My supercharger build: Update 7/5/2010 Emanage!

how much did that cost ya?

[anothernord]

Lightweight crank pulley (already had it) $70
Big ass Ford Lightning pulley ring - $60
Labor to make them one - $80

$210 total.

[anothernord]

Today I finished everything on the mechanical side of the new build.

I installed the slim radiator fans, which I bought from eBay. They aren't the best ones available, but I let the car sit outside in the 90+ degree temperatures with the A/C on, and the temperature gauge didn't move one bit. They definitely don't move as much air as the stockers, but they're adequate to cool off the car.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/IMG_2113-1.jpg

There isn't a belt that exists in the correct length in a 5-rib form, so I just did what everyone else has done, and slice off a 6-rib belt of the same length, and used it. I was a little wary of doing this, but its so easy, that I wouldn't even think twice about doing it again.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/IMG_2112-1.jpg

The tensioner is just my old pulley bolted into a slot in the bracket, so I can move it back and forth. However, I had to muscle the belt on the pulley enough that is plenty tight even without adjusting the pulley's position.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/IMG_2114-1.jpg

The Emanage should be coming by this weekend, so hopefully I'll be up and running by then. Until that time, I can just cruise around town and flick on the SC, scaring everyone in a 1/4 mile radius.

Edit: sorry the pictures are so crappy, I used a different camera since I couldn't find my Canon, and it sucks in low light.

[httrdd]

Nice design! Time to start marketing a setup?!

[anothernord]

Nice design! Time to start marketing a setup?!

That would be fun, but I work full time in the summer, and I'm a full-time engineering student the rest of the year, so there's just no time. I just try and put up a lot of information so people can design and build their own setups.

[Soul Shinobi]

Looks good. Making a shroud around the radiator fans so they pull air through the whole radiator can help a lot, so says my automotive class text book. Those fans aren't as big as stock so doing so may pose as a flow restriction at highway speed though. I'm speculating, of course.

[anothernord]

Looks good. Making a shroud around the radiator fans so they pull air through the whole radiator can help a lot, so says my automotive class text book. Those fans aren't as big as stock so doing so may pose as a flow restriction at highway speed though. I'm speculating, of course.

Right, the shroud idea is a good one. The fans are wired so that any time the ECU would normally have the fans activated, whether on low, or high speed mode, the slim fans will activate. This works perfectly, but the only downside is that the main fan can't kick into high mode; they just have one speed.

The way the stock fans work is that when certain conditions are met, (speed, coolant temp), certain relays kick on that change the fan's circuit from series to parallel. What I did is just connect the two 12V wires together so under any condition, the fans are still running because there's always a circuit open.

In the future, I may add a second pair of fans in the front of the A/C condenser to move more air. But for now, the car runs perfectly, with the only indication that something is different being the A/C doesn't blow quite as cold at idle.

[httrdd]

What is this a/c stuff you are talking about? :lol:

[anothernord]

Hey, it gets hot here in CO. Its been in the upper 90's the last 2 weeks.


It also gets like -20 in the winter. Crazy state.

[Sooprazn]

Hey, it gets hot here in CO. Its been in the upper 90's the last 2 weeks.


It also gets like -20 in the winter. Crazy state.


It also does the opposite, we can get 60~70 in the winter, and 30~40 in the summer.

[anothernord]

The Emanage is 50% installed; I'm using 25 pin D-sub connectors so it can be removed and the car returned to stock in a matter of moments.

Also, I've been venting the PCV and valve covers to atmosphere, and for some odd reason, the car runs perfect, and I get great gas mileage. :smt017 This is odd because that should mean that I have a giant vacuum leak. Oh well, I'll be booting the MAF and using a GM MAP sensor and an IAT sensor to run a speed-density tune, so it won't matter anyway!

Death to the MAF!

[anothernord]

Loong day of installing things, but I'm 90% done with the new setup.

I used D-sub connectors to allow the car to be returned to stock with a simple unplugging and plugging in of connectors. The power comes from a Molex computer connector.

Here's what "stock" mode looks like:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/IMG_0254-1.jpg

This giant mess is what the EMU looks like when its plugged in. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough wire to reach up into the glovebox; or anywhere for that matter. I'll probably have to buy some DB25 extension cables (the kind for old printers) so it can reach up into the glove box, where I want it.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/IMG_0260-1.jpg

Here's the engine bay, FMIC all hooked up and good to go. Notice I still have the MAF; the car runs surprisingly well with it still in there.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_0259-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_0257-1.jpg

All that's left to do now is wire in the SC clutch relay to the Emanage, set its activation points, and tune!

[Soul Shinobi]

Old printer cables on the cheap: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subde ... p_id=10210 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10210)

[Reason]

Oh boy, I want to see numbers!

[anothernord]

Oh boy, I want to see numbers!

In good time. I'm waiting for then next cheap dyno day at our local shop. I'm expecting around 180-200 WHP. Faster than a WRX, with zero lag and a flat torque curve.

I can't wait to give ricers heart attacks. :twisted: Especially when I get the 2-step launch control set up.

[Reason]

Build me a kit! lol

[d1giPhux]

If you end up making a fan shroud.. i found a cool DIY you may be able to use for ideas:

http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pon ... hroud.html (http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/FanShroud.html)

[httrdd]

Very nice. I need to get my build finished and you keep motivating me.

[impreza_GC8]

Good work. If you check this thread there's a guy that covered the fog holes with the same sort of material I was mentioning when we were talking about it earlier. There's a photo too, give it a shot!
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19028&p=213340#p213340 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19028&p=213340#p213340)
I've been driving my other car ('00 2.5RS) so the turbo wagon hasn't been getting much love at all. I need to get moving on that standalone EMS and FMIC so we can match .. . kinda.

[anothernord]

^^ That's exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks!

Are you going with a Megasquirt for the EMS?

[impreza_GC8]

Yes thats what I'm planning. Having a hard time scraping the money together. I'm a full time college student as well, might not be til October that I'll actually have it.

[derrick_]

as i've been projecting ideas for months and months, supercharging keeps coming up in my mind, and this has me all for it.

love the post :]

[TGX4776]

i want to do this soo badly and the price is oh so right. whats the final cost for the second setup?

what you need to do is find a used ej257 and put this setup on it. hopefully you can one day find one that you can afford i.e. free.

So much cooler than a turbo. :smt025

[anothernord]

Cost of new parts for the current setup:

$200 for the pulley
$160 for the FMIC
$60 for the slim fans
$400 for the Emanage

My lasted design challenge is to make the transition to boost smoother. For example, if I'm going up a hill in 5th gear in the mountains at 10,000 feet, I will push the gas pedal until it hit the 60% throttle that it takes for the SC to turn on, and all of the sudden I get full boost and a screaming blower. This is sort of cool in certain situations, but its kinda a pain on the highway. I am going to mess with recirculating the BPV, and installing a lighter spring in it.

I made a new pressure-side elbow using an intake piece thingy that I found on an 80's Dodge Turbo Caravan. I was able to shorten up the piping, and get rid of my old elbow, which leaks pretty bad.

The aluminum pipe on my old hot-side plate kept getting smashed by the clamp, and was leaking, so I used the little elbow thing from the 80's Turbo Dodge Caravan to make a new one.

Its just a 1/4 aluminum plate, with a 3.5" hole that I cut with a hole saw. Then I drilled and tapped holes for the elbow, and siliconed everything shut. In the process, I was able to port and polish the bottom of the plate, and reduce some of the piping length in the system.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_0406-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/08/IMG_0407-1.jpg

[httrdd]

Nice you can always find a way to make things easier and better and posting here takes most of the homework out of the build.

[Robbks]

My lasted design challenge is to make the transition to boost smoother. For example, if I'm going up a hill in 5th gear in the mountains at 10,000 feet, I will push the gas pedal until it hit the 60% throttle that it takes for the SC to turn on, and all of the sudden I get full boost and a screaming blower. This is sort of cool in certain situations, but its kinda a pain on the highway. I am going to mess with recirculating the BPV, and installing a lighter spring in it.


mate, for this piece, check out the Secondary Turbo's BPV from a JDM TT Legacy.
or any other large-bore aftermarket BOV.
in your situation i really think a duty-controlled wastegate on the intake would be a good setup.
you could then have the SC kick in at much lower throttle (30%), but bypass a lot of the air initially, then you can tune how much boost you want for the rest of the rev range
this would give you full control over the boost map and make for a much smoother car to drive.

using 30% throttle as the switch on point is very close to the factory ECU's threshold for switching between Closed Loop fuelling and open loop fuelling.

does the e-manage support Closed Loop boost Control? (my Haltech Interceptor does.)

[anothernord]

My lasted design challenge is to make the transition to boost smoother. For example, if I'm going up a hill in 5th gear in the mountains at 10,000 feet, I will push the gas pedal until it hit the 60% throttle that it takes for the SC to turn on, and all of the sudden I get full boost and a screaming blower. This is sort of cool in certain situations, but its kinda a pain on the highway. I am going to mess with recirculating the BPV, and installing a lighter spring in it.


mate, for this piece, check out the Secondary Turbo's BPV from a JDM TT Legacy.
or any other large-bore aftermarket BOV.
in your situation i really think a duty-controlled wastegate on the intake would be a good setup.
you could then have the SC kick in at much lower throttle (30%), but bypass a lot of the air initially, then you can tune how much boost you want for the rest of the rev range
this would give you full control over the boost map and make for a much smoother car to drive.

using 30% throttle as the switch on point is very close to the factory ECU's threshold for switching between Closed Loop fuelling and open loop fuelling.

does the e-manage support Closed Loop boost Control? (my Haltech Interceptor does.)

I think I'll try making a bypass, using an OEM throttle body with a servo that bypasses the restrictions of the SC and intercooler. Then, when the supercharger is activated, I'll have the servo shut the bypass. This will keep throttle response and power while N/A better than it is currently.

The emanage doesn't support closed loop control, unfortunately.

Today I relocated the Emanage from the tangled mess of the glovebox, to the center console DIN-lid pocket. Its much cleaner, and I don't have to worry about drunk passengers unplugging things. (It happened)

Any suggestions as to what I should use the little red button for?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/08/IMG_0416-1.jpg

I also installed and wired in a GM 2-bar MAP sensor. I'll hopefully use this to tune speed-density with.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/08/IMG_0408-1.jpg

[Sooprazn]

"Any suggestions as to what I should use the little red button for?"

Ejection seat.

For all the other seats.

[Soul Shinobi]

How about a butterfly valve to an exhaust cutout!

[anothernord]

Hmm, I like both of those suggestions...

But today I found out that a friend is selling his JC Sports turbo kit... I smell twin-charging...

[Soul Shinobi]

YOU'RE MAD.

[Grafton]

YOU'RE MAD.
in the best way possible! be careful with the tune though, I believe that matt monson on nasioc had a twin charged 2.2 but he kept killing pistons when he'd tinker with the tune

[anothernord]

YOU'RE MAD.
in the best way possible! be careful with the tune though, I believe that matt monson on nasioc had a twin charged 2.2 but he kept killing pistons when he'd tinker with the tune

I actually know Matt Monson in person. :razz:, but are you mistaking him for Doug (Reddevil)? I know that he had a twin-charged 2.2 as well, or maybe you're thinking of him.


As far as my twin-charge plans:

I'm going to go ahead and install the turbo kit that I'm picking up this weekend, and get it running just for fun using the TMIC. Then, I'll try plumbing the outlet of the turbo into the back of the SC, and use a MAF-less tune, which I am currently working on. It will take a while though; one data log has over 30,000 lines of data!

Basically, I'm finding out what the MAF's average voltages are for every possibly scenario; cruise, acceleration, WOT, idle, etc, then putting those values in the map that gets sent to the stock ECU, essentially sending "fake" MAF voltages to the ECU, using a GM 2-bar MAP sensor as a load reference. So far, its working pretty well! I got the car to idle without any MAF installed at all!

Classes begin tomorrow however, so progress will be more slow.

[httrdd]

Wow!!! What numbers are you going to try to make?

[anothernord]

The most I can without exploding things. Which will mainly be a matter of tuning, but I'd like to see around 200 WHP, or 260 at the crank.

[Grafton]

yeah it was reddevil, i remember now, if only he would've left his good tunes alone...

[anothernord]

Been having some fun with the Emanage; I'm almost done with the speed-density conversion! (AKA ditching the MAF)

Here's what my airflow map looks like. It still needs some more tweaking to match what the MAF really puts out, but I took out the MAF sensor, stuck a filter on the inlet of the SC, and drove around the block!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/08/emanagepng-1.jpg

I picked up some 565cc STi yellow injectors. Those will go in soon as well.

The turbo will be going in sometime within the next two weeks. Prediction? I will blow my engine. :lol:

[httrdd]

Lol! But you will have fun doing it! Nice program. I need to get into some software.

[Sooprazn]

Been having some fun with the Emanage; I'm almost done with the speed-density conversion! (AKA ditching the MAF)

Here's what my airflow map looks like. It still needs some more tweaking to match what the MAF really puts out, but I took out the MAF sensor, stuck a filter on the inlet of the SC, and drove around the block!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/08/emanagepng-1.jpg

I picked up some 565cc STi yellow injectors. Those will go in soon as well.

The turbo will be going in sometime within the next two weeks. Prediction? I will blow my engine. :lol:

Damnit! I want to see it before it blows up!

Or maybe I want to see it blow up. I don't know.

[anothernord]

^^ Whenever you're up in Fort Collins, let me know, and we can arrange the assplode session!


In other news, I got 30.32 MPG going to Denver and back yesterday.

[Soul Shinobi]

Wtf, I get 23.5 mpg pretty much no matter what, even on the tank I autocrossed on.

[anothernord]

Wtf, I get 23.5 mpg pretty much no matter what, even on the tank I autocrossed on.

That's exactly what I get in town, highway varies a lot though.

[robsontuning]

Love this build. I have decided to put both supercharger and turbo on the Legbeca :)

[anothernord]

Love this build. I have decided to put both supercharger and turbo on the Legbeca :)

Twin-charging!! :twisted:

[httrdd]

Love this build. I have decided to put both supercharger and turbo on the Legbeca :)

Seriously? You are going to have an H6 Supercharged Turbo LGT???!!?! That would be something to see! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[robsontuning]

Yeah supercharger for the low end and 35r for top. Also it will be RWD only and running on 17x12.5 rear wheels.

[rougeben83]

Yeah supercharger for the low end and 35r for top. Also it will be RWD only and running on 17x12.5 rear wheels.

any other person and I would just blow off that statement, but I know you're one of the few mad enough to actually try to do this!

[Soul Shinobi]

I will wait as long as it takes, I have to see it.

[impreza_GC8]

I'm jealous of your new fuel mileage. I'm not going to mess with a piggyback though, for $425 I can get a MegaSquirt, I'm saving my pennies and it will happen soon.

[anothernord]

I'm jealous of your new fuel mileage. I'm not going to mess with a piggyback though, for $425 I can get a MegaSquirt, I'm saving my pennies and it will happen soon.

From DIYAutoTune I'm guessing? You're lucking, since they have a plug-n-play for the EJ22t ECU. No love for the single plug 97' ECU, otherwise I'd have been all over it. :-(

[d1giPhux]

Hey.. i found something cool you might like for the M62 supercharger you are running. Its called 'Dial_UR_Boost' pulley system. Basically once you mount it to the supercharger snout.. lets you change pulley sizes easily. However.. with your setup i dont think it would work since your running a dual pulley system. But just thought it was kind of cool, and wondered if you found any other similar systems for the m62?

Why did you end up going with a dual pulley system like the one you have? Space constraints?

Here is an info link:

http://truck.hownd.com/product-798-sout ... dline.html (http://truck.hownd.com/product-798-south-florida-pulley-hq-dial-ur-boost-interchangeable-pulley-system-chevy-cobalt-ss-saturn-ion-redline.html)

Product page:

http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFP ... n_sale.htm (http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFPH/items_on_sale.htm)

[anothernord]

Hey.. i found something cool you might like for the M62 supercharger you are running. Its called 'Dial_UR_Boost' pulley system. Basically once you mount it to the supercharger snout.. lets you change pulley sizes easily. However.. with your setup i dont think it would work since your running a dual pulley system. But just thought it was kind of cool, and wondered if you found any other similar systems for the m62?

Why did you end up going with a dual pulley system like the one you have? Space constraints?

Here is an info link:

http://truck.hownd.com/product-798-sout ... dline.html (http://truck.hownd.com/product-798-south-florida-pulley-hq-dial-ur-boost-interchangeable-pulley-system-chevy-cobalt-ss-saturn-ion-redline.html)

Product page:

http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFP ... n_sale.htm (http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFPH/items_on_sale.htm)

I've always liked the idea of being able to switch pulleys easily, and those are pretty nifty. Unfortunately I don't think they have a model for my particular M62.

The dual pulley was made so that I could employ the electric-clutch SC pulley, as a way to maintain stock drivability. It works awesome, since it just freewheels when I don't want boost.

The only problem with this setup is that the SC makes a major restriction when I need more power than cruising, but not all the power the SC would make if it were to turn on, so there's kind of a "dead spot" so to speak. This could be fixed with a simple butterfly bypass valve that would allow the engine to breath more freely

[d1giPhux]

Oh no kidding.. didn't know where were different generation of M62 superchargers. Which is yours? How much did you end up paying for the final pulley you have now? Man.. id really like to do this to my car, but its my primary driver.. so probably not going to happen. BTW.. how loud is it driving under normal conditions?

[anothernord]

Oh no kidding.. didn't know where were different generation of M62 superchargers. Which is yours? How much did you end up paying for the final pulley you have now? Man.. id really like to do this to my car, but its my primary driver.. so probably not going to happen. BTW.. how loud is it driving under normal conditions?

There's not only different generations of M62's, there are completely different models. All M62's have the same-sized rotors and gears, and they flow the same amount of air. However, different manufacturers made different housings and styles of M62's. For example, the Mercedes C230 M62, which is what I have, has a totally different snout and casing than the GM M62, which was on a variety of Buick and Pontiacs.

My super-giant crank pulley was about $200 including all the parts and labor. I detailed its assemble a couple pages back.

Since the SC is just freewheeling anytime except 90% throttle, its basically silent. I have just about every possible drivetrain bushing and mount replaced to a more solid version (ie Group N), so my car is pretty loud anyway, but engine noise is basically stock.

[impreza_GC8]

I'm surprised they don't make one for your plug! I'm just gonna do the drop-in for an EJ22T since thats how the car is wired, even though the harness is merged, it should work.

[anothernord]

I'm surprised they don't make one for your plug! I'm just gonna do the drop-in for an EJ22T since thats how the car is wired, even though the harness is merged, it should work.

That's exactly what I was wondering. Its really the one Subaru ECU that they don't support. This is surprising since a lot of RS's are running around with the same plug.

[Sooprazn]

I would but I don't have any of your contact info ever since I PM'd you, only this e-mail/board


^^ Whenever you're up in Fort Collins, let me know, and we can arrange the assplode session!


In other news, I got 30.32 MPG going to Denver and back yesterday.

[anothernord]

I would but I don't have any of your contact info ever since I PM'd you, only this e-mail/board


^^ Whenever you're up in Fort Collins, let me know, and we can arrange the assplode session!


In other news, I got 30.32 MPG going to Denver and back yesterday.

Wow, I have a terrible memory; I totally thought I sent you my #. :lol:

Sending PM.

[anothernord]

STi yellow sidefeeds are in. The install went really smoothly; I just wiggled the old ones out, lubed up the O-rings on the STi injectors, and the popped right in.

I used the Emanage's injector scaling function, putting 280cc and 0.7 ms lag time, in the "Before" cells, and 520cc and 0.7 ms for "After". It started right up!

The only issues are that tip in at idle (quickly blipping the throtte) causes a stumble. The 02 reads full lean when this happens. Its not really bad enough to make the car un-drivable, but its a little annoying.

Another thing to note with larger injectors and the Emanage: If your ECU is sending a 100% duty cycle signal to the Emanage, the EMU will not be able to scale the duty cycle to the new injector, because it has nothing to reference. Instead, it will just dump tons of fuel indiscriminately.

How do we fix this? Well, we have to clamp the airflow voltage going to the ECU below whatever voltage causes the ECU to send the 100% IDC signal out. Then we adjust the I/J map, increasing the output duty cycle of the larger injectors to keep whatever AFR is needed. I chose to clamp my MAF output voltage at 4.2 volts. this is pretty safe, and keeps the output IDC of the ECU around 80%. That allows a little wiggle room in case the ECU wants to change fuel trims.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/09/IMG_0431-1.jpg

[Robbks]

Yellow side feeds are 440cc. when rated for JDM and AUDM market
Check with your local dealer as to what the Greddy will be configured for.
this may be part of your your tip-in issue.
i.e it's scaling for larger injectors than are fitted.

try changing the value to 440cc and see what happens.

my Haltech interceptor does not have the injector scaling function, so my legacy still uses a tip-in adjustment for the smaller injectors.
however with the better flowing engine that I have, this is a good thing as it does need the larger tip-in values to prevent the leaning out issue.
with the stock injectors fitted the car would run very lean on tip-in and stutter, both at idle and while driving

[anothernord]

Yellow side feeds are 440cc. when rated for JDM and AUDM market
Check with your local dealer as to what the Greddy will be configured for.
this may be part of your your tip-in issue.
i.e it's scaling for larger injectors than are fitted.

try changing the value to 440cc and see what happens.

my Haltech interceptor does not have the injector scaling function, so my legacy still uses a tip-in adjustment for the smaller injectors.
however with the better flowing engine that I have, this is a good thing as it does need the larger tip-in values to prevent the leaning out issue.
with the stock injectors fitted the car would run very lean on tip-in and stutter, both at idle and while driving

These are 2005 USDM STi side-feeds, so I am fairly certain that they are 520cc, but I'll go give em' a whirl at the 440cc scaling anyway.

[Reuben]

dude, 2005 injectors are top feed (and in JDM land, pink).

440cc is measured at 80 or 85% duty cycle, i can't remember which, but at 100% duty the come out as 500 something.

[httrdd]

Yes the injectors you are describing are pink.

[Reuben]

Have you considered running a turbo ECU man, a V5 or 6 wrx ecu, will handle those injectors, and boost, just fine.

[anothernord]

Have you considered running a turbo ECU man, a V5 or 6 wrx ecu, will handle those injectors, and boost, just fine.

Will that ECU plug into my 1997/1998 harness? I have a single-plug JECS ECU.

[Robbks]

Have you considered running a turbo ECU man, a V5 or 6 wrx ecu, will handle those injectors, and boost, just fine.

Timing will be far too advanced for the compression ratio.

i have the opposite problem
ECU designed for high comp (9:1), and new engine is low comp (8:1)

[Reuben]

Yeah. bugger. And one plugs FTL.

So you have an OBD-II loom, and the V5 is OBD-II, but the one plug is like the OBD-I auto GT here, which runs grey's and twin turbo. Bugger eh.\

Rob is right too, CR will be waaaaaaaaaaay out.


Stuff it, just go aftermarket!

[anothernord]

I did some more research, and it appears that the USDM yellow side-feeds from the 2004-2006 STi are rated at 535cc, while the JDM yellow side-feeds are 440cc, and are found in early WRX motors. I tried scaling to 440, and the car had trouble finding 14.7 AFR at idle.

I scored a Greddy pressure sensor with the harness for a fantastic price, so I'll finally be able to to complete my speed-density conversion, and ditch the MAF once and for all!

[Reuben]

Damn America being weird. lol.

[impreza_GC8]

To throw another wrench in your figuring, the grey sidefeed injectors I run in my turbo'ed Outback are also so-called 440's. My car is on the stock ECU which is scaled for 380s, that explains why my car sucks to drive. Standalone EMS will fix all that.

[anothernord]

To throw another wrench in your figuring, the grey sidefeed injectors I run in my turbo'ed Outback are also so-called 440's. My car is on the stock ECU which is scaled for 380s, that explains why my car sucks to drive. Standalone EMS will fix all that.

At least your larger injectors are close to the size the ECU thinks they are. My injectors are nearly twice as large as the stockers, making tuning quite interesting.

I still got 28.5 MPG on the highway though!

And 21 in town. :smt012

[anothernord]

WTF, this stuff just appeared in my trunk.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/491889d8-1.jpg

JC Sports turbo kit, up/down pipes for stock header, TD04, oil lines, TMIC, and oil pan (not pictured). :grin: :grin: I hope the turbo inlet clears the rear SC support plate.

[Soul Shinobi]

Hahaha, you really caught me off guard there. :grin: I can't wait to see how this is all going to go together, I wish I had the resources to get this custom.

[httrdd]

WTF, this stuff just appeared in my trunk.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/491889d8-1.jpg

JC Sports turbo kit, up/down pipes for stock header, TD04, oil lines, TMIC, and oil pan (not pictured). :grin: :grin: I hope the turbo inlet clears the rear SC support plate.

You were not kidding huh? I thought you already had the intercooler?

[anothernord]

^^ That's the real JC Sports intercooler, with the side-inlet. I figure I'd pick it up along with the rest of the parts to sort of keep the kit complete should I ever sell it.

[Reuben]

Very nice!


To throw another wrench in your figuring, the grey sidefeed injectors I run in my turbo'ed Outback are also so-called 440's. My car is on the stock ECU which is scaled for 380s, that explains why my car sucks to drive. Standalone EMS will fix all that.

Yup, again, 380cc is not 100% duty, but the 440 figure you got will be 100%.

In the world that DOES get these injectors factory (greys pre 96 turbo, yellows post 96 turbo)(with exceptions), we know the greys as 380cc, and yellows as 440cc. There's also 2 types of yellow side feed 440cc. 96-98, and 98-00/01. The later can be decapped to something silly like 800cc, the former cannot. They are different sizes too, so new yellows don't fit old yellow rails.

[02_Legacy]

WTF, this stuff just appeared in my trunk.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/491889d8-1.jpg

JC Sports turbo kit, up/down pipes for stock header, TD04, oil lines, TMIC, and oil pan (not pictured). :grin: :grin: I hope the turbo inlet clears the rear SC support plate.

so you are going twin charged right? are you going to de-stroke your engine then? otherwise what is the point of twincharging when you can only run 6-8psi and the charger itself can do that?

[Sooprazn]

[quote="anothernord"]WTF, this stuff just appeared in my trunk.

The fans were in there last weekend. But the turbo now too?
:shock:

[anothernord]

WTF, this stuff just appeared in my trunk.


JC Sports turbo kit, up/down pipes for stock header, TD04, oil lines, TMIC, and oil pan (not pictured). :grin: :grin: I hope the turbo inlet clears the rear SC support plate.

so you are going twin charged right? are you going to de-stroke your engine then? otherwise what is the point of twincharging when you can only run 6-8psi and the charger itself can do that?

I'd like to keep the stock motor and run 10-12 psi, with a very conservative tune. If I go higher, I will most likely get an alcohol injection system. I know that everyone everywhere says that the most you can push into an N/A Subaru motor is 5-6 psi, but that's because most people who run more than that have tried to do so without proper fueling and engine management. While I'm certainly not the best tuner, I hopefully know enough to keep it from blowing up. Some day, when I get the setup locked down, I'll get it professionally tuned.

The supercharger is basically maxed out at this point. The high altitude up here means I have to spin the blower to its limit in order to reach my current boost of 5-6 psi.

[Reuben]

Yeah, as long as you have good fueling, good cooling, and run the highest octane possible, 10psi will be mint.

[Soul Shinobi]

I couldn't imagine pushing anything more than 10 in an NA, it sounds like a lot. :shock: But I'm no expert. :smile:

[anothernord]

There's a guy here in CO that pushed something like 18 PSI into the 10:1 CR'd 2001 RS before it blew. Its all about the tuning.

[Soul Shinobi]

Jeez. That's so interesting, I had no idea it was possible. It makes me want to get into tuning even more, hopefully I'll get to play with a friend's '02 WRX soon. Know any good introductory resources?

[anothernord]

There's lots of books out there about tuning. Turbocharging Performance Handbook by Hartman is one that has been recommended to me a few times.

[Soul Shinobi]

Thanks, added to my Amazon cart. It's eligible for super-saver shipping if I spend $5 more, what else do I... Oh yeah Ghost in the Shell manga. :grin:

[httrdd]

There's a guy here in CO that pushed something like 18 PSI into the 10:1 CR'd 2001 RS before it blew. Its all about the tuning.

Key words. Lol. How boost much was he running consistantly?

[anothernord]

He was running 12-15 before cranking it to 18. So it possible.

I guess I can try it, and if something blows, it will give me an excuse to rebuild with ej22t pistons.

[Reuben]

Just a note, some factory turbo subies are 9:1 and 9.5:1 So if his car is 10:1, sweet as

I run 18 psi daily on my 8.5:1 engine, stock fueling and an ECU tuned for 8:1 (sti ecu), run 98 RON. It does have forgies though.

[Soul Shinobi]

The turbo motors seem to be in the low to mid 8's range, if WikiNASIOC is to be believed (which mostly covers USDM cars, you may have different engines there in Oceania/Asia).

http://wiki.nasioc.com/wiki/EJ22#EJ22

[anothernord]

Update time: Sort of.

Since my last update, I've installed an old JC Sports turbo kit on the wagon, with the intention to work out a twin-charging system. By the looks of things, it should work.

Basically, a 3"< 2" 90 degree silicone coupler will attach to the inlet of the supercharger, and a couple 2" silicone elbows and chunks of pipe will connect the outlet of the turbo to the inlet of the SC. The SC will run like it was before through the FMIC.

The turbo inlet will be more tricky. I'll have to trim back, and possibly redesign the main supercharger mounting plate to allow just enough room for a tight turn 90 degree inlet to fit in there. Then I'll have to snake a 2.5" intake pipe up, behind, and above the turbo where the WRX MAF and filter will be.

However, this won't be happening for another month or so, at best after finals are over. I'll post up some pictures of the turbo kit for those who are interested.

[TGX4776]

this car gets more amazing every update

[Soul Shinobi]

Fascinating, pics for the win!

[Dead91silvia]

I just now saw this tread! Thats freaking sweet! :smt023

As for moving the ABS, just wondering why you didnt convert it to non-ABS? Just wondering...

You do have me thinking of a SC over a WRX sap though.... :smt017

Whats the MPG?

[anothernord]

Well, honestly it was pretty easy to move the ABS, and I happen to like ABS, so it made sense to me.

Gas mileage is pretty close to stock in town; 21-22 in the winter, 23-24 in summer, depending on how I drive. Highway mileage sucks more though; only about 25 at best.

[02_Legacy]

Highway mileage sucks more though; only about 25 at best.
You have to get that clutch back on the supercharger so you can turn it off when you want. Then you should get normal gas mileage even on the highway. Of cource i just remembered you are going to twin charged :twisted: so it doesn't really matter.

[anothernord]

^^^ That would the idea, but since when the SC is off, you've got a couple very heavy rotors impeding the air stream, so the engine has to work extra hard to pull air through them. Since the engine uses a much larger volume of air at highway speeds, power, and therefore, gas mileage is a bit worse. Especially at speeds above 70 MPH.

[02_Legacy]

O I just went back in your build thread and you do have the clutch on there. I guess that makes sence though if you think about it haveing to suck air through the supercharger.

[Dead91silvia]

Well, honestly it was pretty easy to move the ABS, and I happen to like ABS, so it made sense to me.

Gas mileage is pretty close to stock in town; 21-22 in the winter, 23-24 in summer, depending on how I drive. Highway mileage sucks more though; only about 25 at best.

Ok, I see. I hate ABS, but thats me. I have the fuse pulled in the winter for snow driving when I go up to Mt Rainier...

You still get 25 MPG with that?! I only get 21-25 at best with mine. I got 28 once on a long trip... I'm thinking of this even more now! :grin:

[robsontuning]

Love the progress and glad to see I am not the only one wanting to go SC and turbo

[httrdd]

Yea, but you are doing it on 2 more cylinders!

[impreza_GC8]

Do you have any more info on how to move the ABS pump? I'd like to get rid of mine completely but it needs to go for a FMIC in the meantime.

[anothernord]

There's a couple pictures at the bottom of the first page. Basically, you unbolt it, make two vertical cuts in the fender wall, then bend the piece you just freed flat.

Then, push the pump/bend the lines into the fender. Once you've got it where you want it, drill new holes in the frame, and bolt it down. That's pretty much it. If you wanted to be really clean about it, cut the fender out with a dremel, and put some paint on the edges. I just used a sawzall and called it a day.

[impreza_GC8]

Well that certainly is the easiest method. Thanks!

[Dmang]

Subscribed, great build. Wish I could use a M90, I've got like 3 of them. I guess your running on premium? Is there any way to tie in the electronic bypass valve used in the c230?

[anothernord]

There's no valves in this one at all, it just has an electrically-clutched pulley. And any FI application should always use the highest octane you can get.

[Dmang]

I'm just wondering if it where possible to tie in the bypass from the donor vehicle so that when the sc is off it's easier on the engine. I would love to do something like this, but the whole premium gas thing is why the Mustang is a garage ornament. Love the SC on/off thing.

[anothernord]

It's possible to just add in an aftermarket butterfly valve, like the Procharger Pro-flo valve. You can always run E85, it's actually cost effective with current prices, at least where I live.

[omahasubaru]

Great build here! :smt023 love it!


It's possible to just add in an aftermarket butterfly valve, like the Procharger Pro-flo valve. You can always run E85, it's actually cost effective with current prices, at least where I live.

Not really once you factor in how much more E85 you will consume. It will be a wash at best.

[anothernord]

I did the math, and E85 has to be about 20% cheaper to make it worth it. Interestingly, city mileage only goes down slightly, because the torque is higher, so your foot is down less. On the highway, of course, mileage is reduced by about 25%, which also happens to be about the energy density difference between the two fuels.

[Kansei]

an updates on the twin charging?

[chuckthefuk]

he gave up on it and went turbo..

[anothernord]

Hold on now, I actually got it working, it just wasn't practical for a DD. Someday...

[chuckthefuk]

Ya I figured that came out wrong... I should of said "He switched to a turbo setup for practicality"

[anothernord]

:twisted: You're fine, good sir.

But I miss the whine of the SC still.

[chuckthefuk]

So whats the real update Nord?

[anothernord]

There's not much new to report on, except I put in some new GR-2 rear struts, oil pressure gauge, new wheels and tires, catch can, and an upper coolant reservoir from an STi.

I guess I should update my members' ride. Heh.

[Kansei]

awww... sad day... i was enjoying this build so much... i actually went through the entire thing last night and was hoping for big updates....

oh well. maybe when you get another car to dd.