Brembo swap on 98 LGT

[ghscott]

I appologize if there is already a sticky on this.
I am looking for help with planning a Brembo brake swap on my LGT.
From what i understand the fronts should bolt right on without problem.
I have JDM UK WRX wheels that are 17x7 which should clear the calipers.
I hear that the rears require some specializing.
If i understand right the calipers are the same but the rotors need to come from a 04 STi since it has the same 5x100 bolt pattern.
I have heard mix instructions about using the Kartboy adapter or swapping out the hub from a 04 STi.
If anyone can help that would be great.
If anyone has done this, i would love some advice.

[KAG]

I have JDM UK WRX wheels that are 17x7 which should clear the calipers.
Unfortunately, the UK17's do NOT clear Brembo's, so you will need to get a new set of wheels. The wheels you have do clear the FHI 4-pots, but they are not wide enough with the correct offset to clear the giant Brembo front calipers.


I hear that the rears require some specializing.
Yes. You can either use the adapter bracket (Ken@WRXBrakes has one, Dan@MachV has one, and Tom@Kartboy has one) that will allow a full bolt-on or you can swap out the entire hub from an 04 STi.

Pretty much all of the information needed to swap the rears can be found here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20834020&postcount=2

[ghscott]

Thanks for the info
are you sure about the clearance with the 17x7 wheels
There is a post on a red 98 LGT with 2.5L hybrid swap that ran 17x8's and 17x7's for his winter wheel set up
i believe he put 215/45/17 tires on those. I know the stock 04 sti had 17x7.5 but i thought that these would clear
is there a preference when doing the swap adapter vs 04 sti hub? one better that the other

[KAG]

Thanks for the info
are you sure about the clearance with the 17x7 wheels
There is a post on a red 98 LGT with 2.5L hybrid swap that ran 17x8's and 17x7's for his winter wheel set up
i believe he put 215/45/17 tires on those. I know the stock 04 sti had 17x7.5 but i thought that these would clear
is there a preference when doing the swap adapter vs 04 sti hub? one better that the other
The UK WRX wheels will NOT clear Brembo's because of they're higher offset (ET55), not just because of the width.

The 17x7's that WhiteH20 had are Rota SDR's, which have a lower offset than the UK wheels. Of course, you can fit the Brembo's with spacers if you really needed to, but your wheel bearings will hate you.

As far as the adapter vs. hub swap - check that link I posted up above and you can sort through all the pros/cons of both options. The adapters are definitely easier in terms of installation, but neither way is going to be anything less than $200 if you're buying new.

[ghscott]

thanks, that stinks. I just got the UK WRX wheels cause i likes the looks. There a good set too.
I really want to go with brembo's but it doesn't seem like its going to work out unless i shell out more for wheels.
How happy can i be with the subaru 4 pot/2pot vs going brembo and selling my left kidney

[Shale]

IMO ver6 STi brakes might be worth a shot; not a lot smaller than Brembos and will fit many 16" and 17" wheels. Less modification required to get them in, too.

If you want Brembos you are best forking out for the rear end - hubs and all. You'll need to sell BOTH kidneys for Brembos :( (TRUST ME. I got just [JUST!] the calipers for $2500NZ, and I need most of a version 8 to get those and the gearbox in)

The ver6 et al brakes are a little smaller but still obscenely good: the difference really only shows in competition circumstances, as they don't necessarily brake any more or less effectively than the Brembos; but if either set is going to overheat and get brake fade, it's the GC8 ones.

As far as wheels that fit go - ver8 STi ones will, both JDM and USDM. These badboys are the JDM ones:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4080/dsc00027usr.jpg

They look miiiiiiighty fine in anthracite ;)

[end massive post by n00b with too much to say...]

[decke48]

heres a list a clearing wheels for brembos
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448097
you dont have ver. 7 uk wrx wheels?, cause those clear

[ghscott]

[quote="Shale"]IMO ver6 STi brakes might be worth a shot; not a lot smaller than Brembos and will fit many 16" and 17" wheels. Less modification required to get them in, too.

If you want Brembos you are best forking out for the rear end - hubs and all. You'll need to sell BOTH kidneys for Brembos :( (TRUST ME. I got just [JUST!] the calipers for $2500NZ, and I need most of a version 8 to get those and the gearbox in)

The ver6 et al brakes are a little smaller but still obscenely good: the difference really only shows in competition circumstances, as they don't necessarily brake any more or less effectively than the Brembos; but if either set is going to overheat and get brake fade, it's the GC8 ones.

For a complete noob can you explain what IMO ver6 sti brakes are? and where i can get them.
Have patience and pity the noob

[rougeben83]

theyre regular FHI 4pot/2pot combination that's been used in a lot of subarus from the mid 90's to the 06-07 WRX as well as the group N rally cars.

[Shale]

:) What Ben here said. AFAIK the version 3 and 4 STi (we're talking STis from '94 available in many RHD countries here) were still singles in the rear and slightly smaller in the front...I have ver3 STi rears in my Impreza and they're not two-pots.

Scott, the version 5 and 6 STi brakes I speak of were available on the STis from 1998 to 2000 - they look like the photo I posted a few posts back (but have bigger brakes, as mine is not an STi...just looks like one). They are 294mm in the front vs 303mm for the Brembos (from my very foggy memory, struggling to find reference! Those in the know please correct!.) The calipers are smaller, and the rotors thinner, but they are still absolutely brutal when you stand on the picks.

Here is a non-local example, the only one online at the moment...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 165438.htm (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Subaru/Brakes/auction-210165438.htm)

They are normally red.

(By the way, IMO = 'In My Opinion')

You will have to approach importers for second-hand ones. Remember that if you want ABS, you will have to ensure they are NOT!! Type R brakes - as the Type R had no ABS, being a track car.

There are some aftermarket replacements that are the same, potentially better, that I found whilst trying to find some facts and figures.

http://www.boxer4racing.com/Brakes.htm

These are a plus, at first glance, as brakes add to the unsprung weight of the vehicle and can reduce performance. The Brembos, speaking from EXPERIENCE, are ridiculously heavy. The front calipers are a handful to say the least. Version 6 and similar are lighter...which will make the car perform better. The rotors for the Brembos in particular are absurdly heavy as not only are they larger in diameter, they are very thick.

[chuckthefuk]

:) What Ben here said. AFAIK the version 3 and 4 STi (we're talking STis from '94 available in many RHD countries here) were still singles in the rear and slightly smaller in the front...I have ver3 STi rears in my Impreza and they're not two-pots.

Scott, the version 5 and 6 STi brakes I speak of were available on the STis from 1998 to 2000 - they look like the photo I posted a few posts back (but have bigger brakes, as mine is not an STi...just looks like one). They are 294mm in the front vs 303mm for the Brembos (from my very foggy memory, struggling to find reference! Those in the know please correct!.) The calipers are smaller, and the rotors thinner, but they are still absolutely brutal when you stand on the picks.


Standard 4-pot FHI black cast with white subaru lettering and 1-pot FHI black cast with whtie subaru lettering was standard on JDM GC8 STI's

The rear 2-pot FHI are available as an "option" on version 4+ sti.

No point in spending extra $$$ for brembo's unless you're going to cook them at the track. Just my .02

- Chuck

[LunchBox04V]

Not to thread jack, but I was thinking of doing the 4 Pot Subaru units. Would there be any brake bias issues with changing just the front brakes, and leaving the standard rears? ('99 BK) I guess that applies here too. lol

[Shale]

Not to thread jack, but I was thinking of doing the 4 Pot Subaru units. Would there be any brake bias issues with changing just the front brakes, and leaving the standard rears? ('99 BK) I guess that applies here too. lol

I did it the opposite way around (260mm HX singles in the front, 265mm STi singles in the rear, lmfao). I put Bendix Ultimates pads in the front and Bendix Advance pads in the rear to compensate...the rears clamp almost as well as the fronts, but are still biased toward the front of course. On that note the Ultimates pads have absolutely shagged my not-so-pretty front left wheel, because they spit black dust like nothing elses. Jif is about the only thing that gets 'em clean.

You'd probably want to compensate in a similar way, or you'll be doing fishies all over the road under heavy braking...your rear may snap out, as those front brakes are REALLY good :shock:

[Huffer]

Not to thread jack, but I was thinking of doing the 4 Pot Subaru units. Would there be any brake bias issues with changing just the front brakes, and leaving the standard rears? ('99 BK) I guess that applies here too. lol

Your brake bias will be shifted forward, along with your mass with the larger brakes. Your front end will dive more under heavy braking.
(assuming an otherwise stock vehicle)

[LunchBox04V]

Well on the 13th the TEIN Flex go on, so that would help the dive. I am a little leary about doing just the fronts. I might just do GT/Outback's all around. Right now I can WAY out perform my brakes. I warped the crap out of my last set of rotors. Massive amounts of fade...... (215/45/17 BFG KDW2's.... :smt007 ) Not to mention the "L" model never had amazing brakes to start with. Heck even some slotted rotors would be nice..... :roll: :lol:

[ghscott]

WOW, my head is spinning.

I just got into this suby craze about a year ago when i bought my 98 LGT which had a swapped 03 wrx and JDM 5MT with the JDM LSD. It has a modest stage 2 tune so it moves well. I feel the brakes are inferior to my liking and am looking to upgrade. I am a very spirited driver and race anything that tempts me. I do not go to the track. I have recently bought the JDM UK wrx wheels and like the look.

It seems that brembo's will not fit me as i am not looking to buying more wheels to fit these brakes.
What do you guys think for stoptech and do they make them for my 98 LGT. I was thinking of going with the
subaru 2 pots in the rear, like from the 06 wrx, and the stoptech BBK in the front.

Any thoughts as to the brake setup from endless?

again, pity the noob that is just looking for a good quality brake set-up

[KAG]

Got it. So, you're swapped huh? I was getting ready to call you crazy for wanting to put giant Brembos brakes that cost upwards of $1k on a stock n/a 98 LGT that's worth (at the most) $5k to begin with, but now I see your reasoning :smt002

I personally think that you'd have a good setup with the FHI 4pot/2pot setup. 11.5" vented fronts and 11.3" vented rears make for a really well balanced braking system. If you want to go with bigger front calipers to accommodate for larger rotors like you said, I don't see the harm in doing so. However, there's no promising that the UK17's will clear any other calipers like to the Brembos (Stoptech, Endless, Wilwood, Rotora are some of the most popular 4pots for Subarus). The FHI 4pots are relatively small in size, which is why there are plenty of 17" and even 16" wheels that clear them.

Oh, and feel free to post up pics of your swapped BD when you get the chance :smile:

[ghscott]

thanks for the info. does anyone know a good site to find pricing on the BBK's for the front like stoptech, endless, and such.
Any thoughts on the racingbrake BBK? Not sure if it is much better than the subaru 4 pot off the wrx TR.

Noob clarification needed...FHI = ?

I promise to get some pics of my suby when she is cleaned up.

[hellaGT]

However, there's no promising that the UK17's will clear any other calipers like to the Brembos (Stoptech, Endless, Wilwood, Rotora are some of the most popular 4pots for Subarus). The FHI 4pots are relatively small in size, which is why there are plenty of 17" and even 16" wheels that clear them.

Oh, and feel free to post up pics of your swapped BD when you get the chance :smile:

Not to also thread jack... Kyle, do you know if my STI v2 wheels will clear the said subaru 4pots? I would guess they do since they are STI wheels but they are also still 16''s. Thanks.

[KAG]

FHI = Fuji Heavy Industries. The FHI 4pots I'm referring to are really the 06/07 WRX calipers.

You can find BBK's all over the internet at various websites. NASIOC is a good place to look for used ones and there are also several vendors on there who can sell the Stoptechs, Endless, Wilwood, etc. oakos.com is a good place to buy the racingbrake BBK if you decide that's the route you want to take (see: link (http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=355&Product_Code=RB2010-111-411&Category_Code=920))


Not to also thread jack... Kyle, do you know if my STI v2 wheels will clear the said subaru 4pots? I would guess they do since they are STI wheels but they are also still 16''s. Thanks.
Trevor - I'm almost positive that the v2 STi wheels do not clear the FHI 4-pots without the use of at least a 3mm spacer. They're 16x6.5 ET55, so they're very similar to the standard 02-04 WRX wheels we got here. The v4/v5 STi, or 98/99 2.5RS wheels definitely clear them, however.

[rougeben83]

I'm linking you to the brake interchageability thread on NASIOC because it's quicker than me going through all the permutations that are possible for you.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1529797 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1529797)

And another list.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1265631 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1265631)

[ghscott]

has anyone used the BBK by racing brake? Likes or dislikes? can't find much for reviews.

[Piddster]

I have the RacingBrake 4 pot front kit that fits under 16" wheels. I've been very happy with the setup, and the calipers are a fair amount lighter than the FHI 4 pots. They also use WRX rotors and the same pads as the FHI 4 pots, so replacements are very reasonable.




FYI, you need different backing plates to use the 2 pot rears, or the adapter that someone sells, but I cannot remember who. Changing the rear backing plates mean pressing the hubs out, and replacing the bearings and seals while you are in there. The adapters are $225 which is slightly cheaper than the parts to change the rear backing plates, not including labor.



Also, you can't just swap to STi rear knuckles without STi axles which mean and R180, and so on, unless you make hybrid axles like I have in the works to use an R180.


Lastly, heavier calipers are unsprung, meaning they do not make the car dive more under braking. Sprung weight would do that.



https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/04/newwheels3-1.jpg

[ghscott]

your post is much appreciated. so you have the racing brake calipers in the front, what do you have in the rear and can you post a pic? i know racing brake makes a larger rear brake upgrade kit, but i think i like the FHI 2 pots for the rear.

When comparing racing brakes kit to FHI, is one substantially better or just lighter?

[Piddster]

The RacingBrake setup is lighter, and they have redesigned the calipers since I got my setup three years ago. They use the same pads and rotors, so performance should be pretty much the same. When I got the setup, the RB kit was only $150 more than the FHI 4 pot setup from Teagues, so to me it was a no-brainer.

I haven't done anything in the rear yet as I have other priorities in getting everything into the new shell. An R180 was higher on the list. Also, I still need to buy about $800 in materials to paint the car, so fancy rear brakes will have to wait.

[ghscott]

i understand the need to budget out the money. if you were going to take care of the rear brakes what would you do? Do you care about making the rears look like the fronts in relation to the looks of the caliper? I am interested in this...

Do share what is teagues?

[Huffer]

Teagues = boxer4racing.com

[Piddster]

Yeah, sorry about not explaining what teagues was.


I like the RB rear BBK's for their simplicity. If I were going that route, I'd get the set for the Legacy SS with the vented rotors. You need SS rear calipers though.


If I currently had the loot, I'd get '04 STi rear knuckles to go with my R180 and STi axles and I could bolt on some red 2-pots. Instead I need to settle on hybrid axles for now and maybe something next winter. I have other things to do next winter though, like go through my 6mt. :mad: So I can only speak for myself in that respect. It all depends on where it is on my list and how big of a priority it is. I wanted an R180 instead of my cooked VLSD, so I decided to go for it instead of nice rear brakes. They will come, eventually.

[ghscott]

no prob,

If you were to choose between the FHI 2 pots and the Racing brake H6 rear upgrade what would you go with. Dont worry about pricing, i am talking performance wise.

When you mention RB BBK, i am assuming that is racing brake's BBK for the rears? is that the same as their H6 rear upgrade?

thanks for the clarification, i am trying to get all my facts straight before i drop the dough for brakes all around

[jamal]

Your brake bias will be shifted forward, along with your mass with the larger brakes. Your front end will dive more under heavy braking.
(assuming an otherwise stock vehicle)

actually, if he has 276mm 2-pots, the bias will stay exactly the same. The pistons on the 4-pots are smaller than the 2-pots.

Brake dive is much more affected by suspension geometry and deceleration rate than a small bias change.