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Huffer
11-04-2005, 10:33 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cusco-Ad ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cusco-Adjustable-Front-Camber-Plates-Subaru-Legacy_W0QQitemZ8012224650QQcategoryZ33581QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Cusco, and you BE guys always complain of the lack of support. :D

pdawg
11-05-2005, 07:03 PM
what are these going to do for me?

Huffer
11-05-2005, 11:00 PM
You do know what camber is, right?

pdawg
11-06-2005, 01:58 AM
Sort of, If I new exactly I would not have asked the question. what I really don't get is how adjsting camber in and out changes the handling and why.

scottzg
11-06-2005, 03:05 AM
You do know what camber is, right?

that misses the main effect of the plates- removal of about 1.5" of damped suspension travel in the form of topmounts. Adding extra camber can be done far more easily with bolts; my marginally lowered car can get over -3 degrees of camber in the front, plenty. I'd think it would be more interesting if they could be rotated and used to dial in some extra caster.

Wiscon_Mark
11-06-2005, 12:12 PM
caster? Is that like the opposite of camber?

Huffer
11-07-2005, 01:32 PM
Caster is the angle of the strut to the body - kind of like a pendulum on a grandfather clock.

pdawg - sorry - I thought camber was a widely known term. My bad.

www.howstuffworks.com (http://www.howstuffworks.com) is a really great site for this kind of stuff.

BAC5.2
11-25-2005, 01:46 AM
Scott - 3 degrees? Using aftermarket Camber bolts, right? Using stock camber bolts, and my plates, I am able to get 2.6 degrees negative. I'm running -2 degrees, and +5 degrees of castor.

Here is a breif rundown....


Camber. Imagine a part of your suspension. Front suspension is easiest to envision.

Look at the car from the nose on. Camber can be adjusted in two ways.

Camber, first of all, is the "lean of the tire". The relationship of the top of the tire to the contact patch. Imagine a line perpindicular to the ground. The amount that the center line of the tire varies from that line is the camber angle. Draw a line down the center of the tire, and a line down the center of the tire that intersects the ground at 90 degrees. You'll see these lines cross at the hub of the wheel. The angle of difference, is the camber angle. Negative camber looks like this / \. Positive camber looks like this \ /. That would be a frontal view of both wheels of the car.

What this means, is that when you turn, weight transfers to the outside of the tire. So you have the angle, causing the tire's contact patch to focus weight more towards the center of the car. When you turn, weight is transfered, and it attempts to force the tire into the ground. More camber allows more of a "biting" edge on the tire. This allows you to turn "harder" before losing grip.

To much negative camber can lead to tire wear, but in testing, the biggest thing that kills tires is incorrect toe, not camber. Another downside, is breakaway. Lots of camber means you can really load up a tire.... until is gives, and you overcome the coefficient of friction of the rubber, and slide. Lots of camber makes this line more difficult to walk. Usually, you build into camber, until you find a setting you really like.

So camber can be adjusted in two ways. At the knuckle with bolts (stock has bolts, but they are limited in range. There are aftermarket bolts with a wider range), or at the strut top with adjustable plates.

Camber plates do a few other things too. They remove a compliant material from the mix (rubber), and remove undamped material, which leads to greater suspension percision. They also increase NVH transmitted into the cabin.

Caster is the fore and aft relationship of the contact patch, and the rotational axis.

Picture a shopping cart. The contact patch of the wheel is behind the rotational axis (the point where the wheel rotates around). That is Negative caster. Negative caster is bad. It's grounds for LOTS of twitchiness and horrible driving characteristics.

Positive caster is like a chopper motorcycle. The contact patch is ahead of the rotational axis. Positive caster is good. It helps the car "want" to track straight ahead. But the downside is increased steering effort, as you need to fight the natural tendancy for the wheels to want to go straight.

Caster is known as "rake" in the motorcycle world, and "headtube angle" or "head angle" or "steer tube angle" in the bicycle world.

Positive caster also has another cool effect. As you turn the wheel, the tire leans over, increasing negative camber as the wheel is turned.

OEM spec for camber is under 1 degree for most cars (the STi is like 1.2 or something). OEM spec for caster is around 2.5 degrees.

Toe is another alignment term, and it's the kick in or out on the tire. Looking from above, it resembles caster. Toe Out means the fronts of the tires are pointed away from eachother (and the rear of the tire is pointed towards one another). Toe In means the opposite. Toe out helps rotation and increases stability. Toe In helps turn in and reduces stability. Toe will wear the SHIT out of your tires. For a WRX, 1 tenth a degree of camber change, is 4 tenths of an inch of toe change. It's similar for most subarus.

The best setting I have found for toe is between 0.00" and 0.02". I run my Legacy and my Forester at .02" of toe out. It's the most stable and tire friendly setting I have used.

Sorry this post was somewhat garbled, but hopefully I helped.

Oh, and the bolt pattern for all EJ powered cars is the same on the strut top, but the orientation of the bolts is often different. Noltec Camber/Caster plates are universal for Subaru's, as you simply move the entire upper mount wherever you would like. I'm running them in my Legacy, and I got them off of a guy with a WRX.

scottzg
11-26-2005, 09:20 PM
Scott - 3 degrees? Using aftermarket Camber bolts, right? Using stock camber bolts, and my plates, I am able to get 2.6 degrees negative. I'm running -2 degrees, and +5 degrees of castor.

yeah, its really slightly less than 3 degrees, still more than i need though.