Possible brake setups under my BE stock 16'' rims?

[CarlitoQC]

I know the information is probably out there but I didn't find it yet. Lots of stuff I still need to browse but I could use some answers to narrow down my search. I'll probably get some new 17'' wheels for summer setup but I'd like to keep my stock Subaru rims for my winter setup. So my question is what kind of rotors/calipers I can fit in there? I'm looking at STI or Brembo 4 calipers or may be some WRX too. What do I have to look for here? I know I can just get better discs and pads but I have big expections on modifying this car so I'd like to know my options before spending money.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/861/dsc00159hr2.jpg

Thanks

[Huffer]

If you want to use your stock wheels for winter, and aren't interested in swapping out brake calipers and rotors, then the best setup size-wise is what you already have.

Only other upgrade is what we recommend to everyone:

good pads that heat up quickly (important in winter) - Hawk HPS is good, and they're made in Ohio so they're US-made.
decent rotors - yes even the cheapo Autozone ones work, though Brembo blanks are good for manufacturing quality
stainless brake lines for improved pedal feel
bled brakes with good fluid - Super Blue is nice, little pricey.

[CarlitoQC]

Brembo/HPS would be plan B. I've run Brembo/Metalmaster on my BD so I know what to expect. The metalmaster pads were pretty noisy tho. But IF I decide to upgrade to performance calipers and new rotors type, anyone know what would fit under the 16'' oem wheels? I'm sure what I currently got would be all right for a wrx 225hp swap but if I ever decide to swap something stronger in there, better braking solution would most likely be a wise choice, isn't?

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I don't have first hand experience in this area, but if I recall correctly from browsing around, bigger rotors, etc in the front (ie: WRX OEM) does provide a slight performance boost, but the unsprung weight added to the front end is detrimental to steering. Therefore, it's more of a 1 for 1 upgrade, and may even be more detrimental than leaving it stock.

The recommendation I have seen the most often is to upgrade your rear breaks with those from a Outback H6. These apparently provide extra braking without affecting handling, etc. in a negative way.

Again, this is just what I've gathered from reading about other people's plans and ideas, so double check the info, but it might help you decide on the direction you want to head in.

[Huffer]

IF I decide to upgrade to performance calipers and new rotors type, anyone know what would fit under the 16'' oem wheels? I'm sure what I currently got would be all right for a wrx 225hp swap but if I ever decide to swap something stronger in there, better braking solution would most likely be a wise choice, isn't?

YOU CANT. Your wheels won't fit anything bigger that makes sense cost wise.

And the 02-03 WRX has the same brakes.

[rougeben83]

I don't have first hand experience in this area, but if I recall correctly from browsing around, bigger rotors, etc in the front (ie: WRX OEM) does provide a slight performance boost, but the unsprung weight added to the front end is detrimental to steering. Therefore, it's more of a 1 for 1 upgrade, and may even be more detrimental than leaving it stock.

The recommendation I have seen the most often is to upgrade your rear breaks with those from a Outback H6. These apparently provide extra braking without affecting handling, etc. in a negative way.

Again, this is just what I've gathered from reading about other people's plans and ideas, so double check the info, but it might help you decide on the direction you want to head in.

Except 1) he already has "h6" brakes in the rear 2) he already has WRX sized front brakes, and 3) I have no clue how this "lol big brakes give crappy steering!" started but suffice to say even a 10.7 to 11.5 rotor increase I saw no difference in how the car handled. Did you?

[KAG]

You already have 11.4in WRX-sized (even 06/07 4-pot sized) front rotors and 11.3in "H6" sized rears. That's actually better than a stock 02-05 WRX, so your brakes should be plenty efficient as they are.

And, as Huffer told you, you wont be able to fit anything bigger without the correct wheels to fit them.

[KAG]

Darn you Ben! :lol:

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I don't have first hand experience in this area, but if I recall correctly from browsing around, bigger rotors, etc in the front (ie: WRX OEM) does provide a slight performance boost, but the unsprung weight added to the front end is detrimental to steering. Therefore, it's more of a 1 for 1 upgrade, and may even be more detrimental than leaving it stock.

The recommendation I have seen the most often is to upgrade your rear breaks with those from a Outback H6. These apparently provide extra braking without affecting handling, etc. in a negative way.

Again, this is just what I've gathered from reading about other people's plans and ideas, so double check the info, but it might help you decide on the direction you want to head in.

Except 1) he already has "h6" brakes in the rear 2) he already has WRX sized front brakes, and 3) I have no clue how this "lol big brakes give crappy steering!" started but suffice to say even a 10.7 to 11.5 rotor increase I saw no difference in how the car handled. Did you?


Well then, I am not helpful at all, lol.

[CarlitoQC]

Well then, I am not helpful at all, lol.

Well I wouldn't say that because your misinformation helped getting out my specific rotors specs!

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Rofl. Glad I could be of service then? =p

[rougeben83]

Well then, I am not helpful at all, lol.

I didn't mean to single you out, I just don't know where the whole "upgrading your brakes will put a lot of (unnecessary) unsprung weight on the car!" comments started on SL-i. I just haven't seen it before, even on the anal-retentive NASIOC tech forums.

But the 11.5" (aka "WRX" size) front brakes are the bare minimum for a car in the BE's weight range...especially if you intend to drive the car semi-aggressively. Pads and fluid will only go so far in terms of managing heat from braking - which is the primary cause of brake fade. You got to increase the heat capacity of the system and putting more metal in there is the cheapest and most logical solution. There are worse things and more common ways to detrimentally affect steering response from increased unsprung weight. Wider/bigger/heavier rims and matching tires being one of them and I don't see people trying to prevent people from stuffing 18" rims on their Legacy's.


Darn you Ben! :lol:

Pwned :smt005 :wink:

[jamal]

Depending on year, his car could have 276mm front rotors. In which case, a wrx bracket and rotor would be cheap and easy.

Anyway, spend the money on better pads.

Hawk DTC-30
Ferodo DS2500
Porterfield R4S

are all very high performance street pads that will work just fine when cold. You will not have heat issues or fade unless the car is on a racetrack.

Additionally, want better braking? Get better tires.

[Huffer]

Additionally, want better braking? Get better tires.

Truth.

rouge - some people might be getting confused over the issue DLC had when he upgraded to 05+ LGT brakes and rotors - he reported that the larger units caused him to feel like the car was heavier and less responsive in steering.

The bottom line really is this - when it comes to brakes, bigger, is not always better. It depends entirely on your application.

[CarlitoQC]

Additionally, want better braking? Get better tires.

Well I have awesome tires to finish the winter and fair tires for summer. I'm already looking for new 17'' wheels/tires for next season. The new STI's stock BBS are back to 5x100 right? 08 or 09+?

[rougeben83]

Additionally, want better braking? Get better tires.

Truth.

rouge - some people might be getting confused over the issue DLC had when he upgraded to 05+ LGT brakes and rotors - he reported that the larger units caused him to feel like the car was heavier and less responsive in steering.

The bottom line really is this - when it comes to brakes, bigger, is not always better. It depends entirely on your application.

But you have to keep in mind that those LGT brakes are just plain HEAVY. Each caliper alone weighs 17lbs (according to my bathroom scale). The stock WRX-size brakes weigh roughly 25lbs (one rotor/one loaded caliper+bracket); the LGT brakes weigh in at 40lbs (one rotor/one loaded caliper+bracket). You're putting roughly 30 extra pounds of unsprung weight on the front of your car with that upgrade with the added effect of the heavy caliper being placed more towards the edge of the wheels with the 12.3" rotor.

But those brakes are a cheap and valuable upgrade if you intend to do some serious track days on your BE.

I'm saying that going from such a mild brake upgrade from the 10.7" rotor to 11.4-.5 (depending on the year of subaru this .1" diff is there, but either one will use the same caliper and bracket) rotor w/ the same caliper, the added weight is very unnoticable.

Also, people just throw around "better" brakes around here and don't actually explain what they mean or want. Is it better bite? Better modulation? Better heat retention? I'm assuming they just want the no. 1 and some of no.2 in which case more aggressive pads is the answer.




Well I have awesome tires to finish the winter and fair tires for summer. I'm already looking for new 17'' wheels/tires for next season. The new STI's stock BBS are back to 5x100 right? 08 or 09+?

no they are not. Only the 04 STI will work.

[CarlitoQC]

my BE is 03 GT. I got told the new STIs got the pattern back to 5x100, oups.

[GTBGUY]

The absolute largest BBK you can fit under the factory 16x6.5" wheels are the 310mm iON Performance/AP Racing BBK. They're also considerably lighter then the factory 2pot 11.4" set-up or the FHI 4pot set-up. They aren't cheap though! I had their set-up on my '99 LGT along with their matching 310mm 2pot rear BBK set-up. Took lots of track abuse and was able to bring the car to stop at a dime from very high speeds.