I heard you like brakes...

[rougeben83]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/02/P1070439-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/02/HPIM1170-1.jpg

The rotor is to the very left :grin:

[d1giPhux]

that must definitely have some good stopping power! DAMN. what size rotor is that? what you using to clear it?

[rougeben83]

that must definitely have some good stopping power! DAMN. what size rotor is that? what you using to clear it?

12.3" LGT rotors with some Nissan calipers. Got some 16" wheels that will fit (barely)...hopefully it will continue to do so once its on the car

[T_F_E]

very nice

[slowbk5wagon]

what bracket are you using or is it custom, i've seen a similar thread on NASIOC that used a bracket from japan and was put on a 2.5RS, i've been looking for alternative options (less expensive) for brakes besides 4pot's and brembo's.
Has any body how seen how cheap wilwood calipers are on summit racing ebay pagehttp://search.stores.ebay.com/Summit-Racing-Equipment_wilwood_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZSummitQ20RacingQ20EquipmentQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsaselZ178360995QQsofpZ0

[decke48]

what bracket are you using or is it custom, i've seen a similar thread on NASIOC that used a bracket from japan and was put on a 2.5RS, i've been looking for alternative options (less expensive) for brakes besides 4pot's and brembo's.
Has any body how seen how cheap wilwood calipers are on summit racing ebay pagehttp://search.stores.ebay.com/Summit-Racing-Equipment_wilwood_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZSummitQ20RacingQ20EquipmentQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsaselZ178360995QQsofpZ0
wilwoods calipers are universal calipers. you just need the wilwood brackets for you application. from what i heard the wilwood/perrin arent good for DD cars. there made for lighter weight chassis

[rougeben83]

what bracket are you using or is it custom, i've seen a similar thread on NASIOC that used a bracket from japan and was put on a 2.5RS, i've been looking for alternative options (less expensive) for brakes besides 4pot's and brembo's.
Has any body how seen how cheap wilwood calipers are on summit racing ebay pagehttp://search.stores.ebay.com/Summit-Racing-Equipment_wilwood_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZSummitQ20RacingQ20EquipmentQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsaselZ178360995QQsofpZ0

You need brackets machined for those wilwoods. Keep in mind the first set of Wilwood/Perrin brakes used the Dynalite calipers for the front - they were meant to stop a car about 1/2 ton lighter than our cars. These were the 4pot/2pot brake packages. Wilwood made a subsequent brake upgrade for WRX's using 6pot/4pot calipers that is meant to stop a 3000lb car. But also keep in mind that these calipers are RACE calipers, they don't have dustboots and will require a rebuild sooner than a set of "street" calipers. TiC (I think) also sells their own "little bbk" that uses a heftier Wilwood 4 pot caliper with 12" 2-piece rotors...these can actually fit behind stock WRX 16"ers.

Yes I'm using the Global Z brackets. The thing is the nissan calipers are so cheap and readily available, even with the $250 brackets my setup still costs around $150 cheaper than the 4pots. And the best part is I can use all of the pads I have for the 4pots with these calipers since they are basically identical in basic design.

The best "cheap" front brake upgrade in your case would be some 05+ LGT front brakes...they're usually around $300-400 used.

[sybir]

what bracket are you using or is it custom, i've seen a similar thread on NASIOC that used a bracket from japan and was put on a 2.5RS, i've been looking for alternative options (less expensive) for brakes besides 4pot's and brembo's.
Has any body how seen how cheap wilwood calipers are on summit racing ebay pagehttp://search.stores.ebay.com/Summit-Racing-Equipment_wilwood_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZSummitQ20RacingQ20EquipmentQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsaselZ178360995QQsofpZ0
wilwoods calipers are universal calipers. you just need the wilwood brackets for you application. from what i heard the wilwood/perrin arent good for DD cars. there made for lighter weight chassis


Dynalite calipers are utter pieces of crap- I had a first-gen Perrin setup on the wagon back int he day. Weight of the car notwithstanding, I was watching them *bend* outwards on both sides during the bleeding procedure. They also have too much fluid volume, especially for such a small caliper; they require a double-kick the first time you put on the brakes to have enough power to really decelerate the car. Add the horrible flex, and they feel super-soft, and they freak the hell out of the ABS system, because it ends up pulsing the caliper instead of the piston - so you have ABS activating while the wheel stays locked up. Awesome. I don't care if the 6/8pot setups are better, I will never run a Wilwood caliper on any car after that experience. The frequent rebuilds are just another reason not to use them on a street car. I've had the same Stoptech ST-48 calipers on my car for 120k+ with no issues and no rebuilds necessary.

[rougeben83]

finally got time to install these.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070733-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/P1070737-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070731-1.jpg

Fits 16"s...barely :smt030

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070725-1.jpg

unfortunately, I'm getting some disc rubbage on the caliper edge on the passenger side, I was hoping I didn't have to grind some of the caliper like it says in the instructions (which I think are *optional*, my kanji reading skills sucks)

[dodik]

get like a 3mm spacer

[Huffer]

I doubt a spacer is going to help, the issue is the size of the caliper from hub-bore to outside edge (radially), not from the face of the wheel.

Ben. :shock: :grin:

[rougeben83]

yeah there's some casting overhang along the edge of the caliper where the rotor fits under. Instructions says I have to grind about 1mm off and about 15mm into the lip area. I guess it's there to compensate for thermal expansion of the rotor because they dry fitted fine. About halfway through bedding the pads I heard a "WHIR WHIR WHIR" when I was off the brakes so that told me it was needed.

[dodik]

so the rotor is rubbing the caliper not the wheel??

[rougeben83]

so the rotor is rubbing the caliper not the wheel??

yup, exactly. I'll get pics to better illustrate.

[dodik]

can you get a smaller diameter rotor? or have someone shave yours i dont know if thats possible but hey.

[rougeben83]

can you get a smaller diameter rotor? or have someone shave yours i dont know if thats possible but hey.

nah, it's not much, its just some rubbing when the rotors get hot. I don't get anything when the brakes are still cold or when the brakes get hot enough for the calipers to expand some as well. The instructions for the brackets says to grind 1mm off the lip of the caliper along the channel the rotor runs, basically to adjust the concavity of the caliper to accept the larger rotor. I'll get the dremel out and do the calipers later tonight...

[KAG]

Looks good Ben. Are you gonna paint them or just leave them silver?

[rougeben83]

Looks good Ben. Are you gonna paint them or just leave them silver?


I already painted them...wanted to look stock(ish) :wink:

They were like this before I did some grinding and rebuilt the calipers with new seals.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1060770-1.jpg

[dodik]

so how is it stopping with those??

[rougeben83]

so how is it stopping with those??

The pedal feel is like what I had before with the FHI 4 pots (makes sense, since they're essentially the same design, only the nissan caliper is an upsized version of the FHI caliper), modulation is good, bite and stopping power is much better since I paired these up with Porterfield R4 pads - essentially a "race" pad for lighter cars (such as miatas and vintage cars), all the while still maintaining a pretty decent temp range.

I bedded the R4 pads in 60F temp and while driving to the empty road to do the actual bedding, I still had pretty good stopping power on partial application when the pads were cold and unbedded, very similar to the Hawk HPS' I had before. Once heated these just grab like a hooker on a dollar bill :twisted: During one of the bed-in runs, I heard the F1 tires squeal (the first time I've ever heard a peep from these tires), the brakes basically overpowered the available grip of the front tires.

Being a more aggressive pad however these tend to squeal when theyre up to temp and you do a partial application of the pedal, and they dust a lot more than the HPS or any "street" pad - I'd say they're probably on par to the HP+ in terms of streetability. In terms of dust, they're on the same level as the Axxis Ultimates I had before. The biggest question mark left is whether if these still have decent stopping power when subjected to near 0F temps when winter comes around .

Ground the calipers last night, only the passenger side was really rubbing, the driver's side I only noticed one or two spots where the paint came off.

Black paint was completely gone on the edge of the pass. side rotor:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070746-1.jpg

Ground down the channel for the rotor on the caliper:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070745-1.jpg

Once installed:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/P1070749-1.jpg

[Huffer]

So if these are essentially FHI 4 pots, what's the reason for changing? I see you changed pads, but you could have done that without changing calipers? :smt017

[rougeben83]

So if these are essentially FHI 4 pots, what's the reason for changing? I see you changed pads, but you could have done that without changing calipers? :smt017

30mm width rotor vs 24mm width rotor, 12.3" dia 05 LGT rotor vs. 11.5" dia wrx rotor :) Plus the nissan calipers, even after rebuilding them, ended up costing me $110 for the pair, vs. $500 for the FHI 4 pots.

That and I can still run 16" wheels despite the size of the big brake package was the kicker for me.

[Airgne]

ben you suprise me everytime we talk. good job. so would the nissan rear 2pots work? also what year USDM wrx has the FHI calipers?

[rougeben83]

ben you suprise me everytime we talk. good job. so would the nissan rear 2pots work? also what year USDM wrx has the FHI calipers?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/10/P1060823-1.jpg

The nissan 2 pots are just like the FHI 2 pots except the tabs are 5mm taller. If you don't mind the pads overhanging the WRX/LGT vented rotors by 5mm that's a viable option, using the same 2 pot adapter brackets (kartboy) or 06-07 wrx back plates to make either 2 pot caliper fit your rear axle.

The rotor that will fit flush with the nissan 2 pots are the late 90's Celica GT4 rear rotors...which is basically not available in the US.

06-07 WRX's got the 4pot/2pot FHI calipers.

[Airgne]

5mm is nothing, and im sure there is a way to make the bracket to fit correctly. thanx ben. cheaper than finding the damn 2 pots.

[rougeben83]

5mm is nothing, and im sure there is a way to make the bracket to fit correctly. thanx ben. cheaper than finding the damn 2 pots.

yeah, I got both front and rear nissan calipers for around $120 shipped. Oh, there's a little brass insert inside where the banjo bolt would bolt up to, because on the nissans the caliper gets fluid from a hardline, but on our cars is a rubber hose. You can just use a small flat head or a drywall screw to grab a hold of the insert and pull it out before you put your banjo bolt in.

[rougeben83]

Just an update, it dipped into the 50's a few nights ago. The R4 pads...didn't get any worse in colder temps :razz: Now that I put a couple of hundred miles in them I notice less noise, and even better modulation than any pad I've used before. There's actually some bite right at the top of the pedal stroke now and it's very linear. Still dusts like a mofo though :smt015

EDIT: I think I got the noise thing sorted, resprayec both the pad backing and both shims with antisqueal. Now I only get a slight squeal on partial braking, like when gradually slowing down to a redlight. I can only hear it with the windows down :lol: That's good enough for me.

[rougeben83]

another update... r4 pads HAET rain. Something with the water and the pad material leads to a lot more noise, now including a wonderful grinding/whirring combination that goes away after you do a couple of emergency stops and get the brakes hot again :lol:

I'm guess this is why pads like the Hawk HPS's I had, came with the edges of the pad beveled, to allow better dissipation of water on the rotor surface. The r4 pads are straight cut, maximizing pad-rotor contact surface but leads to more noise.

[rougeben83]

well just to update on the pads, I found their biggest drawback: they don't last very long. I only got about 15k on the pads, the outside ones were near the backing plate! They performed as expected in sub-freezing temps this past winter as well.

Would I get them again? Maybe. For the $45 I got them for, yes. Retail price ($120)? Probably not. Got some EBC Yellows on there now (supposedly EBC's most "grippiest" formulation according to the box), I'll make another thread for those somewhere in the future I suppose.

[ouch1011]

So the rear brackets are available from Kartboy to adapt the 2-pot fhi calipers to the WRX/Legacy, and those work with the Nissan calipers too?

What about the front ones? Where are those brackets available from?

[rougeben83]

Yes, the KB brackets will work with either caliper, since you have a BD, you can also use 06-07 wrx backing plates; they cost about $50/pair but you do have to take the hub off to get at your old backing plate.

A company named global Z makes them, JDM tyte expensive ($250 for the brackets alone). Had to order them from the guy that first brought up this upgrade and he's in Japan, I replied to your post on My Ride thread with the link. The cost is offset by the caliper's relative cheapness though, even with brackets, I saved $100 over the FHI 4 pots.

[ouch1011]

I saw the link to nasioc but I must have missed the other one. I don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks for brackets to use calipers I already have compared to spending potentially a couple thousand for sti brakes.