Widest tires you can run without rubbing (Auto-x application

[GT Wagon]

I'd like to hear from those of you who have been pushing the limits on tire width. What fits and what rubs. In my case, I have a '97 GT Wagon and I'll probably be using a 16x7 or 17x7 wheel. There's a very good chance I'll be lowering the car with Whiteline springs. I'm thinking of running somethign like a 215/40/16 or even a 225/40/16 if it will fit.

[Huffer]

Are you planning on rolling the fenders?

225 will fit, just. If you lower you may have to roll. The Legacy seems to have less room under than the Imprezas.

I was contemplating running 225 on my summer set/autox set, but I don't want any rubbing on tight corners.

I would say for you to go to 16x7, because with wagon on stock suspension you'll have quite a bit of bodyroll, and that will contribute to the possibility of rubbing. Plus, a 16" tire is less expensive than a 17" one.

When you lower the car, you may need to get some camber bolts for the rear...

[Perdue]

What class are you looking at? The highest an AWD vehicle can have in STX is 215 I believe. 225 would bump you into a higher class. Just depends on what mods you have done to your car.

[GT Wagon]

I may roll the fenders if its necessary. The extra width will give me that much more grip, one of the guys with his Impreza said he could feel the difference between 215 & 225's.

Class wise we're a little different in Canada than SCCA. Very close but not exactly the same. The cars are categorized in A/B/C/D class and each "mod" gives so many points and you eventualy get bumped into a higher class. As far as I can remember tire size (keeping same wheel diameter) doesn't add points. R compounds and larger than stock wheels do add points. In any case my car will more than likely be a D (lowest) class card, by some mystery of god the 05 Legacy GT is a C class car even though the WRX is a B class. My Jetta GLX started out in C at the bottom number of points and with mods (suspension, rear sway, R compounds) still manages to stay in C by 1 point

What I'm thinking of doing is getting my friend with the Impreza to lend me his wheel/tire combo and take a run around the track to see what kind of rubbing I get.

And Huffer, I'll probably go with 16's as they're cheaper and lighter. That said, there's a sale on ADR 17x7's for $99 Canadian ($80 US) which would make a tempting set of auto-x wheels.

[Cajual]

The offset of the wheel is going to be a major factor in determining if you're going to rub or not. I have't heard of one guy with a BD/BG who was able to get 225's without at least slight rubbing. There's not much room in the rear!

[Huffer]

^ true that, if you could find a 16x7 in 50+ offset, that'd have you really close to stock ET.

I'd roll the fenders anyway - it shouldn't cost much, and when done right (slowly) you end up with a very subtle mod that is peace of mind.

It's probably less of the wheel type/width, and more of the body roll. In static form, you could cram any width wheel in there and it'd be fine, but the first time the body leans over...

Keep us updated which way you go, always interested to see what people do. :)

[jey]

225/40 16 will fit just fine, I think, since it's a pretty short sidewall.

If you're talking about R-Compounds, you may run into trouble depending on how much you lower your car, since they tend to be a bit bigger.

I tried to cram 225/50 16 Kumho MXs on my BG/BK. They were sitting on stock WRX wheels, 16x6.5 +55. There isn't enough space in the back between the strut and fender, even if rolled. I had to put in spacers to prevent rubbing against the strut and with those there is no way to avoid rubbing on the fender. They also rubbed in the front, and at this point I had just given up instead of trying to roll those too.

It is a fact that the MXs are a big bigger than other tires of the same numerical size so that explains why I had problems vs. others. I sold those 225/50/16s that I couldn't get to work to a GC8 owner and he had a fit trying to get those to fit on his car too, even with 16x7 wheels.


Incidentally, SCCA Solo2 Rules allow up to 225-wide tires in both STS/STX, regardless of drivetrain configuration.


I'll admit that the 6.5"-wide wheel was not truely taking advantage of the 225-wide tires I tried to put on there, because after that whole experiment the 205/55 16s handled just as well.

One thing to consider, which you probably already have, is that a 225/40 16 tire is a significant change in the tire diameter, so you may have to do more shifting into 3rd on an AutoX course than before.

[GT Wagon]

Huffer - One of the local VW shops I've dealt with has a roller that they rent out for cheap. I'll probably give it a go next spring. I will certainly report back with my findings to share with the group.

Good write up jey. I have considered using Kumho V700's as they are proven to both stick and last well. Kumho's in general tend to be wider than their competition, its probably intentional to provide more grip with the "same" size tire.

[scottzg]

lowering the car doesnt affect rubbing since the total travel of the suspension is unchanged.

[Legacy4Life]

I'm currently using 225/50 16 on mine, the Assurance TripleTreds from Goodyear. Nice looking tread!

I had no problems in the front at all, but the rear rubbed bad. I added 5/8" spacers in the rear and that helped a bit, but still if I pushed it slightly or had someone in the back seat they still rubbed. I changed the shocks because I knew they were weak and that gained me some more stiffness, but still if I push the car in the corners or have two adults in the back they will rub, especially on heavy bumps.

To be honest, I wish after that I had just bought the stock sized tires. I actually think that the 205's looked better on the stock 6.5 rims then the 225's do and I have to be gentle with the car now. Not that I'm terribly hard on it to begin with though!

Anyone want my tires?

[GT Wagon]

I had no problems in the front at all, but the rear rubbed bad. I added 5/8" spacers in the rear and that helped a bit, but still if I pushed it slightly or had someone in the back seat they still rubbed. I changed the shocks because I knew they were weak and that gained me some more stiffness, but still if I push the car in the corners or have two adults in the back they will rub, especially on heavy bumps.

In my case I'll only be running the wider tires at the track so there will not be any passengers in the rear, maybe a ride along rookie in the front the odd time.

That said, I'll certainly be pushing the car very hard through the corners :) I intend on using the stiffer Whiteline springs so that should buy me some stiffness. I think the best plan of action is to borrow the Kumho's from my buddy and take a couple of runs around the track to see how badly it rubs. I'd hate to buy tires only to resell them at a loss, I've seen a few WRX wagon owners go through this, the sedan has wider fenders in the rear but the wagons don't so they can't run as wide a tire.

[Huffer]

lowering the car doesnt affect rubbing since the total travel of the suspension is unchanged.

You're right, but when cornering, the body has to "tuck up" more of the wheel under the arch (inside wheel), that's typically where the rub occurs, on the outside part of a negatively cambered tire.

A car on higher springs has more rollover angle to work with (according to my theory).

[sybir]

I'm running 235/40/17 Hankook RS2's on 17x8 ET48 wheels. I'm in the weeds on Tein Flex's, and have no rubbing issues after some rear fender clearancing (I rolled, then pulled the rear fenders.)

Suspension has more to do with it than you think. That set of comfortable lowering springs eats through its available travel much quicker than a stiff coilover; it's definitely a tradeoff, but if you want to run big meats, you need a stiff suspension to keep that tire situated in the open part of the wheelwell ;)

I've seen autocross guys run 275's on GC RS's, and 295's on STi's, where the wheel is sitting physically outside the fender, becuase their suspension just doesn't let the wheel get near the top part of its travel.

My car definitely sits flush, and, FWIW, this fitment is more extreme than my 18x8's, as those would fit on a car with just a minor fender roll and coilovers.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2006/08/DSCF2995JPG-1.jpg

flush!

BTW, sorry to be whoring out the car, I jsut came over here and saw a bunch of FAQ's on fender rolling and max tire size and stuff, and figured I could add somehting to some of them :)

[subieyacht]

im on 225 45 17's, and lowered on h&r's. i had to roll my rear fendersout, and my im going to have to do my fronts too, but it is definatly worth it

[GT Wagon]

225/50/16 R compounds fit, I borrowed a set for a track day and they cleared no problem.

I'll also tell you what doesn't fit. 245/45/17. At the end of today's auto-x I swapped on someone's wheels from a '02 Legacy. As soon as you tighten the wheel it rubs up on the strut tower so there's no way in hell you can run them.

[JoeT]

I may roll the fenders if its necessary. The extra width will give me that much more grip, one of the guys with his Impreza said he could feel the difference between 215 & 225's.

Class wise we're a little different in Canada than SCCA. Very close but not exactly the same. The cars are categorized in A/B/C/D class and each "mod" gives so many points and you eventualy get bumped into a higher class. As far as I can remember tire size (keeping same wheel diameter) doesn't add points. R compounds and larger than stock wheels do add points. In any case my car will more than likely be a D (lowest) class card, by some mystery of god the 05 Legacy GT is a C class car even though the WRX is a B class. My Jetta GLX started out in C at the bottom number of points and with mods (suspension, rear sway, R compounds) still manages to stay in C by 1 point

What I'm thinking of doing is getting my friend with the Impreza to lend me his wheel/tire combo and take a run around the track to see what kind of rubbing I get.

And Huffer, I'll probably go with 16's as they're cheaper and lighter. That said, there's a sale on ADR 17x7's for $99 Canadian ($80 US) which would make a tempting set of auto-x wheels.

Sounds like you ran the either the MSOC or the MCO series, for the regional championships we use the CASC-OR rule sets, which is very similar to the SCCA rules.

The winning FSS car in the Canadian Autoslalom Championships for 2006 was a Subaru Legacy L wagon, sporing 205-50-15 Kumho V710's. Here in FSS they are allowed to use coilovers, with adjustable perches. So the combination of V710 and Whiteline coil overs netted Trung (Driving Andrew R's car) the win. The owner of the car placed 2nd. Oh yeah, his car was a 2.2L Leggy.

Smaller diameter wheels will give you a better gearing advantage, which helps in acceleration, and lowers the car slightly.

Hope this helps.

(Just rang a bell... Your'e username on the Ottawa Subaru board is "Legacy" right?)

[GT Wagon]

Joe, how quickly you forget :lol: I'm Alexxi and those were your 225/45/17's I tried to stuff on my car.

[JoeT]

Yeah, I remember... I'm getting old, you know.. LOL

[The Korean]

So I just bought a set of Rota Subzeros that are 17 x 7.5 with a 48 offset... assuming I roll the fenders could I run a 225 tire... or even a 235 tire on a 99 Wagon with stock suspension?

[sybir]

235's. definitely not. The car isn't firm enough on stock suspension to keep the wheels out of the fenders, and without a little bit of camber, you're going to be all over the fenders on both ends. My rear fenders are pulled out quite a bit to clear the setup above, and a 7.5 makes the tire bulge more which is worse for clearance on 235's.

I'd stick to a narrow 225 if you can find one.

[subaru_terrence]

Will SPEEDLINE CORSE 17" 5x100 45 offset fit my BE? Should I get 215 or 225 for rubber?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Will SPEEDLINE CORSE 17" 5x100 45 offset fit my BE? Should I get 215 or 225 for rubber?

Stop crossposting.

I already gave you an answer in the other thread.

[subaru_terrence]

Sorry about that and thanks for your help

[Brockley]

Thread revival!!!

Im looking at a set of
17x7 wheel
off +48
225-45-17 tire.

on a stock suspension 97GT wagon. looking to do Coils soon (now if needed to clear)

with the 48 offset, am i going to clear, or will I rub? will i need to get my roller out?

PM please!

[Huffer]

You might rub, but with the coilovers you might be ok.
225 is pretty wide in the rear, depending on how low you go.

I would just roll the fender - it's not like it's a huge difference visually!

[Soarer]

Does anyone know of any OEM wheels in 17 or preferably 18 inch with the correct offset from any manufacturer such as audi, volkswagen or preferably subaru that would be a good fit for a 225 tire on a 98 GT wagon? I like to stick with oem wheels because they are easily replaced and generally very high quality. I'm willing to roll fenders if necessary.

[jey]

17 inch wheels:
- Legacy GT and 3.0R starting in 2005
- Outback XT and 3.0R starting in 2005
- WRX: Optional starting 2003, standard starting 2006
- Forester: 2008 XT Sport

[Soarer]

Hey, Sybir

Dude, you've had more wheels on your ride than anyone I've ever known! I checked out your website with like 20,000 pics of your ride. Each one with different wheels. Do you think I could rock some 18x8 oz superlegara's with 235/35/18's with 48et?

[pheonix991]

HOLY POST OUT OF THE BLUE BATMAN!!!

Would it be possible to get a 17x8 or 17x9 rim on a BD with a 1-1.5inch drop?

[Soarer]

Sybir has just dropped some serious knowledge. Nice work brother.

[Mr. Sociable]

Man, we need to sticky just that post, just so some of the questions might not be asked over and over.

[sybir]

Heh, I've just been through it with my own cars as well as friends. If I can keep people from making mistakes that cost them their hard-earned money, I'm happy to. Bottom line is that anything over a 225 or a 7.5" rim is an aggressive fitment on the BD/BG's; it looks like the BE/BH has a little more leeway, and the BL/BP's have tons of space.

I won't even get into BC/BF's, as my suspension setups were so low that I rubbed on RE92's on stock RS wheels ;) A 215 is pushing it on those cars.


Also, keep in mind that there's aggressive fitment, then there's "hella flush" which is the latest thing to make the jump from Euro/Nissan, etc groups. I'll reserve my judgment as even with all my wheel swaps, I'm still function over form and I don't like the lack of protection you get with stretching a narrow tire on a rim to make it fit a fender contour; cars with multilink suspensions can pull it off fucntionally with better camber curves, but on strut cars it's trying too hard and reduces utility becuase you have to limit yor travel too much for my taste. It looks crazy, don't get me wrong - it's just not something I personally choose to do, and it's even farther down the path of needing to know exactly what you're doing with suspension and setup, and commitment to make it work. There's a reason DOOK is selling his wheels and tires as a package; he knows what he's doing, and those wheels won't work without a stiff suspension to go with them.

I consider "aggressive" anything that requires significant fender mods (more than pulling the black strip) or stiff suspension/extra camper to allow no interference at any point in the suspension travel. If you put in the work, it looks awesome. My car is low, has big meaty tires on wide wheels, and because I did all of the associated work (correct camber, adjusted ride height and preload, fender mods) I can load it up with 5 friends and all their crap and still drive my car like it's intended; I can load it up with all of the support gear needed for a trackday (jacks, ezups, tools, lights, wheels/tires, etc) and not worry about it, and that makes all the effort worth it.

[Kraziken]

Just to add to this very informative post.

I was running 215's on 18x7.5. I did it mostly to avoid rubbing.

A few weeks I ran over a bolt, which required me to get 4 new tires. I bought the same tires, but decided to try 225.

The buttdyno seems to not only register a nice increase in handling, but bumps and holes in the road are absorbed better with the slight increase in sidewall height. I do need to roll the fenders now, but the comfort increase in day to day driving is worth it.

[Reason]

What size sidewall were you running Kraziken?

[Kraziken]

both sets were 40 series. I didn't think there would be much change in feeling at all, but it was pretty dramatic.

[Reason]

I want to keep close to stock diameter. It looks like 215/40/18 is what I'm looking for.

[GothicVash]

ok i know you guys are all goin towards that lowered clean raceing everything i was wondering if there were any small truck tires like super swampers that would fit an outback wagon and solid aluminum rims that would hold said tire to the car

[B's Legacy Wagon]

so i am looking to buy some new rims and tires and think i have an idea what i whant and what iam looking for but the numbers dont really mean any thing to me and i am looking for your guys experiance tell me what you think.
so i am running a stock 2000 legacy wagon L not lowered at all and stock suspension. i would like to fill up the fender wells alittle better than the stock rims and tires with out lowering at all.( the wife wont let me lower it because of rain and snow we get in NW. idont really whant the rims to stick out to much if i can keep flush with the body line. or possibly a little wider once i add body kit(it may make the width a little wider??)
i plan on getting some OZ superturismo GT multi spoke in chrome/silver or beyern rims:[attachment=1:yueu5x6u]Beyern rims.jpg[/attachment:yueu5x6u] I think from what i looked at the rims will be 18x8 and i planned on trying to fit 215/40-18 yokohama S.drives: [attachment=0:yueu5x6u]yokhama S.drive.jpg[/attachment:yueu5x6u]

So i think this will work from using the tire calculater in one of the other posts. but also what i am looking for will these still give a good ride for daily driver or is the tire to thin making it ruff? also will it rub the struts or the fenders if so i may go down to 17' rims. Also not sure if i can play around with 225/40-18 or like 215/45-18 just not sure. any help or input will be greatly appreciated thank you.

PS do my attachments show up or do i need to go threw photobucket?

[jey]

Attachments are working - 18s are going to ride like crap.

[B's Legacy Wagon]

Attachments are working - 18s are going to ride like crap.

Just currious why they ride like crap haha. is it becuase there is less tire to absorb the bumps ie small tire and side wall? mostly reason i was going to go big was to fill the fenderwell not as much gap as the stock ones have? comments..

[httrdd]

You really do not have enough power to turn over 18" tires comfortably. If you plan on a swap or beef up your engine I would say go for it!

[B's Legacy Wagon]

not enough power to run 18" iam putting them on a subaru with a boxer engine lol. rims are only 20.6 pounds not sure how much that is ovrer stock tire weights maybe 5 pounds. so 4 rims would make just over 80 pounds additional weight,thats less weight than any of my kids that will be riding in the car. i can understand slow down alittle. i had a toyota pickup with 4cyl. and ran 36" high and 15" wide tires and rims.
Any engine mods i have plans for are down the road mybe 10th on my list of stuff to do.

I can see maybe i posted this in the wrong thread(says auto-x application)but the small replys arent really answering any questions i had.

[Reason]

Eff speed, if you look good going slow or standing still who cares lol

[httrdd]

Not about the weight it is about having to turn 18" wheels. The larger the tire the harder it is to accelerate

[jey]

Attachments are working - 18s are going to ride like crap.

Just currious why they ride like crap haha. is it becuase there is less tire to absorb the bumps ie small tire and side wall? mostly reason i was going to go big was to fill the fenderwell not as much gap as the stock ones have? comments..

Yes you answered it yourself, the tire is actually an important part of your suspension. The less sidewall you have the more things are going to get transferred to the car and put wear on your other suspension components.

[httrdd]

^ Good point!

[B's Legacy Wagon]

Attachments are working - 18s are going to ride like crap.

Just currious why they ride like crap haha. is it becuase there is less tire to absorb the bumps ie small tire and side wall? mostly reason i was going to go big was to fill the fenderwell not as much gap as the stock ones have? comments..

Yes you answered it yourself, the tire is actually an important part of your suspension. The less sidewall you have the more things are going to get transferred to the car and put wear on your other suspension components.


Perfect this is the type of answers i was looking for with a little of the reason behind the answers. that why i wanted to post this up before i buy. rather that hey i bought this and find out the bad side afterwards thanks guys.

So to continue my research for rims and tires. these are my parameters i looking to achieve/overall goal. and suggestions??

Still keeping the suspension stock no lowering i would like to still fill in some of the gap between the tires and the fenderwell. I dont want to have to roll fenders or worry about the tires rubbing on the struts/shocks.It is still a dailly driver so comfort and handling are main concern( no track ) I can see the reasoning behind the 18" now being to big and the tire to small will it make much a diffrence to go down to 17" adding little extra meat to the tires? or should i go down further to 16" i thought the stocks where 16" ? The width i would like to keep flush with the body but. down the road ill be getting a full body kit(front bumper/sideskirts/rear skirt or lip) so not sure if they add width to the car in those areas or if the are pretty much flush?

Thanks again for the input and help guys. going to go paruze readers rides and see if i can find another 2000 wagon to check out there stuff.

[Brockley]

just throwing it out there for people wanting to go fast in auto-x:

a nice sticky 205 (azenis/RS-3/etc.) is going to be way better than a cheap 225. If you want to keep it cheap, look into a smaller width possibly- plus you will get less sidewall flex.

And the whole 18" wheel riding like crap- BS. True, if you go from a 16" wheel with all seasons to an 18" with summer tires there will be a HUGE difference in ride- more responsive, and feel more of the road with an 18". But the "18's will make your car slower" argument is just stupid as crap. If you buy the correct size tires, you will not be increasing the overall diameter of the tire. The only thing that could affect you at that point would be the unsprung weight difference.

my $0.02

[jey]

or should i go down further to 16" i thought the stocks where 16" ?

Stock 2000 Legacy L wagon has 15" wheels