Time to change my brakes?

[d1giPhux]

99 Subaru Legacy GT

So for a while.. i was getting a bit of a squeal noise.. but.. not the type you usually get when your pads are really worn down. Just minor squeaking whenever i didnt brake hard.

Now, when i brake slowly.. it seems like the abs kicks in and i feel almost a sort of 'grinding' feeling. I took the wheels off and checked out the brakes. The backs seems to have quite a bit on them, and the fronts seem like they SHOULD have enough.

I'm currently running axxis ultimates in the front and rear.

I'm wondering.. how much 'pad' should there be left when you go to change your brakes. Any idea why the abs might seem to kick in randomly at slow speed stopping?

Also.. the brake pedal does feel a bit 'softer'.. i have to push down on it a bit harder then normal it seems like.

front pads:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/front_pads-1.jpg

rear pads:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/rear_pads-1.jpg

So.. looks like the pads are okay?


Any info would be great. Thanks!

[nipper]

YOu have a frozen brake caliper. The caliper no longer is sliding on the pins. You need to remove the caliper and clean the pins, the hole in the caliper for the pins, and lubricate said pins. I would also replace the pads as they most likely have not worn evenly.

I literally just went through the same thing last week.


nipper

[d1giPhux]

Good point.. thank you. How can i go about finding out which caliper is dragging? And when you say 'pins'.. what do you mean? I also just took the car out for a drive.. and notice while im turning slightly right in a circle.. i can hear a dragging noise.. so i'm guessing your correct on the caliper dragging.. as also when i back down my driveway.. sounds like they are locked up for a few seconds and such.


How come it only seems to do it at slow speeds however?

Why does the brake pedal feel softer than normal?

I think I will pull the pins out this afternoon and try that.. any quick steps you could give me on doing that? Thanks!

[2.5GT]

Check your brake fluid? leaks? and check your ABS sensor/wires?

and your pads are fine.

[nipper]

Well if you know how to change your pads you know how to check your calipers. They should easily move and swing on the top pin, and be easily removable. The sleeve the bolt goes through should move with some minor resistance as it is in rubber. Sometimes the sleeve just needs to be exercised to move. Start with the rears as they are oft neglected since they wear out slower then the fronts.

Sometimes you can tell which one is siezed by looking at the brake rotors (thats how I found mine).

[d1giPhux]

All rotors are fine (i dont see any visible marks or wear).. and yes.. that was a stupid question about the pin.. i was just making sure you meant the ones that go through the caliper. I have some of that brake grease in the small little packets.. thats what i should be using correct? I'm going to go clean out the holes in the caliper and re-lube them all.. hopefully that will help.

Also.. where are the ABS wires located? Anyone with a pic? Thanks.

[nipper]

If you have no ABS light, your fine.

I had my abs going off with the frozen caliper which makes sense. Since the hyd pressure for 4 brakes are woking on three brakes, of course the ABS will be nervous. Fix the frozen caliper and the ABS will relax.

Yes use the grease.

I had to roll some sandpaper up in a roll to clean the holes inside the caliper along with some PB Blaster.

nipper

[d1giPhux]

What type of stuff gets actually stuck in the holes...debree and shit, or corrosion itself? cleaned out the back.. didnt go that far with it.. how easily should the caliper slide?

[rougeben83]

What type of stuff gets actually stuck in the holes...debree and shit, or corrosion itself? cleaned out the back.. didnt go that far with it.. how easily should the caliper slide?

it should be smooth, no binding. if you're ABS is kicking in, odds are its one of the front calipers since thats what does most of the braking.

[d1giPhux]

So i'm working on the fronts now (been taking my time all day).. does this stuff look correct?:

1. This is how they came out (i removed both bolts):

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/front_pad1-1.jpg



2. Thickness of the current pads (should i change em.. if i already have the new ones laying around maybe? or use these for longer?):

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/front_pad2-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/front_pad3-1.jpg



3.

Bit of scarring on the rotor from the current pads on the right side:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/front_pad4-1.jpg

Also.. what pins should i clean on this? Bit confused.. I don't remember having to pull the whole top part out when i had done this before.. i'm pretty sure i just swung the caliper around.. although.. i cant remember as someone was helping me out showing me stuff.

[nipper]

Man they look rusty.

If they are flat and wearing evenly use them. Wasnt there any anti-squeel plates on them?

[d1giPhux]

No, the last time i did this.. the guy who was helping me ditched em and said i didn't need them. I asked him repeatedly about this.. but it never caused me any problems (so far).

So for the fronts... should i be cleaning pins? If so.. where are they :lol: ?

[nipper]

*shakes head*

You should have them, that bit of noise your hearing may be because you dont have them.

The pin is what the caliper is spinning on, and the sleeve is where the bolt came out of.

nipper

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. you lost me there.


The pin is what the caliper is spinning on, and the sleeve is where the bolt came out of.

I dont see any pin so far? The top part i took off.. with the piston.. that was attached to another piece with 2 screws. I took those off. The other piece is still attached to the car. Which is which.. and where is the 'pin' i need to clean on these front ones?

Also the part with the piston (caliper), was a real pain to pull off the base piece.. and the brakes stuck with the base piece and the clips like in the picture.

If you can just MS paint some colored circles perhaps? :lol: :oops:

edit: wow i feel like a moron.. is pin #3 & 8?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/pinpng-1.jpg

[d1giPhux]

So i pulled #3 out.. #8 seems to be pretty stuck.. and tips on getting it out? I need to get more grease from the store.. hmm.

[nipper]

Were all not photoshop pros.

I am nto sure what you are saying right now. The hinge point for the caliper is the "pin". The caliper should easily slide off that pin. if it doesnt that is one of the sticking points.

You did remove the brake master cylider cap when you pushed back the caliper to make life easier for you?


http://www.expertvillage.com/video/8729 ... aliper.htm (http://www.expertvillage.com/video/87297_replace-brakepads-remove-caliper.htm)

See how easy the caliper slides off, thats how your should be. That pin it slides off of is the "pin" that needs to be cleaned and greased. Also the sleeve where the bolt goes thgrough slides and needs to move freely (with some force).

[d1giPhux]

So yeah.. i'm guessing #3 and #8 are the pins then right? Yup.. one of them is def stuck.. unfortunately.. i dont have a rubbed mallet or anything either. :smt013


Have any tips?

Thanks for all the help by the way.. guess this should be turned into a DIY guide after.. haha.


edit: Here is a pic of the top pin (which came out easy).. and the bottom pin (which is still stuck). Next I will be pulling these out, cleaning them off, and re-lubing them with grease.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/pin1-1.jpg

[nipper]

Bets you can do is heat, some sort of penetraiting oil, and force.

If it is really bad the bracket the pins slide into will hev to be replaced.


nipper

[d1giPhux]

So i got them out. Used some PB blaster on the really stuck one.. screwdriver, and a hammer. Gonna have to really clean the rotor down tomorrow with some brake cleaner.

The other side bottom one was also sort of stuck too.. so i just hit it with the screwdriver and hammer. Right now they are soaking in PB blaster.. and tomorrow I will clean them off.

Here is a pic of the top pin and bottom pin side by side (bottom one has the little rubber piece on the end):

The stuck one is the one with all the crap on it..

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/pin2-1.jpg

[nipper]

Good.

If you cant clean them up you can get replacements for them.


nipper

[d1giPhux]

I'm gonna have to get a new boot for one of them.. i ripped it. Hopefully it wont be expensive from subaru. Also.. any good tips on cleaning out the holes if I don't want to take the whole caliper mount off? I kinda wanna stay away from spraying PB blaster all over the rotor and stuff too.. it makes a mess.. and I will have to clean it with massive amounts of brake cleaner.

[decke48]

i use those battery termanal cleaner brushes and you stick the end in and twist it. its a tight squees but doesnt the job. it ruines it as a battery termanal brush though. i see those scraps in the rotors. those might be the cause of the squeal expecally if your using semi-metallic pads

[d1giPhux]

I think the axxis ultimates (now called ULT) are kevlar / ceramic? Good call on the brush.. I will try that out today. Would be cool if i could find a bit of a smaller one somewhere. I guess i should use some compressed air afterwards or something to blow all the crap out of the holes.

[rougeben83]

the ultimates are formulated as an aggressive street pad to begin with, part of the reason they bite so well on the first dip of the pedal. That also means you'll get a bit more rotor wear than even say the hawk HPS'. Also part of why they dust so stinkin' much.

[d1giPhux]

Yeah.. they do dust a ton. Haha.. gotta clean the rims constantly.. but they are sick brakes. All the rotors on my car are brand new.. I'm still waiting on a stupid rubber boot to get this done.. *sigh*.. no one had the caliper kits in stock!

[d1giPhux]

So i finally finished doing this. I think its MUCH better. Not sure if its 100% fixed or not.. thought i mighta felt the ABS going off at a really slow stop.. but.. i could have been imagining it.. as its only done it once.. and I cant get it to do it anymore. Either way.. i learned a lot from this!

One thing i was wondering is.. once everything is put back together.. how do you make sure the rotors dont rub on the caliper / caliper base part at all? Mine arent.. but I was just wondering if there was any tricks to make SURE it wasnt.

[nipper]

Do you mean the backing plates?


nipper

[d1giPhux]

Upon further inspection.. it seems to STILL be doing it. Not as frequently however.

The pins were sliding freely when I put everything back together. Like i said in the OP, or one of the other posts (i thought).. there also appears to be a weird grinding type noise when the wheel is turned about 1/4 turn to the right. Only seems to happen around that 1/4 turn point.. and also only when turning right.

Anyone wanna shoot me some more suggestions?

Nipper : In the manual its called the 'support' and can be seen as #9 in that picture from the manual i posted. I was just wondering how everything lines up proper when put back together so easily. Seems like it should be more complex to me :lol:

[Huffer]

there also appears to be a weird grinding type noise when the wheel is turned about 1/4 turn to the right. Only seems to happen around that 1/4 turn point.. and also only when turning right.


Wheel bearing.

[d1giPhux]

You think so? Damn.. i swear i just had the front done not long ago.. :smt013

Then again.. maybe it was the rears.. crap.. i cant remember.

So.. anymore suggestions what the brake problem may be? The caliper pins seem to be working fine after i took them out and cleaned them off and such.. but its still kicking the abs on at VERY slow speed stops. It doesn't do it when braking hard.. just very slow gradual stops it seems. Maybe they just need to be taken out again and cleaned more. *sigh*.

[Huffer]

ABS tone rings...

[d1giPhux]

What in the hell is that?

[Huffer]

It's what tells your ABS when to kick in. Your brake calipers don't activate the ABS on their own, they're a simple hydraulic system.

[d1giPhux]

Hmm.. so you think that might be the cause? Is there anyway to diagnose any of this? Also.. would the wheel bearing possibly set it off? It doesnt kick in very much.. at all.. but seems like almost when im turning / slow stopping it kicks in. I'm trying to reproduce the effect by slow stopping at diff turning angles and such.. but it seems to be really spontaneous.

[Huffer]

Disconnect your ABS fuse and see if the problem goes away.