a rear tire (if not both) and the back would whip around. Many of my attempts at "drifting" never really get off the ground, so to speak. I've got some more questions about this, but I'll post it up in the proper area.

Well mainly because 2WD cars transmit more power to the ground than AWD, our 2.5's make 155 or 165HP split between 4 wheels instead of just two, so we need more power to overcome. It's easy to drift in the snow but you either have to be in 1st gear to have the most torque go be going really fast in order to help the car loose traction.

Most RWD drift cars utilize a LSD in the rear so both wheels spin for the most part, evenly. That causes the rear end to break loose with ease.

The closest thing Subaru has is the STi which utilizes front and rear differentials and has the most power, so you're best off with that drifting. You can still "drift" in the snow/gravel/dirt/grass. Stock BD's have no LSD's though and when they get them they require MORE power to overcome the limited slip because it's just another level of traction.

Bottom line, if you want to drive do it on anything but tarmac, otherwise get yourself a RWD car
:smile:

[winston856]

whats this about D3 and D4?

oh i thought BD GTs had 1 LSD some where

The Subaru 4EAT has 4 gears: 1, 2, 3, 4. 4 is "drive or "D". I think Huffer meant D3 (3rd) as in the 3rd forward drive gear. :smile:

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ohhh ok thx for clarifying

so to drift a BD u would pretty much have to get a LSD in the rear only a huge sway bar and about 200hp or more out of ur 2.5

[Huffer]

look at mranlet's member rides I thread.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

haha thx for that thats a pretty sweet ride