arg..c'mon ebay..

[2.5GT]

I hate how there's 0 UEL borla knock off headers now..(except a used one that i found)

When you're ready to buy...you can't find it anymore :roll:

[jg09]

...knock off...

<---Shakes his head


Don't even get me started on what knock off brands do to the economy...aye...

[subba]

reviews say the borla knockoffs are better built than the original. :grin:


On that note, Knockoffs killed Trust/Greddy (they could not make sales so bad that they filed bankruptcy)

Apexi was in that boat too but they got a last minuite rescue from some multi billion dollar korean company.

[2.5GT]

Majority of N/A owners have the ebay knock offs. cheap and effective :eek:

[Reason]

Majority of N/A owners have the ebay knock offs. cheap and effective :eek:

Exactly, no need for the high prices for welded tubes. R&D my ass, keep the price low and sell more.

[2.5GT]

damn straight...now if only they come back :mad:

[jg09]

I'm the very opposite. R&D cost those companies a lot, but in most cases, it's well worth the price. Buy cheap knock offs if you want, but I'm buying the original, real deal.

[2.5GT]

Incase you haven't heard. There's only 2 types of UEL header for N/As.

1 is Borla (expensive? yes, R&D? probably, prone to cracking? yes) the other, UEL Borla Ebay Knock off ( Expensive? not as much as Borla, R&D? probably not, prone to cracking? haven't heard of any cases about it.)

Cheap and effective is all i want for my pos subie. Unless I was driving a WRX or STi, then It'll be different.

and if Borla actually did extensive R&D, they would found out that their cheap materials cause the header to crack! hehe...ok i have no evidence of the cheap material deal....but from other owners who bought the Borlas, they tend to crack at welds or other locations over time.

[99SUS SFD]

All of the headers I've seen said they were Borlas, so I'm to assume they're actually Borlas? I'd hope the auctions would designate whether they're knock offs or not.

[Reason]

I'm the very opposite. R&D cost those companies a lot, but in most cases, it's well worth the price. Buy cheap knock offs if you want, but I'm buying the original, real deal.

Do you understand that there wouldn't be much R&D at all. Plus not only is it for one model, it crosses over 3 different models of cars. It doesn't take much time to R&D a header. Let me re-phrase that. It doesn't take much R&D to develop a header for a NA 2.5L subaru. It's not that much different from the stock, just slightly larger diameter tubes and maybe cleaner transitions. And if you want to get technical the UEL header adds little to no power. yea, sounds like a MRSP $500 header is well worth it :roll:

[rougeben83]

I'm the very opposite. R&D cost those companies a lot, but in most cases, it's well worth the price. Buy cheap knock offs if you want, but I'm buying the original, real deal.

I've had both borla and knockoff in my possession to compare the two. The borlas are made of thinner piping and the welds aren't as robust; I'm talking 3 spot welds to hold one pipe on the head flange kind of welds...which is usually one of the most common areas for the header to crack. Surprisingly, the welds are also very sloppy. However the bends are mandrel bent.

The knockoffs are thicker piping, have beefy, clean welds (stacked dimes) all around. The bends are only press bent though.

All in all, I was dissapointed to see this kind of work from Borla; a company that charges a premium over its competitors on similar exhaust products (dynomax, magnaflow, flowmaster, etc.). Its understandable to charge for R&D, but there's still some expectation to deliver a quality product in the price.

EDIT: also just to add, Borla has had to revise their header design 4 times now due to cracking and other issues...but there's still the occasional report of someone cracking a set.

[1-3-2-4]

I heard with the OBX header the output it not where the stock or borla headers are so you need to have something customed fitted is that true?

[jjs316]

I'm the very opposite. R&D cost those companies a lot, but in most cases, it's well worth the price. Buy cheap knock offs if you want, but I'm buying the original, real deal.

I've had both borla and knockoff in my possession to compare the two. The borlas are made of thinner piping and the welds aren't as robust; I'm talking 3 spot welds to hold one pipe on the head flange kind of welds...which is usually one of the most common areas for the header to crack. Surprisingly, the welds are also very sloppy. However the bends are mandrel bent.

The knockoffs are thicker piping, have beefy, clean welds (stacked dimes) all around. The bends are only press bent though.

All in all, I was dissapointed to see this kind of work from Borla; a company that charges a premium over its competitors on similar exhaust products (dynomax, magnaflow, flowmaster, etc.). Its understandable to charge for R&D, but there's still some expectation to deliver a quality product in the price.

EDIT: also just to add, Borla has had to revise their header design 4 times now due to cracking and other issues...but there's still the occasional report of someone cracking a set.

In these 4 revisions, did they weld more then the three tacks? or do you know?

[rougeben83]

I'm the very opposite. R&D cost those companies a lot, but in most cases, it's well worth the price. Buy cheap knock offs if you want, but I'm buying the original, real deal.

I've had both borla and knockoff in my possession to compare the two. The borlas are made of thinner piping and the welds aren't as robust; I'm talking 3 spot welds to hold one pipe on the head flange kind of welds...which is usually one of the most common areas for the header to crack. Surprisingly, the welds are also very sloppy. However the bends are mandrel bent.

The knockoffs are thicker piping, have beefy, clean welds (stacked dimes) all around. The bends are only press bent though.

All in all, I was dissapointed to see this kind of work from Borla; a company that charges a premium over its competitors on similar exhaust products (dynomax, magnaflow, flowmaster, etc.). Its understandable to charge for R&D, but there's still some expectation to deliver a quality product in the price.

EDIT: also just to add, Borla has had to revise their header design 4 times now due to cracking and other issues...but there's still the occasional report of someone cracking a set.

In these 4 revisions, did they weld more then the three tacks? or do you know?

The one that I had was supposedly one of the later generations, and it still had the 3 tacks. The other place that is prone to cracking on the borlas is the weld at the crossover pipe for the driver's side that goes in front of the oil pan; I believe the later generations were fixed to at least alleviate some of this problem. I've also seen some borlas with extra bracing between the two pipes as it crosses the passenger side, but I think those were done by owners.

Forgot to add, if you're buying the Borla new, you're getting their 'million-mile' warranty. The knockoffs don't come with any warranty IIRC, or at least come with one of those 30 day returns sort of deals.

[Reason]

With that "million mile warranty" you will be without a header for as long as it take for you to take it off, ship it out, the time for them to receive it, the time for them to actually handle it and fix it and the time to ship it back. That warranty is pointless, when you can go to a muffler shop and have them put a bead on the crack. You aren't paying for the warranty, but the idea of one.

[Perdue]

It can be argued that the welds on these headers are not quite structural to the degree that they would be on a rollcage. The problem lies in the fact that the metal itself is so damned thin. When my single port borlas cracked for the 3rd time, I took them off and took them to a local car guy that had a tig welder. He rewelded everything and even put in some cross welds to add strength. He even told me that he didn't know that it would hold, as he'd NEVER seen a header built of such thin material.

Long story short, he's a damn good welder. The headers never cracked in the original spot, or where he had redone the borla welds. They did end up cracking around the flanges though, so I took them off and cut them up with our hydraulic tools (jaws of life) at the fire department. I was out about 600 after buying the header, shipping, and paying for all the times I had to have it rewelded. I remember ordering that thing for like 250 thinking I was getting a deal. What a joke.

[Reason]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-I ... 0307141906 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-Impreza-2-5RS-Borla-Stainless-Steel-Header-99-01_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1406Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem320307141906QQitemZ320307141906)

[2.5GT]

yeah, that's the one i saw couple days ago. its ended now...

[ScaryFatKidGT]

wow im confused now idk what kind of header to get i think the nock offs probably but there are non

hey is this it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-EXHA ... 0290995829 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-EXHAUST-HEADER-98-05-Subaru-Impreza-2-5RS-2-5L_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1418Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem160290995829QQitemZ160290995829)

doesn't really seem much cheaper than the borlas

[BigLooga1]

I had Borla late revision headers and they cracked. Had my buddy weld it for 20$, just like brand new, can't complain. I baught used.

[99SUS SFD]

wow im confused now idk what kind of header to get i think the nock offs probably but there are non

hey is this it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-EXHA ... 0290995829 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-EXHAUST-HEADER-98-05-Subaru-Impreza-2-5RS-2-5L_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1418Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem160290995829QQitemZ160290995829)

doesn't really seem much cheaper than the borlas

No those are just OBX headers, a different manufacturer.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

oh ok

are they any better than borlas

[Colorado_Outback]

It can be argued that the welds on these headers are not quite structural to the degree that they would be on a rollcage. The problem lies in the fact that the metal itself is so damned thin.

Thats pretty much completely false, firstly theirs no point in comparing exhaust header welds and roll cage welds, your using different stock, different processes, its like comparing apples to oranges.
Secondly thickness of material has little to do with weld failure. Their are two main reasons welds fail. Improper prep and improper weld execution.

[Perdue]

Yeah, ok. I don't know what I'm talking about in the least.

My point was that those welds don't hold a lot of strain. My headers never actually failed ON the weld, but rather, just beside them. My point was that the EJ Series headers from Borla are absolute junk.

[Reason]

Strong welds mean nothing if it holds two pieces of thin metal together.

[Perdue]

Exactly. That's the point I'm trying to make. The Borlas are made of such thin metal it doesn't matter how good the welds are. Make the factory welds better, and it'll still fail.

[chuckthefuk]

Anyone got anything to say about these?

impreza rs 02-05

TopSpeed Pro-1 Version III Subaru Impreza T-304 Stainless Steel Performance Headers with TIG Weld

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/10/aa24_1JPG-2.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.ca/SUBARU-IMPREZA-02-03-04-05-2-5L-2-5RS-2-5-RS-HEADER-V3_W0QQitemZ200264757364QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200264757364&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

-Chuck

[2.5GT]

I believe a member has it on his ride. now they show up and i've already spend my money on coilovers :roll:

[rougeben83]

knockoffs are all pretty much made by the same chinese factory IMO, you shouldn't be all that concerned about which ebay seller is listing them...

[Reason]

I got mine from that seller, I had no problems with it.

[BigLooga1]

Buy used!!! then knockoff then Borla, a header is a piece of metal, no fancy stuff here.

I had a set of borla unequal (same as knockoffs) and the sound is AWESOME.

[Reason]

Buy used!!! then knockoff then Borla, a header is a piece of metal, no fancy stuff here.

I had a set of borla unequal (same as knockoffs) and the sound is AWESOME.

It's not a sound issue, it's build quality issue, and Borla UEL headers aren't as good.

[BigLooga1]

Borla UEL header are just as good as any headers out there, if the welds are leaking just patch em at a local garage it's not a major job.

Buy the headers only for sound, you will most likely not feel the HP difference, i didn't. The sound of UEL headers is a great addition to any subaru 2.5 NA, i would buy them anytime again, knock off or Borla.

[Reason]

Buy used!!! then knockoff then Borla, a header is a piece of metal, no fancy stuff here.

I had a set of borla unequal (same as knockoffs) and the sound is AWESOME.

It's not a sound issue, it's build quality issue, and Borla UEL headers aren't as good.

[BigLooga1]

I'm working night shift, i'm here all night baby, :razz:

Borla all the way!

[Perdue]

Borla UEL header are just as good as any headers out there...
Gotta admit...I lol'd. :smt042

[chuckthefuk]

So I found some shots of the knockoff UEL headers that were installed awhile back.

This UEL bolts directly to your stock cat. Sound is improved. More boxer rumble. Performance gains = none or at least not noticeable. Quality of the build seems nice. The welds are better then decent.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7408/dsc00280gr9.jpg




- Chuck