Cams???

[rat-sack]

can any one tell me if stage 3 cams are going to eliminate streed driving?

[slaytalera]

from what ive heard, im not an expert but im sure someone will chime in...stage 1 is more street, stage 2 is kinda for half and half, and stage 3 is strictly for racing purposes

[Huffer]

can any one tell me if stage 3 cams are going to eliminate street driving?

You can drive on the street, just don't expect it to be all that enjoyable:
http://www.techworkseng.com/Products/Su ... e_Cams.htm (http://www.techworkseng.com/Products/Subaru_Engine_Cams.htm)

Like I said in your other thread, you will need Engine Management.

Thread moved to Naturally Aspirated Drivetrain.

[decke48]

the problem with stage III cams is they have such high lift and deration. the idle would be to lumpy and you would either have to bump up the idle or just keep it up there. plus there made for high end power making them not good for a daily driver. stage II cams are for a mix of mid and high end power when keeping the low end in there. though it needs a piggyback EM to keep the car happy. stage I cams are for a mix of all power and they keep the stock ecu happy

[Qman]

the problem with stage III cams is they have such high lift and deration. the idle would be to lumpy and you would either have to bump up the idle or just keep it up there. plus there made for high end power making them not good for a daily driver. stage II cams are for a mix of mid and high end power when keeping the low end in there. though it needs a piggyback EM to keep the car happy. stage I cams are for a mix of all power and they keep the stock ecu happy

Stage 1 cams are a base low end torque grind in most applications.
Stage 2 is mid to upper powerband. Does not generally require EM but is useful.
Stage 3 is indeed generally a track use cam. All top end!

[rat-sack]

i don't mind getting the new ecu, i probably would anyway just for performance reasons. if i did stage 3 cams and upped my idol to smoth it out a bit what would i end up with? i want power, i want speed but i still want to be able to drive it on the street just fine.

P.S. really appreciate the help guys cause i'm new to the world of car building but i have a 99 outback legy with spun engine bearings. what better way to learn than just do it?

[Qman]

i don't mind getting the new ecu, i probably would anyway just for performance reasons. if i did stage 3 cams and upped my idol to smoth it out a bit what would i end up with? i want power, i want speed but i still want to be able to drive it on the street just fine.

P.S. really appreciate the help guys cause i'm new to the world of car building but i have a 99 outback legy with spun engine bearings. what better way to learn than just do it?

Stage 3 cams are not the direction you want to go with a DD. Stage 2's sound more like the answer for you. I also know a guy that can up the redlines on the factory ecu's. Not beneficial on a stock motor but add cams and a few other supporting mods and it can be just the thing to set you over the top.

Now is the time to add motor components then. If you want to make big power(200+ chp) you need to do things like heads and cams. Better intake and exhaust. A lightened flywheel and maybe pulleys. I don't really like to combine the two myself but that is my opinion. Even a piggyback EM can add power and better power bands. I use the PP6 from Rallitek. Easily adjustable with a laptop. I would also suggest spending a little extra and have the rotating mass balanced. This allows for smoother acceration and if you so choose a higher threshold for rpm redline.

To get bigger power numbers from an N/A motor you have to do more than simple bolt-on external parts.

[rat-sack]

i have the hole engine taken apart and all new parts, i won't be getting into the fly wheel untill i do the tranny swap. i won't be driving it hard till then either. i plan on haveing everything i can balanced. what do you mean by dd? i also would like to keep my options open for a turbo later on. since where on the topic what would you recomend for oversize valves?


P.S. Qman, are you from delta camshaft in WA?

[Qman]

i have the hole engine taken apart and all new parts, i won't be getting into the fly wheel untill i do the tranny swap. i won't be driving it hard till then either. i plan on haveing everything i can balanced. what do you mean by dd? i also would like to keep my options open for a turbo later on. since where on the topic what would you recomend for oversize valves?


P.S. Qman, are you from delta camshaft in WA?

DD= Daily driver

Yes, I am from Delta Cam. You should call us. 1-800-562-5500 M-F 8-5 pacific time

[rat-sack]

well, i'm a little embarrassed to admit this but i'm the colorado kid that just ordered the stage 3 regrind, valve springs and valves for the ej25d. regretably i didn't think about it till afterward. i knoticed that the valves where std size and then realized i didn't really know what size i wanted and started asking questions and found out that stage 3 would more than likely be too much power for dd use. which sucks for me cause now i will need to send them back to you and be out that much more. (pluss i kinda liked the idea. ;P) would you mind personal messaging more on this topic? i really do need to learn as much as i can.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

yea like people have said stage 3 cams have to high of idle and your car will stall out and you will always have 2 be monitoring your shifting i have also looked at cams and with what you ordered you seem to have some money so if u want POWER in a DD i think the best bet is stage 2 cams with valves and springs (so u can run higher rpm but still run lower rpm as well) and also a stage 1 or 2 porting of heads and valves then later if u still have funds higher conpresson pistons or if your going to turbo lower compression pistions. All that with a full 2.5" exhaust u should make 200hp easy (more if turboed)

[rat-sack]

(I hopt I'm not getting my self into more trouble here. I think he said this would be okay.)

With stage 2 cams, +1mm dishface valves and a proper piggy back ecu I should be able to turbo later right?

[Huffer]

:)

You can actually turbo just about any car... it's really going to depend on what your final compression ratio is going to be inside the cylinders. Typically, factory boosted engines have a compression ratio of 8.5:1 or 9.5:1... the NA Subaru's tend to have higher compression ratios like 10.1:1...

there are a lot of other factors involved like engine design and block strength too.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

yea i didnt mean u cant boost but like huffer said N/A's are higher compression so u can only put in 4-8 PSI maybe more but any more and u will blow stuf up if u drop it to around 8.5-1 like a sti u can boost up and get more power

but just the cams and valves alone will give u some good power

[rat-sack]

really? safely? even with the open block? cause that would be amazing. the pistons are supposed to be 8.5:1 are oversize valves going to change that? i think i'm planning on +1mm dishface valves and stage two port work with the stage two cams.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

what are u working on? the 2.5 gt n/a's are 10-1 and yea avo makes a turbo kit at 6 PSI for them with the open deck

[rat-sack]

EJ25D

[rat-sack]

at least as far as i know it's a EJ25D. i know it's not a gt it's the ej25 from an outback legacy.

[Huffer]

at least as far as i know it's a EJ25D. i know it's not a gt it's the ej25 from an outback legacy.

That's basically the same engine design. Do you know for sure your compression ratio?

[decke48]

EJ25D is 9.5:1 w/ matching head and stock size gaskets

ive seen the open deck EJ25D bare block stand up to ~400BHP with the right internal and CR

[rat-sack]

so if the pistons i am getting are rated at 8.5:1 and my head gaskits are std thikness (as far as i know) with dishface +1mm valves is that what i should be at? or does something change?

p.s. you guys are a great help and i really appreciate it.

[rat-sack]

oh yeah, and the pistons are a 0.5mm overbore.

[decke48]

well the pistion are still rated at 8.5:1 of the what they spec'd for (with stock heads and HG size). like are they meant for sti's, wrx(05+) or ej25D,1,or3?
what the applaction are they for. because it might change the compression rating

[rat-sack]

the order form says they're for EJ25 100mm (0.5mm overbore) 8.5:1. there was an option for ej20 wrx 92.5mm (0.5mm overbore) 8.5:1 and two options for ej257 wrx sti 99.5mm (std bore) and 100mm (0.5mm overbore) 8.2:1. i got the ej25 100mm bore 8.5:1 for sure.

[rat-sack]

By the way, I confermed that the pistons are for the ej25d but the rods i got were the wrong ones. The guy that's handeling my order has been working with me though and has helped me find the right rods at a better brice and is now exchanging me.

[Reason]

How is the build going? Did you order the Delta cams yet?

[rat-sack]

the build is going slowly, i work too much. i talked to jon at delta and he said the the stage three profile that he put on there for me is what he would run in his dd and to go ahead and try it out for 1k miles and if i don't like it he'll regrind them for $50 so i'm going to try them. still trying to settle on a standalone and some valves though.

[Reason]

Stage 3 cams?? Interesting, I'm curious about the idle and road drive ability of the car.

[sexystover]

cant wait to see this build finished because this is what i want to do, what crank/rods/pistons are you running?

[rat-sack]

stage 3, yes, i hope it works out. :twisted: i have cp pistons and k1 tec rods and an rs crank. does anyone know about stinger 4 ems?

[rat-sack]

it's been a while so here's an update:
still planning on stage three cams, +1mm valves, oversize pistons, stand alone ecu, turbo tuff rods, Etc. Etc...
also hoping to save up enough money to sleeve the cylinders.
the engine is the EJ25 out of the 99 outback legacy. DOHC heads, SOHC deck.
how ever, i found a 94 legacy with a blown EJ22 real cheap. i was wondering if the 5MT would match up to the 25 from my outback. any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
thanks guys.

[Qman]

how ever, i found a 94 legacy with a blown EJ22 real cheap. i was wondering if the 5MT would match up to the 25 from my outback. any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
thanks guys.

Yes, the tranny will bolt up.

[1996Battlewagon]

I'm liking this build! Have you decided on what engine management you're going to run? I've been looking around and I think I'm going to try Megasquirt for my NA build. Good luck and keep us updated.

[rat-sack]

i think i have decided on a stinger 4 ems. manley becase i can get it locally and that way if somethin happens with it i can just go back to the shop. unless someone has a good reason for me to use somethin else.

[rat-sack]

also:
1996Battlewaon, would you be interested in a blown EJ22 if i get the car for the tranny?
and Qman:
would that 96 tranny be worth $300, Pluss the caost of a rebuild, to put it in my car with my rebuilt engine?

[Qman]

also:
1996Battlewaon, would you be interested in a blown EJ22 if i get the car for the tranny?
and Qman:
would that 96 tranny be worth $300, Pluss the caost of a rebuild, to put it in my car with my rebuilt engine?

I probably wouldn't pay more than $100 for a tranny that needs rebuilding.

[rat-sack]

okay, i don't know that it needs rebuilding. i minipulated the gears around and they all felt smooth, no clunks or holdups like the sincros are out or anything. i was just asuming there would be money spent performancewise. which brings me to my next question, what would i need to do to the transmission for performance?

[Qman]

Performance gearing like a PG gearset. You really want a late model RS trans or even later WRX box. All the other stuff is kind of weak. How much power do you plan on making?

[rat-sack]

not sure yet
erything i got in it is:
RS crank
ACL race berrings
K1 tec rods
.5mm oversize CP pistons
MLS had gaskets
+1mm dishface valves
enduratec valve springs (i think, can't remember for sure right now)
stage 3 grind from you guys at delta (got the valve springs from you too)
port work
and i hope to sleeve the cylenders
compression ratio should be like 8.5/1 i think? (yet again, can't remember)
i do plan on turboing it some day, but not till i get the tranny swap taken care of and probably some other work done.

not sure if that can help you give me a clue on how much power i'll be making, or not, but i hope it will cause i need all the help i can get. :smt017

[anothernord]

Awesome build. Its great to see plans carried out instead of just talking about them.

If it all works out, you will probably have the baddest Outback in Colorado!

[rat-sack]

thanks, that's kinda how i think about it too. i'm a little behind on money right now though so it's going slowly. but i'm working on it. just trying to figure out all this tranny stuff.

[rat-sack]

Well guys, it's been a long time but here's the up date;

I'm sticking with the stage 3 cams, by Delta Cam, that I have, yes I'll let you all know how it goes,
I have a set of +1mm valves all the way around, can't tell you what brand off the top of my head,
I have changed my pistons to Arias STD bore,
I have A1 Tech turbo tough I-beam rods,
I have a Subaru RS crank shaft,
I have ACL Race Series Bearings,
And I have sleeved cylinders.

I am mod'ing my intake and I have stage 3 ported all in/ex orafaces.

I know this is taking me for ever but being in school has cut my time and I just haven't had the money to be able to just do this build, but I'm almost done.

Thanks everyone for all the help that you have given me.

[Matty2Hotty]

I know Delta is local here, am in Tacoma as well. What is the process of getting cams? I think am having the Guru shop rebuild or put in a new rebuilt motor due to 148k, leaking Oil gaskets, and hg leaking.

[anothernord]

Wow, I can't wait to see what this will put down. Are you on AWDPirates.net by chance? There is a big dyno day coming up at Harvey's shop in Longmont; you get three pulls for $45.

http://www.awdpirates.net/forums/viewto ... 92&t=46056 (http://www.awdpirates.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=46056)

[rat-sack]

Look 'em up, www.deltacam.com (http://www.deltacam.com). They have there number poasted and plenty of info.
I glad someone else is as excited to see this motor run as I am. And no, I'm not on awdpirates but I'll look them up sometime. Anyway, I don't think I'll be ready to dyno for a while, pluss I'm a little embarrassed to still have an auto in the car. I just don't have the money for the swap.

P.S. Thanks for the support everyone.

[anothernord]

Where in CO are you located?