Help me diagnose strange problems..

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. so here is the series of events that I have been going through:

1. Replace both cats after 1 of the pipes broke from driving around with exhaust leak for a few weeks

2. After the new cats was placed on.. it seemed like the car vibrated / shook more when driving. Also.. when stepping on the gas pedal hard from a stop.. seems like it gurgles / is a bit sluggish..

3. CEL goes off for misfire in cylinders 1 / 3...

4. Replace spark plug wires / coil.. CEL goes away.

5. o2 sensor plug blows out of second cat (universal cat).. because the morons at the shop never tighten it down proper.. i have to drive home 1 hour with it this way.

6. Replace the o2 sensor bolt / plug.. Car seems to still be a bit sluggish when i stomp on it from a start / in low rpms.. while sitting in my driveway..also notice white smoke from the exhaust.. as if its not burning all the fuel off in the chambers..and some water seemed to come out of the exhaust (i think this is normal however since it sat for a few days in the cold)?

ALSO.. forgot to mention.. seems to run a bit better once its warmed up / ran for a bit.. i think the smoke also may go away by then.. but i'm going to check it out a bit more tomorrow. Anyone know if i should use blue / red loctite on the o2 sensor plug bolt? I don't want it unscrewing itself like the other one did.

Do you think it could be that because i drove around with the CEL misfire for a bit that the plugs are completely fouled?

Any other things that i should check? I'm going to try to get an exhaust clip soon here and post it up.. that way you can hear how the exhaust sounds.

Thanks!

[anothernord]

The white smoke makes it sound like there is coolant leaking into the intake or exhaust.

[d1giPhux]

Hmm.. had the head gaskets replaced already..i think it may just have been because the car sat for a few days.. but i will see if it smokes excessively or just stops after a bit tomorrow.

[decke48]

if the car sat it might just be water in the exhaust and hasnt burn up. anti-seize the o2 just tighten it down good no loctite (if you set on loctite go with blue so it will come out if needed. red is a b**ch to get out.)

[d1giPhux]

I think blue / red come out at 300 degrees anyways.. plus.. i never want it coming out since no o2 sensor will ever go in there. Anti-seize.. why would i want that? Wouldn't that just make it unscrew itself easier? I don't want it to come out at all.. ever.

I got a couple of videos.. for some reason.. the sound is kinda crap because the exhaust is so loud sounding.. or too much so for the video.. but here they are anyways:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/exhaust/exhaust2.swf

and just for comparison.. this is how it use to sound with the old stock subaru cats and SPT exhaust:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/exhaust/exhaust4.swf


I'm gonna try to get some better movies this afternoon and will replace them with these one.. i just shot these quick this morning.. and i know the sound is a bit annoying.. not sure why it sounds so friggin loud.

I don't know.. maybe I'm just imagining things.. but seemed like it was running a bit better this morning.. however.. the exhaust still does smell like fuel a bit when running.. and I'm not sure why it smokes more than it use to. Maybe I just need to get some new plugs since mine might be fouled? Or.. seafoam the bitch?

It just seems a bit sluggish when i'm trying to get on it.. also sounds louder.. and seemed to have lost some performance.

I'm not sure... suggestions needed =[

[Huffer]

do not loctite your O2 sensor. Anti-seize the threads and torque it down properly.

trust us on this, sometimes you do want it to come out - like when it fails, for example. Otherwise you'll need to buy a whole new cat + O2 sensor setup.

[d1giPhux]

No.. your not getting what I'm saying..this is a universal OEM spec cat.. it has 2 o2 sensor ports.. my o2 sensor is in the correct one.. this one just has an o2 sensor plug in it.. and i NEVER want the plug to come out.. there is no reason.. the hole isnt even in the right place for the o2 sensor.

[decke48]

you can loctite it in but just torque it down good. idk if loctite can survive 600-800F

[d1giPhux]

Probably cant.. i just dont want the stupid thing coming out again.. the other one.. I'm not sure if the exhaust shop just forgot to tighten it down or what.. but it popped out while I was driving.. not cool at all. I put this one on hand tight, then tried to tighten it as much as possible by hand with the very little clearance I had under my car yesterday..so.. not sure how good its on there, and if the vibration will do the same thing as the last one.

Anyways.. on to what the hell is wrong with my car..

what could be causing this? fouled spark plugs a possibility? It seems like not all of the fuel is being burned off.. since the exhaust smells a bit like fuel.. and I'm wondering if my plugs maybe got fouled up really bad from driving around for a bit with an exhaust leak and then when the car was misfiring..

Also.. another idea i thought about.. is it possible that when the other cat was burned up (so the other shop said).. that pieces of it went into the muffler and are stuck in there causing a restricted flow? Thats what the guy who sold me the cats said.. hes been pretty helpful in trying to help me figure it out.

I need ideas of what I can do to figure this out..just want my damn car back to running the way it was!

edit: gonna try to change out the plugs next.. what is the proper gap?

[d1giPhux]

So.. i changed out all 4 plugs today.. and here is the results. Seems like the idle got a bit better.. seems to have a bit more power.. and id ALMOST say it fixed the problem.. however.. RPMS still seem a bit sluggish in the LOW rpm range. Gonna try to change the CAI filter tomorrow.. as its pretty old and in crappy condition.

Here are some pictures of the spark plugs when i pulled them out.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/11/plug1-2.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/11/plug2-2.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/11/plug3-2.jpg

According to this guide.. which would you say these fall under? Seems like 2 of them are a bit more brown then the other two. The darker ones came from cylinders 1 and 3 i'm pretty sure.. so maybe this has to do with the previous misfire problem?

Spark plug guide(s) link:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg

http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm

Also observed something else weird.. the center part on all of the spark plugs was not round or flat.. but had a pretty deep groove down the center of it. It can be seen in the last picture best.

[Huffer]

Those are disgusting looking plugs. What the hell kind of gasoline are you running?

[d1giPhux]

The kind they have at the pump.. no.. actually.. i funnel it from a puddle near my home.. texas tea! no.. its just 87..

i'm assuming it looks like this due to the misfiring.. anymore insight? could the intake have to do with it? I got a new filter for it.. and its going on tomorrow. What else should i check.. fuel filter?

[decke48]

Those are disgusting looking plugs. What the hell kind of gasoline are you running?
i think he means like brand. shell, mobil, sunoco, off-name..

they have a bit of carbon buildup. most likely have carbon stuck on the valve to. time to seafoam

[d1giPhux]

yeah, sucks.. i should have seafoamed before putting the new plugs in.. because I will need new plugs after that correct? dammit.. and one of those plugs was such a pain in the ass to get out!

As for fuel brand.. i go with whatever is cheapest.. so anything from irving, shell, and citgo.. dont use exxon / mobil much as they are too expensive.

[99SUS SFD]

I dunno, I haven't seen the need to change my plugs after running Sea Foam.

[d1giPhux]

Also.. best way to do seafoam is:

PCV Valve > Engine RPMS @ 2k+ > 1/2 can in > Let sit for 30 mins > run engine 'hard'?

[99SUS SFD]

Yeah pretty much. I didn't let mine sit that long.

[99gtlimited]

sounds like your timing might be a little off...

[d1giPhux]

Just had the timing belt and such done by the subaru shop not too long ago when i had the engine basically re-sealed / rebuilt.. not sure if its possible to skip timing is it?

It seems to be better now.. i think the new cats may be causing it to idle a bit rougher because they are.. well.. brand new / higher flow.. since they dont have 150k of plugged up matter in them..

Seems like when i drive the car around now.. seems to be fine.. bit of hesitation left in the low rpm range.. but i'm gonna throw my new filter on here soon when i can see the sunlight during the day.. and go from there..

so.. next on the list.. new filter / sea foam / possibly new plugs.. again.

any other ideas would be greatly appreciated? would fuel filter do anything? pcv valve? anything else?

[99SUS SFD]

When I did my Sea Foam I took the PCV valve out and cleaned it up a bit. There was a lot of shit in it. Didn't notice any difference in how it ran but figured it was best to clean it out.

[d1giPhux]

I will probably do the same. Is there any special method for cleaning it.. kinda like how there is MAF cleaner stuff.. or can you pretty much just clean that beast out?

[sexystover]

is it still smoking? and those plugs are nasty man, definately seafoam the car. also just pull the plugs you put in (i know its a PITA) and check them an take pics/post them on here, that "groove" is very weird, but it looks like it was part of the plug design so i wouldnt worry bout it, but you deffinately were not getting a full/clean burn with those plugs in there

[Huffer]

Easier to buy a new PCV. They're only $2. Should be replaced everyso often anyway.

[d1giPhux]

Actually i dont think that groove is built into the plugs.. i forgot to look at my new ones.. but im pretty sure they were just flat. And you mean pull my new plugs? I think i'm going to seafoam it soon anyways..

It doesn't really seem to be smoking much anymore.. i'm going to start it up in the morning again and check it out.. as its a bit easier to see in the dark.. but so far it seems to be acting normal in terms of the white smoke that was coming out. Also seems like the fuel smell is gone from the exhaust.. and now it just smells normal.

Next up will be filter and seafoam.. also.. new pcv since its cheap anyways.

[decke48]

the lazer and double platinums ngk come with that groove

[d1giPhux]

lazer eh? are those copper.. because these ones were just $1.99 each.. i was hoping they were the copper ones.. dammit.

[decke48]

the lazer and double platinums are basicly the same. both have platinum center electrode. the difference is the lazer has a small bump on the ground electrode
edit* they could be v-power also

[d1giPhux]

Yeah.. they are the v-powered ones actually (remember that from the box).. since i tried to stay away from the 'lazer' / platinum ones. I'm assuming these ones are copper then? Dammit.. if not.. which ones are.. because those are the ones i INTENDED to buy.

[decke48]

v powers are copper

[d1giPhux]

So.. i seafoamed the car.. not much smoke even came out.. put the seafoam in at 2k rpms.. let it sit for about 45 mins.. then ran it.. smoked a bit.. but not really much.. hmm?

[d1giPhux]

Just wanted to update this thread as well. Took my car to the subaru shop.. and looks like the timing skipped 1 or so degrees on both the top and bottom cams? Thats what they told me.. so anyways.. here is the thread continued.. and hopefully this info may help someone in the future.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11845 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11845)