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View Full Version : New or used car buying tips - to finance or to own?



Huffer
09-19-2008, 03:06 PM
While there are tons of resources out on the web, I figured I would collect a couple of differing opinions on the best way to own a car...and this is different for SLi members because the vast majority of us are into playing around with and modifying our vehicles... so warranty issues will not be discussed except with the following guideline:

If you have a warranty policy and you modify your car, expect any further warranty claim work to be denied.
That rule may or may not hold true in every case, but if you expect the worst, then anything else is a pleasant surprise.

My personal stance
Personally speaking, I never recommend financing a car, whether it be used OR new. Why? Because I like to actually have the ability to say "I saved up and paid for my car" and "it's my name on the title, not CAR COMPANY CREDIT UNION".

The other reasons I like to have full ownership of the car is because there's no ongoing monthly cost except insurance and maintenance (don't tell me you forgot about maintenance). And I don't pretend to be filthy rich, so I'm not real happy on seeing my "property" depreciate in value.
BUY USED, AVOID THE 30% DEPRECIATION IN THE FIRST YEAR.
A new car loses 60% of its value in the first 4 years. Save up money and pay cash for a used car.

The ONLY time I would advise someone to take out a short-term SMALL loan on a car is if they literally have no other way to get around and are in a really bad situation...people have to be able to get to work to get out of the hole. In those cases, they buy only as little car as they need - you don't roll in a Hummer if you can't even make rent.

Why Buy A Used Car?

Buying a new car is not something 98% of the people out there need to be doing. It is a luxury item. Only buy a new car if you're filthy rich.

There are alternatives to buying new. Used lots are overflowing, and millions of cars come from expired leases.

The money saved by buying a used car is because of depreciation (the loss of the financial value of an object due to its use). Used cars have already depreciated (60 to 70% in the first 5 years). Buying used allows the person who bought the car when it was new to eat the cost of the depreciation. Then the person who buys the car used can get a great car for much less than the new wholesale prices.

This makes even more sense for a younger person without a lot of income - I see a lot of ads for relatively new cars for sale because people are trying to pay for college...bonehead move buying a new car and then heading off to one of the most expensive things you can ever do! Not only does the college student have to deal with college pressures, they also have to figure out a way to pay for the car AND when it becomes obvious that delivering pizzas in that Audi isn't going to cut it - when they try to sell their 1 year old car no-one is willing to pay what they want for it...because it's DEPRECIATED.

So they end up trading it in for a lower monthly car payment, another new car (or a used one) and most likely end up having negative equity - they now owe more than the car is worth.

Which brings me to insurance concerns - insurance on a younger, newer driver is much higher on a brand new car. Parts on new cars are more expensive, and younger drivers are a higher risk anyway. Double-whammy.

Now, to be fair there are plenty of people out there that say that financing or leasing a car is a great way to go because you can get the car that you want without having to front up the money... which is fine except that should you really get something unless you've EARNED it first? I guess that's a moral decision, and entirely up to the buyer and seller.

The other argument for finance/leasing is that if you had to cash out your savings to buy a car, then you should finance the purchase because your %APR on the loan for the car is going to be less than your rate of return on your investments.
Basically, that argument it built on the point of opportunity cost - if you spend the cash on the car, you don't have anything else to spend it on (or leave it in savings). But these arguments don't include the fact that you will STILL have running costs, insurance and also any out of pocket expenses at the end of your lease (if you leased) if you don't want to buy the car from the dealer.

Shit. If my investments are so awesome, why CAN'T I just buy a car outright and not even blink an eye?

Well you can - and you should.

I tell you what, I would much rather be accountable to ME rather than sign the next 2-5 years away in some kind of financial SERVITUDE to a faceless motoring corporation. They only love you when you pay on time.

And here's why leasing is such a bad idea (and don't get me started about some stupid tax-write off either - I can make more money investing that monthly payment than you can with an annual tax-write off):

Leasing

Leasing is essentially a long-term rental agreement in which you pay for the right to use a car. At the end of the lease term, you have the right to purchase the car for a price determined at the beginning of the lease agreement. On one hand, leasing is a great deal: you get a car that you couldn't afford to buy, and you have a low down payment, and slightly lower monthly payments.

However, if you end up buying the car, leasing is almost always turns out to be more costly than a loan. And if you don't buy at the end of the lease, you have nothing to show for all those monthly "rental" payments.

Too many people today view their car as their status symbol. A nice car means a successful person, while an older car means one has no money. Remember, anyone can get a nice car if they make the stupid decision to get a loan with it. You are not wealthier by having a nice car and a big loan. If anything, you are poorer. It's not wrong to own a nice car if you paid cash for it.

So what kind of car should I have?
The total value of all your vehicles (including boats, all-terrain vehicles, etc.) should not equal more than half of your gross income. If you have that much of your money tied up in transportation, your budget for things like rent and food will be stretched way too thin. At that point, it doesn't matter how nice the car is, because it owns you and your life.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, more than 80% of car loans are for longer than 4 years. If you buy the car new, then by the time the loan runs out, the car will have lost between 60% and 70% of its value. That's beyond ridiculous ... it's stupid! Why would you get a $25,000 loan at 8% over 4 years, pay $598 a month, be stuck with a car worth $8,750 when the loan is done ... and think it's a smart idea?

How a car loan hurts you
If you have a big car loan, it hurts you in the long term as well as the short. First of all, if you took out the loan described above, you would pay over $28,000 for a $25,000 car. How smart is that? Would you pay $200,000 for a house if you knew you could buy it for $175,000? Would you apply for a $20,000 student loan to go to a $15,000 school? Of course not. So don't pay more for a car than it's worth.

Second, if you invest that $598 in a mutual fund for 30 years, it would be worth almost $2.1 million. Hope you like the car!

In the meantime, don't jeopardize your family's well-being or your future just for a stupid car. The car you owned 30 years ago won't feed you at retirement. It won't send your kids to college and it won't give you the ability to be so rich that you can give money away and bless others. Car loans will eat your lunch, so stay away from them.

*much of this post was taken from www.daveramsey.com (http://www.daveramsey.com) and also
http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/ge ... -ride.aspx (http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/general/2007/08/02/should-you-pay-cash-for-that-new-ride.aspx)
http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2007/12 ... -a-ca.html (http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2007/12/how-to-buy-a-ca.html)
http://www.msmoney.com/mm/life_purchase ... tionfl.htm (http://www.msmoney.com/mm/life_purchases/auto/optionfl.htm)

97legacygt
09-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Great write-up. I totally agree with you and 99% of the stuff Dave Ramsey teaches. Its amazing how many people will buy a car on a loan they can't afford only to have it taken away by a repo company.

Huffer
09-19-2008, 03:32 PM
I added a poll to see if this should be stickied...

Nite_net
09-20-2008, 12:08 AM
I think it must be said that Financing to own a vehicle can be beneficial in some cases:

If your employer gives you a Car Allowance - it is always a benefit to drive a vehicle that is more reliable and under warranty.

I don't know about you guys, but where I am located, I can be driving for literally 2-3-4 hrs before running into another town. To add to these issues, is a -40 temperature, and a windchill 6+ months of the year. It is for this reason, I cannot afford to have a vehicle that has the slightest possibility to break down.

While you have made a great point at expressing the reasons to have bought a used vehicle - one should understand that there are benefits to buying a new vehicle - all be it there aren't any financially.

BE-Fresh
09-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Yeah I agree with everything, cept it just sucks that I'm thinking of my situation when I'm reading it lol. I've had three older Volkswagens, all in which I paid for...well first was a gift, second I bought and the VR6 my mom paid for half. Anyway, those cars were always in the shop at least once every other month. I needed a reliable/fuel efficient/practical car that wasn't brand new, something I could not mod easily, but around 2000+. At the time I figured car payments wouldn't be that bad since I had a good job. But everything went downhill since I left my detailing biz. It does suck going to school, even community college, and making car payments. If I could go back, I probably would have stayed at the dealership, or at least always made sure I had a good enough job that I could pay all my bills and not have to worry. I can't really say I made a mistake buying this car, it's gotten me everywhere I've wanted to go within the past 2 years I've had it and NOTHING has gone wrong (knock on wood).

Huffer
09-21-2008, 03:21 PM
It is for this reason, I cannot afford to have a vehicle that has the slightest possibility to break down.

While you have made a great point at expressing the reasons to have bought a used vehicle - one should understand that there are benefits to buying a new vehicle - all be it there aren't any financially.

I can tell you with complete confidence, new cars typically have more problems than slightly used vehicles (under 60k) - simply because they are brand new does not exclude them from Murphy's law. Take a look at the NHTSA reports on this. Personal experience - work colleague has brand new 08 Jetta (purchased 2007)... goes into dealership every 8 weeks after purchase due to the following items:
passenger seat belt does not buckle correctly
windshield wipers stop working...in the rain
rear windshield defroster stops working - turns out after the 7th trip to the dealer it is discovered that the wrong glass was installed at the factory

All I will say is simply that if my car needs to go in for repair - it ain't no thang - because I don't have a monthly payment, paying for a rental car for a couple of days isn't an issue.

Some dealerships now refuse to give you even a loaner - even if you have a finance contract with them.

In addition - the Vehicle Allowance that some employers offer can be negated by simply renegotiating the contract to include a mileage offset on your own personal vehicle, whilst saving that money to go toward a newer car further down the road. I have a friend who did just that. He started his job with a 1989 Civic, and each year sold and traded up to a newer car. Now he's in a nice, comfortable 05 Accord - whereas his coworkers are still trundling around in Chevy Malibu's (not the 08 models)...

I do agree - in some cases the pros for a financed car might sound great - but all I see is a false representation of wealth.

Every car has it's problems - but how do you deal with them when they arise? Go to a dealer and demand/hope that they can fix it? Or get the repair taken care of yourself?

rougeben83
09-21-2008, 05:01 PM
I agree with you, but I found out a long time ago you can't really change people's mind unless they're willing to hear you out.

I know a lot of people in my family buy new simply because of that piece of mind that no one has ever "driven" the car before...and to them that's worth its own weight in gold, no matter what commonsense reasoning I throw at them (well commonsense to me and you at least).

Also, one thing I've seen done in the past is to make sure the loan/finance plan youre getting doesn't have a penalty for paying it off early, and then proceed to pay it off in the following 1-3 months. That way you still have some financial breathing room instead of plunking down that big chunk of change, while minimizing the interest. Plus, some incentives (rebates, option packages, etc.) are only given to those who finance so you get those as well.

Huffer
09-22-2008, 09:35 AM
Also, one thing I've seen done in the past is to make sure the loan/finance plan youre getting doesn't have a penalty for paying it off early, and then proceed to pay it off in the following 1-3 months. That way you still have some financial breathing room instead of plunking down that big chunk of change, while minimizing the interest. Plus, some incentives (rebates, option packages, etc.) are only given to those who finance so you get those as well.

That's good info.

I keep telling people "if you're going to finance, make sure the contract is in terms that YOU set - you're the buyer, negotiate!".

Too many people don't negotiate - they feel like it's rude or something. It's some kind of weird American thing not to negotiate. Ever notice when foreign delegates arrive from overseas? They buy a house to set up in. The US delegates rent a hotel - who's in for the long haul? :D

jey
09-22-2008, 12:21 PM
While there is good information here, all of which I agree with when it comes to my own situation (never had a car payment in my life - always paid cash for used cars), I don't think it applies to everyone.

I can think of situations where telling someone to buy a used car instead of new can be BAD advise:

1. Person knows NOTHING about cars - can't even take a used car for a test drive and identify if the car has been beat up and won't last another month. Think about all those Legacy GTs out there with signs of a head gasket about to fail. Some people get RIPPED OFF, and then they have no warranty, no dealer to complain to (if private sale), and even if it's through a dealer you know how some used car sales operations go...

2. Person has $0 savings. Sometimes worse than financing a new car is financing a USED car! Now you're making car payments AND paying for repairs. (Extreme, worst case: Financing $12k to buy a 2001 BMW 750i. OMG, German repair bills FTL. Smarter to take that $12k and buy an economy car with a warranty.)

3. Person HAS to have a new-ish car - in the real estate business or something, driving clients around. Or, they just love new cars. The concept of depreciation has already been described here. The best way to control it and make it predictable when it's time to get rid of your car is to lease your car.