BE suspension upgrade

[rclsubaru]

So i recieved my taxes back earlier this week and think im going to put some of the money in the Leggy. Heres my questions:

The H&R sport springs, should i get new struts (i have 9 yr old stockers that dont feel too worn but high miles-120k) or should i just put the springs on my existing setup?

And i am quite interested in a swaybar, and i think i may get the one from rallitek. BUT spring/summer is not too far ahead and will the swaybar mean no more off road driving?

Also id like to know what any of you BE guys are running for your suspension and how you like it, not looking to go coilovers just yet, but would appreciate some decent spring/strut suggestions.

btw i have a 2000 GT Limited, thanks!

[KAG]

First off, welcome!

H&R sport springs paired with KYB GR-2 struts is the most popular spring and strut combo among 3rd generation Legacy owners. Search the Member's Ride 1 section for pictures/reviews and I believe there's a DIY for installing this setup in the DIY forum. This setup would run you +/- $500 and you'd need Impreza spring perches for the springs, which aren't all that expensive.

Your other options for struts are pretty limited as KYB doesn't make the AGX series for our cars. Bilstein has the Heavy Duty struts but brand new they cost $700 and I'm not sure exactly what your budget is. You can try to find some JDM Bilstein's from overseas, but you'd have to either have someone import them for you or find an importer who already has them and is willing to sell them. As far as springs go...the only other ones I know of besides the H&R's are Whiteline control springs, Whiteline flatout springs, STi pink springs, and RS-R sport springs which are another oversea item.

Coilovers are pretty much the only next step if you want adjustability. I think there was a thread a while ago that discussed all the different brands of coilovers out there for the BE/BH, a quick search will bring it to you.

I just recently installed my 20mm adjustable Whiteline rear sway bar and it made an enormous difference in cornering ability. Understeer is virtually gone as well as body roll. A bigger rear sway bar doesn't have to mean no off-road driving, it's just not ideal. If it concerns you when you want to go out and have a little fun, go ahead and remove it. Just as an FYI, Rougeben83 has shown us lots of pictures (we'll call it proof :smt002 ) of him doing some serious rallying in his swapped BE. IIRC, he has 22mm sway bars front and rear.

Have fun and let us know what you decide.

[rclsubaru]

Awesome, thank you for the reply! I have seen the GR-2 and H&R set up quite a bit digging through the Rides forum. I think i will go ahead and order a swaybar and wait a little bit longer for the suspension until i can buy both the springs and struts at the same time. But i am pretty set on that combination.

Anyways, you said your bar was a 20mm, the rallitek one is 22mm. Does this 2mm really make a difference?? (is one better or just a different design)

Thanks again for the help!

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

[sansMYSTi]

If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

I e-mailed them to see what they could give me for a price, I dont believe I have heard of these springs but if you know of a review or have them yourself and care to comment on them, always welcome. :wink:


If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

Okay cool I have been on his website before trying to snag some JDM taillights, but was unsuccessful :cry: anyways Im going to shoot him an e-mail and see whats up with those Bilstiens, thanks for the heads up! The swaybar I am looking at seems big enough, so I think I will go with that.

Also, are motor, tranny, and pitch mounts worth it? They sound interesting and I feel like I would like the NHV more than hate it. Anyways thanks guys.

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: I've personally had first hand experience with the iON's as well as H&R, Prodrive, Whiteline, Eibach and STi. I would say hands down if you're looking for the best performance & overall usability without sacrificing comfort the iON's are the way to go. Of the 9 current Subarus we've got in the family right now 8 of the 9 are running iON Springs; only my Outback STi is on Cusco Coilovers for track; if I didn't need the dampening & rebound adjustments for track I would be using iON Springs with Koni's or Bilsteins on my ride. I've had 7 previous Subarus, and all of them I had ended up switching to iON springs in the end. They aren't cheap, but they're worth their weight in gold. :smt023

Here's are a few reviews on NASIOC ->
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750470

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772720


As for the Group N engine + pitch + tranny, they're well worth it; however if you have an auto tranny there's no tranny mount available. The pitch mount is optional, as that transfers the most NVH into the cabin.

[KAG]

DOH! I forgot about the iON performance springs. I've heard nothing but good things about these springs...and GTBGUY's post makes me want to get a set myself for the BE :lol:

I sent Jack @ iON an e-mail not too long ago. He called me back, asked me a few questions and told me that directly from him it would be $418 shipped to my door. He then informed me I could get a much better price if I were to join a group buy on legacygt.com though.

I honestly don't think that's a bad price for springs that aren't high in demand, are made SPECIFICALLY for the vehicle you're purchasing them for (all the way down to which transmission you have) and I have confidence that the customer service would be excellent. You can also use the stock spring perches for these which would save a few bucks and a boring trip to the dealer :smile:

...and yeah, regarding the mounts - I replaced my transmission and pitch stop not too long ago. Pitch stop to me didn't do much of anything and added noise, so I got rid of it. The tranny mount, however, made a great improvement in shifting and felt like it held the torque a lot better in higher rpms.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: I've personally had first hand experience with the iON's as well as H&R, Prodrive, Whiteline, Eibach and STi. I would say hands down if you're looking for the best performance & overall usability without sacrificing comfort the iON's are the way to go. Of the 9 current Subarus we've got in the family right now 8 of the 9 are running iON Springs; only my Outback STi is on Cusco Coilovers for track; if I didn't need the dampening & rebound adjustments for track I would be using iON Springs with Koni's or Bilsteins on my ride. I've had 7 previous Subarus, and all of them I had ended up switching to iON springs in the end. They aren't cheap, but they're worth their weight in gold. :smt023

E-mail I recieved a half-hour after I sent it :smile:

Hi Ross, thanks for your interest & inquiry. We design our springs for
North American roads & conditions, and are specifically made to each
engine/chassis/tranny combination. Since you have a BE (Sedan), which
tranny do you have? The 4EAT or the 5MT? Do you have the factory EJ253
SOHC engine?.

As for pricing, since you're part of SLi.net we can provide you the member
discount. Our Springs MSRP for $599US + shipping, as a forum member
you're entitled to the member discounted price of $399US + shipping.

Our springs lower the car by 1.18" & 1" respectively (F/R - 30mm/25mm).
Our springs are also progressive and make the car handle much more
neutral. We do have a rear HD option to provide more power off oversteer,
however we only recommend that combintion for those who track their car
alot.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best Regards,

Jack


Ouu a discount? :razz: I am pretty much sold on these springs and yes I like the fact that the stock perches are used, so much more convenient and practical! If those Bilstiens from 5 Mile are still available then I think I will snag those and wait a bit until the Subie fund recovers, then finish it off with the iONs :smile: Does anyone have any updated pics of the stance of the car with these springs on? None of the Naisoc pics are showing up on my comp. (maybe thats my problem though :smt017 )


...and yeah, regarding the mounts - I replaced my transmission and pitch stop not too long ago. Pitch stop to me didn't do much of anything and added noise, so I got rid of it. The tranny mount, however, made a great improvement in shifting and felt like it held the torque a lot better in higher rpms.

The tranny mount sounds like its the best value, my short shifter decreased the shift somewhat but I would love for it to have a more crisper, solid feel. And the pitch mount, if theres just an increase in NVH then whats its purpose?

On the distant other hand, with these at ~$400 and the Bilstiens at say ~$500(?) or so, should i bite the bullet and buy some coilovers? Or do these bad boys really put the $1000+ coilovers to shame? I was digging around and the BC Racing Coilovers seem pretty nice. Whats your guys' opinions??

[GTBGUY]

rclsubaru: I'm sure the guys at iON have pictures available. You should drop them another email about that.

As for coil-overs, a good set of springs & struts will easily out perform coil-overs. Like I had mentioned, if it weren't for the fact I required the dampening & rebound adjustments of the Cusco Comp Zero-2 coilovers, I would be rocking the iON springs with Koni's or Bilstien's. Even on the softest setting the Cuscos are "bone jarring" on rough surfaces. Coil-overs also require more attention/maintanence.

If you don't need adjustability, you're wasting your money with the coilovers.

[rclsubaru]

rclsubaru: I'm sure the guys at iON have pictures available. You should drop them another email about that.

As for coil-overs, a good set of springs & struts will easily out perform coil-overs. Like I had mentioned, if it weren't for the fact I required the dampening & rebound adjustments of the Cusco Comp Zero-2 coilovers, I would be rocking the iON springs with Koni's or Bilstien's. Even on the softest setting the Cuscos are "bone jarring" on rough surfaces. Coil-overs also require more attention/maintanence.

If you don't need adjustability, you're wasting your money with the coilovers.

Okay cool, looks like im sticking to the springs then. I sent another e-mail, so shouldnt be too long till i get one back. :wink:

Thanks again for all the help, will keep you guys updated on what goes down.

[sansMYSTi]

rclsubaru: you may want to also check out the iON Performance Sport Spec springs for your car. It will leave you with more ground clearance then the H&R's. They're also designed to the chassis/tranny/engine combination you have. Their email address is info@ionperformance.com

I e-mailed them to see what they could give me for a price, I dont believe I have heard of these springs but if you know of a review or have them yourself and care to comment on them, always welcome. :wink:


If you are putting on new springs, you might as well get some new struts also, to save yourself some time/money as you would most likely need to replace the struts relatively soon anyway.

I like my H&R sport springs - with the 1"1/4 drop in the front and 1"1/3 in the rear they give the car just the right stance.

I am very much liking the JDM Bilstein struts in combo with the H&R's as they are firm but not harsh - I would recommend them. Kevin at 5 Mile Imports has a set of these for the BE, though they are listed as "sales pending" (not sure if they are sold yet or not. Link below...

http://forum.subaruclub.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=315

I would also suggest a larger rear bar - makes a huge difference in the wagon, but I am sure it makes quite a difference in the sedan also. My whiteline adjustable works quite well, even though I have never adjusted from loosest setting. You could also go with a rear swaybar endlink upgrade, which I did, but unless they are well lubed and kept well lubed, they will squeek like a bitch and wear out quickly (that is why I went back to stock).

Good luck and I hope you find something that works well for you.

Okay cool I have been on his website before trying to snag some JDM taillights, but was unsuccessful :cry: anyways Im going to shoot him an e-mail and see whats up with those Bilstiens, thanks for the heads up! The swaybar I am looking at seems big enough, so I think I will go with that.

Also, are motor, tranny, and pitch mounts worth it? They sound interesting and I feel like I would like the NHV more than hate it. Anyways thanks guys.

I have an aftermarket tranny mount, and I find it did make the shift and power application much more crisp - the car felt more responsive. I may also give the motor mounts and pitch stop a try also. Keep in mind that changing these often puts more vibration/noise into the car - my tranny mount wasn't too bad, but I have heard the motor mounts are worse.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I have an aftermarket tranny mount, and I find it did make the shift and power application much more crisp - the car felt more responsive. I may also give the motor mounts and pitch stop a try also. Keep in mind that changing these often puts more vibration/noise into the car - my tranny mount wasn't too bad, but I have heard the motor mounts are worse.

I did all of the above. The engine noise is definitely more noticeable, but it is in a "Ohh, my engine sounds like it has been bodybuilding" rather than a "I would love to think, but my engine is so loud that all I can hear is 1-3-2-4, 1-3-2-4"

I am in no way disappointed in my purchase and installation of STi Group-N mounts.

[hellaGT]

I just emailed ION about springs for my BD. I had just saved up for a suspension upgrade to replace my 10 yr old 153,000 mile stockers...
Sounds like the KYB GR-2s and these springs are a good combo.

[rougeben83]

what are struts are you using with the ion springs? You do realize if you buy bilsteins (like that 5mile import set) they come with b4 springs, right? They lower about 10-15mm and are progressively stiffer than any of the USDM models. If thats what youre looking for, I would suggest trying those first.

Oh yeah, I've gone through 3 different pitchstops, the aftermarket ones just gave me more noise. Just get a Group N one and spend the $50 difference towards upgraded engine and transmission mounts.

[hellaGT]

Got the email and... so far great customer service!

"Hi Trevor, thanks for your email and inquiry. Yes we do manufacture
springs for the BD chassis. Attached is a picture of a BD w/ KYB GR2's.
Note the picture of the BK wagon is for reference between stock suspension
and our Sport Spec springs on KYB GR2's.

Our springs for the BD chassis lower 30mm/25mm (1.18"/1") Front/Rear
respectively. They're fully progressive and provide a supple ride while
maximizing the handling characteristics of the car. We do also offer a HD
option for the rears which are designed for those who constantly have a
heavy load in the trunk or for those who want more oversteer then our
Sport Specs.

The member discounted price on our springs is $399US + shipping (MSRP is
$599US + shipping). There is no price difference to go with the HD rear
option.

There was another SLi member who contacted us with a BE, as we had
mentioned to them, if there's enough interest we can host a Group Buy for
further discounts.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best Regards,

Jack

"If there's enough interest we can host a Group Buy for further discounts." anyone else? :smt026

Before / After pic
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/ION-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/ION2-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IONbd-1.jpg

[KAG]

I'd be in for a group buy. I was planning on joining the last one that just ended on legacygt.com but my trip to the dealership killed me.

[hellaGT]

I'm not totally ready for the purchase but will be soon so I can wait as long as it takes.
So potentially 3 so far?
1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG

[hellaGT]

Bump

[rclsubaru]

I'm not totally ready for the purchase but will be soon so I can wait as long as it takes.
So potentially 3 so far?
1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG

Definatly down for that, this is a part of what Jack had sent me:

...Alternatively, if you'd like to start a GB on
SLi.net we would be open to that idea. The discounts would be as such:

5 participants = -$25 off member discounted prices (ie: $374US + shipping)
10 participants = -$50 off member discounted prices (ie: $349US + shipping)
15 participants = -$75 off member discounted prices (ie: $324US + shipping)...


How bout that? I would love to be able to get at least the 10 participants, I'm with hellaGT; not in that much of a rush, and am willing to wait. We will see what happens then, ask around for interests!

[TheAngryPidgeon]

I would like to get in on this, however, I have to wait. Luckily, financial aid pays out soon, and I will be working a lot more next quarter, so it shouldn't be too long.

Put me down tentatively, and I'll let you know where I stand once this comes closer to going through.

Thanks,

Phil

[rclsubaru]

I would like to get in on this, however, I have to wait. Luckily, financial aid pays out soon, and I will be working a lot more next quarter, so it shouldn't be too long.

Put me down tentatively, and I'll let you know where I stand once this comes closer to going through.

Thanks,

Phil

Okay cool, we have a probable number 4.

1.rclsubaru
2.Hella GT
3.KAG
4.**TheAngryPidgeon
5._________
-$25 off member discounted prices (ie: $374US + shipping)

Should be able to reach this goal.

[hellaGT]

Phil, you should do what you did to recruit the NorCal meet and lets make it 10.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Phil, you should do what you did to recruit the NorCal meet and lets make it 10.

Will do, depending on how these papers come along over the next week or so. I'll keep you posted.

[rougeben83]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

PM'd him. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Markus]

Kind of jumping back a bit (sorry don't get to come on here as much as I'd like)....a whole bunch of random thoughts....I own an '03 Leggy GT with about 60k miles on stock suspension so I'm considering some upgrades as well.

1) Shocks/springs v. springs only - I got a deal on some used Whiteline springs and was going to just slap them on right away. But it's a pretty involved process (heard about 1.5-2hrs for a first timer or $175 thru a local shop). The thing is, it doesn't take that much longer (or that much more $$) to install shocks as well. So - if you're going to do one, might as well do both...

2) Aftermarket springs with stock shocks - Once again "from what I've heard" most of the aftermarket springs will still ride ok with stock shocks, but they will wear out the stock shocks more quickly. This might not be a big deal if you had 30k miles and just wanted to lower the car for looks. But since the BE's are all 5+ years old by now, probably makes sense to just replace the shocks too.

3) KYB's - I have seen various numbers thrown around for the KYB's, from like 10% stiffer than stock to 20% stiffer. If I didn't care about handling and just wanted an OEM-equivalent shock I would buy these with no reservations - price can't be beat and quality is supposed to be pretty good. But if you're asking about rear sways also and do want to improve handling, you probably should go with something stiffer.

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs.

5) Shocks/springs v. coilovers - I've added it up too, and used springs plus JDM shocks does start getting to the point where I want to just say f-it and order coilovers. I wouldn't say one setup is necessarily better than the other, the coilovers just offer alot more in terms of adjustability - ride height adjustability, ability to customize spring rates, etc. But if you're not going to seriously track or autox the car it also adds another area of complexity. I have enough complexity with my track Miata already!

I hope some of that helps...to the original poster, if you don't go with the fivemile JDM Bilsteins maybe PM me the quoted price...temptations...

- Mark

[hellaGT]

Maybe you guys should contact Reason and he'll get a general gb/interest thread going so other guys can get on this.

Totally forgot about that... thanks

[hellaGT]

These are the spring rates for the BD only, just for reference.

"Hi Trevor, the following are the rates for a 5MT, EJ25 equipped BD Legacy
Sedan:

F/R:

237F/217R #/in @ 1"
286F/274R #/in @ 2"

Please note that spring rates are specific to engine/tranny/chassis type.

Rates for the BG/BK as well as the BE/BH chassis are different as well
based on engine/tranny/chassis

Best Regards,

Jack"

[rclsubaru]

Kind of jumping back a bit (sorry don't get to come on here as much as I'd like)....a whole bunch of random thoughts....I own an '03 Leggy GT with about 60k miles on stock suspension so I'm considering some upgrades as well.

1) Shocks/springs v. springs only - I got a deal on some used Whiteline springs and was going to just slap them on right away. But it's a pretty involved process (heard about 1.5-2hrs for a first timer or $175 thru a local shop). The thing is, it doesn't take that much longer (or that much more $$) to install shocks as well. So - if you're going to do one, might as well do both...

2) Aftermarket springs with stock shocks - Once again "from what I've heard" most of the aftermarket springs will still ride ok with stock shocks, but they will wear out the stock shocks more quickly. This might not be a big deal if you had 30k miles and just wanted to lower the car for looks. But since the BE's are all 5+ years old by now, probably makes sense to just replace the shocks too.

3) KYB's - I have seen various numbers thrown around for the KYB's, from like 10% stiffer than stock to 20% stiffer. If I didn't care about handling and just wanted an OEM-equivalent shock I would buy these with no reservations - price can't be beat and quality is supposed to be pretty good. But if you're asking about rear sways also and do want to improve handling, you probably should go with something stiffer.

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs.

5) Shocks/springs v. coilovers - I've added it up too, and used springs plus JDM shocks does start getting to the point where I want to just say f-it and order coilovers. I wouldn't say one setup is necessarily better than the other, the coilovers just offer alot more in terms of adjustability - ride height adjustability, ability to customize spring rates, etc. But if you're not going to seriously track or autox the car it also adds another area of complexity. I have enough complexity with my track Miata already!

I hope some of that helps...to the original poster, if you don't go with the fivemile JDM Bilsteins maybe PM me the quoted price...temptations...

- Mark

Thanks for that post, and yeah I do want to go a bit more stiffer than having to buy new shocks just to get a 10% increase in stiffness, yet im sure with my ~120k mile old set-up there would be a definate noticible increase.

And the JDM Bilsteins from 5mile were actually sold. I asked for a heads-up though if they receive another set :wink:

Thanks again sir

[GTBGUY]

Answers/replies in RED hope it helps!

Kind of jumping back a bit (sorry don't get to come on here as much as I'd like)....a whole bunch of random thoughts....I own an '03 Leggy GT with about 60k miles on stock suspension so I'm considering some upgrades as well.

1) Shocks/springs v. springs only - I got a deal on some used Whiteline springs and was going to just slap them on right away. But it's a pretty involved process (heard about 1.5-2hrs for a first timer or $175 thru a local shop). The thing is, it doesn't take that much longer (or that much more $$) to install shocks as well. So - if you're going to do one, might as well do both... If you're going to go this route, get the struts/shocks done at the same time, don't skimp out. However I believe the Whitelines may require you to change the strut tops on the front

2) Aftermarket springs with stock shocks - Once again "from what I've heard" most of the aftermarket springs will still ride ok with stock shocks, but they will wear out the stock shocks more quickly. This might not be a big deal if you had 30k miles and just wanted to lower the car for looks. But since the BE's are all 5+ years old by now, probably makes sense to just replace the shocks too. No point in doing this, the springs will accelerate the wear of your stock struts/shocks, you might as well kill 2 birds with one stone

3) KYB's - I have seen various numbers thrown around for the KYB's, from like 10% stiffer than stock to 20% stiffer. If I didn't care about handling and just wanted an OEM-equivalent shock I would buy these with no reservations - price can't be beat and quality is supposed to be pretty good. But if you're asking about rear sways also and do want to improve handling, you probably should go with something stiffer. strut/shock "stiffness" has no bearing on the swaybar's and their thickness. Hence when you upgrade on the rear sway bar you can notice a decrease in understeer, irrespective of your shocks/struts

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs. Not really worth buying used struts/shocks, as you don't really know how much more use you'll get out of them. Luckily the Bilsteins are rebuildable.

5) Shocks/springs v. coilovers - I've added it up too, and used springs plus JDM shocks does start getting to the point where I want to just say f-it and order coilovers. I wouldn't say one setup is necessarily better than the other, the coilovers just offer alot more in terms of adjustability - ride height adjustability, ability to customize spring rates, etc. But if you're not going to seriously track or autox the car it also adds another area of complexity. I have enough complexity with my track Miata already!
Cost wise you're correct, however the point is if you don't need the adjustability there's no point of having the coilovers. More toys = easier to fail. Most if not all coilovers will increase NVH in the vehicle, it will also require more frequent inspection/maintenance to insure perches are clean & lubed as well as all the other bits are in functional order.

I hope some of that helps...to the original poster, if you don't go with the fivemile JDM Bilsteins maybe PM me the quoted price...temptations...

- Mark

[KAG]

4) Bilsteins - Most of the used JDM import sets I've seen have gone for $500-$600 vs buying the Bilstein Heavy Duty's brand new for $700. Not sure if it's worth saving $150-$200 to go used. Someone mentioned though that the JDM sets thru filemileimport include springs, if that's the case you might be able to sell those springs used and get some cash back for purchasing other springs. Not really worth buying used struts/shocks, as you don't really know how much more use you'll get out of them. Luckily the Bilsteins are rebuildable.
Exactly! This why I've decided to stop looking for a set of used JDM Bilsteins and just save up for the HD's. When you buy used suspension, you can never be sure of the kind of abuse it's been through and if you don't know the exact mileage, you could end up spending more for a rebuild than if you bought new in the first place. According to Bilstein's site, a rebuild for a strut is $75 and a rebuild for a shock is $65, and I'm not even sure if that includes shipping or not. Used Bil's for (at the least) $400 plus $280 for a rebuild bring you to $680 when you could've just bought them brand new for around the same price.

My 'dream' suspension setup is iON Sport Spec springs, Bilstein HD's and new top hats front & rear.

$400 for the springs, $700 for the struts, $100 or so for the mounts and I'm at $1200, but I know I'll have the best spring/strut combo that money can buy for this car.

Then of course there's wheels, tires, sways, etc., but that's another story :smt002

[Markus]

OK there was talk of a group buy on the springs...

Can anyone do a group buy on the new Bilstein's? Not sure how much of a discount it would be. But - if I can scrape the jack together I'd be very interested.

- Mark

[KAG]

OK there was talk of a group buy on the springs...

Can anyone do a group buy on the new Bilstein's? Not sure how much of a discount it would be. But - if I can scrape the jack together I'd be very interested.

- Mark
I'm hoping Reason can get them because I've only been able to find a few places that actually sell them for our cars. TireRack has to special order them and shox.com raised their price $100 a few months ago. Not sure how many they have in stock either but I know that's where blackgtbeauty bought his.

Here are the BE/BH part numbers just in case:

Front Left: F4-VE3-A168-M1
Front Right: F4-VE3-A169-M1
Rear: F4-BE5-A170-M1

[rclsubaru]

If you guys are going for the HDs then I guesssss theres no harm in tagging along :wink: I've honestly not heard much about the HDs and didnt even know they were an option for the BEs. They sound great and I'll take your guys words on that.

And btw, Reason started a GB thread for the iONs in the classifieds. Wonderful :smile: thanks for pm'ing him AngryPidgeon.

[rougeben83]

You can order the HD's straight from Bilstein. They're great guys. I had one of my b4 bilsteins rebuilt by them not too long ago...this after a mishap with an impact gun :smt018

Rebuild + machining a new top cost about $120 plus the $30 to ship it back and forth.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/11/P1040753-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/11/P1040857-1.jpg

If you guys really want a strut to drool over, it would be the KYB Buzz Specs (I think they're one step up from AGX's here in the US), 8 way adjustable, shortened strut body by 20-25mm to allow full suspension travel even with lowering, valving more focus for circuits :twisted: .

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1141632 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1141632)

[rclsubaru]

You can order the HD's straight from Bilstein. They're great guys. I had one of my b4 bilsteins rebuilt by them not too long ago...this after a mishap with an impact gun :smt018

Rebuild + machining a new top cost about $120 plus the $30 to ship it back and forth.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/11/P1040753-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2007/11/P1040857-1.jpg

If you guys really want a strut to drool over, it would be the KYB Buzz Specs (I think they're one step up from AGX's here in the US), 8 way adjustable, shortened strut body by 20-25mm to allow full suspension travel even with lowering, valving more focus for circuits :twisted: .

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1141632 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1141632)

Cool thats a pretty decent deal man, looks like their holding up pretty well then otherwise? and hmm impact gun..haha. Anyways too bad those Bilsteins from 5mile were actually sold, I feel like my car is getting lower and lower by the day..I cant wait to leave these crater-scarred roads in a few months. :roll:

[TheAngryPidgeon]

Btw, there is now a link to the ION group buy in my sig for those interested.

[rougeben83]

Cool thats a pretty decent deal man, looks like their holding up pretty well then otherwise? and hmm impact gun..haha. Anyways too bad those Bilsteins from 5mile were actually sold, I feel like my car is getting lower and lower by the day..I cant wait to leave these crater-scarred roads in a few months. :roll:

Yup, they doing fine. With the RSK springs I'd say theyre just the right blend of ride comfort and handling for me. I would say that if you drive on anything smoother than the cratered winter roads of the Midwest, you could get away with something stiffer on a DD though suspension preference/tolerance can vary wildly among drivers.

The one thing I noticed with the bilsteins is they get very stiff when temps drop below freezing, much more noticeably than the stock or probably the gr2 struts. This seems to be a common characteristic even with the bilsteins for WRX's. Above freezing and they ride very plush.

Oh yeah, Bilstein can also revalve the shocks (b4 or HD) for you to better fit your needs. It's the kind of service you get from people who actually know what theyre doing :wink:

[sansMYSTi]

The Bilsteins get stiff with cold, but I find that most do, so I have never noticed the difference. Plus, it doesn't take long for struts to warm up - especially if you live on a bumpy-ass road like I do :wink:

[rclsubaru]

Cool thats a pretty decent deal man, looks like their holding up pretty well then otherwise? and hmm impact gun..haha. Anyways too bad those Bilsteins from 5mile were actually sold, I feel like my car is getting lower and lower by the day..I cant wait to leave these crater-scarred roads in a few months. :roll:

Yup, they doing fine. With the RSK springs I'd say theyre just the right blend of ride comfort and handling for me. I would say that if you drive on anything smoother than the cratered winter roads of the Midwest, you could get away with something stiffer on a DD though suspension preference/tolerance can vary wildly among drivers.

The one thing I noticed with the bilsteins is they get very stiff when temps drop below freezing, much more noticeably than the stock or probably the gr2 struts. This seems to be a common characteristic even with the bilsteins for WRX's. Above freezing and they ride very plush.

Oh yeah, Bilstein can also revalve the shocks (b4 or HD) for you to better fit your needs. It's the kind of service you get from people who actually know what theyre doing :wink:

Okay good to know, I think I'll save up for the HDs. And yeah i wouldnt be too worried about the stiffness, even though it does get pretty cold up here.

And trust me, I know of wayyy too many bumpy-ass roads :-(

[Markus]

Here are the BE/BH part numbers just in case:

Front Left: F4-VE3-A168-M1
Front Right: F4-VE3-A169-M1
Rear: F4-BE5-A170-M1

Quoting the part #'s again just for reference.

Pricing at Shox.com for package of 1 front left, 1 front right, 2 rears: $699

Pricing at Bilstein.com: $366 front left, $366 front right, $160 x 2 rears: $1052

These do seem to be the best option for the BE, but the price does seem a little high to me. Unfortunately modifying BE's is kind of rare so we probably can't get enough people together to get a significant discount.

- Mark

[Huffer]

You guys looked at Koni inserts?

[Markus]

Hey Huffer -

If I go to koni-na.com and type in 2003 Subaru Legacy in their vehicle selector I get zilch. How do the inserts work - you use some sort of generic Koni yellow shock along with a Koni coilover type setup? Or does something from another Subaru model like the Impreza fit?

I have Koni's on my track Miata and love them, wouldn't mind trying them on the Subaru if it would save me some coin....

Thanks for throwing out another option!

- Mark

[KAG]

Pricing at Shox.com for package of 1 front left, 1 front right, 2 rears: $699

Pricing at Bilstein.com: $366 front left, $366 front right, $160 x 2 rears: $1052

These do seem to be the best option for the BE, but the price does seem a little high to me. Unfortunately modifying BE's is kind of rare so we probably can't get enough people together to get a significant discount.

- Mark
shox.com a few months ago actually had them listed for $599. I'm not sure why they increased the price to $699 + shipping because tirerack.com has them for $230 front left, $230 front right, and $101 x 2 rears which equals $662 + shipping. Maybe if three or even just two of us call and tell them that we will all buy if and only if they bring it back down to $599 + shipping. Hell, maybe they'll even cut it down more than that, who knows. Can't hurt to try I guess, can it?

Regarding the Koni's, they don't make them for the BE/BH, but they do make them for the BL/BP. I wouldn't be surprised if the inserts for the front fit, it's the rears that would be a toss-up. If the rears don't, I suppose it wouldn't be the worst idea to have Koni inserts up front and HD's in the rear. If neither the front or the rears don't, I'd say we're SOL :lol:

Anyways...I've found a couple sets of used Bil's (and even a set of those KYB Buzz-Specs rougeben was talking about) on auction sites overseas recently for pretty cheap, I guess it would be something to consider getting them for $200 and having them rebuilt for another $200. It's just getting them over here that's the issue...

[rougeben83]

Pricing at Shox.com for package of 1 front left, 1 front right, 2 rears: $699

Pricing at Bilstein.com: $366 front left, $366 front right, $160 x 2 rears: $1052

These do seem to be the best option for the BE, but the price does seem a little high to me. Unfortunately modifying BE's is kind of rare so we probably can't get enough people together to get a significant discount.

- Mark
shox.com a few months ago actually had them listed for $599. I'm not sure why they increased the price to $699 + shipping because tirerack.com has them for $230 front left, $230 front right, and $101 x 2 rears which equals $662 + shipping. Maybe if three or even just two of us call and tell them that we will all buy if and only if they bring it back down to $599 + shipping. Hell, maybe they'll even cut it down more than that, who knows. Can't hurt to try I guess, can it?

Regarding the Koni's, they don't make them for the BE/BH, but they do make them for the BL/BP. I wouldn't be surprised if the inserts for the front fit, it's the rears that would be a toss-up. If the rears don't, I suppose it wouldn't be the worst idea to have Koni inserts up front and HD's in the rear. If neither the front or the rears don't, I'd say we're SOL :lol:

Anyways...I've found a couple sets of used Bil's (and even a set of those KYB Buzz-Specs rougeben was talking about) on auction sites overseas recently for pretty cheap, I guess it would be something to consider getting them for $200 and having them rebuilt for another $200. It's just getting them over here that's the issue...

The koni inserts only work on Macpherson type struts - the shock type coilover in the rear, they usually just make a matched valved set. I was looking into using Miata konis in the rear, they're approximately the same design, the only thing is making sure the spring and tophat fit.

You have to gut your strut and use it as a sort of sleeve over the insert:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... nsert+pics (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1219607&highlight=koni+insert+pics)

Miata struts:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... iata+strut (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1327336&highlight=miata+strut)

The other thing I was considering with this was to use Ground control coilover sleeves (WRX front, Miata rear) to get a height adjustable, custom spring, and adjustable dampening suspension without the inconsistency issues of coilovers of the same price range.

Also, for the buzz specs, I would check the auction. The last one I went to had them for $200 EACH. That Shox.com price is really good for the Bilsteins IMO, that's about how much used JDM sets sell for.

[Markus]

For Huffer and Rougeben - why were you considering Koni's - ie do you think they are better quality or would give a better ride? It doesn't seem like there is any appreciable cost savings by going that route.

JDM Bilstein's (used) - 5mile Import (est): $550, sell springs for $100 = $450 total cost
JDM Bilstein's (used) - thru overseas action (est): $200 + $100 ship + $200 rebuild = $500 total cost
Koni's (based on Miata prices): $125/ea * 4 = $500 plus cost/time to gut OEM BE housings?
USDM Bilstein's HD (new) - thru shox.com: $699, maybe less if we beg or get a group?

I'm not thrilled at the USDM Bilstein's being $699 new, but it does seem like just buying them off the shelf would be the "path of least resistance"? The more I think about this...the more I'm thinking about just snagging some of those...on one hand I don't really want to throw that kind of coin at this car, but on the other hand the only significantly cheaper option appears to by KYB's...

- Mark

[Huffer]

I only suggested the Koni insert because they're a popular low-cost big bang option for the Macpherson strut crew. I have no clue as to what inserts would fit... I know Pat Olsen did the Koni insert on his BD awhile back but that doesn't help the BE crew.

Honestly, if you were going to plunk some change down on Bilsteins, I would get them brand new... spending $400 on a used set of unknown condition really isn't something I'd like to do myself.
I bet if you contacted a Bilstein rep and said you had 5 confirmed orders for this make and year, they'd be willing to chop $100 off them I bet...
especially in this climate. They have them in stock, they're not moving them.

[rougeben83]

For Huffer and Rougeben - why were you considering Koni's - ie do you think they are better quality or would give a better ride? It doesn't seem like there is any appreciable cost savings by going that route.

JDM Bilstein's (used) - 5mile Import (est): $550, sell springs for $100 = $450 total cost
JDM Bilstein's (used) - thru overseas action (est): $200 + $100 ship + $200 rebuild = $500 total cost
Koni's (based on Miata prices): $125/ea * 4 = $500 plus cost/time to gut OEM BE housings?
USDM Bilstein's HD (new) - thru shox.com: $699, maybe less if we beg or get a group?

I'm not thrilled at the USDM Bilstein's being $699 new, but it does seem like just buying them off the shelf would be the "path of least resistance"? The more I think about this...the more I'm thinking about just snagging some of those...on one hand I don't really want to throw that kind of coin at this car, but on the other hand the only significantly cheaper option appears to by KYB's...

- Mark

The Konis I would consider because they are a proven setup and are adjustable. Overseas auctions can get a little iffy. The only reason I have JDM Bilsteins on mine is because I bought Andivic's personal set that he ran on his car for a couple of hundred miles and that he got from a personal connection in JDM land. Also, I'm almost 100% convinced that the WRX inserts will work on the BE front struts because almost all of the front end suspension bits for the BE/BH can be replaced with Impreza parts of varying years (like the top strut mounts, tophats/camberplates, front swaybar, endlinks, control arms, front cross member, steeringrack, etc etc.) . The only thing I would need to check is the valving of the Konis, but that would be very close as the WRX has roughly the same weight over the front axles as the Legacy.

If you can get the HD bilsteins for that price, I think that's a good deal. But I don't really think most people will even make full use of the bilstein struts to warrant paying double of the GR2's to be honest. The GR2's have proven to be able to handle (though it is not probably optimized for it) the increased spring rates of various lowering springs for thousands of miles. In other words its good enough for the way most performance enthusiasts drive their car, even though it may "just be" a slightly better OEM replacement damper.

I'm not trying to be a pretentious jerk, but the best thing is to seriously consider what you'll be using the car for and go from there.

[Markus]

If you can get the HD bilsteins for that price, I think that's a good deal. But I don't really think most people will even make full use of the bilstein struts to warrant paying double of the GR2's to be honest. The GR2's have proven to be able to handle (though it is not probably optimized for it) the increased spring rates of various lowering springs for thousands of miles. In other words its good enough for the way most performance enthusiasts drive their car, even though it may "just be" a slightly better OEM replacement damper.

Hey you've done alot more with these cars then most people so you could say it's "voice of reason" vs "pretentious jerk"?

As I said before, I love Koni's - but just seems like too much work for me personally. Maybe if this was my only car and I was going to track it more, but since I have the Miata I kinda want this car to just be easy you know?

I just crossed 60k on my BE, paid it off last year, and the goal is to put another 60k+ on it. If I win the lotto before then I'm undecided on if I will get a new Legacy B-Spec or 3.0R, but either way - I'd try to get Huffer to buy my current one.

So - my concern with the above is "...GR2's have proven to be able to handle (though it is not probably optimized for it) the increased spring rates of various lowering springs for thousands of miles...". I know we're getting into heavy guessing here, but is thousands of miles 20K? Or 60K? I am thinking long term - ie, I'd prefer to replace the springs/shocks once and not worry about it again.

Driving style - let's go with "spirited". I like to throw the car around, don't mind the OEM setup that much (actually like it a little more than my old GSR sedan). I have a rear swaybar I've been meaning to put on, also some Whiteline springs, and wouldn't mind a little stiffer dampening. Also ok I'll admit it, a small part of the reason is vanity, like maybe 15% of the reason is the huge fender gaps bother me so maybe I'm a slight ricer.

Last, I did drive the car on a racetrack in the rain once last year when I was too lazy to take out my time trials Miata. I doubt I'll ever do that again but you never know. I'm trying not to let that effect my decision at all, but it is there in the back of my mind a little bit.

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate it.

- Mark

[rougeben83]

If you can get the HD bilsteins for that price, I think that's a good deal. But I don't really think most people will even make full use of the bilstein struts to warrant paying double of the GR2's to be honest. The GR2's have proven to be able to handle (though it is not probably optimized for it) the increased spring rates of various lowering springs for thousands of miles. In other words its good enough for the way most performance enthusiasts drive their car, even though it may "just be" a slightly better OEM replacement damper.

Hey you've done alot more with these cars then most people so you could say it's "voice of reason" vs "pretentious jerk"?

As I said before, I love Koni's - but just seems like too much work for me personally. Maybe if this was my only car and I was going to track it more, but since I have the Miata I kinda want this car to just be easy you know?

I just crossed 60k on my BE, paid it off last year, and the goal is to put another 60k+ on it. If I win the lotto before then I'm undecided on if I will get a new Legacy B-Spec or 3.0R, but either way - I'd try to get Huffer to buy my current one.

So - my concern with the above is "...GR2's have proven to be able to handle (though it is not probably optimized for it) the increased spring rates of various lowering springs for thousands of miles...". I know we're getting into heavy guessing here, but is thousands of miles 20K? Or 60K? I am thinking long term - ie, I'd prefer to replace the springs/shocks once and not worry about it again.

Driving style - let's go with "spirited". I like to throw the car around, don't mind the OEM setup that much (actually like it a little more than my old GSR sedan). I have a rear swaybar I've been meaning to put on, also some Whiteline springs, and wouldn't mind a little stiffer dampening. Also ok I'll admit it, a small part of the reason is vanity, like maybe 15% of the reason is the huge fender gaps bother me so maybe I'm a slight ricer.

Last, I did drive the car on a racetrack in the rain once last year when I was too lazy to take out my time trials Miata. I doubt I'll ever do that again but you never know. I'm trying not to let that effect my decision at all, but it is there in the back of my mind a little bit.

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate it.

- Mark

Nah, I wasn't referring to you personally, but I'm not blind to the fact that I can come off a little *too* straightforward to people sometimes...this includes having to tell them something that they may not want to hear (I guess my future profession has made me too thickskinned :razz: ).

Have you tried installing the swaybars first? When I was still in STX I ran a 22mm front and rear swaybar with the 80k suspension and it was a pretty dramatic difference in the way the car would turn in and how the back end would pivot midcorner. I never had a problem with the Legacy having too much bodyroll though, so I can't comment on just how much of the "handles on rails" feeling you'll get if you change springs or swaybars.

Anyway, the Bilsteins are a monotube design, so theyre made to take a lot more punishment (the monotube design has more lateral rigidity so that's why a lot of rally-type coilovers also use this design) and allow the shock oil to remain cooler after a lot of cycles, keeping the valve rate more consistent (ie like on a road course). They've probably gone through a little bit more QC than say an OEM replacement strut, so the chances of getting struts of very different valving is reduced. On top of that, they can be rebuilt and revalved domestically and relatively cheaply, and thats my basis for why theyre good struts.

With the GR2's, you're getting the standard twin-tube shock, but valved just a smidge higher. There's a couple of guys here that have put at least 15-20k miles on theirs w/ some kind of lowering spring, so I guess if you want more direct feedback you can search their threads and PM them?

Now, I think it boils down to just how much your budget is. If theres definite money for the bilsteins, I would buy that and never look back. However, if I have other things that I could spend that money on (like repairs, insurance, other parts that are higher on the priority list), I would have no problem sticking with the GR2.

Oh and for you BE/BH guys looking into other suspension options, I would PM JoeT as he has probably more experience with different setups on his turbo'ed autox BE than a few of us combined.

[KAG]

You guys owe me BIG TIME for this one!

:grin:

From the sales representative at shox.com:


When Bilstein raised their prices, some one here got overzealous in changing our price. I've set it up on the website for $659.00.
As you can see with the competition on line there isn't much room to get these anywhere near a KYB price. but I'll do $631.20 for the set of 4 for your club members.
Thanks
Mark

--
To order, just call, fax, or click here:

https://ssl.shox.com
Use generic quote #8761616

We look forward to hearing from you!!!!

SALES DEPARTMENT,
http://WWW.SHOX.COM
1300 Hill Street
El Cajon, California 92020 USA

800-683-2890
619-444-9766
Fax 619-444-8261
sales@shox.com

[rclsubaru]

You guys owe me BIG TIME for this one!

:grin:

From the sales representative at shox.com:


When Bilstein raised their prices, some one here got overzealous in changing our price. I've set it up on the website for $659.00.
As you can see with the competition on line there isn't much room to get these anywhere near a KYB price. but I'll do $631.20 for the set of 4 for your club members.
Thanks
Mark

--
To order, just call, fax, or click here:

https://ssl.shox.com
Use generic quote #8761616

We look forward to hearing from you!!!!

SALES DEPARTMENT,
http://WWW.SHOX.COM
1300 Hill Street
El Cajon, California 92020 USA

800-683-2890
619-444-9766
Fax 619-444-8261
sales@shox.com


Wow how nice of them is that? Good call on sending them an e-mail :smt023

Sounds pretty decent but still is a little over my budget. Maybe in a few months.

Its up to one of you guys to follow this through now :wink: Damn, I wish I had the cash for these..

[TheAngryPidgeon]

So, I've read over this thread, and g'damn $600+ seems like an awful lot. I do want to replace my struts when I install the ION Springs, but I don't think I need anything so race oriented in nature. I love my twisties, but I have yet to hit a track, and even if I do in the future, I don't think it would be often enough to justify that sort of sacrifice of ride quality for the extra performance.

What would you recommend that is sort of mid-range, leaning toward the performance side of the scale for my BD?

Thanks,

Phil

[Huffer]

KYB GR2's + moderate drop progressive rate springs.

KYB GR2 + Eibach (discontinued)
KYB GR2 + Whiteline Control
KYB GR2 + King Springs Low (my personal fav)

[TheAngryPidgeon]

So... something along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2 ... 7005r29808 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2-GR2-STRUTS-SHOCKS-SUBARU-LEGACY-4WD-95---99_W0QQitemZ400038721970QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090323?IMSfp=TL090323137005r29808)

Would I need to purchase additional items such as strut mounts or boots?

Thanks again, I'm painfully uneducated in the area of suspension.

[rougeben83]

So... something along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2 ... 7005r29808 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2-GR2-STRUTS-SHOCKS-SUBARU-LEGACY-4WD-95---99_W0QQitemZ400038721970QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090323?IMSfp=TL090323137005r29808)

Would I need to purchase additional items such as strut mounts or boots?

Thanks again, I'm painfully uneducated in the area of suspension.

If youre not going to be transferring those pieces over from your stock suspension, you'll need:

Fronts:
dust boot x2
Bumpstops x2
spring perch x2
dome washer going in between perch and top hat x2
tophat x2 (same as WRX, group n can be substituted)
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

rears:
dust boot x2
rubber isolator pad in btween spring and top hat x2
tophat x2
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

The bumpstop is built into the suspension on the rear. Front bilsteins have integrated bumpstops in the strut.

[rclsubaru]

So... something along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2 ... 7005r29808 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2-GR2-STRUTS-SHOCKS-SUBARU-LEGACY-4WD-95---99_W0QQitemZ400038721970QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090323?IMSfp=TL090323137005r29808)

Would I need to purchase additional items such as strut mounts or boots?

Thanks again, I'm painfully uneducated in the area of suspension.

If youre not going to be transferring those pieces over from your stock suspension, you'll need:

Fronts:
dust boot x2
Bumpstops x2
spring perch x2
dome washer going in between perch and top hat x2
tophat x2 (same as WRX, group n can be substituted)
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

rears:
dust boot x2
rubber isolator pad in btween spring and top hat x2
tophat x2
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

The bumpstop is built into the suspension on the rear. Front bilsteins have integrated bumpstops in the strut.

Where would you reccomend getting these items? Suby dealer? OEM parts website?

[rougeben83]

So... something along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2 ... 7005r29808 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-GR-2-GR2-STRUTS-SHOCKS-SUBARU-LEGACY-4WD-95---99_W0QQitemZ400038721970QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090323?IMSfp=TL090323137005r29808)

Would I need to purchase additional items such as strut mounts or boots?

Thanks again, I'm painfully uneducated in the area of suspension.

If youre not going to be transferring those pieces over from your stock suspension, you'll need:

Fronts:
dust boot x2
Bumpstops x2
spring perch x2
dome washer going in between perch and top hat x2
tophat x2 (same as WRX, group n can be substituted)
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

rears:
dust boot x2
rubber isolator pad in btween spring and top hat x2
tophat x2
lock nut for strut to tophat x2

The bumpstop is built into the suspension on the rear. Front bilsteins have integrated bumpstops in the strut.

Where would you reccomend getting these items? Suby dealer? OEM parts website?

junkyard :lol: The only things I would upgrade would be group N tophats since those can wear down over time. dustboots and washers can be all from a used car. You can use the front parts from a WRX or impreza, the assemblies are nearly identical save for the spring perch (in fact on some lowering springs you have to use the impreza spring perches because these are what was used on some European BE/BH's) The rear is more specific to this model though.

[rclsubaru]

I see, thanks. Too bad I've already scoured the local junkyard...not one decent subaru. Their all still on the roads over here :wink:
But yea I'll have to take a trip to some nearby towns and have a look, hopefully something will come up.

[keltik]

Ill just chime in with regards to JDM Bilsteins.
Mine give a beautifull soft ride on the road but you do get a lot of roll on the track.

Even at 120,000kms im starting to get some leakage on the rears and they are very soft. By the end of the year i plan on having them rebuilt and re-valved a little stiffer. Hopefully will be able to throw some slightly lower springs on too.

The ride is brilliant but they bottom out very easily and give wicked lift-off oversteer on the track in my BH
I would also be weary of buying 2nd hand JDM ones as most are close to dying when theyre imported into NZ

[rougeben83]

I see, thanks. Too bad I've already scoured the local junkyard...not one decent subaru. Their all still on the roads over here :wink:
But yea I'll have to take a trip to some nearby towns and have a look, hopefully something will come up.

He's in Ma, basically is going to throw out his old suspension. You can reuse a lot of the non-wear items from his set and put it into yours. Again, I would get new tophats.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1725475 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1725475)

Is there any reason why you don't want to reuse the washers, dustboots and bumpstops, etc from your current suspension? They can be reused and it is better if you're on a budget. I just bought the extra stuff so I can have the stock suspension as a backup set in case I need to send the bilsteins to be rebuild.


Ill just chime in with regards to JDM Bilsteins.
Mine give a beautifull soft ride on the road but you do get a lot of roll on the track.

Even at 120,000kms im starting to get some leakage on the rears and they are very soft. By the end of the year i plan on having them rebuilt and re-valved a little stiffer. Hopefully will be able to throw some slightly lower springs on too.

The ride is brilliant but they bottom out very easily and give wicked lift-off oversteer on the track in my BH
I would also be weary of buying 2nd hand JDM ones as most are close to dying when theyre imported into NZ

The body roll and running out of suspension travel prematurely is more a function of springs, which the stock jdm springs (while being stiffer than the USDM) still has to provide a good ride in daily driving. Definitely switch to a stiffer spring, like the WL flatouts if you want better body motion control on the track.

[JLav211]

Good timing on this post, as I'm close to tearing my hair out on what to do.

I have the GR2's with the Whiteline Control spring. To clear a few misconceptions up: Whiteline does not make a Flat Out spring for the BE. I asked Whiteline this question directly and that was their response. Similarily, King Springs does not make a spring for the BE - at least not anymore. Can anyone tell me if RSR makes such a spring, and if so, if it is any lower than the Control springs?

I was very close to buying the Stance coilover system, but I am having second thoughts. It's at least $1,200 (give or take), $300 for installation and $100 for a proper alignment. Additionally, I would likely buy a skid plate which costs $215. $2,000 for a car with 133K miles on it and little time spent on the track. Ideally, I would like to go a bit lower, hence the interest in the RSRs, but the coilover option seems a bit too pricey.

Bilsteins, if they are worth it on the BE, would be a good upgrade. My GR2's suck. They suck because they have not stood up to the abuse I've inflicted on them, and I was hoping for more than 60K miles before they started squeaking over bumps. Therefore, I hope the Bilsteins on shox.com are worth it, because I don't want to replace/rebuild them before I potentially sell the car. I don't think the GR2's are a bad shock, but they never really performed the way I wanted them to. I had Bilsteins on my old Merc 190E, and they transformed the car.

So this is a lot of verbal diahrea, but can anyone tell me where I might look (or start) to find these mysterious RSRs? And, if so, would they work when paired with the Bilsteins?

[KAG]

JLav - I've seen about a half dozen sets of RSR's already paired up with JDM Bilsteins on upgarage.com. You could try asking wagonofdoom if he can get a set to the states for you. Otherwise, I don't know of any places in the US that sells the RSR's for the BE.

[rougeben83]

Good timing on this post, as I'm close to tearing my hair out on what to do.

I have the GR2's with the Whiteline Control spring. To clear a few misconceptions up: Whiteline does not make a Flat Out spring for the BE. I asked Whiteline this question directly and that was their response. Similarily, King Springs does not make a spring for the BE - at least not anymore. Can anyone tell me if RSR makes such a spring, and if so, if it is any lower than the Control springs?

I was very close to buying the Stance coilover system, but I am having second thoughts. It's at least $1,200 (give or take), $300 for installation and $100 for a proper alignment. Additionally, I would likely buy a skid plate which costs $215. $2,000 for a car with 133K miles on it and little time spent on the track. Ideally, I would like to go a bit lower, hence the interest in the RSRs, but the coilover option seems a bit too pricey.

Bilsteins, if they are worth it on the BE, would be a good upgrade. My GR2's suck. They suck because they have not stood up to the abuse I've inflicted on them, and I was hoping for more than 60K miles before they started squeaking over bumps. Therefore, I hope the Bilsteins on shox.com are worth it, because I don't want to replace/rebuild them before I potentially sell the car. I don't think the GR2's are a bad shock, but they never really performed the way I wanted them to. I had Bilsteins on my old Merc 190E, and they transformed the car.

So this is a lot of verbal diahrea, but can anyone tell me where I might look (or start) to find these mysterious RSRs? And, if so, would they work when paired with the Bilsteins?

Since you don't have to breakdown the strut assembly on each side, installation is basically a whole assembly swap affair. Even with some fudging around on the camber plates, this took my local subaru "tuner" shop about 1.5hrs to do (I put together the bilstein/camber plate strut assemblies myself and just had them swap out the units on the car, very similar to as if I was having coilovers installed). It was around $120 for installation.

[JLav211]

OK - forgive me for being dense, but the Bilsteins require more "work" then the KYB's did? Not sure I follow you.

$120 is still better than $300 for the coil installation.

[Markus]

...I have the GR2's with the Whiteline Control spring...car with 133K miles on it and little time spent on the track...My GR2's suck. They suck because they have not stood up to the abuse I've inflicted on them, and I was hoping for more than 60K miles before they started squeaking over bumps...
I don't think the GR2's are a bad shock, but they never really performed the way I wanted them to...

Hey JLav -

Sorry to totally hack up what you wrote, but just trying to clarify a couple of things:
1) How many miles have you had the GR2's on your Leggy?
2) Are they squeaking but still working, or do you feel they are done?
3) Sounds like you like spiriting driving and maybe have done a track day or two? Is that an adequate assessment of how you used them?
4) Do you feel the GR2's just didn't meet your needs but might work for others, or do you not recommend them at all?

I also have a BE and some used lowering springs sitting around. I've been debating going the cheap route with the GR2's or saving up for Bilsteins.

Thanks,

- Mark

[JLav211]

...I have the GR2's with the Whiteline Control spring...car with 133K miles on it and little time spent on the track...My GR2's suck. They suck because they have not stood up to the abuse I've inflicted on them, and I was hoping for more than 60K miles before they started squeaking over bumps...
I don't think the GR2's are a bad shock, but they never really performed the way I wanted them to...

Hey JLav -

Sorry to totally hack up what you wrote, but just trying to clarify a couple of things:
1) How many miles have you had the GR2's on your Leggy?
2) Are they squeaking but still working, or do you feel they are done?
3) Sounds like you like spiriting driving and maybe have done a track day or two? Is that an adequate assessment of how you used them?
4) Do you feel the GR2's just didn't meet your needs but might work for others, or do you not recommend them at all?

I also have a BE and some used lowering springs sitting around. I've been debating going the cheap route with the GR2's or saving up for Bilsteins.

Thanks,

- Mark

Hey Mark - I did "slam" the GR2's, and I guess it's because I'm really done with the ride quality these days. Which, truth be told, is not entirely KYB's fault, as they didn't design these shocks for much more than OEM replacement applications. Your questions:

1) How many miles have you had the GR2's on your Leggy?
I had the GR2's/Whitelines installed at 60K; currently, I have 133K on the car.
2) Are they squeaking but still working, or do you feel they are done?
They are by and large still working. However, it's still dissapointing to hear them reacting the way they do to bumps/uneven road surfaces/etc. I do live in a city, so they do get punished a bit more than if you live in a more suburban setting.
3) Sounds like you like spiriting driving and maybe have done a track day or two? Is that an adequate assessment of how you used them?
I try to get a few autox's under my belt each summer. No track days.
4) Do you feel the GR2's just didn't meet your needs but might work for others, or do you not recommend them at all?
I guess if I had it to do over I would have gotten Bilsteins the first time, had I done the research to realize they were an option. The GR2's never really impressed me from a handling perspective nor have they blown me away in durability. They are simply adequate, which, had I spent another $300 to get Bilsteins, I have a feeling I would have been much happier. Hindsight!

Overall, if you don't do any sort of track applications and drive largely on smooth, country roads, they will provide a very nice ride. However, if you're like me and tend to push the car, either in the environment it's subjected to or how you use the car, I would go for the Bilsteins. I've gotten quite a few comments on how poor the ride quality is.

[rougeben83]

OK - forgive me for being dense, but the Bilsteins require more "work" then the KYB's did? Not sure I follow you.

$120 is still better than $300 for the coil installation.

ah no, the bilsteins install just like any OEM strut. I'm just saying that if you're going to be installing coilovers on the car, they're usually already assembled straight from the factory anyway, so its just a matter of swapping out the whole strut assembly for a coilover unit at each corner. Less time, and less $$$ than say getting just the struts replaced since you have to transfer all of your old hardware over to the new struts...

[Markus]

I had the GR2's/Whitelines installed at 60K; currently, I have 133K on the car.[/b]


Thanks for the real world feedback - I really do appreciate it! Interestingly, this is alot longer than I have heard from a couple other people in terms of expected lifespan with stiffer springs.

- Mark

[JLav211]

I had the GR2's/Whitelines installed at 60K; currently, I have 133K on the car.[/b]


Thanks for the real world feedback - I really do appreciate it! Interestingly, this is alot longer than I have heard from a couple other people in terms of expected lifespan with stiffer springs.

- Mark

Really? Hmm, maybe my expectations from the start have been a little unrealistic...

[JLav211]

JLav - I've seen about a half dozen sets of RSR's already paired up with JDM Bilsteins on upgarage.com. You could try asking wagonofdoom if he can get a set to the states for you. Otherwise, I don't know of any places in the US that sells the RSR's for the BE.

Can anyone translate Upgarage for me? To see if a set of these are for sale?

[JLav211]

You guys owe me BIG TIME for this one!

:grin:

From the sales representative at shox.com:


When Bilstein raised their prices, some one here got overzealous in changing our price. I've set it up on the website for $659.00.
As you can see with the competition on line there isn't much room to get these anywhere near a KYB price. but I'll do $631.20 for the set of 4 for your club members.
Thanks
Mark

--
To order, just call, fax, or click here:

https://ssl.shox.com
Use generic quote #8761616

We look forward to hearing from you!!!!

SALES DEPARTMENT,
http://WWW.SHOX.COM
1300 Hill Street
El Cajon, California 92020 USA

800-683-2890
619-444-9766
Fax 619-444-8261
sales@shox.com

Just ordered. Hopefully they're still offering this pricing; no "rejected" message showed up so I'm assuming it was processed at the correct price.

Thanks in advance.

[dodik]

does anyone know stock spring rates for BE outback? and has anyone tried rear springs from 08-09 wrx/sti yet?

[JLav211]

You guys owe me BIG TIME for this one!

:grin:

From the sales representative at shox.com:


When Bilstein raised their prices, some one here got overzealous in changing our price. I've set it up on the website for $659.00.
As you can see with the competition on line there isn't much room to get these anywhere near a KYB price. but I'll do $631.20 for the set of 4 for your club members.
Thanks
Mark

--
To order, just call, fax, or click here:

https://ssl.shox.com
Use generic quote #8761616

We look forward to hearing from you!!!!

SALES DEPARTMENT,
http://WWW.SHOX.COM
1300 Hill Street
El Cajon, California 92020 USA

800-683-2890
619-444-9766
Fax 619-444-8261
sales@shox.com

Just ordered. Hopefully they're still offering this pricing; no "rejected" message showed up so I'm assuming it was processed at the correct price.

Thanks in advance.

FYI, by sending that email, I essentially got these sent to me with free shipping (total to my door by 5/4/2009 of $661).

[KAG]

Just ordered. Hopefully they're still offering this pricing; no "rejected" message showed up so I'm assuming it was processed at the correct price.

Thanks in advance.

FYI, by sending that email, I essentially got these sent to me with free shipping (total to my door by 5/4/2009 of $661).
Awesome. Lucky for me, I get to pay CA sales tax :smt012

Let me know what your first impressions are when you install them. You're coming from the GR-2's you bought brand new, so any input you have is going to be very valuable.


does anyone know stock spring rates for BE outback? and has anyone tried rear springs from 08-09 wrx/sti yet?
Can't help you with the spring rates, but I've looked into the 08-09 Impreza rear suspension crossover for a while now. Although I'd be happy to be the guinea pig for this, I'm a little concerned it wouldn't even be worth to try due to the different mounting points of the multi-link suspension. 08+ Impreza's (all models) mount to the lower control arm while 00+ Legacy's mount to the trailing link.

[JLav211]

Let me know what your first impressions are when you install them. You're coming from the GR-2's you bought brand new, so any input you have is going to be very valuable.

I definitely will. I remember I was blown away the difference the HD's made on my old Merc 190, which had no other upgrades than sticker tires (no new bushings, no sways, no springs, etc. - all original, 140K mile equipment). Hopefully, given the improvements I made on the Legacy, I'll notice a similar improvement.

[JLav211]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/0461-1.jpg

Boo-YA. Ride is much improved; can't really comment on at-the-limit handling as I've not had the roads to push it on. I can say there is much less "crashing" and most significantly, the car's reactions are MUCH more buttoned down. Where the KYB's would get unsprung very easily, the Bilsteins stay composed and don't get nearly as spooked by road abrasions. A little thing called rebound. Also had a Rallitek front sway installed to compliemnt the rear sway.

Also, if you're in New England, go to Dent Sport Garage in Norwood. I've gone there a few times now and absolutely love it there.

[KAG]

Hell yes. I'll definitely get the Bilsteins then. Thanks Jeff!

[Yamazaki]

Are those the same Bilsteins that came with the J-spec BE?

[rougeben83]

Are those the same Bilsteins that came with the J-spec BE?

some of us BE/BH guys were talking about about that, but those are the HD struts that Bilstein sells in the US. Not 100% sure if they're the same as the OEM bilsteins on the JDM models...the part no.s are different for each one though.

[Markus]

You doing lowering springs or just the Bilstein's? Good looking car btw - would love to see some pix with the wheels on and on the ground. I wanted silver but since I'm cheap and buy used I ended up with dark red.

- Mark

[JLav211]

These are NOT the same ones that came on the JDM versions. For one thing, I don't have that God-awful reverse rake the JDM version does on USDM cars! :grin:

Another point worth making: I made an early trip to NY this morning when the interstates were clear - the composure this car has at 80+ MPH is unbelievable compared the KYBs. There were times I legit scared myself with how instead of forcing the car down towards the pavement, the KYBs would rebound to the point of coming off-line. Stupid. Now, with the Bilsteins and both sways, it's almost as if it's saying, "Is that the best you got?"

Mark - here's a pic of the car with the wheels. It has Whiteline Control springs; Rallitek front/rear sways w/ Whiteline steel endlinks; Hawk HPS pads front and rear; etc.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/0076-1.jpg

[Markus]

That is a nice looking car. You got a page in the ride forum here with other pix?

Height looks great. I have some Syms springs in the basement, been saving up for Bilsteins.

- Mark

[Yamazaki]

These are NOT the same ones that came on the JDM versions. For one thing, I don't have that God-awful reverse rake the JDM version does on USDM cars! :grin:

Another point worth making: I made an early trip to NY this morning when the interstates were clear - the composure this car has at 80+ MPH is unbelievable compared the KYBs. There were times I legit scared myself with how instead of forcing the car down towards the pavement, the KYBs would rebound to the point of coming off-line. Stupid. Now, with the Bilsteins and both sways, it's almost as if it's saying, "Is that the best you got?"

Mark - here's a pic of the car with the wheels. It has Whiteline Control springs; Rallitek front/rear sways w/ Whiteline steel endlinks; Hawk HPS pads front and rear; etc.


I really like the look and (more importantly) your satisfaction so much that I want to do that to my '00 Legacy. I had decided to just send back some OEM Japanese Bilsteins until you brought up "reverse rake". What is that?

[JLav211]

I really like the look and (more importantly) your satisfaction so much that I want to do that to my '00 Legacy. I had decided to just send back some OEM Japanese Bilsteins until you brought up "reverse rake". What is that?

I have heard (and seen) the JDM Bilsteins used on USDM cars cause the back to sit lower than the front. I've been told this is due to the JDM units accomodating for the heavier weight of the JDM turbo motors and thus sitting higher because of the reduction in weight with the USDM motors. No clue if there's any truth to this.

[Huffer]

That's entirely true.

[Yamazaki]

I really like the look and (more importantly) your satisfaction so much that I want to do that to my '00 Legacy. I had decided to just send back some OEM Japanese Bilsteins until you brought up "reverse rake". What is that?

I have heard (and seen) the JDM Bilsteins used on USDM cars cause the back to sit lower than the front. I've been told this is due to the JDM units accomodating for the heavier weight of the JDM turbo motors and thus sitting higher because of the reduction in weight with the USDM motors. No clue if there's any truth to this.
Really? So does anybody know if a flat-6 swap would take care of the unbalance issue (since I intend to do that anyway). Or better yet, maybe I can grab the suspension from the RS25 or the RS30. But the balance is the only difference then? Otherwise the suspension is the same?

[rougeben83]

I really like the look and (more importantly) your satisfaction so much that I want to do that to my '00 Legacy. I had decided to just send back some OEM Japanese Bilsteins until you brought up "reverse rake". What is that?

I have heard (and seen) the JDM Bilsteins used on USDM cars cause the back to sit lower than the front. I've been told this is due to the JDM units accomodating for the heavier weight of the JDM turbo motors and thus sitting higher because of the reduction in weight with the USDM motors. No clue if there's any truth to this.
Really? So does anybody know if a flat-6 swap would take care of the unbalance issue (since I intend to do that anyway). Or better yet, maybe I can grab the suspension from the RS25 or the RS30. But the balance is the only difference then? Otherwise the suspension is the same?

well it's the springs he's talking about. The strut has nothing to do with the ride height of the car. If you go with a lowering spring set like Jlav did, you won't have the front higher than the rear, regardless of strut you pair it up with.

[JLav211]

Alright fellas, I've finally found the elusive RSR Springs @ Japan Parts. Here's my concern - the language on the site seems to indicate these were for the Turbo model:

Spring rate: F: 3.86, R: 5.92. Front: 40-35mm, Rear: 35-30mm down. For BL5 Blistein equip model. Price is a set of four.

If I'm reading this correctly, does this mean these springs were only for the Bilstein equipped model? Which would have been the Turbo? My knowledge of JDM models is limited, at best. I'm afraid this means they will suffer from unsightly reverse rake.

Anyone know true lowering/spring rates of the Whiteline Controls? Trying to figure out if the RSR's are an improvement.

[Yamazaki]

Alright fellas, I've finally found the elusive RSR Springs @ Japan Parts. Here's my concern - the language on the site seems to indicate these were for the Turbo model:

Spring rate: F: 3.86, R: 5.92. Front: 40-35mm, Rear: 35-30mm down. For BL5 Blistein equip model. Price is a set of four.

If I'm reading this correctly, does this mean these springs were only for the Bilstein equipped model? Which would have been the Turbo? My knowledge of JDM models is limited, at best. I'm afraid this means they will suffer from unsightly reverse rake.

Anyone know true lowering/spring rates of the Whiteline Controls? Trying to figure out if the RSR's are an improvement.
I'll help you out with model information, and it may help you with your answer. Otherwise, somebody else will have to chime in.
First, non-turbo models got Bilsteins too. Only the base models (RS and S models for 3rd Gen) didn't. Second, a BL5 could be either a turbo or non-turbo. And that brings me to - your signature says you have a BE, and this suspension is for a BL. I don't know if they're interchangeable, this is where somebody else will have to say something.

[keltik]

As long as you fit the BL strut tops, the springs will fit fine. BH bilsteins have a wider strut top and the spring from a BL will not sit properly in them. Bottom perches and spring lengths between BL and BH are identical.

Tried fitting a set of BL springs to my BH a couple months ago and found this out first hand.

[JLav211]

I should have included this - this is the rest of the ad description:

Car Manufacturer: Subaru
Car Name: Legacy BP/BL <Liberty> 2003/2004/2005, Legacy BH/BE <Liberty>
MODEL: BL5/ BE

Would it make sense that the springs would work with either model?

Good to know that other models came with Bilsteins - I was afraid these might give me the dreaded reverse rake.

[JLav211]

Need to bump this up - any help appreciated.

I've been talking with the vendor JapanParts on NASIOC. They are telling me that RSR has specified these springs only be used on Legacies equipped with Bilsteins. What they cannot clarify (or won't) is whether this is because RSR doesn't want to see vehicles lowered without the sturdier Bilsteins, or if there is something tied into the suspension components of vehicles equipped with Bilsteins from the factory that is inherently unique and would require that my car have come the same way.

Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to which it is...? I'm thinking the former, and maybe I'm just dealing with a language barrier whereby we're saying the same thing but not in a coherent fashion. I don't know. I do have an email in to RSR.

Thanks for any help.

[rougeben83]

Need to bump this up - any help appreciated.

I've been talking with the vendor JapanParts on NASIOC. They are telling me that RSR has specified these springs only be used on Legacies equipped with Bilsteins. What they cannot clarify (or won't) is whether this is because RSR doesn't want to see vehicles lowered without the sturdier Bilsteins, or if there is something tied into the suspension components of vehicles equipped with Bilsteins from the factory that is inherently unique and would require that my car have come the same way.

Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to which it is...? I'm thinking the former, and maybe I'm just dealing with a language barrier whereby we're saying the same thing but not in a coherent fashion. I don't know. I do have an email in to RSR.

Thanks for any help.

the spring shape are still the same on the non-bilstein. The difference is they probably designed the really high spring rate to be paired up with the more aggressive damping rate (probably moreso on the rebound side than the compression) of the bilstein than anything else.

[Huffer]

I'd agree with that. Aggressively lowered springs will put more of a strain on the strut, so it makes sense to specify a heavier duty damper (and one that's rebuildable).

[dodik]

hey JLav211 if you ever find front top perches from 05+ let me know where i have a set of front springs sitting on a shelf for a while now, if you ever find the part number let me know. IMO its better to have firmer struts and softer springs then firm springs and soft struts. when spring is too hard for dampener it will feel like struts are busted while if dampener is stiff you'll actually have similar to coilover feel on the bumpy roads. Thats what i have now your old kybs + my stock springs and it handles amazingly. Although i think struts are going to wear out a bit earlier then they should've.