Fuel Ionizer

[Wiscon_Mark]

Okay, PWT asked this question, but I didn't want to go off topic.

The Little thing you put on your gas line, that claims to further ionize your fuel, making combustion more efficient, and increases mileage.

The only problem with the outrageous claims in improvement of fuel economy, is that they're mathematically impossible.

Most internal combustion engines combust about 99% of the usable fuel that goes into the cylinders. Now this ionizer makes claims of improving fuel economy by 20% (+/-). It's impossible to combust 119% of the fuel being injected, as far as I know....

[sheepdog]

I'm no chemist, but the idea seems plausible, however as mark said, I doubt it can deliver on the claims it makes. I think that it might work, but that there isnt enough of a difference in the fuel to really notice a difference in your gas mileage.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'm no chemist, but the idea seems plausible, however as mark said, I doubt it can deliver on the claims it makes. I think that it might work, but that there isnt enough of a difference in the fuel to really notice a difference in your gas mileage.

yep. I'm not saying it doesn't work, period. It's just not effective enough to make any difference.

[gil_ong81]

such items are extrememly popular in Singapore cos of the high proice of gas.

some people swear by it, and some think it's a load.

my personal experience is with my mother Mitsu Lancer MIVEC (don't remember what uear). She had the fuel line cut and a "broquet" (www.broquet.com (http://www.broquet.com)) installed. used it for about 4 years. when it came time to sell the car, she had it taken off. the would barely idle with out it. seems like it does SOMETHING to the fuel. :?

[BAC5.2]

Combusting 99% of fuel, and increasing fuel economy by 20% are different things.

They aren't claiming that it burns MORE fuel that gets into the engine, they are claiming that it allows the fuel that gets into the engine to burn more efficiently.

Fuel efficiency, and fuel economy are two totally different things. Economy is distance per volume. Efficiency, is combustion efficiency. Neither of which is really related to the AMOUNT of fuel in which the engine burns in a cycle.

What is fuel economy? Consuming less fuel, right? But 99% of fuel going into a cylinder is ALWAYS being combusted. Less fuel is injected into the engine, but 99% of that fuel is still combusted.

Make more sense?

[Wiscon_Mark]

yes, I agree...

but how would this thing make less fuel go into the engine? (besides restricting it and leaning out the mixture and putting strain on the fuel pump) Its claiming a 20% increase in fuel economy, but its claiming that it does that by ionizing the fuel for a more complete burn...so 99.5% instead of 99%. You'd have to be burning a lot of fuel for that to make a 20% increase in fuel economy.

[sheepdog]

That thing looks just like a magnet or something over a line, I dont think it restricts fuel flow at all, from what i can see. What we really need is someone to buy one and try it, then we will really know

[Plays_with_Toys]

It is a magnet. It ionizes the fuel particles to pull them apart. It basically says that because the fuel ions are being fully combusted (because their entire surface area is exposed), as opposed to partial combustion (due to clusters sheilding a majority of the surface area, you get a better burn.

So who's got $20 burning in their pocket?

[BAC5.2]

Mark - I'm not saying it restricts flow. I was explaining fuel economy vs. fuel efficiency.

I would bet that they use a magnet, to pull particles of metal (which can be in underground tanks and which are stirred up as fuel is added to these tanks) "out" of the fuel. Essentially preventing a clogged fuel filter, and preventing clogged fuel injectors, thus increasing ionization because the injectors have no metal particulates clogging them (allowing the designed fuel to flow through the injector).

Think about it. There are several "swirl" areas before an injector. How is a magnet, let alone an earth magnet, be able to break down the fuel JUST enough to seperate clusters, but not so much as to actually seperate the fuel, AND THEN, have the fuel travel into the filter pot, and into the rails, where molecules are bouncing around against each other. How could this "ionize" the fuel? I doubt it could.

Unless they are creating a magnetic field around the fuel lines (the hard-lines), which MIGHT help prevent so molecular colision, and allow the fuel to travel with less effort. But even this would be countered by the fuel pressure regulator, right? Excess pressure is bled back to the tank, and the fuel pump is always churning at 100% duty cycle. So what benefit would that serve?

I'd raise call it snake oil, and I don't care enough to spend 20 bucks to see if it works. I could, of course be wrong, and if I am, I hope someone could give me a good enough reason to think this is true.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'd be more inclined to say that any difference it makes would be it unclogging the injectors of metal, but I doubt that's even noticeable.

Even if it did make cumbustion more efficient, the ECU probably wouldn't pick up on this very quickly (if at all), and you would run rich....

[BAC5.2]

Probably wouldn't run rich. Maybe lean if something was clogging the fuel system. If this magnet removes that clog, the car would probably get worse gas mileage (though it will be running "correctly" now).

Fueling is based on air flow. Air flows into an engine, the engine reads the amount of air, and sets injector pulse width accordingly. It compares air flow with volumetric efficiency, then calculates the amount of fuel needed to provide a "safe" air-fuel ratio (for OEM, most like to stick to the rich side of stoich. OEM Boosted cars like to stick even further to the rich side of stoich.). Then, when it knows how much fuel would be perfect, it consults the stored data of the size of the injector, factors in fuel pressure, and when it has all of that information, it will then apply electricity to the injector in pulses, to control how long it is open. Less air. Less fuel. Less power. More economy though.

Less fuel available, ECU will compensate and retard timing because something is wrong.

If your gas mileage gets REALLY good, and you seem to have little power, you can bet it's probably a fueling issue, and something is definately wrong.

[Wiscon_Mark]

If your gas mileage gets REALLY good, and you seem to have little power, you can bet it's probably a fueling issue, and something is definately wrong.

Yeah, like someone swapped a Justy engine in :lol:

More seriously, i see what you mean. I guess I'll feather the throttle a bit more now :)

[Reason]

I have 2 (1 for each car) I got them a few years back. I doubt it does anything, I never added up the numbers. If I had to buy another one I wouldn't just for the fact I'm not sure it does anything. If you want to experiment Mark I can send you the one off my CRX. Let me know if you are up for it to shed some light on the subject.

By the way, it says to place it as close to the engine bloack as possible (on the rubber fuel line) so its after the fuel filter.

[BAC5.2]

So then I would imagine it is to trap any metal particles before they get to the FPR and into the fuel rails (and ultimately the injectors).

How do you clean out the particle build up though? Disconnect the hose, and jump the fuel pump relay, and try to shoot it out?

Maybe that's why the mitsu drove like shit? Stuff that would have clogged the injectors (or not), was trapped, and when the magnet was removed it was free to clog the injectors?

It's entirely possible that the size of the particles that could bypass the fuel filter would easily be able to travel through a fuel injector without doing any damage. So collecting them would yield no benefit, other than creating a potential clog from either buildup over time, or from the dislodging of multiple metal particles at one time.

It'd be simple to find out, just find the filtering ability of the fuel filter (you can make a phone call and ask), and you could almost just compare. If it blocks particles up to 10 microns in diameter, it should be able to pass something that small without any issue, and it would either combust or it would go straight out the exhaust.

I'm sure this device has greater effect on older cars with far less sophisticated fuel injection systems.

I'd also guess that the "better ionization" buzz word is simply saying that "less shit in the fuel, so it must ionize better".

[gil_ong81]

the mitsu didn't use a magnet.

http://www.broquet.co.uk/

[Reason]

That seems to make sense that particles are gathering at the point of the hose. If so this products yields useless and future problem the fuel injectors. I'm going to have to check the fuel line to see if it is clogged.