misfiring and loss of power

[97scoob]

i have been having a problem with a loss of power ever since i pulled my motor to do clutch and hg's in october. i have tried almost everything but i cant figure out what it is. it has been idling rough and i have a loss of power under 3 grand. feels like a misfire sometimes, but other times it idles perfect. it always feels like there is a loss of power under 3 grand though. i keep getting a cylinder 1 misfire code no matter what i do. i drive my car like 50 miles a day backroads, and it is wierd. sometimes the light will come on, i clear it, fine for a month or 2. sometimes, fine for a day and then back on. things that i have done/replaced:
fuel filter
air filter
coil
plugs (twice)
wires (twice)
pcv valve
redid timing
cleaned MAF
replaced both o2 sensors
checked for vacuum leaks, couldnt find any
installed a vacuum guage, vacuum seems fine holds a constant 17(insert units here [psi?]) at idle
i am sure i am forgetting some things
no matter what i do, cylinder 1 misfire comes back. it is really annoying, and i want to figure out what is wrong!!! any help is appreciated. thanks

[97legacygt]

Fuel injector maybe?

[Reason]

No CEL's I assume since you didn't mention of one?

[97scoob]

i have been getting a CEL. from my original post:

i keep getting a cylinder 1 misfire code no matter what i do. i drive my car like 50 miles a day backroads, and it is wierd. sometimes the light will come on, i clear it, fine for a month or 2. sometimes, fine for a day and then back on.

Fuel injector maybe?
that is exactly what i was thinking. i have a spare fuel injector and rail i think, and i think i will throw the injector in today and see how it runs. the only thing i can think of if it isnt that is like fuel lines?

[97scoob]

so my check engine light is confusing me now. it comes on if i let my car idle for a while because it starts to misfire, but then after driving it for like a day it turns itself off. then it comes back on again when i let it idle for a while. :smt017
i ran some injector cleaner through my fuel system, and that didnt seem to do anything. i think i am just going to bring it to a mechanic tht is a family friend and have him hook it up to his like supercomputer that will basically say what everything is doing in my car because the more i think about it, it kind of seems like a sensor or something... i dont know why it would only misfire on cylinder #1 though... this thing is giving me a big headache... :cry:

[97legacygt]

Try swapping injector #1 with another one. If it still misfires at cylinder 1, something else is wrong. But if it moves to the cylinder where you put the injector, I would say that the injector is bad.

[d1giPhux]

I had this same issue with my car randomly.. it would misfire in cylinders 1 & 3.. loss of power under 3k rpms.. very very sluggish.. and you could see my shift lever moving around a ton.. because of the rough idle. I did all the basic stuff trying to fix it.. only to learn the timing had jumped a few degrees..

[97scoob]

Try swapping injector #1 with another one. If it still misfires at cylinder 1, something else is wrong. But if it moves to the cylinder where you put the injector, I would say that the injector is bad.
yeah, i think i will try this tomorrow.

I had this same issue with my car randomly.. it would misfire in cylinders 1 & 3.. loss of power under 3k rpms.. very very sluggish.. and you could see my shift lever moving around a ton.. because of the rough idle. I did all the basic stuff trying to fix it.. only to learn the timing had jumped a few degrees..
yeah, i remembered reading your posts a while back and then i found them the other day and i was like holy shit, this is me... so i checked timing and redid it, but still the same thing. i am positive it was right too. i counted the teeth in between timing marks and everything. very dissapointing...
edit: when this happened to your car, did it feel like it was missing at idle all of the time, or was it randomly, like it would idle fine for like 30 secs and then idle rough and then fine etc... etc...

[d1giPhux]

Its weird.. because i thought it would idle fine SOMETIMES.. like.. i thought that after driving it for 30 mins or so.. it seemed to have less of a rough idle. However.. after i shut it off and let it sit for a bit.. id turn it back on and watch my shift knob going crazy inside the car because of a really rough idle. Your timing may be on.. but is anything else there.. such as pulleys and such.. are they all working properly?

[97scoob]

wow, yeah that is basically exactly the same thing as mine... i think all my pulleys are fine. i know they are all on straight and the blank pulleys seem to spin freely enough...
i am going to try what 97legacygt suggested and swap injectors and see if it makes a difference. hopefully it will be the injector and i can end my seemingly endless search for the problem. plus i have a spare injector so that would work out good :smile:

[97scoob]

so i swapped out injectors from cylinders 1 and 3, and it oddly enough, now the CEL will not come back on no matter what. it still idles wierdly, but it doesnt feel like it is misfiring anymore, just a shitty idle? i dont get it... :smt017 so now i just have to wait for the CEL to show back up, but it has already been like 3 days... maybe the bulb burnt out :lol:

[decke48]

odd. maybe one of the o-rings had a vaccum leak and the swap fixed it?

[97scoob]

i dont know. i guess i will just have to wait a few days and see if it is going to pop up.

[97scoob]

so the other day, my check engine light finally came back on. cylinder misfire #1 again... ugh...
then the other day, i was driving and my car smelled wicked bad like gas, but i was on my way to work so i just drove there, and then when i got out of work, i started my car and popped the hood, i looked and my cylinder #3 injector (formerly cylinder 1 injector) was spraying gas all over my block. i swapped in an injector and saw that the old one had a shitty o ring that was allowing gas to get by it. after swapping it out, it runs the same as it did before, so back to square 1. i guess the misfire in cylinder #1 could be leaky seals on the injector, and those are cheap so i will probably get them and see if that helps any.
also, now the CEL comes back on within a half an hour of driving it after i clear the code. havent had time to check it yet, but i am willing to bet it is cylinder #1 misfire detected... again.

[97scoob]

so i think this might have something to do with the egr valve, and with inspection coming up at the end of this month i need some help. can someone please explain to me in detail how to clean the egr valve? and i know that there are some lines going to it and stuff... should i clean any of those while i am at it? thanks for any help.

edit: also, i was just readin garound, and a couple people were saying that the front 02 sensor had to be an oem replacement from the dealer... is this true?

[97scoob]

:smt006 someone... anyone?

[decke48]

get some seafoam deepcreep spray it down the egr tube to the head. into the egr part of the intake. and spray the inlet and outlet of the egr let it all soak in for 5 minutes repeat it again. if you have a mighty vac put vaccum to the egr and make sure the valve moves freely. otherwise move the valve with a screwdriver cafefully

[97scoob]

also, i was just readin garound, and a couple people were saying that the front 02 sensor had to be an oem replacement from the dealer... is this true?

[decke48]

a good brand o2 should be fine. oem is a bosch. but ntk(ngk) denso are good replacements too. a direct replacement are truely better then the universal ones

[97scoob]

update:
some new symptoms have developed...
when i first start my car, after it has been sittin for a while (more than 5 hours) when i first start it, it will constantly misfire at idle very bad no matter what speed the engine is revved to, but then after like a minute or so, it will idle really smooth like nothing is wrong, and will keep idling like that until i start driving it.

once i start driving, there is no power under 3 grand still, and after driving it a mile or so, if i let it adle at a stop sogn or something, it will idle horrible, shaking and such but not misfiring for like the first 30 seconds, and then it will misfire once, the idle will drop down from 750ish to like 600ish, and then it will go back up, idle roughly for around 30 seconds, misfire once etc... etc...

also, when driving, under 3k it will drive fine if i am barely on the gas like maintaining speed or slowly accelerating on a flat, but if there is a hill, or like if i shift normally trying to get up to speed (0-40 shifting between 2800 and 3500) it will bog down if i try to speed up too quickly i have notived on my vaccum guage that the feeling of bogging down under 3k only happens when i am below 10 pounds of vaccum (closer to 0)

also, i have notived that if i reset the ecu,it will still run bad at idle, but it will have almost normal amount of power with little to no bogging until i do a few driving cycles and the ecu gets the values from the sensors and then it gets worse and worse.

if anyone has any idea what it might be please let me know. i have to get my car inspected this month and i cant pass right now because my c.e.l. keeps coming back for cyl. #1 misfire detected and i really dont want to go to a mechanic because i dont have any money, even though that might be what i have to do to end this wild goose chase...

[Huffer]

Run a compression test on all four cylinders. I'm betting something's toasted inside that the ECU is trying to learn around, but can't.

[Reason]

Have you messed with the TPS at all?

[chuckthefuk]

Its possible that your timing is off. Check your belt/crank pulley position.

Just a thought.

-Chuck

[97scoob]

Run a compression test on all four cylinders. I'm betting something's toasted inside that the ECU is trying to learn around, but can't.

i knew i forgot something. i already ran a compression test, came up a little above 210 on cylinders 1 and 3 and a little bit below 230 on cylinders 2 and 4.
couldn't it also be the ecu itself? what ecu will work with mine? just a same year outback 5mt?


Have you messed with the TPS at all?
no i havent touched it. what should i do to check it out?


Its possible that your timing is off. Check your belt/crank pulley position.

Just a thought.

-Chuck

i already pulled everything off and redid timing, making sure that it was right. i even counted the teeth on the belt and made sure they lined up with the specs in my manual. also, if it was a timing issue, it should missfire on more then one cylinder i am pretty sure?

[decke48]

210psi is seem a little high. IIRC you have to do HG. did you have the heads milled or valve work? standard compression is around 176psi @ 300 rpm.
could be an injector stick or staying open/close longer than it should be

[Reason]

Theres two screws that you loosen up and just adjust the position of the sensor. I'm going to be doing this tomorrow since my idle seems off too. I'm sure it needs the timing done too :roll:

[97scoob]

210psi is seem a little high. IIRC you have to do HG. did you have the heads milled or valve work? standard compression is around 176psi @ 300 rpm.
could be an injector stick or staying open/close longer than it should be

i already did the hgs on both sides and the only thing i had done to the heads was on the cylinder 1 and 3 head, i had to take to a machine shop to get the exhaust manifold studs drilled out of it.
also, i have already swapped around injectors and it always comes back cylinder #1 misfire no matter which injector i swap in...

Theres two screws that you loosen up and just adjust the position of the sensor. I'm going to be doing this tomorrow since my idle seems off too. I'm sure it needs the timing done too :roll:
so basically just move it around until it seems to idle good?

[decke48]

you need to adjust it till the signal wire reads .5v when the throttle is closed

[97scoob]

oh. the whole high compression thing... is it something that i should worry about and fix soon? could it be causing this whole mishap?

[decke48]

i mean its just odd. like static compression has changed to make high psi numbers. something you might want to try is a tank of a higher octane rated fuel and see

[97scoob]

yeah i agree. it is wierd that my compression would just be higher than normal when i didnt do anything that could make it higher i dont think... well not purposely...
i was thinking about running a higher octane... what should i run? premium or super?

[decke48]

you can try 89, then if not 91/93. what size HG did you use? (std, over, under: size)

[97scoob]

i used the updated multilayer std size gasket. i got them from the dealership down the street from me.

[97scoob]

should i reset the ecu too after i fill up with the higher octane?

[decke48]

hmm odd. yeah i would reset it

[97scoob]

so now i am confused... i was driving around tonight, and randomly my check engine light just decides to turn off, and it stops misfiring... :smt017
it still idles crappy and drives the same but the light went away and it stopped misfiring
i know that the code will still be stored so i am going to erase it and if it doesnt show up again then i will go get a sticker before it shows back up.

[97scoob]

well, it has been a while, but i have an update/story/needing advice...

over april vacation i went away and before i left, i dropped my car off at my aunts boyfriends mechanic shop. he offered to look at it for free. so i drop it off, and when i get back they have bad news and worse news for me. first off, some stupid bitch hit my car while it was parked at the shop which pisses me off but i got her info and i am getting the damage quoted on wednesday. secondly, they looked at my car and did a compression test, and it came back 137, 135 on 2 and 4 and i forget exactly but like 75 on #1 and 60 on #3. so they kept looking at it, and put a camera inside my cylinder wall to look at those cylinders. cylinders have gash marks on them which means that a valve was hitting the pistons.

the damage from the lady hitting me is really only my front bumper skin, but it seems to have made things not line up properly in the front, but is merely cosmetic. no metal was touched... i will probably end up getting the damage quoted for a new bumper skin and bumper beam and body work and just go to a junkyard and get the skin and pocket the rest.

my question is should i just buy some used ej25d heads and put them on? i think that would be cheaper and less downtime than gettin a valve job?

or just sell this neverending problem and move on...

thanks in advance

[decke48]

valve hitting the pistons? well you can find used heads for around $150-250. valve job will probally cost you the same or more

[97scoob]

yeah, sorry thats what i meant. looks like i should start looking for some 2.5 heads...