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gil_ong81
10-24-2005, 12:34 PM
1. how do i know if i need strut tower braces??

2. my car seems to "wander". difficult to keep a straight line over ripply or uneven surfaces, even on I-90.

any suggestions??

phi11
10-24-2005, 12:48 PM
2. Wheel Alignment

gil_ong81
10-24-2005, 03:06 PM
2. Wheel Alignment

that's one of the things i have thought of, and had done, but it has not fixed the problem.

scottzg
10-24-2005, 03:53 PM
something is loose or bent. Could be a wheel bearing, jack up the corner and shake the tire. Could also be an unbalanced or messed up tire.

sheepdog
10-24-2005, 03:55 PM
1. You need strut tower braces :)

2. have the power steering checked out, one time the fluid in mine was dirty and having it flushed cleared the problem up a bit.

Wiscon_Mark
10-24-2005, 08:20 PM
strut tower braces should be a thing to do when you have all the other suspension mods done. For about the same price, you can get a swaybar, if you haven't done that already (if you have, then consider it, but its not much of an enhancement unless you're really doing some serious offroading.)

I've heard that the rear strutbar (especially on wagons) is a bigger difference than the front, where its well braced by the frame.

BIG FAT EDIT, because I typed something wrong...

shazapple
10-24-2005, 09:27 PM
yeah... im going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you there

Strut tower braces arnt necessary in our vehicles because the strut towers are welded onto the firewall. Take a look at a late 80's prelude and see how much space there in inbetween the firewall and the fender, youll see why on some cars theyre useful. Only on wagons a rear strut tower can be somewhat noticable.

my car will 'follow' bumps in the road. Feels as if the car is being pulled one way or another, but my alignment is perfect. I think the bigger rim/tires you get the greater the tencancy to follow these cracks and ruts (people have said that the STi and EVO will follow every crack in the road)

RABID_SUB
10-24-2005, 09:35 PM
+1


ha ha! look I figured out how Wiscon_Mark has so many posts :lol:

Wiscon_Mark
10-24-2005, 09:40 PM
hey, I back my statements up...usually :lol:

RABID_SUB
10-24-2005, 09:54 PM
yeah... im going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you there

Strut tower braces arnt necessary in our vehicles because the strut towers are welded onto the firewall. Take a look at a late 80's prelude and see how much space there in inbetween the firewall and the fender, youll see why on some cars theyre useful. Only on wagons a rear strut tower can be somewhat noticable.

my car will 'follow' bumps in the road. Feels as if the car is being pulled one way or another, but my alignment is perfect. I think the bigger rim/tires you get the greater the tencancy to follow these cracks and ruts (people have said that the STi and EVO will follow every crack in the road)

I agree with sha_zapple

Wiscon_Mark
10-24-2005, 09:58 PM
so do I.

I really wasn't promoting the strut bars, but I didn't make that clear enough I guess.

Here's is my final statement:

They're only going to make a slight difference if you use them in the back of the wagon....however you sacrifice usable cargo space by doing so.

Subaru frames kick ass...

edit: I looked back at my first post, and realized that my thoughts branched off to two different sentences in one sentence and it muddled the meaning. Please reread.

shazapple
10-24-2005, 10:06 PM
Heres a pic of a (pretty damn nice) Civic (h22, drool) that shows the gaps
http://www.sdsefi.com/features/civic12.jpg

Now you see why teh ricezorz love teh strutbars :lol:

gil_ong81
10-24-2005, 10:06 PM
I don’t know how much else I can do to my suspension. I already have struts and springs, and a OB sway bar and KB endlinks in the rear.

OK. I can see what you mean that the front strut towers are welded to the firewall. I know that in the WRX, they’re RIGHT up to the firewall, but we have like a 4” well. The reason I ask is that there are times, especially during slower movements like climbing up a small curb, when I feel like my frame is twisting.

And come to think of it, you’re right about how the steering follows cracks, strips or ruts. AGAIN (damn this kid!! :D). And I do have 17 x 7 rims with 205 tires. I don’t know if the tires themselves make any difference… mine are Kumho 712s. And before you go off on a different tangent about how I'm not making use of the rims' width, let me just say that I already know this. These rims are leftovers from my WRX. 2 years ago, when I got the tires, I was facing some financial difficulties and was trying to re-use as much as I can. Thus, I slapped some economical tires on existing rims. There isn’t much more I’ rather prefer than to trade these rims and tires for a set of stock rims with some decent tires.

shazapple
10-24-2005, 10:09 PM
I have some pretty bald RE92 on right now and they tend to follow stuff, although beter tires (and definitly better suspension) would do it more.

if only my Midterm tomorrow was on Legacys :(

gil_ong81
10-24-2005, 10:13 PM
oh yeah, big things on my list are steering rack bushings, and a beefed up front sway bar and endlinks.

but my only reservation is that it'll make my car feel even more jittery instead of stable.

scottzg
10-24-2005, 10:43 PM
not enough wheel offset will make your wheels follow stuff too.

gil_ong81
10-24-2005, 10:58 PM
not enough wheel offset will make your wheels follow stuff too.

yeah that could definitely be a factor. these OZs that I have have a 48mm offset. BUT!! i ahd tried to fix it with a 3mm spacer, and the outside of the tires started to rub.

scottzg
10-24-2005, 11:43 PM
spacer makes it even less.


Wider than stock requires less offset to maintain the same centerline, but i suspect thats prolly a bit more than you want still.

gil_ong81
10-25-2005, 08:14 AM
spacer makes it even less.


Wider than stock requires less offset to maintain the same centerline, but i suspect thats prolly a bit more than you want still.


so you're saying that i need less than 48mm??

too bad nasioc is down, cos i remember seeing a chart recently showing the "optimal" offsets for the various widths of rims, and it was at least 50mm.

gil_ong81
10-25-2005, 10:24 AM
So anyway. Now I’m really stumped.

I got that 48mm offset figure from what I considered to be a fairly knowledgeable source. At that time, I wasn’t able to find it on Google, but now I have.

http://www.wheelspecs.com/specs/wheelmodels/849

So my offset is really only 42mm. No wonder my car handles funny. Maybe i should just say SCREW IT, and just go measure them for myself.


Now…. What do you guys think are my options? Spacers obviously don’t work, cos I get rubbing on the outside of the tire against the fenders. Is it possible or even reasonable (safe) for me to get the rim/hub milled down by 10mm??

Huffer
10-25-2005, 11:28 AM
42 offset is small, but it's manageable. 48 ET is better, anything that can get you as close to 55 is ideal.
What kind of camber etc are you running? Neg camber will add to the "tramlining" effect.

Strut braces - not needed on a sedan, and on the BD series, the rear strut brace is tough to find, and to fit - there is extra metal in the rear frame in the US cars, than in the JDM ones. Some JDM braces will fit, some won't. (trust me, I've tried this one out)

Rear strut braces are the BEST thing you can do in a wagon, especially a Legacy - they are like whale-tales. Adding a rear strut brace on a wagon would be MY first mod. Given that I added one at the very end of my upgrade path, and it still made a huge difference, tells me that.

gil_ong81
10-25-2005, 11:30 AM
What kind of camber etc are you running? Neg camber will add to the "tramlining" effect.

no idea, factory setting is what i'd assume.

tramlining is definitely spot-on in describing what's going on.

Huffer
10-25-2005, 12:28 PM
Isn't your car lowered though?
If it's lowered, it'll have negative camber naturally.
If you have more than -2deg, it'll grip and tramline like crazy.

(factory settings don't mean crap on Subaru's - the factory tolerances are HUGE)

gil_ong81
10-25-2005, 12:31 PM
yeah. i have H&R springs, but i frankly have no idea how much of a drop there is.

Huffer
10-25-2005, 12:34 PM
Probably at least 1.5" front and 1.2" rear.

Having just checked the photos of your car you sent me (I'm the rusted pillar guy), vs. my car in the parking lot (outside my window), you are definitely much lower than stock GT suspension.

I would check the alignment specs, and check the inside wear on your tires too. I am betting you'll have at least a -1.5deg of camber, if not more.

FYI - Firestone Mastercare have an alignment deal where you pay $200 for lifetime alignments on the car...anytime you want one done.
If you provide them with camber bolts, they'll align to your specs too.

Huffer
10-25-2005, 12:35 PM
tire/wheel calculator too
http://gs.tolan-hoechst.com/tirecalc.htm

sheepdog
10-25-2005, 03:23 PM
I run strut tower bars, front and rear, and I like them. I installed them with some other stuff too, so I cant really deny that there may be not much difference. It just makes me feel better.

scottzg
10-25-2005, 05:03 PM
im trying to say that spacers move the wheel in the wrong direction.

gil_ong81
10-25-2005, 05:21 PM
im trying to say that spacers move the wheel in the wrong direction.

right, right. i read your post wrong.

after looking more into it, i sorta have a better grasp of what's going on. don't know what i can do other than milling the bastard down.

Huffer
10-25-2005, 05:28 PM
Here's a link for you.
http://www.streetdreams.org/tech.php

I wouldn't mess with the wheel. By grinding it back, you run the risk of compromising the structure of the wheel. These are OZ wheels, afterall.

Your more expensive option, but safer one, is to buy a set with the correct offset.

Check your wheels out though, they should have the ET (offset) stamped on the inside or on a sticker.

white96gt
12-18-2005, 06:55 PM
The wandering, or grabbing grooves, is likely inner or outter tie rods, mine has the inners going bad
just my 2 cents
don

jey
12-19-2005, 01:32 PM
Wide and high performance tires will cause more wandering. Even my 205/55 16 Kumho MXs cause just as much wandering as my friend's old Integra on 17s.

Have you upgraded to a bigger rim? The wandering affects caused by changing tires/wheels can be fixed with a custom alignment, like adding caster.

Trying taking the spacers off - you're moving the tire in the wrong direction, as someone has said.