Swaybar FAQ

[jamal]

Updated 2/13/18

I've noticed a lot of swaybar related threads in the short time I've been around here, and I also have noticed a lot of misinformation and contradictory advice. So I thought I'd polish up my old legacycentral FAQ and post it over here.

I'd like to start by talking about how our cars handle and what happens to our tires and suspension when we go around corners.

From a flat out, on-road performance standpoint, a subaru starts out at somewhat of a disadvantage. Off the showroom, these cars are set up to understeer, and understeer some more. And then keep on understeering. Understeer is when, in a corner, the front tires break traction and begin to slide so you are turning the wheel but the car is going straight.

One reason for this is the AWD. You have four wheels powering the car, and give the fronts the additional task of steering. That right off the bat means that while accelerating and turning, the front tires have more work to do and will lose traction first.

Another problem is the weight distribution. On top of asking the front tires to both accelerate the vehicle and steer, you've gone and put more weight on them. Guess where that leads.

Now we come to the alignment and suspension geometry. When the suspension moves, the alignment changes. This can be advantageous with proper suspension design. In our case, the suspension design was based more on packaging concerns, cost, and travel for rally. A tire creates the most grip when the entire tread is in contact with the road. So driving along in a straight line or braking we want the tire to be standing straight up with the tread flat on the ground for even tire wear and optimum braking traction. However, if we set the camber to 0, that ideal contact goes out the window as soon as the steering wheel is turned. When you go around a corner with the stock car, the car leans over, the tire leans over, and you end up doing most of the cornering with the outside edge of the tire and the sidewall. Obviously the sidewall is not supposed to be in contact with the road and that's not good for grip. Additionally, when the suspension compresses past a certain point the tire will actually start to lean outwards, which makes the problem even worse.

On top of these inherent handling disadvantages, the cars are setup to push at the limit. This is because it's generally safer to go off the road straight than it is backwards/sideways, and inexperienced drivers tend to have trouble dealing with oversteer. There's also something called lift-throttle oversteer, and it's a common cause for crashed wrxes.

Okay so what do I do about it, and what does this have to do with swaybars?

One part of the solution is the alignment. Start with the tire leaned in (negative camber), and when the car rolls the tire ends up with more tread contact. This is especially important in the front, where we have more weight and more load in a corner. More negative camber in the front means more grip while cornering and less understeer. How much camber you should have depends on the use of the car and the tires among other things. A pure racetrack or auto-x only car will often have at least -3 degrees (stock is 0 to -1) along with stiff suspension and low profile tires that flex less. On a street car that mostly gets driven in a straight line and never sees high cornering loads this would not be a good thing and you would see uneven tire wear. You can still get away with quite a bit though and I daily drive with -2.5 degrees of front camber and the tires look pretty good. However, it is important to have the toe set to 0 and make sure all of your suspension and steering components are in good condition. The alignment as you drive down the road, brake, acclerate, and corner will change compared to what it is on the rack because of flex in bushings and suspension components. This gets worse as the bushings age.

So we've established that alignment is important, and why it is important, so you can probably see where I'm going with this post about swaybars. If the car sees less body roll, we reduce how far the tire leans over and improve grip. That's where stiffer suspension and swaybars come in.

What is a swaybar?

A swaybar (aka anti-swaybar, anti-roll bar etc), is a bar that connects the left and right sides of the suspension. It twists to resist the suspension on one side of the car from being at a different height than the other side. Swaybars exist to add roll stiffness without adding ride stiffness so that a car will ride comfortably but still stay relatively flat in corners.

What is roll stiffness?

Roll stiffness is a car's resistance to body roll. Body roll is caused by cornering force. Cornering causes a lateral acceleration, and that force acts through the center of gravity about an imaginary point called a roll center (that's a hint at why roll center height is important). Both the springs and the swaybars resist this rolling force. A cool guy who goes by stretch actually went through all the work of measuring out the suspension geometry of an STi and found that even the stock swaybars contribute about twice as much resistance to roll as the springs.

Why is roll stiffness important?

A car will more roll stiffness will have less body roll and the suspension will load and react more quickly. That is good for two reasons:

1) the tires stay flatter on the road and create more grip
2) the car is more responsive and changes direction more quickly

Great... What does that mean for me?

Swaybars let you add roll stiffness efficiently and also adjust the front to rear handling balance of the car.

A very important rule of suspension tuning is that adding roll stiffness to one end reduces the grip.

The front and rear of the car each resist body roll. Given a constant cornering force, that resistance will be proportional to the roll stiffness on each end, so the end of the car with more roll stiffness will resist more roll.

Doing more to resist roll means that more weight is transferred and that tire does more work.

More weight transfer means less proportional grip.

So a car that understeers probably has too much front weight transfer, and not enough in the rear. Adding rear roll stiffness (or taking it away from the front), will increase weight transfer in the rear, and reduce rear grip relative to the front, making for a more neutral handling car. Another way to put it is that we are reducing weigh transfer to the outside front, keeping it flatter, lowering the load, and increasing grip. So even just putting on a rear swaybar will reduce the amount of roll at the front of the car.

So then I should buy a rear swaybar?

Yes, probably. To reduce understeer, you need more rear roll stiffness. But to improve front grip, you also need less body roll. Can you see the conflict here?

A big front swaybar drastically reduces roll, and keeps the tires in better contact with the road. That improves grip. It also increases the weight transfer on the front end. That reduces grip. The interesting thing is that our cars roll so much and gain so little camber under compression that a big front swaybar can, in some cases, reduce understeer but in my experience that only happens on an auto-x course for some reason.

What it comes down to is that the car really doesn't have even close to enough roll stiffness to keep the tires in good contact with the road. If you want to make the car handle well, it's most important to add more overall roll stiffness. While swaybars are most effective at doing this, you still can't just go out and buy giant swaybars meant for racing because we run into issues with damping and suspension independence. However, a modest upgrade is always a good thing, and 22mm front and rear bars are a very safe bet for almost any Subaru (new cars with different rear geometry are their own case and an off-road oriented car will not want much swaybar).

In some auto-x classes, only a front swaybar is allowed. If you're in this situation, get a massive front bar from addco or strano. Otherwise, it's ideal to add roll stiffness to both the front and rear ends of the car.

How big is too big?

Well, that depends on the intended use, the tires, and the rest of the suspension.

In theory you want the bars to be as small as possible to maintain suspension independence and keep damping properties as consistent as possible. In reality, we are driving average sedans (and wagons), that are fairly tall and heavy and have less than ideal suspension designs. So, you need A LOT of swaybar to handle well on road. Honestly, more than is available for our cars. A good track setup for an impreza with sticky street tires generally involves about 500 lb/in springs and 27mm bars. With R-compounds more spring rate is required.

So, if you're looking for great on-road performance, bigger swaybars are very important, and for a Legacy, there isn't a readily available swaybar that I would consider too big. I have the 22mm front and rear adjustable whiteline bars and could not be happier.


One thing to keep in mind is that bigger swaybars add spring rate that the dampers have to deal with. So if you have 100k mile stock struts, I'd be wary of slapping on some big bars without at least throwing on a set of fresh KYBs.

Okay, well, I think I have a good start. I need to expand on the last few parts a little and update the next post for the newer Legacies.

[jamal]

Fitment:

We've all heard the term that Subarus are like lego and you can interchange many parts between models and years. This mostly holds true for swaybars but there are some exceptions:

Generation differences
In the front, all Legacy swaybars are the same from 90-04, with the only difference being turbo vs. non turbo. There are also two different bushing and mount types, but bars are the same.
The FRONT 05-09 swaybars are different and do not fit on other legacies (although they interchange with 08+ imprezas).
Rear swaybars for an 00-04 Legacy must be specific for that model.
Rear swaybars for an 05-09 Legacy must be specific for that model.
Front swaybars for an 05-09 Legacy must be specific for turbo/non-turbo, and do interchange with the narrow body 08 imprezas/wrx
Front swaybars for a '10+ must be for that model.
Rear swaybars for a '10 Legacy are the same as 08+ imprezas and foresters.

Turbo and non-turbo front bars are different
Because of the crossmember and exhaust differences, turbo and non-turbo bars do not interchange.

Impreza rear bars don't fit any Legacies
Our Legacies have a little bump that sticks out of the spare tire well and interferes with Impreza rear swaybars. So while a Legacy bar will fit perfectly on an Impreza, things don't work the other way around. This also probably applies to Forester swaybars.

The new wider-tracked WRX and STi front bars don't fit
The 02-07 WRX sedan has a wider track and therefore different control arms and lateral links. This means that the front swaybar has to be wider. WRX Wagon and non-turbo front bars DO fit on any 90-04 Legacy, following that you are not trying to mix turbo and non-turbo bars. Sti rear swaybars are also wider.

90-91 and 92-99 rear swaybars are different.
The 90-91 uses a droplink setup that goes into a hole in the rear trailing arm. 92-94 uses the C-links that are found on most newer Subarus. Swaybars might be interchangeable. More details of the differences can be found here:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=34005

Some legacies do not have rear swaybars
None of the 92-94 L models came with a rear swaybar. I don't think Brightons or some L models did either after 95. Adding one is a really good idea. To do so you need mounting brackets, lateral links, and endlinks. More details here:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=26464


Sizes

Okay finally we're here. Regardless of the car you have, there are different swaybars out there. Here's a list of sizes that came on different models of Subarus that will fit 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Legacies. All model years are North American, unless otherwise noted.
These may not all be correct and it would be great if people could confirm the stock sizes


Front, 1990-2004

Turbo
18mm 91-94 Legacy Turbo
19mm (ST2041066010) 02-03 Japanese S401
20mm (20410AC030) 02-07 Impreza WRX Wagon, 98-02 Japanese MT RSK and GTB
20mm Whiteline BSF18
21mm (20401AE010) 03-06 Baja Turbo, 98-02 Japanese AT RSK and GTB
22mm Whiteline BSF15, BSF18X, BSF20Z (adjustable)
24mm Whiteline BSF20X, BSF20XZ (adjustable)
27mm Whiteline BSF20XXZ (adjustable)

Non-turbo
18mm (20410AA030) 90-94 Legacy, 93-01 Impreza Base and L Sedans
19mm (20410AA050) 95-99 Legacy, 93-01 Impreza Wagon, Coupe, LS and RS Sedans, 98-02 Forester, 98-02 Japanese Non-turbo 2.0litre Legacy
20mm (20410AC020) 96-99 Outback/SUS 00-02 Legacy, 00 Outback
20mm Whiteline BSF14, BSF19
21mm (20401AE03A) 03-04 Legacy, 01-04 Outback, 03-06 Baja (non-turbo)
22mm Whiteline BSF19X, BSF19XZ (Adjustable)
25mm (20401XA00A) Tribeca



Rear

90-92 Droplink type
16mm Non Turbo Sedan
17mm Non Turbo Wagon
18mm Turbo Models
18mm Whiteline BSR17 NOTE: BSR17 swaybars are discontinued. To upgrade, swap to c-endlinks
20mm Whiteline BSR17X, BSR17XZ (Adjustable)

92-94 C-link type, 95-99 2nd Gen
15mm 95-99 All 2.2l models
16mm 92-94 LS Sedan, 92-94 LSi Sedan, 95-99 LSi and GT
17mm LS Wagon, LSi Wagon, Ti, GT, Mi
18mm 92-95 Turbo Models, 95-99 Outback and SUS
18mm Whiteline BSR19
20mm Whiteline BSR19X, BSR19XZ (adjustable)
22mm Whiteline BSR19XXZ
note: BSR19 is hard to come by these days and usually must be special ordered from australia. Also, I think they only make the 22mm adjustable bar

00-04 3rd Gen Type
14mm 00-02 All Models
16mm 03-04 All Models, 03-06 Non-Turbo Baja
17mm 04-06 Baja Turbo
20mm Whiteline BSR12XZ (adjustable)


Bushings, mounts, and endlinks

The bushings in the endlinks and on the swaybars are made of rubber and they flex. That reduces the effectiveness of the swaybar. Replacing them with urethane or spherical endlinks is generally a good idea and really improves responsiveness because the bushings and endlinks aren't flexing as much before the swaybar loads, and will cause the swaybar to load more quickly. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that urethane bushings need to be well greased or they will bind and pop and possible tear apart. Whiteline makes urethane bushings in most sizes. Spherical bearings will also wear and eventually start to make noise.

The rear swaybar mounts have been known to break with larger swaybars. Whiteline, Perrin, and Cobb all have stronger mounting brackets available. The cheapest replacement option for a 1st or 2nd gen legacy, however, are the 04-07 Impreza mounts, which are reinforced. They use a new bushing, and that Whiteline part number is W0406-[mm].

As far as endlinks go I'm partial to Kartboy and Whiteline but pretty much anything will work.

[chuckthefuk]

Sway-bar Diameter Conversion Chart:
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

Good for a rough estimation on strength %

-Chuck

[ScaryFatKidGT]

So by saying you need to "increase overall roll stiffness" to get more grip and not just better balance you mean stiffer springs/shocks correct?

[jamal]

springs and swaybars both increase roll stiffness. Swaybars are more effective at resisting roll than springs. So say you double the stiffness of your swaybar vs. doubling the stiffness of your springs. with the swaybars you will have less roll. The other thing is that lowering the car increases the leverage the body has over the suspension. So lowering a car while keeping all else the same will increase body roll given the same cornering force. So going with lower and stiffer springs may do nothing but make the car ride more harshly. That's why whiteline's new roll center kit is so popular among people who know a little about suspension geometry.

Struts have no effect on roll stiffness. Well, if they have a high gas pressure they sort of will but that's not really a factor. What a strut does is control the motion of the wheel and the speed at which the car sets in a corner.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

wait what? Doesn't lowering decrees body roll because its like a pendulum and your moving the car closer to the ground where the roll starts? That y suv's and stuf have so much body roll? also cuz of soft springs but yea

[ScaryFatKidGT]

so how do you make more grip versus just more roll stiffness? wider tires the only answer?

[jamal]

having more roll stiffness generally means more grip, because the tire contact patch stays flatter on the ground in a corner. Keeping the contact patch flat means the whole tread is working to make the car turn.

wait isn't that what I said in the first post?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

"A very important rule of suspension tuning is that adding roll stiffness to one end reduces the grip."

Reduces grip on the other end right???

"What it comes down to is that the car really doesn't have even close to enough roll stiffness to keep the tires in good contact with the road. If you want to make the car handle well, it's most important to add more overall roll stiffness. Just a big rear swaybar takes away rear grip, which will improve the balance, but it doesn't help with the severe lack of grip that exists in the front. Just a big front bar will help with the grip lost by the front due to body roll, but you end up with a car with a very front-biased roll stiffness."

These are confusing me. Isn't it known that are cars already have a pretty stiff front bar? So putting on a bigger rear bar balances handling and improves grip? Right?

[jamal]

If I make the rear really stiff, it will transfer more weight in a corner because it does more to resist roll. Because there is more weight on that outside rear tire, it will lose traction earlier. This also has the effect of reducing the weight transfer on the front end, which gives the front of the car more grip.

and yes, in simple terms, more rear bar will generally make the car more neutral and increase overall grip.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

ok i get it sorry

[RedEvilWgn]

Perhaps im not reading the chart right, but it doesn't seem to say which bars fit which specific legacies....I don't think one size fits all of them....but again its a late night at work and im damned tired.

[jamal]

from 90-04 the only fitment difference in the front is turbo vs non-turbo, and some cars have a different bushing.
05+ cars have a different front swaybar and things do not interchange.

in the rear from 90-99, the 90-92 legacies are different as is mentioned.
00-04 and 05+ are also different due to the multi-link suspension.

[RedEvilWgn]

Ahhh I see now, thanks for clearing that up! Like I said I was beyond tired after a shitty day at work, so yeah lol

Awesome thread btw, 1 million thumbs up!

[Legacy89]

Im about to upgrade my suspension on the BE.

Im looking at Whiteline BSF-14X front and BSR12XZ rear. Along with Koni or Tein struts and springs.
anything else i should add? i got a 30% off on all whiteline products out the year.

[mrpyb]

Impreza rear bars don't fit any Legacies
Our Legacies have a little bump that sticks out of the spare tire well and interferes with Impreza rear swaybars. So while a Legacy bar will fit perfectly on an Impreza, things don't work the other way around. This also probably applies to Forester swaybars.

any idea how hard it is to deal with this spare tire bump to fit a wrx sway? I've heard both ways on this fitment.

[prodriver1]

my 98' gt just got new KYB GR2's to go with the H&R sport springs and front whiteline tower bar, i want to upgrade the swaybars next before i start with the engine on this one. I'm thinking whiteline BSR19X 20mm rear and BSF19X 22mm front. this is for street driving and an occasional autoX or track day @ BIR, good idea?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

either the 20mm or 22mm rear you don't really need a front its 22mm stock use the money for endlinks all around

[prodriver1]

either the 20mm or 22mm rear you don't really need a front its 22mm stock use the money for endlinks all around
i wanted the front one due to a fair amount of roll in corners ( I thought it was 20). I do want a stiffer rear but not drift car stiff. and as far as end links go what brand do you recommend? does SPT make any for the leg? or are they the same legacy or impreza.

[jamal]

I'm very happy with my whiteline 22mm adjusable bars and kartboy endlinks. I have the front bar set soft and the rear set full stiff.

[patrack92314]

hey where can u get the addco sway bars?

[TGX4776]

Are the whiteline end links model specific?

[Soul Shinobi]

Are the whiteline end links model specific?
Bump for endlink fitment. How many kinds are there for what cars? I know there aren't many differences, just want to be sure.

[TGX4776]

I am not sure either....... We need an endlink section for this! :grin:

I want to find out what kind i need for a BD

[jantzen8895]

my 98' gt just got new KYB GR2's to go with the H&R sport springs and front whiteline tower bar, i want to upgrade the swaybars next before i start with the engine on this one. I'm thinking whiteline BSR19X 20mm rear and BSF19X 22mm front. this is for street driving and an occasional autoX or track day @ BIR, good idea?


Nice. We have the same car and i'm going to be getting h&r springs soon. I think i'm gonna let the stock struts wear out before new ones. I guess i could put on a wagon rear sway bar or maybe get an adjustable one. I'd like to do strut bars too but they're so damn expensive. What else could i do cuz i'd love to fly around some corners without that stock body roll. I also have wide wheels that handle way better than my stockers

[prodriver1]

my 98' gt just got new KYB GR2's to go with the H&R sport springs and front whiteline tower bar, i want to upgrade the swaybars next before i start with the engine on this one. I'm thinking whiteline BSR19X 20mm rear and BSF19X 22mm front. this is for street driving and an occasional autoX or track day @ BIR, good idea?


Nice. We have the same car and i'm going to be getting h&r springs soon. I think i'm gonna let the stock struts wear out before new ones. I guess i could put on a wagon rear sway bar or maybe get an adjustable one. I'd like to do strut bars too but they're so damn expensive. What else could i do cuz i'd love to fly around some corners without that stock body roll. I also have wide wheels that handle way better than my stockers
ya I have 215/50/zr16's on the stock snowflakes and I love it. the KYB's arent doing it for me, they feel like stock and ive had them for about 3500 miles and they are wearing out already. I want to get dampers for the wagon on my sedan due to the rear dampers being stronger than the sedan's. the HR's were only like $250 but swaybars alone would be much more effective than the springs. even with the springs and dampers the car still rolls more than my buddies stock mini cooper S. also I might be getting a new car soon and will be parting out the GT so if you want anything (theirs a good amount of aftermarket stuff) let me know and I'll pm you when the time comes.

[04Wagoon]

even with the springs and dampers the car still rolls more than my buddies stock mini cooper S. also I might be getting a new car soon and will be parting out the GT so if you want anything (theirs a good amount of aftermarket stuff) let me know and I'll pm you when the time comes.



You cant really compare your car's handling and body roll to a cooper s.... its a world of difference.

[prodriver1]

You cant really compare your car's handling and body roll to a cooper s.... its a world of difference.


thats my point though... I want mini stiffness and I didnt get it with the parts I have.

[Soul Shinobi]

Don't forget chassis bracing and stiffness, as well as tire sidewall height and bushing wear can play bigs roles too.

[prodriver1]

Don't forget chassis bracing and stiffness, as well as tire sidewall height and bushing wear can play bigs roles too.
thought about the STi "pink" braces but I dont know how well they fit on legacys if at all. and I'm getting a set of poly bushings (full set from energy suspension for around $350) the tyre are taken care of already 215/50/16s with AA traction and super hard sidewalls.

[Soul Shinobi]

Strut braces are good to start. The second gen Legacy will take 93-01 braces in the front and 02-05 braces in the rear. The under side H braces only fit turbo cars due to exhaust routing. We don't have the hardpoints for fender braces, but I might weld some in. Also, locking down the rear subframe can help with a nervous rear end. Swaybars along with endlinks and bracket bushings should take care of a lot of roll, and paired with good springs and struts roll shouldn't be an issue. Lowering the center of gravity could help too though.

[prodriver1]

Strut braces are good to start. The second gen Legacy will take 93-01 braces in the front and 02-05 braces in the rear. The under side H braces only fit turbo cars due to exhaust routing. We don't have the hardpoints for fender braces, but I might weld some in. Also, locking down the rear subframe can help with a nervous rear end. Swaybars along with endlinks and bracket bushings should take care of a lot of roll, and paired with good springs and struts roll shouldn't be an issue. Lowering the center of gravity could help too though.
sweet you know alot about the parts I want. so the subframe, should I weld it to the chassis or what do you mean by locking it down? sway bars are my next avenue of attack, I'm thinking a 27mm+ adjust-ability in the rear and solid endlinks are sitting on my worktable in the garage :smile: I already have HR springs and I'm going a bit stronger than the KYB GR-2 shocks I have to an adjustable set. I also want to fux with the steering rack and make it a bit quicker but I need to do a bit more research on that front.

[StatGSR]

^ im pretty sure he is talking about something like this bud...

http://www.fastwrx.com/kaboboresulo.html

[Soul Shinobi]

Yeah, subframe lock-down bolts. My subframe is actually so misaligned I'm probably going to weld it to the chassis on my car though, it's too rusty to mess with.

You can't make the steering quicker without swapping the rack or getting really custom, but you can improve the response and feel with polyurethane steering rack bushings, anti-lift kit, and roll center adjustment kit.

[prodriver1]

^ im pretty sure he is talking about something like this bud...

http://www.fastwrx.com/kaboboresulo.html
oh sweet. so there's no bushings? will that lower the car?

[prodriver1]

I'm getting the bushings and a new rack (stock) but an anti-lift kit is a swell ider I'll look it up. getting a 99' leg outback with a 5spd today and I'm going to swap it in the GT and make the outback a auto for the miss and kids. now I can finally do some major work on the GT without worrying about being car-less :smt023

[jamal]

how did all this crap end up in the swaybar thread?

[prodriver1]

its related...sort of :oops:

[dougall42]

Is there an obvious upgrade to the BH LGT rear swaybar? BH Outback for instance?

[Soul Shinobi]

The rear suspension design is different (multi-link now instead of McPherson strut), they all come with 14mm bars from the factory if my service manual is to be believed.

[dougall42]

Thanks, 14mm dia explains why I need need kevlar elbow pads in the corners.
I thought my 05 LGT was bad with the stock 16mm dia. I upgraded that to Perrin 25mm rear and 22mm front.
The 05 bar won't fit the BH will it?

[Soul Shinobi]

I honestly don't know that, and can't use my service manuals to speculate. Doing a little research, the track width of the cars is different so I'm thinking no, but that's not a definite no; the rear suspension could still be near damn the same.

[dougall42]

I guess I'll crawl under next w'end and find out the hard way.

Thanks,

[Soul Shinobi]

Grab your tape measurer and report back. :smt023

[tony_s14]

thanks for the info

[jamal]

I honestly don't know that, and can't use my service manuals to speculate. Doing a little research, the track width of the cars is different so I'm thinking no, but that's not a definite no; the rear suspension could still be near damn the same.

it is damn near the same and I imagine a lot of parts will interchange. I'll have a 3rd gen in the shop this week so I'll take a look.

[blackstar]

I've seen numerous threads posted before about swaybar FAQ's, and I know a few guys out there have this set up on N/A and turbo cars, what I would like to know is, when I install my aluminum control arms JDM style - giving it a slightly wider track is it enough to be concerned about - like install a spacer and call it good / don't worry about it. Or if I were to buy something, should I go with something other then say a replacement Whiteline -# BSF 14 or # BSF 19 or a Rallitek bar. Just looking for any ideas / pictures of different set-ups.

Thanks

[csweston]

One thing to note is that on the rear mounting braces easily break after adding a larger RSB and may go unnoticed. This happened to mine, heres a pic of what im talking about
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/05/58fd5a89-1.jpg

This on a 97 OB. I replaced it with the white-line braces

[jamal]

yep. the low budget option is 04-07 impreza brackets which I've been using for a few years with a 22mm bar set to full stiff and no issues:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/ (http://jamalb.net/gallery/d/4579-2/evo+x+pics+003.jpg)

[csweston]

Good to know that works too! I would have gone that route had I known it at the time. What i have now is pretty overkill.

[Huffer]

Just a wee bump for some front swaybar info, specifically a DIY on installing and then some Tribeca FSB part #'s:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5756&p=255971#p255971 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5756&p=255971#p255971)

[98legwag]

I can't seem to find this anywhere so I thought this is the best place to ask. Is the front sway bar the same on a 2nd gen LGT and Outback?

[Soul Shinobi]

I THINK so, but someone else might want to chime in on that.

[prodriver1]

^yep^

[prodriver1]

One thing to note is that on the rear mounting braces easily break after adding a larger RSB and may go unnoticed. This happened to mine, heres a pic of what im talking about
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/05/58fd5a89-1.jpg

This on a 97 OB. I replaced it with the white-line braces
Soooo so true! I went through 2 sets B4 I had the 3rd set "upgraded" I had them welded in the spots that kept braking AND upgraded the bolts that hold the brackets on, ya thats rite! I went into the frame and put on new and hefty 12mm nuts and bolts. there is a little black rubber stopper close to the rear bolt you can use to hold a nut in a wrench (very fucking carfully :smt013 ) and you just try and line it up without knocking the nut out of your control and loose it in the frame. then I had the brackets welded onto the frame and fortified like a mutha bitch! now the 27mm rear bar is causing the car to over-steer like crazy :smt023 that plus new KYB GR-2's and 27" mud tyres its like a Tiff test :grin:

[RobE30]

So, who has a suggestion for a rsw size (or pairing of bars) for a car that is street driven no tracking in the foreseeable future. It'll be coupled to freshened up stock suspension (stock springs w kybs) and new bushings etc

[jamal]

options are pretty limited for your car. whiteline 20mm adjustable is the way to go.

[RandyMarsh303]

So I have a 98 BD and I am wondering if this front bar, endlinks, and braces will fit my car. Lots of info on rear sway bars but I did not read much about fronts. Will it all fit? Just the bar? etc etc etc....

LINK>>>>http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/pts/3353526987.html

Just in Case link does not work here it is copied over...

I have a Front Sway Bar for all 1993-01 Imprezas and Outbacks. It is an aftermarket sway bar made by ARC and measures 24mm. It is a huge upgrade over stock. Will Include Aftermarket End links as well.

I also will include Fender Braces. This will stiffen up the front end and improve handling and performance.

These pieces all came off of a Front Clip Imported from Japan.

[Soul Shinobi]

That bar I'm not sure of (useless answer, sorry) but the endlinks will and the fender braces won't, Legacy's don't have the holes where the Imprezas do for the fender brackets.

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok so after re-reading I see that the front bar is supposed to fit from this chassis impreza but this is speaking about the stock 18mm. Does the fact that this is a 24mm bar make a difference.

Has anyone ever modified the legacy chassis to accept these impreza braces. Or the modified the braces to fit? I do know about the DIY brace that is on the forum but asking about this brace specifically.

[Soul Shinobi]

So long as the bar comes with bushings it should be alright. Actually that's a lie, there are two different kinds of mounting brackets/bushings, which no one really mentions. I think they differ by engine, 2.5L cars have beefier ones with a couple ribs in them, 2.2L cars have flatter ones. I might be wrong on that.

The place where those fender braces go is so easy to work on when they fender's off that if anyone's going to so something custom they just weld in a beefier brace.

[RandyMarsh303]

is there anyway you can find me a photo of these differences im kinda confused as to what your speaking about. When you say mounting brackets are you referring to the endlinks. Maybe this is just flying over my head some how haha

He lives a ways away so I dont want to travel to get there and find out it doesnt fit. He said he would take pictures of whatever i needed to check the fit

also to clarify my BD gt has a 2.5

[Soul Shinobi]

Yeah, found a pic.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/10/turp_0812_33_zsubaru_wrx_sti_buyers_guid-1.jpg

See the two types of bushing here (which need matching brackets), in the background the outside of the bushing is flat (in this pic they alread have a bracket on them, ignore the grease fitting with the little red cap poking out of the top of the bracket, this is uncommon), in the foreground the bushings have two finger sized grooves (no bracket pictured). You should be able to see it on your own car without taking anything apart, and have him take a picture of the bushings.

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok thanks for the quick responses. I am going to text him and then check my vehicle and I will report back soon.

Said he would do the bar, aftermarket endlinks, brackets, and a paranoid grounding kit for 100 bucks. I always try to take advantage of the deals :smt023

[Soul Shinobi]

Sounds good, hope it's what you're looking for!

[Soul Shinobi]

You can buy aftermarket bushings specific to your car in different sizes, so don't let that stop you.

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok your right I'm sorry I just skimmed that opening post to answer your question and missed the word rear when it said rear impreza bars don't fit legacys. My question is if you could figure it out yourself why did you ask in the first place?

Because it is JDM and 24mm so I was unsure. The REAL QUESTION is why would you bother answering a question when you had no idea what you were talking about. No reason to be rude just to cover up your own F-up of not reading. I always search multiple forums first before posting, we are all friends here and I appreciate any help I get even if its wrong sometimes..... So next time just admit you didn't read and don't try to make me look like the idiot. just sayin.....

[teeceRS]

So i skimmed the thread and didn't find my answer. I'm a bit confused and a few of you are showing proof that you know this topic really well. So what I'm curious is, IS there a rear sway bar upgrade option for the BH wagons at all. I didn't see anything on the 00+ Legacy Wagon rear sway bar, not even a stock size. I did see a note saying "Impreza and 00+ Legacy bars do not fit." Those bars do not fit what or where?

Thanks guys.

[86bratman]

They don't fit the first and second gen legacy, I'm sure there are options for you to upgrade your rear though. I've never owned one myself so no help in that respect.

[teeceRS]

ok thanks, and i'm also curious about that bump that is said to be on the spare tire well that restricts the Impreza bar. Can it just be banged in, to be out of the way?

[86bratman]

That's another gen 1/2 thing, but it can be cut off for an impreza bar to fit, or use some of the various extended mount brackets that are on the market for the imprezas

[teeceRS]

I was wondering about extensions. Well you've answered my questions and I now have a very clear idea on what to do in the future. I appreciate it!

[Sambo]

I dont know if you talked about this but adjustable sway bars. whats the purpose of those. Im picking some up from another sli-er but im not really sure about adjusting and what it will all do.

[amm203]

Hey all I've been using this site along with other Subaru sites to help in upgrading the suspension on my '03 Subaru Legacy SE. I recently did the KYB-GR2s and H&R lowering springs and have been smitten with the results (especially compared to 100K old springs and struts). With all that being said my next upgrade is looking to be the RSB. After reading the countless sway bar threads I'm thoroughly confused. A couple threads have hinted that there is a revision to the RSB between the 02 and 03 Legacies. When I look on the subaruparts.com site there are in-fact two different part #s for the RSBs.

2002 Legacy RSB: 20451AE06B
2003 Legacy RSB: 20451AE08B

I know Whiteline (BSR12XZ) is a popular choice but I'm nervous about fitment for a 200$ purchase.

TLDR: Does anyone here have an '03 Legacy (Not '02,'01,'00) and have a RSB upgrade? If so what did you use for the RSB and endlinks? I've been looking to simply do MOOG endlink upgrades (K80426) considering how much beefier they look compared to stock along with a RSB upgrade. I won't be doing any AutoX - I just want a fun driving vehicle for the backroads of Western, PA (lots of fun curvy ones out this way, too!)

Also, thank you to everyone for the countless threads and information - they have been a big help in modifying Val!

[rkrenicki]

2002 Legacy RSB: 20451AE06B
2003 Legacy RSB: 20451AE08B

I know Whiteline (BSR12XZ) is a popular choice but I'm nervous about fitment for a 200$ purchase.

TLDR: Does anyone here have an '03 Legacy (Not '02,'01,'00) and have a RSB upgrade? If so what did you use for the RSB and endlinks?

The 2003-04 legacy has a slightly larger sway bar than the 2000-02. That is why there is a different part number. I think it only increased by 1mm during that change.

I have a 2004 Outback, and the BSR12XZ worked perfectly for me. I also used the Moog endlinks that you listed as well.

[Spennybrah]

Do you think your BSR12XZ would fit on a 03 L wagon?? Have been searching for sway bars for a little while and the chart at the beginning of the thread was some what confusing. Since you having an outback do you think there would be any difference between the two cars with reduced body roll. Would I still be able to use the moog endlinks that were listed? Reason why I ask is because I've heard there is quite a difference in suspension with an outback vs. an L. Soon to be putting on H&R lowering springs as well.

[Matty2Hotty]

I know it states 00-04 rear is specific to only the legacy but has anyone even attempted the 03/04ish Impreza rear sway, looking at pictures they have about the same bumps and curves from viewing a few pictures....

[rkrenicki]

I went and cleaned up/updated the original post for the front swaybars. Sorted them by size and what models they came on, and added the subaru part number for each (except the 1st gen turbo bar.. I cant seem to find the part number for it). I will do the same to rear when I get a moment to do the research.

[Sub-Goon]

Im starting to look into this upgrade for my BE, but the Post 2 info doesnt line up right.
I have a 2000 BE Outback Limited(production date 09/99), with 19mm Front SB and 14mm Rear SB. Post 2 says I should have a 20mm Front and there is nothing listed for the Rear. So at least it looks like I can get a 2003-2004 Front 21mm from a wrecker as a budget upgrade.
There is no mention of differences between Sedan and Wagon swaybars, but yet on other manufacturers, often times a wagon will have larger bars than the sedan or larger bars on say an S10 Blazer vs S10 pickup.
The other question is, will a 00-04 wagon RSB fit on a 00-04 sedan? Vice Versa?

I see rkrenicki's 2004 BEE Outback/RS30 is running 19mm(-2mm stock) FSB & 20mm(+4mm stock) RSB, which means that I could grab the stock swaybars off a 2004 Outback Sedan to get 21mm FSB and 16mm RSB. That would net me a 2mm upgrade front(49% increase) & rear(71% increase), for very little money.

[rkrenicki]

Sedans and Wagons share the same shape Swaybars on Legacies/Outbacks. You may have a thicker bar on one chassis, like is noted for the 1st gen above, but they are physically interchangeable.

As for the rears, they all have them (except the Brighton, and some years of L), but I havent taken the time to document which models have what size beyond what was already done in this post which ended at 2nd gen.

EDIT: So, I took the time this morning, and I have updated the original post with 2nd and 3rd gen RSBs

[Sub-Goon]

Sedans and Wagons share the same shape Swaybars on Legacies/Outbacks. You may have a thicker bar on one chassis, like is noted for the 1st gen above, but they are physically interchangeable.

As for the rears, they all have them (except the Brighton, and some years of L), but I havent taken the time to document which models have what size beyond what was already done in this post which ended at 2nd gen.

EDIT: So, I took the time this morning, and I have updated the original post with 2nd and 3rd gen RSBs

Thank you, again!