bigger adjustable sway bar

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Well I desided I need to get the mod iv put off for to long and I need get a rear sway before I get rims/wheels ect. I almost orderd the whiteline 18-20-21mm bar but does anyone make a 20-22-23/24mm bar? or something like that I thought I remember seeing one but I couldn't find one I'm just thinking 18mm isn't much improvement over the 16mm so I would set it at 20mm then up to 21 for track/auto-x/fun but a 1mm increas isn't much at all I'm thinking with a 20-22-23/24 I could leave it on 22 for most of the time, put it to 20mm in the winter or for rally-x and 23/24mm for race/auto-x/fun? I'm the only one that drives my car and I never have alot in the trunk. What do you guys think? should I try to find one or get the rallitek 22mm or am I being to picky and I should just order the whiteline one?

[dplacencia]

I just installed the whiteline 22mm front adj and the 20mm rear adj on my 97 GT sedan. Before I had the oEM 20mm front and outback 18mm rear. It was nice but now the car feels a lot more planted. i have the front set to hard and the rear set to the middle.

[jamal]

Here's a chart that shows the stiffness change with diameter:

http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/sway/sway.html

I went with 22mm front and rear adjustables, and have the front set to soft and the rear to medium. With stickier tires I would want them stiffer, and have been meaning to play around more with adjustments.

More rear bar, combined with a lot of front camber and an ALK has pretty much eliminated understeer.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

I looked at whitelines stiffness chart but it doesn't really mean much to me because I havent had anything but my stock sway bar. A %100 increase in stiffnes doesnt give a car 2 times as much over steer or 2 times as much grip. Going from 16mm-18mm is like a 147% increase or something like that, it makes a noticable difference but not a huge one.

Can we talk 18-20-21mm here not "soft medium hard" because that can change from bar to bar.

JAMAL
1. ALK?
2. so u have the 20-22-24mm rear?

Whitelines site is confusing whats the difference bettween heavy duty and X-heavy duty bars?

Is there another place I can get whiteline bars other than boxer4racing?

and iv heard that stiffer sways make ur car less off-roadable but then when people ask about making a rally/rally-x car the first thing people say is to get bigger adjustable sways can someone elaborate?

[Huffer]

So this auto-x class you're going into - what restrictions does it have on swaybars?

You always make posts like this - competing goals and competing restrictions.

[rclsubaru]

I have the 22mm Rallitek rear bar and its great, I would totally suggest it. Simple and effective as hell :wink:

[rougeben83]

ugh, do you want to be competitive in autox/rallyx or are you just doing it for fun? In other words are you preparing your car for a particular class so you have a shot at winning or are you just doing it for shits n giggles?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Basicaly just fun untill I get good but that probably wont be this year lol
I'm basicaly just making my car faster for the street and trying not to bump me up a class if i can but if something does i can always remaove it if its like a sway or endlinks or something

STS IIRC

225 max tire size
any intake mod before the TB so I'm guna get a CAI but not the group A TB spacer I was guna get
I believe you can have headers and a cat-back but you have to have stock cats
and you can have a REAR swaybar but front has to be stock


I got about $500 and I was guna save and get 04 STi rims of nasioc and 225 performance tires if there wasnt any on them but I really need a rear sway first.

[rougeben83]

you don't "need" a rear sway bar first, that's just what you want to get first, it's ok to be honest :wink: Tires will get you the biggest gains, think about it, it's the only thing that's stopping, turning and making your car go. Even a decent set of tires on your stock wheels will be a lot better than BBS wheels with some crappy all seasons on them, from a performance perspective.

FWIW, Tirerack is having a really great closeout on the Bridestone RE01R's (a favorite tire to run in SCCA Nationals) right now. I think they still have some 205/55/16's for around $260 for all four :smt023

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... nza+RE-01R (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-01R)

And if you want to really learn how to handle your car, I would spend some of that budget just running your car in autox as-is. You'll develop a better understanding of what you want to change on the car and then find the right parts to make it happen. Using hearsay on internet forums to blindly modify your car isn't the best way to get the most out of your money, to say the least...

[ScaryFatKidGT]

thanks^

Even a decent set of tires on your stock wheels will be a lot better than BBS wheels with some crappy all seasons on them, from a performance perspective. Yes True.


Well I have drove my car pretty hard and its imposable to get the back end to rotate unless your in snow or on loose gravel, on anything paved it just understeers. Its harder to rotate than my FWD ford escort (i think because the escot has narrower bald tires) but anyway thats why I want a rear sway.

They changed the classes for 09 I would be in ST...except I think my aluminum pitch mount would have to come off. Also I think STi rims would be perfect 7.5" with 225's.

Rub strips, emblems, and mud flaps removed
Body kits, spoilers, and wings added
Tires up to 225 mm wide, UTQG treadwear 140 minimum
Wheels up to 7½ inches wide, any diameter/offset
Shocks/struts
Drilled/slotted rotors (standard size) and braided DOT brake lines
Anti-roll bars, front and rear
Lowered suspensions using standard-type springs
Suspension bushings (non-metallic)
Camber kits, plates, or bolts
Traction bars, torque arms, panhard rods
Strut bars, 2-point only
Battery relocated
Air filter systems up to throttle body or compressor inlet
Headers, emissions compliant
Engine computers (PCM/ECU) reprogrammed
Shifter kits
Accessory drive pulleys
Motor mounts (non-metallic)
Example of included cars: Audi A4 1.8T and TT (non-quattro), Mazda 323 GT
and GTX (AWD), Volkswagen Golf/GTi/Jetta/Beetle/Passat 1.8T and TDI,
Volvo S40 (except T5) and V40
Example of excluded cars: Datsun Z 2+2, Honda CRX, MGB GT, Porsche
(all), Triumph (all)
STS is for sports cars with 2 seats

[ScaryFatKidGT]

not to be rude nobody has answered any of my sway questions can someone please

1. whats ALK? Anti Lift Kit got it-

2. Is there another place I can get whiteline bars other than boxer4racing?

3. On whiteline bars whats the difference between "heavy duty" and "X-heavy duty"

4. Does white line make a 20-22-23/24 bar? If i have it set to 20mm (soft) my car wont be so tail happy my mom cant drive it will it? lol

5. Iv heard that stiffer sways make your car less off-roadable but then when people ask about making a rally/rally-x car the first thing people say is to get bigger adjustable sways can someone elaborate?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

you don't "need" a rear sway bar first, that's just what you want to get first, it's ok to be honest :wink: Tires will get you the biggest gains, think about it, it's the only thing that's stopping, turning and making your car go. Even a decent set of tires on your stock wheels will be a lot better than BBS wheels with some crappy all seasons on them, from a performance perspective.

FWIW, Tirerack is having a really great closeout on the Bridestone RE01R's (a favorite tire to run in SCCA Nationals) right now. I think they still have some 205/55/16's for around $260 for all four :smt023

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... nza+RE-01R (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-01R)


wow I see that I just might get them for my 16" snowflakes because there so cheap

um I have been looking around on tire rack. could u suggest some summer performance tires that would be a little better in rain? Its only auto-x and I would be willing to trade some grip for not flying off the road if I get caught in a thunderstorm, but I will probably just get the RE-01's idk.

[chuckthefuk]

not to be rude nobody has answered any of my sway questions can someone please

1. whats ALK? Anti Lift Kit got it-

2. Is there another place I can get whiteline bars other than boxer4racing?

3. On whiteline bars whats the difference between "heavy duty" and "X-heavy duty"

4. Does white line make a 20-22-23/24 bar? If i have it set to 20mm (soft) my car wont be so tail happy my mom cant drive it will it? lol

5. Iv heard that stiffer sways make your car less off-roadable but then when people ask about making a rally/rally-x car the first thing people say is to get bigger adjustable sways can someone elaborate?


1) Anti lift kit's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dVT_dmfsVQ
"The anti-lift kit (ALK) is designed to add 0.5 deg static positive castor to both front wheels while introducing a substantial amount of front anti-lift. By changing the front control arm geometry, the new anodised alloy mounts coupled with the new low compliance polyurethane bushes oppose front lift under acceleration. This leads to superior traction, reducing understeer allowing more power, faster acceleration and cornering.
The additional static caster coupled with the new firmer bushes, deliver more dynamic caster dramatically sharpening initial turn-in response, forcing more consistent alignment angles through the corner allowing higher exit speeds."

2) Ebay, http://www.thefind.com

3) Swaybar 20mm-heavy duty. excl turbo 9/97-98 BSF14
Swaybar 20mm-heavy duty *WSL. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19
Swaybar 22mm-X h/duty Blade adjustable. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19XZ
Swaybar 22mm-X heavy duty. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19X
Swaybar 22mm-X heavy duty *WSL. excl turbo 9/97-98 BSF14X
looks like the "X" is a static 22mm non adjustable.

4) Yes http://www.whiteline.com.au/parts . I am running a static 20mm at the moment and its makes the rear more feel firm and planted.
5) no comment

-Chuck

[rougeben83]

you do realize ALK's will put you in SM right? That's the "modifying suspension pick up points" in the rule book. ALK's move your rear control arm pickup point 10-20mm depending on which one you get.

5) swaybar limit independent suspension articulation. If you think about it, the swaybar is just a lever that works on one end of the suspension by using the other end. You connect them both with a bigger/stronger lever and movement on one side will have a greater effect on the movement of the other side.

How big a swaybar you run in rallycross depends on what kind of surface you run. I tend to avoid the open field/soft grass events nowadays just because the RWD cars and SUVs tend to dig ginormous ruts in the good lines near the end of the day. But often its because I run out of ground clearance first before any suspension articulation is lost. 22mm f/r is fine for me when I for rallycross. You go with the autox special bars like the 27mm, 29mm, even the 32mm custom jobs some guys run (these setups are not for street use anyway btw) and that's another story.

You CANNOT make a car handle well in autox and expect it to handle well in rallyx. They require two different kinds of suspension setups. Furthermore, for my needs as a daily driver, I had to make a lot of compromises in my suspension modifications so I can have a car that can reasonably do all three. Other guys may want more on one end or willing to sacrifice more in the other areas.

Like I said before, I would just change your tires now, and then actually learn and enjoy driving the car in these events instead of making lists upon lists of modifications. In the long run, it'll be cheaper to just change the parts that need changing than having a whole bunch of pieces that looked good on paper, but can't work together a damn to put together a decent run.

[rougeben83]

you don't "need" a rear sway bar first, that's just what you want to get first, it's ok to be honest :wink: Tires will get you the biggest gains, think about it, it's the only thing that's stopping, turning and making your car go. Even a decent set of tires on your stock wheels will be a lot better than BBS wheels with some crappy all seasons on them, from a performance perspective.

FWIW, Tirerack is having a really great closeout on the Bridestone RE01R's (a favorite tire to run in SCCA Nationals) right now. I think they still have some 205/55/16's for around $260 for all four :smt023

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... nza+RE-01R (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-01R)


wow I see that I just might get them for my 16" snowflakes because there so cheap

um I have been looking around on tire rack. could u suggest some summer performance tires that would be a little better in rain? Its only auto-x and I would be willing to trade some grip for not flying off the road if I get caught in a thunderstorm, but I will probably just get the RE-01's idk.

those re01r's are pretty good in the rain. Azenis 615's are even less siped and people have driven through downpours perfectly fine with them. Just don't think your AWD is going to let you drive in the rain like you would on a twisty, dry road.

You want a great rain tire, there's the gd F1 gsd3, but they're like twice the price. If I hadn't gotten mine used, I wouldn't be running them.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

you do realize ALK's will put you in SM right? That's the "modifying suspension pick up points" in the rule book. ALK's move your rear control arm pickup point 10-20mm depending on which one you get.
yes I just didn't know what ALK meant


5) swaybar limit independent suspension articulation. If you think about it, the swaybar is just a lever that works on one end of the suspension by using the other end. You connect them both with a bigger/stronger lever and movement on one side will have a greater effect on the movement of the other side.
ok


How big a swaybar you run in rallycross depends on what kind of surface you run. I tend to avoid the open field/soft grass events nowadays just because the higher hp cars tend to dig ginormous ruts in the good lines near the end of the day. But often its because I run out of ground clearance first before any suspension articulation is lost. 22mm f/r is fine for me when I for rallycross. You go with the autox special bars like the 27mm, 29mm, even the 32mm custom jobs some guys run (these setups are not for street use anyway btw) and that's another story.

You CANNOT make a car handle well in autox and expect it to handle well in rallyx. They require two different kinds of suspension setups. Furthermore, for my needs as a daily driver, I had to make a lot of compromises in my suspension modifications so I can have a car that can reasonably do all three. Other guys may want more on one end or willing to sacrifice more in the other areas.
well right now I was just looking for a 20-22-23/24mm adjustable rear bar


Like I said before, I would just change your tires now, and then actually learn and enjoy driving the car in these events instead of making lists upon lists of modifications. In the long run, it'll be cheaper to just change the parts that need changing than having a whole bunch of pieces that looked good on paper, but can't work together a damn to put together a decent run.
OK. Well tire rack doesn't have any more RE-01's in 205/55/R16 so I will need to find something else.

[dplacencia]

Another place that sell the whiteline swaybars for a great price is neverenoughauto.com I bought my swaybars from there. :wink:

[KAG]

Another place that sell the whiteline swaybars for a great price is neverenoughauto.com I bought my swaybars from there. :wink:
+1. They were the only place to have the correct swaybar for my BE. Otherwise, Turn In Concepts are very nice people and have a very good hookup as a vendor with Whiteline.

scaryfatkidgt - The part number for the 20-22-24 bar you want is BSR19XXZ. You will also need new endlinks, Whiteline part number KLC26.

And yeah, don't get an ALK if you plan to start auto-x anytime soon.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ok thx alot

wait I NEED new endlinks??

[KAG]

Think about it. You're going from a 16mm bar to a 22mm bar - the stock endlinks aren't going to hold up very well, or very long. It's your choice, but I'd highly recommend upgrading them.

You can also get the group A ones from Reason btw.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

So what will happen if I dont get links? and wouldn't running a 20-22-24mm bar with solid links put me in risk of breaking my rear sway bar mount?

Swaybar 20mm-heavy duty. excl turbo 9/97-98 BSF14
Swaybar 20mm-heavy duty *WSL. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19
Swaybar 22mm-X h/duty Blade adjustable. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19XZ < whats this one?
Swaybar 22mm-X heavy duty. excl turbo 94-8/97 BSF19X
Swaybar 22mm-X heavy duty *WSL. excl turbo 9/97-98 BSF14X

I dont get what all the abriviations mean

so the 20-22-24mm adjustable bar for a BD is BSF19XXZ? cuz il buy that one then

[dplacencia]

It's a good idea too if your going to be pushing it a lot to get the rear heavy duty mount too.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

mmhhhhh money every thing is going to be alot for bar links+mount

i was thinking i could just get a bar for now


edit:maybe il go backwards so nothing breaks and get the mount first then links front and back then the bar?

links or the heavy duty mount wouldnt throw me out of ST class would they?

[jamal]

1) Anti lift kit's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dVT_dmfsVQ
"The anti-lift kit (ALK) is designed to add 0.5 deg static positive castor to both front wheels while introducing a substantial amount of front anti-lift. By changing the front control arm geometry, the new anodised alloy mounts coupled with the new low compliance polyurethane bushes oppose front lift under acceleration. This leads to superior traction, reducing understeer allowing more power, faster acceleration and cornering.
The additional static caster coupled with the new firmer bushes, deliver more dynamic caster dramatically sharpening initial turn-in response, forcing more consistent alignment angles through the corner allowing higher exit speeds."



That description is actually completely wrong. An ALK does not add anti-lift, it removes it. All the anti-dive geometry is removed as well. This means that your shock and spring are absorbing weight transfer caused braking and acceleration forces, instead of having some of it resisted by the chassis. removing the anti-geometry softens the front under braking and acceleration, which improves grip.

As for the swaybars, go to the whiteline website and look at the catalog for your car.

Using "20-22-24" or whatever terminology is somewhat inaccurate but it works I guess. I just call my rear swaybar a 22mm adjustable. It's part number is BSR19XXZ. The R means rear, the XX means extra-heavy duty, the Z means adjustable.

[rougeben83]

you don't "need" a rear sway bar first, that's just what you want to get first, it's ok to be honest :wink: Tires will get you the biggest gains, think about it, it's the only thing that's stopping, turning and making your car go. Even a decent set of tires on your stock wheels will be a lot better than BBS wheels with some crappy all seasons on them, from a performance perspective.

FWIW, Tirerack is having a really great closeout on the Bridestone RE01R's (a favorite tire to run in SCCA Nationals) right now. I think they still have some 205/55/16's for around $260 for all four :smt023

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... nza+RE-01R (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-01R)


wow I see that I just might get them for my 16" snowflakes because there so cheap

um I have been looking around on tire rack. could u suggest some summer performance tires that would be a little better in rain? Its only auto-x and I would be willing to trade some grip for not flying off the road if I get caught in a thunderstorm, but I will probably just get the RE-01's idk.

TR is having a clearance on hankook evo's as well. 225/45/17 for $77/ea...

[ScaryFatKidGT]

As for the swaybars, go to the whiteline website and look at the catalog for your car.

Using "20-22-24" or whatever terminology is somewhat inaccurate but it works I guess. I just call my rear swaybar a 22mm adjustable. It's part number is BSR19XXZ. The R means rear, the XX means extra-heavy duty, the Z means adjustable.

thank for telling me what that all means now i can actually understand there site

ok so i guess im looking for a 22mm adjustable the BSR19XXZ boxer4 only has a 20mm adjustable

[jamal]

no problem. anyone who sells whiteline will be able to order it for you; robispec, rallysportdirect, turn in concepts, racecomp engineering, etc. Just go with your nearest/favorite vendor.