My supercharger build: Update 7/5/2010 Emanage!

[anothernord]

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_0259-1.jpg

-----

Start of the project, back in June '09.

I have been researching forced induction for a long time, and now that I have time, I have decided to install an Eaton M62 supercharger into my 97' Legacy Outback. I will be running 5psi of intercooled boost.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_1725-1.jpg

Videos:

Start-up and rev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwyAxE08ctI

Drive-by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoXPuy2OWE0

Parts list:

-Eaton M62 roots type supercharger (positive displacement)
-2006 WRX TMIC
-Turbo XS RBV-H34 Bypass valve
-2006 STi fuel pump
-RalliTEK Perfect Power 6 piggyback EM
-NGK BKR7E-11 plugs (one step colder)
-Custom double power steering pulley
-Innovative LC-1 Wideband O2 setup

RS25.com member Skidd inspired me to take on this build with his own SC project on a 2000 RS. Our engines aren't too dissimilar, and the basic concept is the same.

Skidd's SC build:
http://www.ludicrous-speed.com/wiki/ind ... ild_Part_1 (http://www.ludicrous-speed.com/wiki/index.php?title=2000_Subaru_Impreza_2.5RSC_Build_Part_1)

So I have been gathering parts and knowledge over the last few months, and today I got a little present in the mail thanks to ebay: an Eaton M62 supercharger from a 2001 Mercedes Kompressor.

I will not just be slapping this on my car, I intend to do it correctly. Although I want to keep cost down as much as possible, there is one thing I did splurge on; EM. I bought a used RalliTEK Perfect Power 6 piggyback ECU complete with all the accessories needed. I also snagged a set of one step colder spark plugs to help avoid detonation, as well as an STi fuel pump.

So today I started the build, first by bending the power steering lines toward the IM for more clearance, as well as making a few cardboard mockups of the mounting brackets.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3275-1.jpg

I have determined that the ABS pump will have to be moved. There just isn't enough width to seat the SC in and still have it clear the hood. My plan is to cut the lines, flare the ends, install new fittings, and use flexible steel lines to allow the pump to be mounted in the fender well where the snorkus used to be. I will be taking steps to protect the pump from the elements.

Also, I moved the alarm speaker, and the charcoal canister to the back of the engine bay.



If you see some glaring error in my plans please tell me. :grin: I like to take advice, suggestions, and questions. I'll be updating this thread from time to time.

[T_F_E]

awesome, keep us posted

[Reason]

Cool, it's about time to see someone take some initiative. If you don't mind me asking where did you score the PP6 and how much? :grin:

[anothernord]

I got the PP6 from a guy on the nasioc classifieds for $250 shipped. That seems to be the going price for a used one.

I'll do a full writeup/ diy for the PP6 once it comes in the mail ad I figure out everything myself. Lol.

im glad you write in *actually happening*... otherwise i may have skipped over it because i thought it'd be another post from xXGTBspecXx

[Okin DaVanh]

+1 for self motivation :smt023

What did you mean by "flexible lines" when relocating the ABS? I ask 'cause the lines build up so much pressure, that when applied, flex can be a downside. Have you thought about maybe bolting it onto the inside (of the engine compartment) of the rail? or maybe just getting some universal brake line (same size tubing tho) have it bent (or do it yourself) and work from the proportioner (sp) out to the unit? Just a thought :dontknow:

[anothernord]

Well, my idea with the flexible lines was to allow me to easily move the pump around. And get it situated in the fender area, but I guess I wouldn't be worth losing braking ability. I could just hack open the fender with a saw and force the pumpin there, but that wouldn't be very clean.

I'm no expert with dealing with brake lines. Lol. I am pretty much learning as I go.

[2.5GT]

I'll be keeping an eye on this. Good luck with the build and keep us updated :smt023

[Sarra]

Well, my idea with the flexible lines was to allow me to easily move the pump around. And get it situated in the fender area, but I guess I wouldn't be worth losing braking ability. I could just hack open the fender with a saw and force the pumpin there, but that wouldn't be very clean.

I'm no expert with dealing with brake lines. Lol. I am pretty much learning as I go.

I responded to your thread on NASIOC about this... I'll add to it here since you touched on something I didn't cover there.

Brake lines are made to a standard. Example, the hard lines are all steel, and use the same style double flare for the connectors. You can't just cut out a section of hard line and put in flexible brake hose, especially on an ABS pump, because your ABS pump isn't designed for that flexible hose.

You also can't cut out sections of your hard line going to the pump, because as I mentioned on NASIOC, the ABS pump is calibrated for specific lengths of hard lines. Shorter line = Oops, it's not going to work quite right (in theory). What will happen is, if you do shorten, lengthen, or replace some of the hard line with flexible brake hose, during ABS operation, you will either have too high, or too low pressure during ABS operation. Instead of the ABS giving you a 20% lockup, you might end up with 2% lockup, or 40% lockup (20% lockup: The wheel is spinning 80% of the time, and locked up 20% of the time; the G meter in the unit will reduce this to 10% lockup, or even 5% lockup if you have ABS engage while cornering hard). This will reduce the effectiveness of your ABS, increase stopping distance, and possibly cause erratic handling on low traction surfaces... Imagine if one wheel gets more lockup than the other, it could send you into a spin on ice or snow.

In reality, shorter or longer hard line most probably won't cause a huge change, but if the ECU detects that the ABS isn't working properly when it is being activated, it may disable the system, in which case, you'll have to put brand new hard lines in, and start the project over again.

There have been a few M62 supercharger builds (Doug's, and I think Skidd's from the RS forums) where they just bent the hard lines where they come out the top of the pump over a little for more clearance, and that works fine. You can't make the hard lines shorter or longer, or put in a section of flexible hose, but you can bend them as much as you want (just don't break the line).

[anothernord]

Thanks for the great info Sarra, I didn't realize the length of the hose affected braking performance.

Although, Skidd doesn't have the giant DOHC timing belt cover to deal with, and Doug doesn't even have ABS! :razz: I suppose I could cut out the fender around the pump, and make a hold big enough to let it slide in, then bend the lines, make a new bracket, and put a cover over the part of the pump that's in the fender.

I need to move the ABS about 2.5 inches to allow the SC to fit between the timing belt cover and the pump.

Anyway, can't work on it till this Friday. So I'll have time to think things over.

Edit: Do you mean RS25.com? I don't remember posting this on Nasioc. :smt017

[anothernord]

im glad you write in *actually happening*... otherwise i may have skipped over it because i thought it'd be another post from xXGTBspecXx

Oh yeah, haha, people always talk about their big plans *cough*jg09 sti swap*cough* then don't follow through. I am not like that. I will have forced induction on this car!

[Plays_with_Toys]

subscribed
+ requesting a ride when it's done :smt023

[Mikey97D]

:smt023

Question - Why the positive displacement type supercharger and not the centrifugal type?

[anothernord]

:smt023

Question - Why the positive displacement type supercharger and not the centrifugal type?

Mainly cost and availability. All the centrifugal ones are like 700 bucks and impossible to find. Plus you get a more linear power curve with the positive displacement type.

[Sarra]

Thanks for the great info Sarra, I didn't realize the length of the hose affected braking performance.

Although, Skidd doesn't have the giant DOHC timing belt cover to deal with, and Doug doesn't even have ABS! :razz: I suppose I could cut out the fender around the pump, and make a hold big enough to let it slide in, then bend the lines, make a new bracket, and put a cover over the part of the pump that's in the fender.

I need to move the ABS about 2.5 inches to allow the SC to fit between the timing belt cover and the pump.

Anyway, can't work on it till this Friday. So I'll have time to think things over.

Edit: Do you mean RS25.com? I don't remember posting this on Nasioc. :smt017

Haha, you're right, RS25.com not NASIOC. :p

I was thinking about this as well... You could probably just move the pump over a little and bend the lines slightly, drill and tap some new holes for the bolts to bolt the pump down, and not have to stick it in your fender well. Nowhere to put it in there, really, and if you bottomed out, or had some road debris go up through your splash guard, you could take your pump out completely, and have no brakes at all.

[jg09]

Oh yeah, haha, people always talk about their big plans *cough*jg09 sti swap*cough*

:naka: I'm indecisive! The on-road vs. off-road decision is tough to make!


But nice project, I remember people talking about how cool it would be for someone to supercharge on this site not too long ago like it was a new, novel idea.

[anothernord]

Yeah, I understand those kind of decisions. I went back and forth about turbo vs. supercharger for about 6 months. Finally I realized that I could do a SC without taking my car offline like I would with a turbo; I have be able put it back on the road in case of an emergency Slurpee run.

As for the ABS pump; another though occurred to me. Why not turn the pump 90 degrees so it sits flat against the fender wall? The main lines could be rotated at their threads on the pump, and the only ones I'd have to bend would be the input lines. Or I could just cut those two out and make new ones of the same length tubing, using flare fittings where the connect with the old lines. Hmm...these decisions are best made slowly.

[hink01wag]

dam nice research!!! thanks for posting this. i recently bought a Rimmer Supercharger and plan to have installed in a few weeks. ill keep you posted.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/img_3600-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/img_3594-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

This would look so awesome with the tmic :grin:

[anothernord]

Did someone say intercooler?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3285-1.jpg

The clutch fluid reservoir gets in the way of the intake side of the intercooler, so it can't fit flat in the engine bay. It still clears the hood, and lines up with the throttle body good enough. Only issue will be the BPV. There is only about an inch between the throttle cables and the front of the intercooler where the BPV sits. I will be fabricating a plate and a 90 degree coupling to attach to the BPV.

So I am pretty sure I will go ahead and hack open my fender and push the pump into the fender well about 3 inches. Then bend the lines to fit. This way I won't have to mess with cutting the hard lines. I will put some sort of protective box around the part of the pump that fits in the fender.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3288-1.jpg

[Navi271]

nice! can't wait to see this all come together!!
definitely be careful bending the lines, great idea tho

its like a
"how much shit can you stuff into the engine bay" contest...

:razz:

[Reason]

its like a
"how much shit can you stuff into the engine bay" contest...

:razz:

lol

[anothernord]

How about we clear some space then?

So I the ABS pump moved today. It opened up even more space than I expected. I just used the trusty sawzall and cut open the fender, then bent the lines by hand as I slid the pump in. I drilled new holes, and secured the pump with the old bolts plus nuts and lock washers.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3295-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3296-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3304-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

Good progress.

And how hard is it to "bend" the lines? or just rotate the whole assembly?

[anothernord]

Good progress.

And how hard is it to "bend" the lines? or just rotate the whole assembly?

Bending can be done by hand if you separate one line from the rest to get a decent grip on it. Its easier to stick a screwdriver or something at the point you want to bend, then pull the line back further down.

Rotating the assembly is something I considered, but I didn't want to mess with loosening the bolts on the pump and tangling with the lines. This way, all you have to do is bend all the lines in the same spot.

[StatGSR]

i hope this goes well for you, I think i might consider something like this for the eg33 after i get that swap done.. i got no abs so i got nothing but room over there. keep it goin dude!

[anothernord]

Yeah, I will take lots of pictures so other people can duplicate the work.

[Navi271]

WOW! that's freakin awesome! looks stock, like it never moved

[ccampbell2546]

Yeah, I love how the it looks so natural. I mean, I know there is a supercharger stuck in the corner but, it does lock stockish, like it's supposed to be there. Awesome build!

[Okin DaVanh]

I like.... but


Question:

Since you've now moved the pump into the well (somewhat) will there be anything else to balance the front end out? What I mean is, now the charger and the pump reside mainly in the front left corner of the car.

Also: (to me) that looks a bit dangerous where it is, the way it is. My .$02 Is there anyway to spin it, so that it get mounted onto the wheel hump instead? If not, maybe removing your fender and having a small safety cage welded around the pump would aid incase of ....

[anothernord]

Yeah, I have been working out some kinda of box or something to keep the elements from the pump. The bottom of the pump is somewhat protected by the metal flap, but I know more is needed. Until I come up with something permanent it'll just be covered by plastic bag :grin:

Anyway, next major task is mounting the SC on the engine, and getting Group N engine mounts.

[Sarra]

Some Ford and Chevy trucks came with very similar, if not the same, pump as the Legacy/Impreza did/does, and they mount it on the frame rail under the truck. I mean, right under the truck, in the elements, exposed to rocks and all kinds of stuff. They're on top of the rail, not on the bottom so they are somewhat protected, but your pump should be fine with minimal protection. However, if you get in a wreck, and the fender gets crunched, you very well may lose braking, both base brakes and ABS.

[anothernord]

Got my RalliTEK Perfect Power 6 ECU wired in today, and it was not as hard as I expected.

Now I just have to figure out how to use the software. It didn't start with the all 0 base map, which was to be expected, but I loaded a map for a 2005 2.5RS and it ran ok. I'll mess with it more in the coming days, while I try to find a large aluminum plate to mount the SC on. The STi fuel pump should be getting installed soon as well.

I'll post up the wiring diagrams in the Electrical section soon, its really quite simple to install.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3313-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

That right there looks like a mess! :shock:

[anothernord]

There are a lot of wires, but you don't have to mess with most of them. :razz:

[hink01wag]

can you make custom maps w/ the software provided for the piggy back? i just ordered one for my build. when do you think you'll have diy for the installation?

[d1giPhux]

+1 on the DIY. :lol: Definitely enjoying this thread so far!

[anothernord]

Hey guys, I'll be back Saturday so I should be able to post up some material then. As for the maps, I'll have to figure out the tuning process first.

[anothernord]

Ok, here is the wiring diagram for the PP6 on a 1997 single plug ECU.

The greyish color is actually white, but it has to be able to show up on the diagram.

This thread contains the information necessary to configure the SMT6.
EDIT: in global settings, "Teeth per turn" should be 14, and "Teeth per firing" should be 20.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... hlight=pp6 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115865&highlight=pp6)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/Capture1-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

Am i getting this right? The Violet and Blue wires tap into the #5 beige wire? Same with Pink and Yellow in #8?

[anothernord]

Its a little unclear because of the color, but the white wire is actually cut, with the end coming from the car attaching to the blue wire, and the end that is still attached to the ECU is connected to the violet wire.

Also, I just got done with a run with the PP6, and it seems to bump and surge at certain RPM's. Also, the RPM needle fluctuates and moves faster and slower in relation to what it should be. This leads me to believe that there is a problem with the ignition setup...

Update: Ah ha! One of the blue/black "Pull Up" wires must also be connected to the incoming crank signal wire along with the yellow wire. No more crazy bumps and lurches. I currently have the "Teeth per turn" set to 14, and "Teeth per firing" set to 20.

[2.5GT]

Any new pictures and progress?

[anothernord]

Progress yes, but no pictures at the moment.

I made cardboard templates for the mounting plate. It will be bolted to the passenger side head, then braced with a triangular steel piece to the valve cover.

For the pulley, I'll need to utilize a stepper pulley off the power steering pulley to run the SC at the correct speed. I might go to a machine shop and have them make a whole new pulley instead of ghetto-fabbing an old PS pulley by welding another bigger pulley on the front.

Fuel pump is next to get installed though.

[anothernord]

Installed the STi fuel pump today, full DIY here.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=14645&p=167089#p167089 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=14645&p=167089#p167089)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/IMG_3384-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

That much weight sitting on top of the head?

Is there anyway to fab. up a bracket and mount it on the side of the body? and how much is this supercharger weight?

[d1giPhux]

Damn.. your really getting along pretty good on this! You should update the picture of the wiring.. might be a good idea for people who may want to do this in the future. Cant wait to see this move along! :happy1:

[anothernord]

That much weight sitting on top of the head?

Is there anyway to fab. up a bracket and mount it on the side of the body? and how much is this supercharger weight?

Mounting the SC on the body would mean that as the engine moves, the belt would be experiencing different loads, so that wouldn't work too well. A possibility, however, is a flexible "spring" or something to hold the weight from underneath.

Although, with a large aluminum plate underneath, and a triangular brace holding the weight against the valve cover should be fine. Plus, the belt will take some of the weight since the tensioning method will simply to move the SC back and forth.

Contrary to what the pictures show, I have decided that it will work best to mount the SC flat with the pressure side up. This makes belt routing 100% simpler for the stepper pulley, since the secondary belt will just be able to go around either side of the coolant hose. If I tried to route the belt under the coolant pipe and back to the crank pulley, the nubs of the timing belt cover would get in the way.

[hink01wag]

k so how were you able to map the piggy back? i installed the unit loaded the software and the drivers for the serial-usb adapter i keep getting a "error 75" pop up when i run the program. do i need to run it on a MAC or XP instead? vista doesn't seem to want to run.

[d1giPhux]

vista sucks with most things.. so i would assume it probably doesn't like that software as well. try XP.

[hink01wag]

no it works... you have to right click on the exe and "run as administrator" but now i dont have the right map for my car. they sent me the 00-04 impreza RS maps. i thought it was the same engine as my 01 legacy?

[Huffer]

no it works... you have to right click on the exe and "run as administrator" but now i dont have the right map for my car. they sent me the 00-04 impreza RS maps. i thought it was the same engine as my 01 legacy?

It is the same engine. EJ25 SOHC + MAP intake sensor.

[hink01wag]

so why does it run like shit when i load the map?

[anothernord]

so why does it run like shit when i load the map?

Make sure your global settings, deflections, and rpm scales are all correct for your engine. The thread on nabisco in my post of the wiring a few posts up has the link. I would post it again but I'm on my iPod. Anyway that thread should have all the global settings listed. I'm actually running the 04 RS map and it works fine, I just had to set the global settings.

[hink01wag]

cool thanks ill try that.

[anothernord]

Ok, It's been a while but today I finally got a mounting plate fabricated and fitted. Its a 1/4" plate of aluminum, with a 3/8" spacer for the rear mounting tab. Underneath the plate will be a shelf support bracket, which will brace the SC against the valve cover. I also made the intake and exhaust plates that will attach to the SC. They still need to have large holes cut in them and aluminum tubes brazed on.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_1726-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_1732-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_1729-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_1731-1.jpg

[jg09]

It's weird seeing a supercharger being setup on an EJ25 but definitely very cool!

[anothernord]

Yeah, crazy I know. To my knowledge this will be the first ever Phase I EJ25 ever supercharged with an M62.

Also, at the recommendation of both reddevil and Skid on nasioc and RS2.5, I will beef up the mounting plates with two 3/8" bars at the front and back of the plate.

[hink01wag]

thanks for the help with the smt6. i for got the 330om resistor. now it runs like a champ. so i talked to the guy at RalliTek and he said that they have a map on their web site that is a really good starting point for the SC. i think im going to go to a tune shop once i get mine installed and have them work with it on the dyno. did you have any plans like that? i know my setup is way different than yours but its the same SC. so do you have a plan for mapping your smt6?

[rudgers73]

You better take this thing to a dyno after you get it running smooth. I wanna see some numbers.

Good job on the fab so far. Looks like you are taking your time and thinking things out.

Keep up with pics and updates, I think a lot of people are waiting to see what comes next.

[anothernord]

thanks for the help with the smt6. i for got the 330om resistor. now it runs like a champ. so i talked to the guy at RalliTek and he said that they have a map on their web site that is a really good starting point for the SC. i think im going to go to a tune shop once i get mine installed and have them work with it on the dyno. did you have any plans like that? i know my setup is way different than yours but its the same SC. so do you have a plan for mapping your smt6?

I hope to eventually get a professional tune done on the car once everything on the mechanical side is taken care of. Until then my basic plan, at the recommendation of Skidd on RS2.5, is to pull back 1 degree of timing for every 1psi of boost, possibly more on the top end of the rpm spectrum just to be safe. Also I will richen the map on boost, tapering up as I go, to keep my AFR's at 10.5 - 11 : 1. To do this I will need a wideband setup, and I am pretty set on an Innovative LC-1. It has programmable narrowband outputs to keep the ECU happy, and has data logging capability.

So basic formula for safe tune until I can get a professional tune is:

1) Rich on boost
2) Pull back timing
3) Run high octane gas

[anothernord]

Finished up the bottom bracket today; its pretty sturdy and I can't move it without moving the whole engine. I also made the first of two top brackets. I plan on making another plate that will brace the two supercharger holes closest to the manifold to the manifold itself and the PS pump flange thing.

I also found another PS pulley at a U pull it and threw that on just for experimentation purposes. I'm thinking about just having them welded together, then drill out the center of the second one so the bolt will fit. This will be temporary, of course. Eventually a really stepper pulley will need to get machined.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3442-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3441-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3434-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_3444-1.jpg

[Navi271]

Amazing!! you should be really proud of yourself, this is coming along great!

[Huffer]

This link might be of use to you:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/t109647 ... dness.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/t109647-shanes-supercharged-goodness.html)

[dodik]

wow, this looks great, but i' be worried to run a belt around a rad hose like that, and ps pump pulley isnt really that big to give your sc good spin. i know its harder done than said but is there way to fab another belt coming off your crank pulley with maybe a few idler pulleys guiding it up?

[Huffer]

Maybe he could fab up a 2-peice shield to go around the rad hose, and if he got a lightweight pulley for the PS, crank and alternator that should take the load off the S/C pulley?

[Reason]

Maybe he could fab up a 2-peice shield to go around the rad hose, and if he got a lightweight pulley for the PS, crank and alternator that should take the load off the S/C pulley?

I got those light weight pulleys :smt023

[anothernord]

I've already got a lightweight crank pulley, and the radiator fan sticks out too far to allow a pulley with a third spline set to be added. As for the size of the PS pulley, yes it is too small to achieve 5 psi, but I don't want to fire it up for the first time with full boost and blow the motor. I figure I'll start small with 2-3 psi, figure out the tune, then move bigger. A new pulley is a lot cheaper than a new set of pistons

Yes, I'll be looking into ways to protect the rad hose from both heat and the possibility of a belt hitting it. I'll be implementing an tensioner pulley where that aluminum brace goes on the top, but I first need to re-make it out of stronger steel so it can take the load. As we speak I'm finishing up the actual mounting of the SC. Pics later today.

[anothernord]

Did some more bracket making today using 3/16" aluminum riveted together at the center. The SC is now bolted down as well. I also added another 1/4" plate on top of the existing plate where the 2 SC bolts onto the main plate. The whole setup seems rock solid, and any force exerted on the whole thing actually moves the whole engine. That said, I'll still need to make the front top angle bracket out of steel so it can take the force of the tensioner pulley that will go there.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3457-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3451-1.jpg

[hink01wag]

Can i ask why your not going with the same bracket set up as the ludicrous speed guy?

[anothernord]

Skidd's car is a Phase II SOHC, and therefore the heads are totally different and the brackets wouldn't has even come close to fitting. Plus, the timing belt cover on my DOHC perfectly interferes with where the belt would run in Skidd's setup.

[anothernord]

The power steering pulley is being welded and machined as we speak, hopefully I'll have pics later today!

Also, my Innovative LC-1 Wideband setup is on its way; still deciding whether to mount the sensor in the stock rear O2 location or to get another bung welded in.

[ouch1011]

looks very promising so far.

i'm concerned that you are going to experience belt slippage, though. the stock layout for the alt/power steering belt isn't designed for that much load. that is shown by the fact that the belt only contacts about half of the crank pulley. but, where i think it is most likely going to slip is right on the powersteering pulley. there is only a couple inches of contact on the p/s pulley, and superchargers take a lot of power to spin. trying to tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping will put a tremendous load on the bearings in the alternator, power steering pump and engine, causing premature failure. same thing with the belt itself.

i'm not sure how feasible it would be, but you might try to fashion an idler pulley between the power steering pump and the crank pulley to get more contact on the crank and p/s pulleys and just use a longer belt.

you might end up with the same problem on the s/c belt itself. i'd try to mount the tensioner pulley as close to the s/c as you can to help get more belt contact on the s/c.

also, are you going to keep the clutch function of the s/c

with the wbo2, i'd mount it where the front o2 sensor goes. wbo2 sensors come with controllers mainly for the heater, but they also usually have the option to output a signal that mimicks a narrow band o2 sensor. you could wire that into the stock o2 sensor wiring to keep the stock pcm happy, but put the wb02 sensor close enough to the engine that it is actually effective. putting the wbo2 where the rear 02 goes is so far from the engine that it isn't going to be accurate and it will likely be sluggish at idle because there won't be enough heat. also, hopefully this is obvious, but if you still plan on running cats, you absolutely cannot mount the wbo2 back there.

[anothernord]

looks very promising so far.

i'm concerned that you are going to experience belt slippage, though. the stock layout for the alt/power steering belt isn't designed for that much load. that is shown by the fact that the belt only contacts about half of the crank pulley. but, where i think it is most likely going to slip is right on the powersteering pulley. there is only a couple inches of contact on the p/s pulley, and superchargers take a lot of power to spin. trying to tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping will put a tremendous load on the bearings in the alternator, power steering pump and engine, causing premature failure. same thing with the belt itself.

i'm not sure how feasible it would be, but you might try to fashion an idler pulley between the power steering pump and the crank pulley to get more contact on the crank and p/s pulleys and just use a longer belt.

you might end up with the same problem on the s/c belt itself. i'd try to mount the tensioner pulley as close to the s/c as you can to help get more belt contact on the s/c.

also, are you going to keep the clutch function of the s/c

with the wbo2, i'd mount it where the front o2 sensor goes. wbo2 sensors come with controllers mainly for the heater, but they also usually have the option to output a signal that mimicks a narrow band o2 sensor. you could wire that into the stock o2 sensor wiring to keep the stock pcm happy, but put the wb02 sensor close enough to the engine that it is actually effective. putting the wbo2 where the rear 02 goes is so far from the engine that it isn't going to be accurate and it will likely be sluggish at idle because there won't be enough heat.

Thanks for the input; this is something I hadn't considered yet. Initially the supercharger will be spinning at 9000 rpm with the double power steering pulley, and at that rpm, the SC should be using about 7hp, or roughly the same as the air conditioner compressor. I don't think this load should cause problems with belt slippage, but when I move to using the alternator stepper pulley for higher boost, It sounds like I'll need more belt wrap. I suppose I could add an idler pulley between the PS pulley and alternator so the belt loops down then up, thus giving the alternator and PS pulleys about 45 degrees more wrap. And for the supercharger pulley, I actually already have a bracket made for an idler pulley that goes down by the PS pulley.

Yes, I really like the electric clutch and I want to keep it since It allows the car basically to go back to stock with the flip of a switch, or in my case, the programmable switch from the Perfect Power 6, alongside a manual override switch.

I'm giving this a 60% chance of getting this think spinning under its own power this week. I just have to go pick up the double pulley, drain some coolant to get the crossover pipe off, put the belt past the pipe, bolt in the idler pulley, and tension it! Also, I just ordered most of the stuff I'll need to do the piping.

Concerning BOV's: Skidd on RS2.5 was using the same BOV I have; a 1" diameter bosch unit, and he reports that it can't relieve pressure fast enough and has had couplers popping off and the like. My plan is to use an additional BOV along the pipe that goes from the SC to the intercooler. Unlike a turbo, the SC still produces boost when you let off the gas at a high rpm, so I must either use 2 BOV's or use the PP6's programming to turn off the electric clutch when the throttle is closed.

[anothernord]

IT WORKS!

Today I picked up the double power steering pulley from the machine shop. Basically they welded them together then cut out the spine piece on the outer pulley so a 19mm socket will fit. Its installation involved removing the A/C fan, which I was able to bend just enough to allow 1/4" of clearance.

Then after three trips to the auto parts store for the right sized belt, I had to drain a little bit of coolant so when I removed the main coolant pipe it wouldn't spill coolant all over the place. Then I added washers under the angle piece holding the idler/tensioner to tighten the belt, and some quick wires to power the clutch from inside the car... And I started the car with the clutch off to begin with. Then I held my breath and hit the switch. It spun up and started humming happily there, blowing out a surprising amount of air.

This video is the first startup of the SC via the switch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jti4OGwuGpc

I also took a quick spin around the neighborhood and I can say it sounds amazing!

*Excuse my dirty engine bay*
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3466-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/IMG_3467-1.jpg

[slaytalera]

nice!! cant wait to see this completed!!!

[Navi271]

that vid makes that thing sounds like an indy car! sweet!

[dodik]

thats pretty cool man, dont forget to add coolant back to normal level before you go beating down on it.

[Huffer]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/07/craftsmanchainsaw35020-1.jpg

:smt029

[d1giPhux]

awesome man! cant wait to see this thing finished and a video of it driving!

[anothernord]

Haha, thanks guys. In the vid, I only revd it up to about 2500 rpm, and it gets about twice as loud by 4000 rpm. Even without the actual piping done, I can still have some fun turning heads. :twisted:

Other than that, all that's left is the Intake piping, pressure piping, and BOV.

[jg09]

Damn, that sounds good! Kind of weird to hear an EJ25 that sounds like that, but it sounds good!

[rudgers73]

So how much is all of this going to end up costing you? It looks pretty straight-forward from your progress. I can see others following your lead if things all pan out. If you put together a formal writeup, you might have the coolest DIY on SLi.
:smt023

[anothernord]

So how much is all of this going to end up costing you? It looks pretty straight-forward from your progress. I can see others following your lead if things all pan out. If you put together a formal writeup, you might have the coolest DIY on SLi.
:smt023

My goal is to keep all costs below $1000, and so far, I'm at about $700, so its looking good, and all I have left to buy is piping and another BOV. This project has been mostly standing in front of the engine looking at things and thinking "well that might fit there, but I'll have to move this...". I did try to make some actual plans for my mounting brackets, but it ended up that I was grinding a little off here and there to make at all fit. I do have to say that its super nice not having to take the car out of service during work. When I was doing the mounting work, I could just leave the plates and stuff bolted down while I went about daily business. More recently, I have moved the intake back so I don't even have to take the intake apart to work on it!

For the final install, I want to set apart a day to tear everything down, take measurements, and make diagrams for the pieces so others can duplicate them. Even then, every build will have its own unique challenges and surprises. If you have basic knowledge of metalwork and know how to use powertools, you can do a project like this. I'm just an 18 year old kid with mostly woodworking tools to use, so if I can do it, anyone can. :smt023

[green97gt]

that = the shit.

where did you get the SC?

what is it called? model?

and why did you pick that one?

im a total forced induction uber-noob

[anothernord]

that = the shit.

where did you get the SC?

what is it called? model?

and why did you pick that one?

im a total forced induction uber-noob

Its an Eaton M62 from at 2001 Mercedes C230, and I got it off ebay. Check the OP for more details on parts I used.

This is a supercharger that is fairly easy to find on ebay, it is small in size, and it produces the CFM (cubic feet per minute) I need at a reasonable RPM. The M45 is smaller but to produce my target of 330 cfm, it would have to spin at 14k rpm, and the M90 is just to big to fit in the engine bay. I looked at other superchargers, but they were all either too big, or too expensive.

[ouch1011]

lol that is awesome.

I'm suprised the s/c only draws that much power, I would have expected much more. Producing 330cfm is no small feat. I guess we'll see what happens when it ends up producing actual pressure. :) I've got my fingers crossed for you.

[anothernord]

Got an exhaust shop to weld in a bung for my Innovative LC-1 wideband setup. They did a great job for only $15.

More bits came in the mail as well, including a couple piping bits from ebay, a flexible intake hose, and a whole bunch of silicone couplers from siliconintakes.com. I literally ordered the couplers last night, and they came today. :shock: I suppose it helps that they are manufactured about 80 miles south of here.

[2.5GT]

Congrats! hard work has paid off.. :smt023

I want to do this now, seriously.

[anothernord]

Congrats! hard work has paid off.. :smt023

I want to do this now, seriously.

Do it! Make it your fall project!

[2.5GT]

Looks like a fun project to do.

Did you have another daily driver? or was this it? I want to collect all the parts and make it a weekend project :lol:

Did you put up the dimensions for the brackets/plates? I will go back and check on it. And if it's all possible, can you just list all the parts you used? :grin:

[anothernord]

Looks like a fun project to do.

Did you have another daily driver? or was this it? I want to collect all the parts and make it a weekend project :lol:

Did you put up the dimensions for the brackets/plates? I will go back and check on it. And if it's all possible, can you just list all the parts you used? :grin:


Nope, this is my only mode of transportation. Only once did I steal my sister's 99' BD to go back and forth to the store in the process of finding the right belt.

So, in addition to the stuff that's already listed:

Piping stuff

-Spectre flexible intake pipe (amazon)
-3" 45 degree bend aluminum pipe (ebay)
-2" 45 degree bend aluminum pipe (ebay)
-2.5" aluminum BOV flange pipe (ebay)
-3" silicone coupler*
-2" silicone coupler*
3" > 2.5" reducer coupler*
2.5" > 2" reducer*

* = All from siliconeintakes.com

Mounting stuff

-20" x 40" 1/4 6061 Aluminum plate << (I would reccomend 3/8" instead) for the main SC plate.
-3/8" x 6" 6061 Aluminum << (just a big slab for the rear spacer plate, and the plates that attach to the shelf support bracket)
-1/8" x 3/4" aluminum plates << (for the "X" pieces)
-1/4" x 1" aluminum plate << (the rear piece that attaches to the manifold)
-a shelf angle bracket
-3/16" angle steel << (for the idler pulley mount)
-Gates K050398 5 rib belt (21/32" x 40-3/8" OC)
-Gates 38008 49021 6 rib idler pulley from Checker's (including the massive bolt/fittings that go with it)
-Lots of random nuts, bolts, washers, and lockwashers
- a bunch of 2.5 cm standard 10mm bolts with standard thread pattern
- big bolt that goes to the back of the head: not sure on the length but it is the finest thread pattern Ace hardware had
- 2 5" bolts that attach the SC to the plate
- 2 4" bolts that attach the SC to the parts closest to the engine

For the pulley, I went to the local pick n' pull for a couple extra PS pulleys, then went to a welding/machine shop and told them to remove the welded in spline piece on the front pulley, then weld them together.

As for the dimensions of stuff, the main plate is kind of crazy, but when I do my final install, I'll try and tear it down and get some measurements.

Of course, I still have ALL the piping yet to finish, so I'll be updating the thread with that. The end is in sight!

And a small update:

I beefed up the rear top bracket piece from a 1/8" x 3/4" aluminum piece, to a 1/4" x 1" piece that is extended over to the next standoff on the manifold. The prior setup was super solid, but more metal is better.

P.S. It was incredibly difficult to bend..

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3501-1.jpg

[hink01wag]

when you had them weld that pulley did the balance it for you? So when do you expect to be completed? i have a lot of questions about tuning?

[anothernord]

I don't think they balanced it, but I haven't had any probelms with vibration or anything. For tuning, I'll try and help as best I can, and you should check the stickies on the engine managment and tuning section on nabisco.

[anothernord]

Piping almost completed:

All that's left is to braze the aluminum pipes to their plates, route the breather lines, find a way to connect the idler air hose, and route the bypass valve.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3506-1.jpg

[2.5GT]

OOhh that thing is so sweet :smt005

This will be on my list to do for 2010 :lol:

[hink01wag]

the only problem i am having is a cut out in the higher rpms. i have a fuel pressure regulator that i haven't installed yet so im hoping that will help with the problem. the only thing i have right now to test the air/fuel mix is the code reader from my buddies work. if you do come up with a custom map let me know. i am going to give RalliTek a call next week and see what they can do for me. i dont have access to a 4wheel dyno so i have to figure out how to log everything on the road.

all i have to say is you might look into a smaller pulley. i have a 2 1/2 inch on the end of my snout and am only pushing 5psi. i hope everything goes together as well as mine did you will for sure have fun with this.

[anothernord]

the only problem i am having is a cut out in the higher rpms. i have a fuel pressure regulator that i haven't installed yet so im hoping that will help with the problem. the only thing i have right now to test the air/fuel mix is the code reader from my buddies work. if you do come up with a custom map let me know. i am going to give RalliTek a call next week and see what they can do for me. i dont have access to a 4wheel dyno so i have to figure out how to log everything on the road.

all i have to say is you might look into a smaller pulley. i have a 2 1/2 inch on the end of my snout and am only pushing 5psi. i hope everything goes together as well as mine did you will for sure have fun with this.

Nice, I would get a wideband setup to monitor your AFR's. I have Innovates's LC-1 system and it works great. I'm getting the piping back monday, so sometime next week I'll have this thing running. I'll send you my map once I get it worked out.

[anothernord]

Finally finished! Today I picked up the tubes that were welded to the plates from the machine shop, then I spent another 5 hours putting everything together and finalizing stuff.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3508-1.jpg

I put some high temp sealant between the plates and the supercharger, and wiggled around the piping to make it fit.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_3509-1.jpg

I ended up routing the intake hose around the power steering lines so there would be more room for the tube to bend back. It worked perfect and now the intake hose snakes over, down, and into the back of the supercharger.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3511-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3510-1.jpg

Then on went the intercooler, which barley clears the hood, the main pressure line, and the Turbo XS BOV. I got a pipe section from ebay that had the exact size of side tube for the Turbo XS, but it had a little lip that I had to grind off. But the BOV fits perfectly on it and is totally sealed.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3512-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_3513-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3519-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3517-1.jpg

^^^ The clearance between the top pressure side pipe and the hood is very close, I suspect the hood was squashing the pipes a little, so I just stuck a couple washers under the hood latch bolts, and it closes better now, and doesn't look any different.

Couldn't really get a good video driving around in the dark, but look for one soon, anyway.

So I went on a drive to get the tune in order, and first impressions were awesome. Not an enormous power increase, but at only ~2 psi, its still an awesome kick when go past 50% throttle (programmed) and the SC kicks on. The boost is linear, so it just pulls harder and harder up to the redline. First gear is crazy; it really smashed me back in the seat. I'd say right now only about a 25 - 30 hp increase, but I'm already planning a stepper pulley off the alternator.

Right now the BOV is just venting to atmosphere, but since the SC immediately stops producing boost when I let off the gas, it just makes a short and tiny "Shhhh" and the A/F goes down to about 10 for a milisecond. No big deal and it feels perfect and normal.

However, when I manually switch the SC on, and drive around, I get crazy whooshing noises from the BOV as the pressure is continually produced the vented when the throttle is closed during shifting, it sounds wicked, but the car bucks and its not nearly as clean.

As far as tuning, I didn't even have to touch the timing. I pulled back 3 degrees at WOT and redline, then tapered down, but it runs perfect without any retard. Fuel wasn't super hard to get in the ballpark either, I just started 6 points rich, and when I saw 9's on the A/F, I just pulley back the numbers until I was at a nice happy 10-11 range.


I am a VERY happy Subaru camper!

[Huffer]

:smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023

[)2edline]

Vid please! I like the concept, lots of money a college kid like me doesn't have tho =[

[Navi271]

yay its done!!! truly awesome work there, can't wait for the vid!

[d1giPhux]

sick! +1 on the vid... were all waiting!

[anothernord]

Ok, video time. These are the lowest of low quality filming. (Videos were taken on closed course)

1st gear with door ajar: :smt012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAthgbtg9Lc

1st gear with doors fully closed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO3sCiATbcc

Outside video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0myqCWIj3yQ

[green97gt]

that=hotness.

[Huffer]

The chuckling is a bit spooky....but understandable.

[anothernord]

The chuckling is a bit spooky....but understandable.

I couldn't help myself. :razz:

[chuckthefuk]

:shock: Just bitchin'!!

Was it not possible to run a FMIC, this would eliminate the clearance issues? Meh either way you need a tune and some more psi. :-D

-Chuck

[anothernord]

I'm not sure about the FMIC, it would definitely require some custom work with the bumper, and the hood closes all right as it is now, its just a tight fit. Right now, I'm contemplating not using the intercooler and just pulling back more timing to compensate for the +80 degree heat increase that the SC will create at about 5 psi. I think that the timing that would have to be pulled would be more than compensated by the power increase. I'm still not set on anything yet though, because I'm still pretty happy as it is now. :razz:

Ideally, I want to keep the clutch on the SC because it makes plumbing and the whole BOV/throttle body after the SC situation easier to manage. If I didn't have the electric clutch, the SC would keep making boost as the engine drops in RPM during a shift, causing the BOV to have to divert massive amounts of air back into the system, and making the whole setup lurch.

Anyway, in the first video, you can see that the camera (and myself) are pushed back from the acceleration. :smile:

[aznguy0087]

love it!!!, i love that sound of a super charger!!!

[jg09]

That's just fucking awesome!

[Huffer]

Right now, I'm contemplating not using the intercooler

Water-air IC? The early SS/RS turbos used them.

[chuckthefuk]

Front mount for the WIN!

[2.5GT]

That thing sounds goood! :smt023

[anothernord]

Right now, I'm contemplating not using the intercooler

Water-air IC? The early SS/RS turbos used them.

That's another good option, I just don't know what the pressure drop on them is. I'll have to research that too. I wonder what the pressure drop is for a front mount system...

Anyway, the Legacy did awesome today as it hauled some friends and I up into the mountains to 12,200 feet for some hiking in the central part of the state (Fairplay). Its quite a bit easier to pass and accelerate onto freeways and such. Yet the boost bug has bitten.

[2.5GT]

How long are you planning to run like this before the engine finally give up? Still, 5psi is enough to do some damage(s)...since the internals are completely stock.

[Huffer]

5psi is nothing. Plenty of boosted RS's run 5-6psi a day for years. What kills them is boost creep and spikes, and manual boost controllers, plus the nut behind the wheel.

[anothernord]

Yeah, I have heard of RS's running 10 psi reliably, with a very good tune, proper EM, cooling, and high octane gas. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think my motor has a 9.7:1 CR, and the RS has 10.5:1, or something in that range. If this is true, I should be able to push more boost with less chance of detonation.

Edit: Unfortunately, all the gas in my area is only 91 octane, and I don't want to mess with octane booster, since its just my daily driver.

Oh yeah, if anyone was wondering, this is about how I felt the first time I went to WOT in first gear.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/OOOhhgif-1.jpg

[SpeedmanRC]

that is nice, props.

[T_F_E]

One of the best projects done to a legacy in a long time, awesome work!

[anothernord]

Thanks guys! Small update: I routed the BPV back into the intake, right after the MAF, and I think the surge of air at idle is backing up past the MAF, causing the unit to read incorrectly, and cause idle "hunting". Its not too bad, and it probably is leaking at various spots.

I tried a setup without the intercooler, and it really didn't help much. Power was maybe a little better, but the pipe would get badly heatsoaked and low-end torque was terrible, so back to intercooled I went. I think boost went up maybe 1 psi, according to my not so accurate boost gauge.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/08/IMG_3533-1.jpg

[anothernord]

Ok, so I got an actual mechanical boost gauge that doesn't read wrong because of my altitude, and it turns out I am only getting 1 psi. Cause? Belt slippage, and major boost leaks. I noticed that RPM's would rise, but boost would just stay at 1 psi. This is good news because it means I can get even more power out of my current pulley setup. Sometime I will be getting a smaller fixed SC pulley, probably not for a while because I just dropped a ton of cash for textbooks, and I have to fix all the vacuum leaks so it will idle correctly with the SC on.

On a funnier note, I was sitting at a stoplight while on a drive testing the drivability of the car when the SC is always on, and the idle is going all over the place; it sounded like I was revving the engine. So a crotch rocket rider pulls up next to me, hears the crazy idle, and begins to rev his motor in preparation for a street race. I tried to say something like, "its just idle hunting!! I don't want to race you!!", but the light turned and the biker took off. :smt005 :smt005

[anothernord]

So the idle hunting turned out to be several leaks both on the intake and pressure side. I fixed most of them, and it is near perfect; that is, it idles fine, and drives normally, except a lot more power and noise!

[xXGTBspecXx]

you sir have a PM... :smt006

[anothernord]

PM returned.

[xXGTBspecXx]

your kit is crazy... :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023

you need a outside video of you driving by getting into it!!


id get crazy like kenne bell massivly loud supercharger whine..

[Airgne]

+1 on geting a video of it running and driving. you might wanna look at making a kit for some ppl on the forum. reason has his business license, and im sure he would be up for it. also it might help his 95.7whp he has. :grin:

[xXGTBspecXx]

actually thats what my PM was about :twisted:

[Airgne]

actually thats what my PM was about :twisted:

^good.

[anothernord]

I'll try to get a video soon. As for the kit, I would be up for it if I didn't just start classes. :mad: I just won't have time, and all the tools I would need are at home, and I'm only there a little bit on weekends. My design needs some major revisions too; like an actual way to tension the pulley, and more efficient intake piping.

But videos I can do. Its been pretty funny driving around campus; definitely turns heads.

[Airgne]

^ cant wait.

how much did the total cost come out to be?

[xXGTBspecXx]

around $1000 for everything... im reading up on skidd's setup...

il be doing this in the near future...

[anothernord]

VIdeos!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCKZfWsn5w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5sUTg0wme4

[jey]

You're almost out of gas :)

[Airgne]

nice. bigger pulley :twisted:

[Reason]

We need outside video drive by's and dyno numbers!

[rougeben83]

hook up that boost gauge! :grin:

[anothernord]

hook up that boost gauge! :grin:

Sadly, it is; I'm barley getting 1.5 PSI :-( I blame inefficient piping.

A 2.75" permanent pulley should fix that though. 5 psi :razz:


You're almost out of gas :)

Less weight FTW!!

[hink01wag]

its not the piping... unless its leaking. the pulley on mine is 3 1/2" and im only getting 5psi... your pulley on the SC looks to be the same size as the power steering pump. you need to get the SC pulley smaller. its a lot more fun!!!

[anothernord]

its not the piping... unless its leaking. the pulley on mine is 3 1/2" and im only getting 5psi... your pulley on the SC looks to be the same size as the power steering pump. you need to get the SC pulley smaller. its a lot more fun!!!

Yep, SC pulley is 3 3/8", and PS pulley is 3 5/8". 2.75" pulley should give me a 1.9:1 ratio that I need.

[anothernord]

So some updates: I have decided to keep my electric clutch pulley and instead get either a larger crank pulley with a matching larger alternator pulley, or a special power steering stepper pulley. The electric clutch, as I have realized is awesome for those times when attention is not needed. It also helps keep mileage where it should be, since I can control when the SC comes on and off.

So look for some new pulleys here in the next month. Hopefully I can get one made without going totally broke.

[d1giPhux]

Nice work man.. just keeps getting better and better!

[impreza_GC8]

Very nice. I'd be interested to see what numbers it puts down on 8psi. I'm running 11 out of my turbo setup and yearning for more. I think that an SC setup wouldn't be able to satisfy my power craving but the fact that you've got only around a grand into it from what I can tell puts you ahead of the game because any turbo kit/conversion/swap is gonna cost much more than that.

[anothernord]

Very nice. I'd be interested to see what numbers it puts down on 8psi. I'm running 11 out of my turbo setup and yearning for more. I think that an SC setup wouldn't be able to satisfy my power craving but the fact that you've got only around a grand into it from what I can tell puts you ahead of the game because any turbo kit/conversion/swap is gonna cost much more than that.

I'm hoping to hit 180-190 WHP on 5-6 psi, and if I go higher, possibly 220 WHP. I'm wary of going higher than 5-6 psi though, since the engine does have stock 9.7:1 internals. Even now with the huge SC pulley, its still a blast to drive compared to stock. I can only imagine 8 psi. :smt007

[anothernord]

So, another update: I have finally fixed the stumbling and rich idle issues! I though I would never get around this problem, but all that had to be done was moving the bypass valve's outlet farther downstream from the MAF. Before, the air would come out right next to the MAF and mess up its signal.

So, this means that I can now get a permanent SC pulley, Yet I'm still weighing options. The thing is, if I get a new SC pulley, I'll have to cut up the exist pulley to get the special female spline end off, so it can be welded to a new pulley. That means I can't put back on the electromagnet clutched pulley unless I find a spline section somewhere that matches the Mercedes' splines.

Edit: Sourcing another spline piece from a Mercedes forum. Hopefully I can get a custom 2.75" pulley in the next couple weeks!

[anothernord]

Ok, a 2.6" permanent pulley is 100% a go. It should give me 6 psi of boost! :twisted: Colder plugs will finally go in as well.

The pulley should be here hopefully by next weekend, so look for some updates then!

[iampetro]

videos :grin:

[anothernord]

videos :grin:

See several posts up; in the middle of the page.

[anothernord]

The custom pulley is in the mail! It is a 2.6" 4130 steel pulley, and the design requires that I press in the bearing. This basically involves putting the pulley in the oven at 350 for a half and hour, then using a gear puller to press the bearing in. Then I'll have to drill and tap holes in the pulley itself, and drill holes in the front spline plate. If all goes as planned, I should be boosting to 5-6 psi this weekend. :grin:

[anothernord]

Well, nothing ever goes as planned. I received my new pulley, but I found that I won't be able to just drill my spline plate and attach it to the pulley; I'll have to have the spline plate cut out, and have a disk welded to it, then drill and screw it to the pulley.

For now, though, I removed the entire setup and threw on my old CAI. This way, I can put in the new colder plugs and new wires without removing everything again after I figure out the spline section over this week. Plus I can have the SC out to put new roller bearings in, since the current ones rattle like hell.

[Grafton]

So some updates: I have decided to keep my electric clutch pulley and instead get either a larger crank pulley with a matching larger alternator pulley, or a special power steering stepper pulley. The electric clutch, as I have realized is awesome for those times when attention is not needed. It also helps keep mileage where it should be, since I can control when the SC comes on and off.

So look for some new pulleys here in the next month. Hopefully I can get one made without going totally broke.

so how does this all work when you have the sc pully off? isn't the sc then making a huge restriction on the intake when your running in "na" mode

do you have to change what map you are running on or something like that?

btw this is awesome

[anothernord]

So some updates: I have decided to keep my electric clutch pulley and instead get either a larger crank pulley with a matching larger alternator pulley, or a special power steering stepper pulley. The electric clutch, as I have realized is awesome for those times when attention is not needed. It also helps keep mileage where it should be, since I can control when the SC comes on and off.

So look for some new pulleys here in the next month. Hopefully I can get one made without going totally broke.

so how does this all work when you have the sc pully off? isn't the sc then making a huge restriction on the intake when your running in "na" mode

do you have to change what map you are running on or something like that?

btw this is awesome

I actually decided to go with a permanent pulley since I posted that; I fixed the issues I was having with the SC on at idle, and I realized that MPG and noise aren't much different anyway.

But to answer your question: yes, the SC does restrict airflow, but its not a huge difference. And I did run a different map in pseudo-NA mode, which was basically the same map with fuel taken back rather then added.

[Grafton]

from the success that your having with this i might consider saving up and giving this a shot on my 2.2l some time in the future

[anothernord]

Got my sweet new pulley, and pressed the bearing in by first putting the pulley in the oven, then using a bench vise to press it in. All that's left now is getting the spine plate made, and putting in the whole setup back on with the new plugs are hopefully new plug wires.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_1794-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_1802-1.jpg

[evolegacy]

i got a question, where do you have the crankcase lines and the PCV lines running? do they still connect to the piping for the intake or do you have them covered with breather filters?

[anothernord]

i got a question, where do you have the crankcase lines and the PCV lines running? do they still connect to the piping for the intake or do you have them covered with breather filters?

They're teed together and go into the intake in the same pipe section that the BPV and IACV goes. I'm going to install a catch can soon since I can see some oil that comes in though those lines.

[evolegacy]

aright, im asking cuz im looking into supercharging my 98GT and im just doing my research. I was going to pick up a Raptor V Supercharger Kit but it there is a more cost effective way of going about it then im game. I looked into the Eaton M62 but cant find pricing or where to buy.

[anothernord]

aright, im asking cuz im looking into supercharging my 98GT and im just doing my research. I was going to pick up a Raptor V Supercharger Kit but it there is a more cost effective way of going about it then im game. I looked into the Eaton M62 but cant find pricing or where to buy.

I got my supercharger from ebay. Just search for "Mercedes supercharger".

The raptor kit is really good, but it requires a different intake manifold to fit their bracketry.

[evolegacy]

really? hmm, the pic of one they have installed in a 2000 RS seems the same as mine. Oh well, I havent got a clue about Superchargers and what will fit, let alone forced induction in general. :smt005 I was looking at Shane's writeup on that wiki link you put up, I like his write up a lot but when it comes to the ECU and the who issue with the MAP, since we have MAFs, how different is the setup?

[anothernord]

really? hmm, the pic of one they have installed in a 2000 RS seems the same as mine. Oh well, I havent got a clue about Superchargers and what will fit, let alone forced induction in general. :smt005 I was looking at Shane's writeup on that wiki link you put up, I like his write up a lot but when it comes to the ECU and the who issue with the MAP, since we have MAFs, how different is the setup?

Well, the type of manifold that the kit requires is the one with the machined vertical part on the passenger side of the manifold. I'm sure you could figure out some other form of mounting anyway.

MAP requires a voltage clamp to allow the sensor to read boost and not freak out the ECU. MAF makes it nice because you don't have to do anything with it so you can just install it into the intake tract and it will work fine. Shane's motor is a SOHC 2.5 with different heads, so the mounting points are a lot different; Shane's being a LOT easier to make than my DOHC.

[evolegacy]

OOOoooohhhhh ok that makes sense. Thanks for the info.

as for finding an M62, doesnt seem to be anything on ebay currently, at least not one that needs the shaft removed to fit in the engine bay of my car. Gonna ask my old man to do some lookin around for me, he is a tranny specialist on a drag race team but does a lot of the parts replacement, including the SC, so he might know where to find one cheap. thanks again nord

[anothernord]

Thanks for the sticky!! I'm honored! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Relating to the build; the last piece of the pulley (puzzle?) was made in a CNC mill earlier today. I will begin the final install tomorrow!

[anothernord]

After a long month, I have finally finished the install of the 2.6" pulley.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3592-1.jpg

The first step was to have an adapter piece made to mate the pulley with the stock splined section on the supercharger, then drill one set of holes to bolt it to the pulley and another to bolt to the spine plate.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3593-1.jpg

The complete pulley system.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3599-1.jpg

Next up was mounting; sliding the pulley on, clipping the snap ring in place, bolting the adapter plate, then spine plate to the supercharger.

Finally, after 3 trips to the store for the right sized belt, I tensioned up the belt and the install was complete!!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3604-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_3606-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3603-1.jpg


Driving!

My first impression was at how loud the setup really is. At idle, I couldn't stand in front of the engine bay with the hood open because its so loud. Driving is louder as well; it sounds a little like the whine is echoing.

However, upon stepping on the gas, I was immediately blown away by the power. Even at half throttle at 2000 rpm, I was getting 4 psi! I didn't dare go higher, since I was still un-tuned at this point.

At first, I noticed that the belt was slipping; the engine rpm would increase up to a point, but the supercharger would sound the same. A quick tension later and no more slippage. :smile:



Until... Later that evening, I started up the car immediately I got a horrifying screeching sound, along with a bogging engine. I stopped the engine, waited, and restarted. It squealed for a moment, then went away. I thought it was probably just the new belt making some break-in noises, so I drove down the street, and suddenly the squeaking began again, and I lost power steering.

I immediately stopped and pulled over, just as smoke began to come out the hood scoop. Under the hood was a stinky mess of melted rubber and plastic and bits of the belt itself. It turned out that the supercharger seized and the belt was just spinning around the pulley, creating a ton of heat and melting stuff in the process.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3610-1.jpg

So I tore apart the supercharger, and found that metal shavings had lodged the rotors at one end. I presume that these came from the intake where I had left some metal filings from drilling the breather line ports. Then I got a new belt, and pulley, cleaned out the intake, and put everything back together. A short test drive later and everything looks good.

I'll be taking it easy the next few days as I work out a basic safe tune, and make sure that the SC doesn't seize again.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/10/IMG_3605-1.jpg

[rudgers73]

More videos please... :smt002

I wanna see an example of the acceleration you can get out of it. The other vids are really neat, but I wanna see you at WOT for a couple of redline shifts. haha

Keep tuning it man, and great job

:smt023 :smt023

[d1giPhux]

How hard was the supercharger to pull apart? Are they easily serviceable as opposed to a turbo setup or something? Hmm.. seems like that might be another benefit perhaps.

[anothernord]

How hard was the supercharger to pull apart? Are they easily serviceable as opposed to a turbo setup or something? Hmm.. seems like that might be another benefit perhaps.

Its actually really simple to take apart. Just 10 bolts and everything comes apart.


More videos please... :smt002

I wanna see an example of the acceleration you can get out of it. The other vids are really neat, but I wanna see you at WOT for a couple of redline shifts. haha

Keep tuning it man, and great job

:smt023 :smt023

Videos will come, but I'm pretty scared of blowing the motor, so for now I'm not going above 4 psi and 4k rpm. But they will come nonetheless.

[anothernord]

VIDEOS!


Start-up and rev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwyAxE08ctI

Drive-by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoXPuy2OWE0

[anothernord]

Well, everything seems to be running well, so I think its safe to fully tension the belt.

[Smithcraft]

This thread is awesome!

Great work anothernord! :smt023

SC

[anothernord]

This thread is awesome!

Great work anothernord! :smt023

SC

Thanks!

Since the last post, I have gone to WOT and redline! It not only sounds wicked, but the increased boost level has turned the car into a freakin' stump puller! It just pulls harder and harder all the way up to the redline; smooth as butter. The calculated horsepower should be somewhere around 230-240, taking into account the 15 hp required to spin the blower at the redline.

However, some minor annoyances are:

1) the new pulley isn't perfectly balanced and vibrates a bit.
2) something in the dash keeps rattling at a specific resonance frequency, not harmful, but annoying for sure.
3) the SC still rattles a little bit. Less now that it is full of fresh oil, but I'm going to try and finally get those new needle bearings in sometime soon.
4) unrelated to the SC; the borla headers makes that terrible sewing-machine sound.

[Reason]

Wrap your header friend, it was well worth it for me. That sound goes away and gives the exhaust a deeper note.

[anothernord]

Wrap your header friend, it was well worth it for me. That sound goes away and gives the exhaust a deeper note.

I have been wanting to do this for a long time, but the ol' "error 404: $$$ not found" keeps coming up. What kind of header wrap would you recommend? What about painting it afterward?

Also, hust finished a little late night SC bearing replacement. It wasn't too hard, I just gave the bearings a few whacks with a rubber mallet after heating the case, and they slid right in. The best part is that there is no more rattling at idle!

[Reason]

I'll see if I still have the link to the stuff I bought. It was a no name brand and I didnt coat it with paint or silicone. I check the header out every so often (today actuall) and still no problems. Wrap it right and tight the first time and you shouldnt have issues.

[anothernord]

I'll see if I still have the link to the stuff I bought. It was a no name brand and I didnt coat it with paint or silicone. I check the header out every so often (today actuall) and still no problems. Wrap it right and tight the first time and you shouldnt have issues.

Awesome, thanks! That's way cheaper than anywhere else I have found! I'll be doing this next weekend for sure.

[WESTcoast]

I wanna be supercharged ohhh sooo badddddd I still wanna see a WOT video so i can we all can go crazy hahaha

On anothe forum I found this:

http://www.groupa.ca/PR_supercharger.html


its way more expensive then your setup but its made for our n/a engines

cant wait to get some moniesss

[anothernord]

I wanna be supercharged ohhh sooo badddddd I still wanna see a WOT video so i can we all can go crazy hahaha

On anothe forum I found this:

http://www.groupa.ca/PR_supercharger.html


its way more expensive then your setup but its made for our n/a engines

cant wait to get some moniesss

Oh yes, I plan on getting lots and lots of videos and media goodness over my Thanksgiving break next week. So check back then!

Those centrifugal SC's are sweet! They are silent, but they really make incredible top-end boost, and they are more efficient than the roots blowers. I heard somewhere that they were selling a kit that only cost $2500 USD, but I don't remember where. It would be worth contacting Raptor directly.

[WESTcoast]

Oh yes, I plan on getting lots and lots of videos and media goodness over my Thanksgiving break next week. So check back then!

Those centrifugal SC's are sweet! They are silent, but they really make incredible top-end boost, and they are more efficient than the roots blowers. I heard somewhere that they were selling a kit that only cost $2500 USD, but I don't remember where. It would be worth contacting Raptor directly.

I cant wait for the videos haha, Im acually in the process of getting a new engine as I have a misfire and a new engine is looking good right now. I'm thinking that of getting a sochc long block and butting my dochc stuff on top of that, which will create higher than normal compression which means more hp heheh but 89 unleaded :( ethier way i wanna do the bits of getting it ready to be supercharged, as turbo is nice, i know alot of guys who have wrx's and sti's and if i want to feel want 320awhp feels like i take a drive with him haha, but superchargers are soo different!

whats the difference between the centerfugal one and the one you have, they look like the same the only info i have on this is from Forza motorsports the video game hahaa where I think centerfugal superchargers were giving power from the tranny or something(probably completely wrong haha)

That 02wrx intercooler, im confused right there... like where does the piping go to it looks like it just jams into where your intake would do, but its suppose to be feeding the supercharger. sorry im a supercharger newb hahaha i mean the whole setup looks interesting!!

[anothernord]

I cant wait for the videos haha, Im acually in the process of getting a new engine as I have a misfire and a new engine is looking good right now. I'm thinking that of getting a sochc long block and butting my dochc stuff on top of that, which will create higher than normal compression which means more hp heheh but 89 unleaded :( ethier way i wanna do the bits of getting it ready to be supercharged, as turbo is nice, i know alot of guys who have wrx's and sti's and if i want to feel want 320awhp feels like i take a drive with him haha, but superchargers are soo different!

whats the difference between the centerfugal one and the one you have, they look like the same the only info i have on this is from Forza motorsports the video game hahaa where I think centerfugal superchargers were giving power from the tranny or something(probably completely wrong haha)

That 02wrx intercooler, im confused right there... like where does the piping go to it looks like it just jams into where your intake would do, but its suppose to be feeding the supercharger. sorry im a supercharger newb hahaha i mean the whole setup looks interesting!!

The piping goes from the filter and curves down and under into the back of the supercharger. Then the pipe coming off the supercharger goes under the intercooler to the back/bottom of it where the air goes into the intercooler, then into the engine.

Centrifugal superchargers produce more top end boost, sort of like a turbo, but a roots style (what I have) produces equal boost at all RPM ranges, with a little more at the top than the bottom. The physical difference is that a centrifugal is basically like a turbo with the exhaust side cut off a replaced by a pulley. A roots blower has two interlocking spinning lobes that move air.

[LunchBox04V]

The centrifugal supercharger works just like a turbo compressor stage. It used a round compressor that sucks air in and "flings" it outward, compressing the air charge. Hence, centrifugal. Roots style uses two "paddles" that rotate on into eachother. Like a paddle the push air into the intake, compressing the air. As I understand it, the roots style just does not seal as well, causing it to be less effecient. I might be wron on that but I know they are not as effecient as the centrifugal type. Both are driven off the crank shaft.

Centrifugal
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/11/supercharger12-1.jpg

Roots(what he has)
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/11/superchargerfix-1.jpg

[anothernord]

^^ That's correct. However, the Eaton blowers take in air from the end of the supercharger rather than the other side, then blow it out the top.

[WESTcoast]

woah thanks guys, I usualy dont get alot of things when it comes to being this technicial but somehow i completly understood that hahaha I guess when I start taking apart engine I should order a popup shop manual from Subaru hahaha.

Ok so my idea is that the intercooler has a pipe that goes into the engine and a pipe that goes into the supercharger where the air goes into it and then somewhere in the piping between the intercooler and the supercharger it looks like you have a T thing so you can have ur intake? Where does the hot air go?

sorry about the questions I just really interested hahaha

[anothernord]

woah thanks guys, I usualy dont get alot of things when it comes to being this technicial but somehow i completly understood that hahaha I guess when I start taking apart engine I should order a popup shop manual from Subaru hahaha.

Ok so my idea is that the intercooler has a pipe that goes into the engine and a pipe that goes into the supercharger where the air goes into it and then somewhere in the piping between the intercooler and the supercharger it looks like you have a T thing so you can have ur intake? Where does the hot air go?

sorry about the questions I just really interested hahaha


The "T" off the charge pipe is for the BOV (technically a bypass valve). Think of the supercharger as a pump; it has an inlet and outlet, where the inlet comes from the filter, and outlet goes to the engine after the intercooler.

When the car is idling, the throttle plate is closed, and the supercharger is still pumping air. Where does all that air go? Well, it goes to that T-pipe into a bypass valve that recirculates that extra air back into the intake. So at idle, the air goes around in a circle, and when you open the throttle to accelerate, the air from the supercharger can go into the engine instead of recirculating.

When you compress anything, it gets hot. This is true with superchargers, which compress air and make it hot. That's the only reason for an intercooler; to cool down the hot air from the blower.

[anothernord]

New videos!!!

0-70, slow shifting, no clutch dumps or bad things like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMwUKpbVSbU


2nd Gear Pull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLg7dxBDruQ


1st Gear Pull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QswfuesQzw4

[d1giPhux]

sick man! now you just needa throw this all together in a kit and start marketing it! haha! do you ever worry about over-boosting using the pulley you have on there currently?

[anothernord]

sick man! now you just needa throw this all together in a kit and start marketing it! haha! do you ever worry about over-boosting using the pulley you have on there currently?

Haha, If I wasn't so busy, that would be a good idea.

I'm not to worried about overboost, since it can't really spike like turbos can. I am consistently getting 5 psi max and about 2.5 psi off idle.

[Grafton]

i am currently hunting parts for a supercharger build like yours

wonder what autox class this plus a DIY port & polish and a set of cams would throw me into...

[evolegacy]

i am currently hunting parts for a supercharger build like yours

wonder what autox class this plus a DIY port & polish and a set of cams would throw me into...


DIY PnP? me curious :shock:

[jey]

Street Mod

[evolegacy]

i know what a PnP is, but DIY? never thought of it

[Grafton]

sorry for the hijack, a diy port and polish is simalar to the $800 + P&P a shop does but it only costs you ~$50 in proper tools, the thing is if you go crazy you might hurt performance or even ruin you head. mainly i am going to (when a spare set of heads is found) smooth out the casting marks in the intake and exhaust and polish the exhaust side nothing major really i dont expect anything all that great from single port heads. but any improvement over stock is good.
/hijack

[anothernord]

Now that the semester is over, I have a few things to starting working on..

[anothernord]

Oh Noo!

Popped the hood today to find oil everywhere around the supercharger. I proceeded to tear everything down, and I found that the coupler between the BPV return pipe, and the SC inlet wasn't completely sealed, causing a vacuum leak.

That still didn't explain where the oil came from, so I took apart more things and found that the insides of all the charge pipes and intake pipes were soaked with oil. The source of the oil? The supercharger. The seals must have gone bad, allowing some of the SC oil to get into the blower, where it circulated through the pipes.

I am positive that this is the case because I took out the SC, drained it, and found that it has lost about half of the oil I put in a month ago, and the PCV and valve breather lines had less oil in them than anything else.

So right now, everything is removed, save the main mounting plate, while I figure out what to do. I do have my old stock intake that I put in so it still drives around just fine.



So, I decided I might as well start the TB relocation. I picked up a used 98' TB locally, and started by chopping off the coolant passage with my portable bandsaw.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_2014-1.jpg

I'm planning one of two possible installs:

The first would be directly on the back of the supercharger. I would have to fab up a 3/8" plate to mate the two, with some tricky countersunk bolts, and threadings in there. It would look like this:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_2015-1.jpg

It would have to sit at an angle in order for the cable actuator to clear the fender well.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_2017-1.jpg

The other possibility, and the one I like the most, is to put the filter deep in the fender well, run a flex pipe to the MAF, then have the TB directly after the MAF, then a hose to the SC like it is currently.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_35801-1.jpg

I like that because it will be the easiest to make brackets for, since I just have to anchor the TB to the strut tower, then the throttle cables should reach, with cruise control.


Right now, I need to decide what to do about the SC. It is very sick, and a rebuild is about $300.

[anothernord]

A fun 0-60 run with snow tires. Notice the the 4 wheel spin at the beginning. :cool:

Sorry for the crappy filming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQ0vhgDEJM

[d1giPhux]

sick! it sounds awesome. so did you rebuilt the S/C? How much that cost you?

[anothernord]

sick! it sounds awesome. so did you rebuilt the S/C? How much that cost you?

It turns out that I overfilled the oil reservoir, so the seals couldn't hold back all the oil, and let some escape. Ill still be looking to get it rebuilt at some point to get rid of all the rattling.

[d1giPhux]

Nice.. we'll at least it was just a minor mistake. Now maybe you know where it leaks from. How hard does it seem to pull? What size pulley are you running now? Def like the sound, must be loud eh?

[anothernord]

Nice.. we'll at least it was just a minor mistake. Now maybe you know where it leaks from. How hard does it seem to pull? What size pulley are you running now? Def like the sound, must be loud eh?

It pulls very nicely, even with boost leaking in various places. I only see about 4 psi right now, and I should be getting about 6. But it still pulls hard; even at this high altitude. Its almost as fast as a stock wrx, but with more low end and a ton more torque. I can easily get all four tires to spin on pavement.

[d1giPhux]

Thats pretty sick man.. do you notice any increase in MPG at all by any chance? 6 psi would be pretty nice no doubt. Wonder how much it beats on the trans?

[anothernord]

Thats pretty sick man.. do you notice any increase in MPG at all by any chance? 6 psi would be pretty nice no doubt. Wonder how much it beats on the trans?

I wish it would cause an MPG increase, but the parasitic drag has about the effect of the air conditioner being on all the time. Also, my driving style has changed for the worse, since boost is fun. I still get about 22-23 MPG in town. I haven't tested highway mileage though.

The trans and clutch can hold the power fine, but obviously doing 6K clutch dumps would break it pretty quickly. In the video, I only slipped the clutch from 4500 RPM, and it still spun the tires.

[anothernord]

In an effort to reduce belt slippage the occurs at high RPM's, I implemented another idler pulley to increase belt wrap of the PS pulley, and the crank pulley. The PS pulley had an alarmingly small amount of wrap; less than the SC pulley itself. I still need to increase the wrap of that pulley however.

The new components are:
- Gates # 36169 idler pulley.
- Gates # K050398 Micro-V AT belt.

Here's the steel bracket that bolts to the power steering pump; behind the pulley: Credit for this particular design goes to Skidd of RS2.5.com. I modified his design by flipping it around, moving the pulley hole up and to right ~ 2 cm, and cutting off the corner to clear the crank pulley.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_2026-1.jpg

Here's how it looks bolted to the PS pump.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/IMG_2027-1.jpg

Everything tensioned up.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2031-2.jpg

Results? Well, I would have liked to say that I got a massive increase it boost, but that didn't happen. What I did observe is that boost climbs more steadily; starting at 2 PSI at 1500 RPM, and building to the max of 4.5 PSI at 3000 rpm. Before it wouldn't give full boost until later in the RPM range.

Also, prior to the install of this pulley, the main belt had to be tensioned super tight to stop major slippage, putting a lot of load on the bearings of all the accessories. This new idler should take some stress off the major components.

[MikeyMeyagi]

thats a wicked cool project! mad props for doing it all yourself!

[originalkontrol]

Wow man, that is so sick! Well fukken done!!! It's a well known fact you should never trust any man who does not LOVE the awesome SC whine... :P
Fukken Cheers,
Erik!!!

[AlanV]

I can say that I need clean underwear. This is amazing. I can not begin to describe how I feel about this other than it's going on my 98 BD until i get my 05 sti short block

[green97gt]

do you do most of your cutting on the portable band saw you mentioned? then use a drill press?

im a real big fan of DIY and this is really great. :smt038 :smt038 :smt038

[anothernord]

Thanks guys, it really sounds awesome.

Yes, I did most of the cutting with the bandsaw, and a drill press for the holes.

[Benders]

Wow...

Very awesome write up man. Props 2 you, I'm highly jealous right now.

So your using the stock injectors correct?

[anothernord]

Wow...

Very awesome write up man. Props 2 you, I'm highly jealous right now.

So your using the stock injectors correct?

Yep, stock injectors, with an STi fuel pump. I should point out that at my higher altitude, (5000 ft), boosting is much safer, because we only get ~12 PSI of pressure from the atmosphere to begin with, where as Sea Level gets 14.7 PSI of atmospheric pressure that pushes air into the engine. So running 5 PSI up here is roughly the same as ~2 PSI at sea level.

[Benders]

Hmm. I see. That's really cool man. Don't forget 2 post up some dyno videos and sheets when you get it dyno tuned! :). Awesome job once again man.

-Ben

[Soul Shinobi]

I'm concerned relocating the throttle body may dull throttle response significantly. Has someone done something similar before?

[anothernord]

I'm concerned relocating the throttle body may dull throttle response significantly. Has someone done something similar before?

Shane on RS2.5 relocated his throttle body to a similar location and I am planning, and he noticed no difference in response.

[AlanV]

I'm sorry for having a blond moment, but what would relocating the throttle body do? Make better response out of the sc?

[anothernord]

I'm sorry for having a blond moment, but what would relocating the throttle body do? Make better response out of the sc?

Its less of a relocatiion, and more of a way of completley changing how the system works. I'm planning on moving the throttle body before the supercharger because it allows the supercharger to pump in a vacuum and have less drag and be quieter.

[anothernord]

Here's the new setup with the new, non-leaking supercharger. I opted for a non-intercooled 2.5" charge pipe, since the intercooler was just causing a huge restriction and pressure drop.

I plan on fabricating a heat shield to direct air from the hood scoop straight onto the filter, and shield it from the hot engine bay at the same time.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/04/4502152196_5f22ec5fc3_b-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/04/4501519111_058cfec907_b1-1.jpg

[Soul Shinobi]

Looks sinister. Just try to keep that air filter clean and dry.

[robsontuning]

Love this project! I am leaning towards supercharger for the 3.6L project myself.

[anothernord]

As we speak, I'm fabbing up a heatshield for the filter out of some sheet metal and rivets.

Also, I'm looking at doing a water/meth injection system as part of the next phase of the build. By the way it looks, I can put together a kit for less than $100.

[Sooprazn]

Right now, I'm contemplating not using the intercooler

Water-air IC? The early SS/RS turbos used them.

That's another good option, I just don't know what the pressure drop on them is. I'll have to research that too. I wonder what the pressure drop is for a front mount system...

Anyway, the Legacy did awesome today as it hauled some friends and I up into the mountains to 12,200 feet for some hiking in the central part of the state (Fairplay). Its quite a bit easier to pass and accelerate onto freeways and such. Yet the boost bug has bitten.


WHAT, YOU LIVE IN FT. COLLINS!?

Dude, I just PM'd you about those headlights, I live in Greeley! I so want to check your car out.

[anothernord]

WHAT, YOU LIVE IN FT. COLLINS!?

Dude, I just PM'd you about those headlights, I live in Greeley! I so want to check your car out.

Yeah, definitely! Any time you're going to be near the CSU campus, just shoot me a PM .

[Sooprazn]

WHAT, YOU LIVE IN FT. COLLINS!?

Dude, I just PM'd you about those headlights, I live in Greeley! I so want to check your car out.

Yeah, definitely! Any time you're going to be near the CSU campus, just shoot me a PM .

Dude, I go up there like every Friday until recently, but it's not really a drive for me at all, i'm used to doing 30minute drives (especially when looking for something to do here at UNC) Holy sh** I have got to check your car out now.

[anothernord]

Finally finished the throttle body relocate. Wow. I should have done this a long time ago; the whole setup is 100% quieter, and I am getting better gas mileage as a result of the SC not having to constantly blow air around in a circle under cruise. Now it just spins around in a vacuum with little parasitic draw.

Next stage? Try and squeeze an intercooler in there, or install a water/alcohol injection system; the engine does not like the hot charge air in the mid-range.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2137-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2138-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/05/IMG_2139-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2140-2.jpg

[TGX4776]

let me know how that heat shield works out.

[anothernord]

let me know how that heat shield works out.

I scrapped the last design before the TB relocate, and if I somehow manage to squeeze the intercooler in there, a new design will have to be figured out.

[TGX4776]

bummer for me lol.

[Soul Shinobi]

...Is that... JB Weld around the pipe that connects to the top of the supercharger?

[anothernord]

...Is that... JB Weld around the pipe that connects to the top of the supercharger?

Its actually welded from the inside out, but everyone that looked at thought it had holes in it, so I threw it on there to stop the complaining. Don't worry, its sealed. :wink:

[httrdd]

Time to make another vid for us!

[green97gt]

thats so sick, i think im going to hurl.

[Reason]

Any plans of hitting a dyno anytime soon?

[anothernord]

Any plans of hitting a dyno anytime soon?


I just missed our local $40 dyno day because I couldn't afford it. :lol:

This summer I will be working, and therefore will be able afford more things like that. I will definitely make it to the summer dyno day down here. The summer's plans include a high-flow cat, the above mentioned intercooler, or water/alcohol injection, then ... suspension!

I will try to make a couple quick videos for y'all to show how much quieter it is, until the throttle is opened that is. :twisted:

[robsontuning]

looking good!

[Robbks]

gen2 has heaps of space for a front mount intercooler.
depending on space, your best bet is to come out of the SC with the hot-side
under the RH headlight, turn 90deg into the cooler,
from the cooler 90deg back under the LH headlight, wiggle around the battery and oil filler and into the TB

this setup gives a very short pipe run for good throttle response, no heat-soak from a TMIC
kind of like this, but with your SC
http://www.amauto.com.au/img/BenWilliamsonConversion%20001.jpg

and i would run your AFM and air filter into the inner-guard
like this
http://www.amauto.com.au/img/AndrewGen2RXSTi%20004.jpg

All these pics are from a V3 STi conversion into a 98 Liberty (legacy)

[anothernord]

^^ That's another option I was considering, and if I had a tig or mig welder, I would probably do it.

Your setup is fantastic by the way!

[Robbks]

Not my setup.
one of the subie conversion specialists that's part of out local Liberty (Legacy) Club
www.amauto.com.au (http://www.amauto.com.au) is his business

[anothernord]

^^ Ah, I see.


Other update: I attempted to fit my old intercooler in the engine bay, with no success. I will have to completely redo the intake piping, possibly with the MAF and filter in the fender, to have enough room for the intercooler and the new throttle body location.

[Robbks]

Just looking back at your setup as it is now.

it wll become much tidier if you,
-go with the in-guard filter and AFM,
-solid-mount the TB to the inner guard (in the engine bay)
-then pipe directly into the SC inlet

this will cut out a LOT of bends and joiners (bad for airflow) and give the required space for a TMIC, aswell as giving it a very "factory" look to the whole thing

[Sooprazn]

Finally finished the throttle body relocate. Wow. I should have done this a long time ago; the whole setup is 100% quieter, and I am getting better gas mileage as a result of the SC not having to constantly blow air around in a circle under cruise. Now it just spins around in a vacuum with little parasitic draw.

Next stage? Try and squeeze an intercooler in there, or install a water/alcohol injection system; the engine does not like the hot charge air in the mid-range.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2137-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2138-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/05/IMG_2139-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_2140-2.jpg


I just want to see this car more and more, but I'm not gonna be up there for another 3 months :(

DAMN FINE PIECE OF WORK.

[anothernord]

Thanks! It's definitely not the fastest car out there, but it sounds awesome and gives you a little kick into the back of the seat. Hopefully I'll have this intercooling problem sorted out by the time you see it.

[anothernord]

I finally decided on a front mount. Here's what I ordered:

This piping kit:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/05/ICPSI95_4-1.jpg

And this intercooler:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/05/Scooler002-1.jpg

[anothernord]

After 2 long days, FMIC install is finished. Tip in is a huge problem with this setup, so I may try a blow-through MAF. Power is awesome however.

Full writeup here:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18630 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18630)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/03/IMG_0101-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/05/IMG_0106-1.jpg

[subie/legacy]

inspiring..I like where this is going.
keep up the good work

[httrdd]

Sexyy! Now it looks even more boss!

[Soul Shinobi]

Very nice. Take off your damn snow tires (unless you're using them for dirt rally cross!)

[anothernord]

Very nice. Take off your damn snow tires (unless you're using them for dirt rally cross!)

:lol: I haven't the funds to replace them, plus they're tons of fun on all the dirt roads out here.

[Soul Shinobi]

I'm running on a $100 set of Craig's List tires that were practically new, they're not half bad. :grin: The only reason I'm sticking with 14"s is because tires are cheaper.

duuuude, awesome loooooking!

i think you need a drop!

[anothernord]

A drop would be awesome, but after my experience on some 4x4 trails in the mountains, I realized how much I need clearance.

[jey]

LOL if I drove around with my snow tires now here they would melt down to slicks after a few hundred miles, it's way too hot for that sort of thing...

[anothernord]

LOL if I drove around with my snow tires now here they would melt down to slicks after a few hundred miles, it's way too hot for that sort of thing...

Yep, only in Colorado can you roll with snow tires year round! :lol:

^ haha,, add WA to that list

[anothernord]

Pulley is done! It only cost an hour of labor to fab up. Basically, my machinist turned off 2 of the extra ribs on the Lightning pulley, cut a very shallow dish in the backside for the lightweight crank pulley to fit into, then clamped it together and welded it. It turned out pretty nicely.

It will almost fit behind my fans, but I'd rather just get them completely out of the way.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/06/IMG_0147-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/06/IMG_0149-2.jpg