The inevitable 2.5 Head Gasket Replacement =(

[TheAngryPidgeon]

So, as I posted elsewhere, I was having a problem with an inconsistent and jumpy engine temperature, and couldn't figure out what the problem was.

I replaced the thermostat today, but to no avail. After about 2 hours of diagnosis and trying different things, the two Kragen employees (one of which drives an '02 WRX Wagon and is engaged to a Subaru Tech) we've settled on it being the head gaskets.
:smt013

Luckily, due to my numerous visits and hours spent talking over the problem and purchases I've made in hopes of solving it, I've befriended the aforementioned woman, and she and her fiance have offered to do the job for me for less than the local shops would.

Here's the question:
While they're in there, I'm having them replace the water pump, what else should I have them do?

The timing belt was done 15k ago, I don't think I'll worry about that.

I could see replacing my clutch, and I'm thinking I'll do the tranny insert along with that. Any recommendations as far as clutch brands/models? I don't need anything super sporty, but I could go for a bit of an upgrade from stock.

Thanks for your help and input,

Phil

[KAG]

Phil, PM me how much they're charging you...I might be able to get you even cheaper through our shop out in Placerville.

As for a clutch, I'm getting an Exedy OEM replacement once mine gives out on me soon here. I was originally thinking about spending the extra $100-$150 on the Stage 1 Organic, but I didn't see the advantages over the OEM one with my kind of driving.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Thanks man, will do.

I was considering one of the Rally Series from http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/home.html (won't let me link to the Legacy Page unfortunately) which go for $195, plus the $40 for the Cryogenic treatment, but it says they fit 99-04 EJ25s. Being that I have a '98, I'm a bit confused as to why they don't offer one for my year.

Of all the things I expected to deal with in the first three weeks of owning this vehicle, this was not atop the list. :smt010

[danci1973]

So, as I posted elsewhere, I was having a problem with an inconsistent and jumpy engine temperature, and couldn't figure out what the problem was.

I replaced the thermostat today, but to no avail. After about 2 hours of diagnosis and trying different things, the two Kragen employees (one of which drives an '02 WRX Wagon and is engaged to a Subaru Tech) we've settled on it being the head gaskets.
My car seems to have the head gasket problem too... However as long as I'm in 'city' mode (ie. keeping the revs under 2000, not really accelerating hard, ...) nothing bad is going on.

As soon as I'm out on the highway doing about 140 km/h at ~3500 RPM's, the car overheats in minutes and when I stop and check the coolant, the reservoir and the radiator are pretty much EMPTY (and I checked before taking off)... And everything

After I topped it up with distilled water, I limped back home @ 90 km/h (under 3000 RPM's) and all was well. It was still OK driving to work today ('city' mode).

Is this the 'usual' blown head gasket behavior?

D.

[liquidracing]

nope

[Huffer]

I replaced the thermostat today, but to no avail. After about 2 hours of diagnosis and trying different things, the two Kragen employees (one of which drives an '02 WRX Wagon and is engaged to a Subaru Tech) we've settled on it being the head gaskets.
:smt013

Here's the question:
While they're in there, I'm having them replace the water pump, what else should I have them do?

The timing belt was done 15k ago, I don't think I'll worry about that.

I could see replacing my clutch, and I'm thinking I'll do the tranny insert along with that. Any recommendations as far as clutch brands/models? I don't need anything super sporty, but I could go for a bit of an upgrade from stock.

Thanks for your help and input,

Phil

I'm just going to throw this out there, but my wife is hair stylist. This doesn't mean I'm qualified to tell anyone about hair styling though.

If they're going to do the HGs, there's not really any need for anything else other than what the FSM says - that subaru tech should have access to that anyway.

If you can swing it, and the clutch is still ok, get a lightweight flywheel (9 or 14lb) for improved engine response. Shedding pounds from the front end is always a good thing.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I'm just going to throw this out there, but my wife is hair stylist. This doesn't mean I'm qualified to tell anyone about hair styling though.


This is true, but she's a fellow Subaru head like the rest of us here, and has done extensive work on her own vehicle, as well as finishing up her degree at a nearby automotive institute. I also spent about 15 minutes on the phone with the Subaru tech going over the symptoms, reaction to attempted solutions, etc. We basically tried everything we could short of pulling out the water pump right there.

From what I understand, due to the layout of the HO engine, Subaru's don't tend to exhibit many of the normal head gasket give-aways such as billowing smoke out of the exhaust, or the maple syrup smelling exhaust. One of the ways you can tell, is from a somewhat constant flow of air bubbles coming out of the radiator, as well as the cooling system undergoing intense pressurization once the engine begins to overheat. Mine was experiencing both of these.

If that doesn't sound like the head gasket(s) to you, please feel free to tell me they're wrong, I would love to not drop a grand or two into this puppy in my first month of ownership.



If they're going to do the HGs, there's not really any need for anything else other than what the FSM says - that subaru tech should have access to that anyway.

If you can swing it, and the clutch is still ok, get a lightweight flywheel (9 or 14lb) for improved engine response. Shedding pounds from the front end is always a good thing.

The clutch isn't horrible yet, but I can tell that it is a long-shot from in perfect working order. I think I might just make the investment and take care of it while they have her gutted. I will look into a flywheel as well though, thanks for the suggestion. Do you by chance know how heavy ours is by default?

Thanks,

Phil

[Huffer]

Stock flywheel is about 24lbs IIRC.

No worries about the lady - but in order to give credit to her skills you should have mentioned the information that she'd worked on her car a lot, rather than the fact that she was just engaged to a Subaru tech. Know what I mean?

Typically the signs of HG going or gone is a spiking temp gauge, and oil in the coolant reservoir.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Touche salesman, touche.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Wow.

I just got an estimate from a local shop: $2750.44 Parts and labor for the head gaskets/water pump.

If I want them to do my clutch as well: $4210.52

For parts alone, they want $906. Through Kragen, and with this nifty 25% off coupon I found, I can get the same parts for $488.21.

As you can probably understand, I called another nearby shop, and their estimates were (with my parts):
$1380 for the head gaskets/water pump
$760 for the clutch

I need to talk to my friend who wants to do the job and see what they offer, as well as check out a few other shops in town, but long story short: Don't go to Asian Automotive in Davis, CA unless you happen to have a money tree growing out back.

Edit

I just checked in with another local shop and they're estimate is:
Head gaskets (their parts with guarantee) - $1376.99
Clutch (their parts with guarantee) - $850

He won't be pulling the engine to do the head gaskets, which explains the expense of doing the clutch as well... I guess...

If I purchase an engine from Japan from, say, www.risingsunengines.com (http://www.risingsunengines.com) , he'll charge
$950 for the engine swap
$500 for the clutch (again guaranteed)

[jamal]

It certainly shouldn't be an extra $1500 just to do the clutch, especially with an original $2700 quote. To pull the motor, take it apart, and put it back together should not be more than 15 hours or so in labor. If the heads have to be milled flat, it's extra of course. And there is a lot of stuff you should replace while you're in there. I did my headgaskets a few months ago and the parts ended up costing around $600 at online prices from Subaru. I bought the headgaskets, a timing belt and tensioner, a water pump and gasket, valve cover gaskets, cam seals, a crank seal, valve cover gaskets and grommets, half moon seals, a thermostat, radiator cap, and new radiator hoses. I also replaced the timing belt idlers with some I had around that were in better shape.

So really a shop should be able to do all of that for not much more than $2000. If you have a service history on some of the other stuff it can be skipped. The timing belt, tensioner, and water pump cost $300 alone. I would recommend all the gaskets though. It's great to get under a 140k mile car and not see a single oil leak.

If they only do the headgaskets, and dp them in the car, it should cost even less, but I would recommend pulling the motor and going over eveything if you can.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

It certainly shouldn't be an extra $1500 just to do the clutch, especially with an original $2700 quote. To pull the motor, take it apart, and put it back together should not be more than 15 hours or so in labor. If the heads have to be milled flat, it's extra of course. And there is a lot of stuff you should replace while you're in there. I did my headgaskets a few months ago and the parts ended up costing around $600 at online prices from Subaru. I bought the headgaskets, a timing belt and tensioner, a water pump and gasket, valve cover gaskets, cam seals, a crank seal, valve cover gaskets and grommets, half moon seals, a thermostat, radiator cap, and new radiator hoses. I also replaced the timing belt idlers with some I had around that were in better shape.

So really a shop should be able to do all of that for not much more than $2000. If you have a service history on some of the other stuff it can be skipped. The timing belt, tensioner, and water pump cost $300 alone. I would recommend all the gaskets though. It's great to get under a 140k mile car and not see a single oil leak.

If they only do the headgaskets, and dp them in the car, it should cost even less, but I would recommend pulling the motor and going over eveything if you can.

Thanks, I neglected to update this with my current plan of action.

As of right now, I have purchased a long block with all the potentially faulty parts replaced (ie: timing, water pump, gaskets, seals, etc.) for $1995. I picked up an Exeddy Stage One Organic clutch and an ACT Streetlite flywheel for $683. I purchased the transmission snout insert for $135, and I found someone to install it all for $650 in labor.

Still not cheap, but it comes out to...
$1995+
$683+
$135+
$650+
=$3463

Which is almost exactly how much the shop would have cost for the long block and an OEM clutch, so I'm pretty stoked. I do still have to pick up about $100 of odds and ends such as the fluids, belts, hoses, but yeah... $3500 into a vehicle I spent $5100 on less than four weeks earlier... :smt021

[Zedhead]

sumbich! That a stiff bill

I dunno why prices are so high in Cali? I paid $2800 for our OBW about the same time as You bought Yours.