2.2 lifters collapsed, now rough idle

[jrobe]

My 95 2.2 got the tick the other day after I put some high mileage oil in. I figured the detergents in the oil broke free some crud. Went I pulled the valve cover all 4 on top were collapsed. I filled them with oil and fired it up and it idled so rough it shook the whole car for a couple of minutes then it idled smooth and 15 minutes later the tick was back.

I pulled them again all 4 were collapsed again, pumped them up and it idled rough again for a few minutes till it would smooth out.

What could make it do that? and there is no CEL

thanks Jeff

[liquidracing]

nope

[jrobe]

full of air not oil

[2.5GT]

Lifters properly tighten down? check vacuum hoses?

[liquidracing]

nope

[jrobe]

Why would a collapsed lifter make you think the heads need to be rebuilt?

[Okin DaVanh]

Why would a collapsed lifter make you think the heads need to be rebuilt?

How else would you replace the lifter (which, technically is located in the head).


I'd like to see what happens. I have a 2.2 as well.

[jrobe]

Replacing a lifter and rebuilding a head are two very different things,

Rebuilding a head for a collapsed lifter is like cutting off your foot because you stubbed your toe.

Collapsed lifters are common, rarly you need to replace them.

The thing that concerned me was the rough idle after the HLA were pumped up.

I hope that if someone searches for the "tick" they don't get the bad information and think that they need to "rebuild" there heads.

[Okin DaVanh]

Replacing a lifter and rebuilding a head are two very different things,

Rebuilding a head for a collapsed lifter is like cutting off your foot because you stubbed your toe.

Collapsed lifters are common, rarly you need to replace them.

The thing that concerned me was the rough idle after the HLA were pumped up.

I hope that if someone searches for the "tick" they don't get the bad information and think that they need to "rebuild" there heads.


The way I look at it is you were working on the head. Rebuilding the head would to me be, removing and replacing parts as well. It doesn't usally mean (to me) removing and tearing down the whole entire head. Anything removed and replaced on the head would be a rebuild. Weather it be minor or major. :smt023


So the next time I stub my toe, I'll have it rebuilt :wink:

[Plays_with_Toys]

I have not looked into it, but I would find a reliable subaru shop and ask them how you can clean out the oil passage that runs inside the rocker shaft (not sure if that's the technical term, but it's the metal bit that all the rockers rotate around). You might be able to run a metal bristle cleaner in there, or you might have to soak it in something overnight to break up anything in there. Cleaning this line is what my friend's father said (he's a master mechanic for a large subaru dealership) but as my problem cleared up after filling my lifters, I didn't bother pursuing it.

Beyond that, you might try switching to a diesel oil, as it has a much higher oil content. On your first run of diesel oil, change out your oil around 1200 miles as it might be incredibly dirty because of the higher detergent content. I've been running Delo400 15W-40 (mostly because the shop I worked at had 20 some odd single quart bottles at $1 a piece). As long as I stay on top of my oil level, the tick doesn't come back.

So- there's a point too- How much oil do you have in there? If mine is a half a quart low, then the tick comes back no matter what.

Hopefully that can clear up your lifter tick. The issue I don't quite understand is the idle problem you are having. You could try to fill the lifter and then you could pull your negative battery cable and reset the computer to see if it is the ECU having learned with the less opened valves, and isn't correcting for the greater air flow.

[jrobe]

I only saw one oil passage from the head to the rocker arm assembly, I put a little compressed air to it.

I'm going to switch the 4 bottom lifters with the top to try see if it is the lifters or the passage.

I'm going to run Rotella syn 5ww-40.

I think you might be "right on" on the rough idle. That is the only thing that could make sence.

Thanks for the input.

[Custom Import Heads]

A lifter tick does not require a head rebuild. The lifter(HLA) is located in the rocker arm of the phase 1 heads. There are a number of things that can be causing this problem. One, a worn oil pump. Two, low oil pressure as a result of excessive leaks. Three, dirty internals caused by poor maintainence. Four, a bad lifter(HLA). Several techniques can be used to remedy this issue. Seafoam cleaner can be added to the oil and run through the engine to loosen the sludge. Removing the rocker assembly and cleaning the HLA. It is very difficult to do though. Lastly, you can replace the HLA itself with new ones. If you choose the last one we can help you. We have them for substantially less than OEM.

You may find that once the lifter issue is resolved the rough idle may disappear as well.

Ken

[jrobe]

I ran 4qts of trans fluid in the crank case instead of oil to try to clean the crud out.

I never drove the car just let it idle for a 1/2 like 4 separate times and it cleaned it self out no tick after 6000mi.

The rough idle had to be the computer compensating for the collapsed lifters and the valves not opening as much.

Thanks to all,
Jrobe

[subie/legacy]

my 95 L has the tick. will the tick cause any damage?

[ouch1011]

No, it just means there is space between the valve stem and the rocker arm (known as valve lash). It doesn't cause damage directly, although, as was mentioned, it can be a sign of engine problems. If you have a chronic valvetrain noise problem, I'd check the oil pressure with a gauge to ensure it is OK. But OHC engines are especially susceptable to lifter noise, which is why many companies have gone from hydraulic lifters to mechanical (as well as reduced valvetrain weight and friction).

[subie/legacy]

yeah, I'm going to change the oil pump this sunday. just checking to see if I should be real worried about valve noise (tick). after new oil pump is in.
was also going to try other methods stated above, if it doesn't get any better.