FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 Vote 3: To Tune or Not To Tune

[ryu_haneda]

...and on to the next vote.

Should you be able to tune your car for each track, or should tuning be locked out?

[Mr. Sociable]

I voted to lock it out. This is simply because (for me at least) this isn't a super super serious competition. I'd like to be able to be competitive and not have to spend hour upon hour tuning for each individual track.


That said, it's probably a moot point if we only run 1-2 tracks per week because there's really no way to lock it out week to week that I'm aware of. I suppose we could all gift our cars to one person every week so we wouldn't have access to them, but that could be a real PITA.


EDIT: Most of my current car (or whatever car I choose to run) can't be tuned anyway, so I guess it would make little difference to me anyway. I still vote to lock it though.

[Plays_with_Toys]

I voted moot point. You can't lock out what the person decides to do on his setup in the upcoming week. The gifting thing is an idea, but then, you come to the race unprepared because you haven't been able to practice with your car.

I just ran 5 of my choices for my C class car on Sunset infield short. They all ran a 1:08 give or take .5 of a second. This is from a power hungry, low handling STi, to the highest handling C class car I have at braking:4.9 and handling:5.0 underpowered civic.

It pretty much summed up to me that C class was the way to go for this competition because the cars are so completely balanced, that my choice in car was simply a matter of what I feel comfortable with, and no matter what tuning happens, it will just make a person more comfortable with their car, but will not dramatically affect the cars.

[Perdue]

I voted to lock out tuning, but if you don't, just run one track per week and don't announce what it will be until we are in the lobby and ready to race...still, you could save and load tunes for tight or fast tracks pretty quickly, so I vote to lock out tuning. I've not done ANY tuning to my STi and it's still pretty quick.

[ryu_haneda]

I would have some tricks to help enforce a standard tune rule, I think... :smt002

Looking forward to this invitational. Sounds more and more like it's going to be fun and intense racing.

[decke48]

hmm C class.. i think tune should be locked out

[badbasser98]

I voted to allow tuning. However, I do not support tuning for each track. For those folks that know a lot about tuning right down to the fine details will destroy us lesser knowledgeable folks. Tuning should be allowed, because it can take a shitty car and make it competitive. We should be able to make a 'general' tune that has to be used for each track. So no one can tune for all acceleration for the short tracks and then speed for more open tracks. If you have a general tune you have to accommodate for both and won't have a stupid fast car, nor one that leaves everyone like they were chained to the start line.

Mainly, there aren't many cars that perform that well without some sort of tuning. If tuning is allowed, I feel there will be a wider variety of cars in the competition and make it more interesting.

[ryu_haneda]

I voted to allow tuning....
We should be able to make a 'general' tune that has to be used for each track. So no one can tune for all acceleration for the short tracks and then speed for more open tracks. If you have a general tune you have to accommodate for both and won't have a stupid fast car....

If tuning is allowed, I feel there will be a wider variety of cars in the competition and make it more interesting.

Well, if Matt's speaking up about tuning, then something's going on here. :grin: (I did actually vote for tuning too.)

What I'll probably do for the series is not announce the track that we'll be running, until everyone is in the lobby ready to go, indicators green. Then I'll switch the track over and get going. This will discourage any tuning prep for the track we'll actually be running because people won't know what it is. (At least, not until we get near the end.)

I'm working on an STi that's just going to have one general tune. If tuning is locked out, does that mean that I will need to drive the car completely stock, or just the way that the general tune is set (the options will just be grayed out)?

[Plays_with_Toys]

My understanding is that "tuning" refers to your setup and not the added parts. Only one of my cars started life as a C class car, and so you better believe I'm not running a "stock car". Those that have already chosen a close to the limits C class car won't have a lot of tuning available to them, but my cars are pretty much adjustable front to back (wings, damping, springs, sway bars, differentials, etc...). Of course when you start with a D class car it's easier to achieve this, and like I said, all my C class cars run within a second of each other. Just some have strengths in areas others don't.

The biggest problem I've had is that the difference in acceleration between a 4.0 and a 4.7 car is tremendous, where as the difference in handling of a 4.0 to a 4.7 car is hardly noticeable. I've been able to counteract this in my under powered cars by going to lower gear ratios, as most C-class cars won't top out their final gear on the tracks we're running.

[ryu_haneda]

Btw, here's my pace car for the competition:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/12/pace_car-1.jpg

(I might get some decals up on it later.)

[Plays_with_Toys]

pace car?

[ryu_haneda]

pace car?

I'm definitely thinking about it. Benefits would be a warmup lap to get used to the tracks for anyone not having run them, and also to reduce the chance of "chaotic crunching" (aka big crashes) which takes place when we go green.

Disadvantages: I wouldn't be "racing" along with everyone else. I could still probably mix it up with everyone else when running the track, but either way, I will probably void any points I get along the competition since I'm not in it to win myself.

Thoughts? Is a pace car even necessary?

[Huffer]

No need for a pace car.

[ryu_haneda]

Problem solved. I agree, on the basis of having run races where there haven't been very many crack-ups which happened at the starting line. My original hypothesis for this was that in my "non-SLi" races on Forza's LIVE service, a good chunk of the time, I saw that people ran into each other at the start (I got totaled twice, and once because I was behind an incredibly slowly accelerating car).

Most of the time, everyone takes off with a good line and similar acceleration profiles in our races, mainly and most likely because we are all picking one class of car with somewhat similar performances across the line (just more powerful or more nimble as you choose between cars in certain ways).

Okay, so to get back on topic, this issue is closed, and tuning will be "locked out". However, since this is an issue that we will not realistically be able to pull off, I have decided to leave this on honor to have everyone pick a "general tune" for the tracks we will be running, and again, like previously discussed, the actual track selection will not take place until people are in the invitational, car selected, ready to go. (Example: people meet next month on a Tuesday night, pick their cars, and toggle ready status so their indicators are green. THAT'S when I'll pick the evening's track and begin.)

Thoughts?

[Mr. Sociable]

Sounds like as good a plan as we can do. You've got my word that I'll only have one tune.

[Plays_with_Toys]

Ryu, have you ever watched TOCA/Australian Super V8 races? When they come to a track they will run a short 8 lap race on the first day, then a 30 lap race the next The 8 lap race determines starting position for the 30 lap race. I was thinking something similar could be done here.

We do a warmup 2 or 3 lap race. Then, on the next race, we race the full amount of laps, so that anyone unfamiliar with the course will have less of a risk of having an off in the first lap or two which ends their 10 lap sprint.

[Plays_with_Toys]

So.... I still have to say we really picked the best class. I've built up 7 cars so far, each one with a distinctive advantage in one area, and generally lacking in another and my lap times are still coming out about the same.

My lightweight "handling" cars can run the turns faster and can brake later, but, they can't get up speed in the sections between which is where the power house cars come in. They're slower into and around the turns, but can power up and out to the next one much better. So the question is- where do you want to get passed? :smt016 :smt023

[Plays_with_Toys]

hat trick!

I just decided on my car tonight. Now I have to work on paint. We need a registration thread so that those participating can register their numbers, and so we know who's actually participating for sure.

Anyway, as well as spending too much cash on finding a non-STi C-class car (I'm sorry, but I really hope the grid isn't 7 STi's and then me, cuz... well... that's boring). But! I also did the SL-i logo up on Forza. I'll be working on a number plate that uses the SL-i logo as well.

I won't have live up and running till after new years, but at that point, I'll have the number plackard done and then who ever is racing will need to gift me some car they don't care about having for a few days and I'll gift it back with the logos painted on so that you can then save them and use them for your cars. The number plackard will be taller than wide, and will be something to go on the front doors of the cars you are using (ala WTCC/BTCC/DTM/V8/Speedworld TC fashion)

[Perdue]

how do you transfer the vinyl group from car to car tho?

[Plays_with_Toys]

I'll put one decal on a side, and one on the roof. In the paint you'd click a shape then in the menu "highlight all layers" then "save as a new vinyl group"

[badbasser98]

I created the Registration thread.

For ease, here's the link (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=12333)