ABS / WHEEL BEARING PROBS! need part numbers or help!

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. so.. so far, I have no clue whats going on.

1999 Legacy GT (BD)

- ABS seems to kick in when the steering wheel is turned and I'm coming to a stop. Does not really do it when the wheel is straight. Unplugged the ABS fuse.. and it obviously doesn't do it anymore.

- Hearing a weird 'click' sound when i step on the brakes. However.. it seems that it doesn't ONLY do it when stepping on the brake, as it did it a few times yesterday without doing so.

- Scraping noise when the wheel is turned, and turning at moderate to slow speed (pretty sure this is a bearing).

Anyone have ANY clue what i should look for, or try.. in order to figure out WHAT / WHERE the hell these noises are coming from. Thanks.

[Huffer]

Probably a bad ABS tone wheel.

[d1giPhux]

how much you think it cost to replace it? any info on where i could find out about this in the FSM or a parts diagram or something? Would it be hard to replace myself.. or.. how could i actually test to find out IF it is that.

Also.. any clue on the clicking sound.. what that may be?

Thanks man!

[Huffer]

The clicking/grinding sound could be as simple as a brake shield rubbing on something when you turn. My wife's car had a similar thing going on that I thought was a wheel bearing ($300 at my mechanic) but it was just a bent brake shield ($40 labor).

Honestly I'm not sure about the ABS tone wheel. From memory I think it's part of the hub, and difficult to remove if it's badly rusted. I could be wrong.

[jey]

how much you think it cost to replace it? any info on where i could find out about this in the FSM or a parts diagram or something? Would it be hard to replace myself.. or.. how could i actually test to find out IF it is that.


You can pull the ABS code, which would identify an ABS sensor issue.

You have an FSM in your sig! :lol: Looks like steps are: Wheel off, ABS sensor off, caliper off, rotor off, hub off, and the tone wheel comes off with it.
Also in the FSM, it looks like you can test the ABS sensor. Tone wheel is totally mechanical, you can visually inspect that for damage, measure clearances...

Doesn't look very hard.

[d1giPhux]

I know i have the FSM in my sig.. i'm just asking for more info. I cant really do any of this stuff at my place.. not enough tools / knowledge.. so yeah, it will have to go to the shop. just trying to see if i can diagnose it a little more and save myself some cash.. or maybe figure some stuff out.

[jey]

Try pulling the ABS code yourself - here's the thread:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=12056

[d1giPhux]

thanks man! gonna read this over and see whats up for sure.

edit.. wow this thread is great man! gonna try to get the codes tomorrow and see whats up. hopefully it might help me out a little.. however.. i wonder how specific the code can really get.

anyone happen to have a picture what this plug looks like?

[d1giPhux]

Okay, here are the plugs i can see.. which one might it be? :

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug1-1.jpg

are these supposed to be connected? looks like it:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug2-1.jpg

is this the plug? looks like there is 2 wires connected to this with tape at the end of them. also circled:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug3-1.jpg

edit: here are some better pics of the wires when i took the tape off em:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plugwires1-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plugwires2-1.jpg

the rest of the plugs:


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug4-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug5-1.jpg

[d1giPhux]

i found this after a google search. gonna look around for this plug tomorrow.. doesnt look like any of the ones i saw.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/absplug-1.jpg

also found the pdf it came out of :

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/abs/ab ... ontrol.pdf (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/abs/abs_sequence_control.pdf)

and yet another helpful pdf i found.:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/abs/MS ... A27506.pdf (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/abs/MSA5T0125A27506.pdf)

...still looking for the correct connector however.

[d1giPhux]

anyone? i'm not really sure which plug this is.. because the description i see says 2 holes on the top, 4 on the bottom for the plug.. i see nothing like this.

also, since i puled the fuse, the light went away.. wonder how long it will take to come back on? Everything is still malfunctioning properly :lol:

[d1giPhux]

anyone? *crickets*

[harrymaneuvers]

I just did this last weekend and its the plug pictured with the wires while they still have tape on them... From the way you posted your picture... you would put one of the ground wires in the hole at the top left. If you rotate that plug 180 degrees so the clip part is on the top, then the hole is on the bottom-right, like how the service manual shows. If you pulled the fuse (abs system dissengaged) and you still have a problem, then chances are it isnt anything electrically related to the ABS system. It would have to be mechanical because with your abs off, it simply acts like a regular hydraulic brake system.

Which abs fuse did you pull to dissengage your abs?????

[d1giPhux]

I pulled the fuse in the fuse-box near the pedals which also controls the cruise control.

Seems like the car works okay with the abs fuse pulled.. but maybe not.. because i remember it acting a bit weird..but that also could have been the wheel bearing problem.

I'm going to pull it again since I'm definitely losing braking power by having it connected.

Thanks for all the help.. for those who may want to know exactly which hole you plug the wire into.. check out the green circle below:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/plug3v2-1.jpg

I just pulled the following codes from my car:

11 - Start Code
22 - Front right wheel sensor open circuit.
56 - Wrong control module used or faulty G sensor
42 - Source Voltage is Low

Anyone care to help me figure out WHAT these may mean.. in dumbed down terms a bit.. or what i can look for / check out to further diagnose.

Thanks a bunch man for the help with the plug.. so simple.. yet hard to figure out.

[harrymaneuvers]

Can someone tell me the difference between throwing a code 23 (Front Left wheel sensor open circuit or input voltage too high) And code 24 (Front Left wheel sensor when no open circuit or speed signal input). Besides the description, what really is the difference?? Do they both mean that the sensor needs replacement????

If it is a speed sensor gone bad, does it generally cause the system to throw other codes like: 41 Faulty ABS control module or 56 Wrong control module used or faulty G Sensor???

[jey]

If I'm reading the FSM correctly 21, 23, 25, and 27 are never stored codes, but codes that show up while the problem is happening (car has to be in motion). On the other hand, 22, 24, 26, and 28 are stored.

[d1giPhux]

Anyone have any info about mine by any chance? or know what i should be looking for? I'm guessing maybe the abs sensor is bad on the front right.. but.. any other suggestions would be nice.

[Okin DaVanh]

so yeah, it will have to go to the shop. just trying to see if i can diagnose it a little more and save myself some cash.. or maybe figure some stuff out.

On a positive note:

If this is the route you'd opt to take, then bring it to the shop A.S.A.P. Brakes shouldn't be a guessing matter. Brakes and steering are on some unwritten rules of a safety Bible somewhere :smt023


Seriously, Keep trying to save yourself some money (I do the same thing) but you won't be saving anything if (God forbid) you get into an accident or create more damage. If your still struggling to diagnose it, it might be time to turn in the towel. IMHO.

[d1giPhux]

Well its going to the shop either way.. however.. if i help diagnose / identify more problems with the car.. it usually helps them in saving me money. Thats really what I'm trying to do. Its going to the shop.. very carefully tomorrow. Noticed a couple more things i wanted to ask about however.

After retrieving the ABS codes, the ABS light is still on, yet i cant seem to get it to flash the codes again. The neg terminal on my batt WAS disconnected accidentally for about 1 minute. Not sure what this may mean.

Also.. seems like my brakes arent too great with the abs fuse pulled.. this is what happens (taken from another thread i found online that has no answer):

When you press on the brakes, the 1st press on the brake pedal depresses a very far distance (past gas pedal). The car does slow down but not as impressive as the 2nd press, which has full braking power. Also after pumping the brake only once, the pedal will never depress down too far as it was before, untill the brake is used about 2-5 seconds later. The process then repeats itself with the first press being hardly any braking power, 2nd press 100% braking power.

Weird.. not sure what all of this has to do with anything.. but, just things I noticed.

[d1giPhux]

bad news. :smt013

About the right front bearing.. They said the 'ankle nut' was loose, and caused it to damage the bearing. The right rear bearing also needs replacement. (wtf is an 'ankle nut'?)

On the right front, they said more damage was caused and they need to replace some 8" bolt or something, and a new bushing which it goes through.

Anyone have any clue what they might be talking about? I got a complete breakdown of stuff.. except they wont tell me the part numbers and didnt explain much what i needed for parts. Bastards.

Here is a picture of what i THINK i should be looking at. Anyone care to point out what this 'bolt' and 'bushing' may be?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/frontaxle-1.jpg

Also..if anyone has a connect for subaru parts.. or can get them with a discount.. let me know. I want to try and do this with subaru parts.. however.. their estimate total was close to $900.. and NO WAY can i even afford close to that.

Here is some more stuff to look at:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/absdamage-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/cost1-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/cost2-1.jpg

[d1giPhux]

RedEvilWgn Helped me out a bit, and told me the following:

The bolt is called a 'Lateral Bolt'. It goes through a bushing (or 2 maybe?), and because it fuses to the bolt, thats why they told me they would need to replace the bushing and bolt as well. Anyone know what the bushings are called?

I found this link as well on rs25 that talks about the bolt and bushings.. if people want more info in the future!:

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f106/95168-h ... zed-2.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f106/95168-help-rear-lateral-link-bolts-seized-2.html)

Another awesome link:

DIY Lateral Link Bushing Swap/Install Tutorial:
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/show ... p?p=122909 (http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/showthread.php?p=122909)

[decke48]

ahh the "$30 bolt" that usally breaks, bushings are the rear outer laterial link bushings. what no one got a on car wheel bearing tool and a slide hammer? its a must for subaru rear wheel bearings

[d1giPhux]

Is the bolt called a 'rear lateral bolt' or 'lateral bolt', and so i need that, and the rear outer lateral link bushings. Hmm.. now just to find some part numbers. Also.. anyone have any clue why the subaru bearing are so much from subaru? i mean DAMN talk about markup. They want like 125/150.. and you can get the SAME timken bearings for like under $45/each. I'm pretty sure subarus bearings are made by timken as well.. since thats what i've found from all my research so far.

[d1giPhux]

Still looking for part numbers for the bolt, bushing, and any possible seals i may need to get this job done. Anyone?

edit:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/suspension-1.jpg

Which numbers would it be for the bolt / bushings on that pic above?

Here is the link to the diagram I'm looking at:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/u ... tration_1/ (http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_4/suspension_and_axle/front_suspension/illustration_1/)

Trying to figure out what 'bushings' and 'bolt' I need for this job. Anyone?

[greenspeed]

okay sweet I needed to do the abs check and your pics really hel but since i did the wrx swap i was worried the connectors might be different but i know they are there from your pics.

btw, running without abs isn't a "safety" issue you still stop, you may not always have control in wet conditions. some new cars are sold without it because of the cost involved.

that green conntector you posted is your test connector plug it in one and listen to every circuit go on and off it's pretty cool

wheel bearings on bd's are super annoying and can't be done without a press...just did my passenger front and it was a pita and almsot crakced my spindle in half

[d1giPhux]

your a bit behind.. i already figured out all the ABS junk. I

'm looking for someone to give a look at that last pic i posted and tell me which 'Bolt & Nut' I was talking about / told I would need to do this repair. That way I can get the part number from this page and try to get it from somewhere online cheaper, or a subaru dealer hookup. Thanks.

[greenspeed]

if there appears to be that much damage on the right front put the right front in the air unsupported by the suspension so lift it off the x member of the pinch weld and see if you can grab the wheel and move it around. Most likely it would be teh bolt for teh control arm if they are claiming it to be that long...there isn't any other bolt on the knuckle that even comes close to that length...

ps boss walked in and i skipped the reading after the 3rd post lol

[d1giPhux]

Okay..so I got a more clear message from them this morning.. its for the rear, and its the lateral bolt & bushing kit.. like was stated before. I just didn't know if it was for the front, or rear. So now I need to try and get the part numbers for this.. here is the pic.. anyone have a clue:

Rear Suspension:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/rear_suspension-1.jpg

[greenspeed]

the only 8" bolt is #29 and that makes sense if the bushings it sit inside go out it will cause the half shaft to shift and wear on the wheel bearing awkwardly

[birukun]

wheel bearings on bd's are super annoying and can't be done without a press...just did my passenger front and it was a pita and almsot crakced my spindle in half

You may be doing the bearing again soon - you are not supposed to use a standard press, there is too much force and you could end up tweaking the hub so it is no longer round. There is a measurement in the procedure for measuring the clearances.

http://endwrench.com/main.php?smPID=PHP ... &&RECID=75 (http://endwrench.com/main.php?smPID=PHP::article_detail.php&&RECID=75)

The article applies to the rear, but having done the front myself, I can see where the front can have a similar problem. Some of the racing folks over on NASIOC have had the same problem with using a press on their hubs instead of the Subaru kit.

[d1giPhux]

So the bushings would be #32 then? Also.. birukun, what you said about the bearing.. should i tell this other shop that.. or would they know? I don't think I'm going to be getting it done at the dealer.. and funny thing is.. I had the front right bearing replaced already once.. less than a year ago.. so I'm a bit pissed about it.

[birukun]

You may have a bad hub if you are replacing the bearing often. Any junkyards nearby where you can get another hub?

If they use a 'front wheel drive' bearing tool to do the bearing without removing the hub and using the press, you should be OK. If you look at the Subaru tool, it looks just like that.

I used a small press on my hub, but took pains to use a metal cylinder to make sure that the pressure was evenly distributed around the bearing opening. That may be an option if they don't have the other tool. edit: The tool is called a Hub Shark

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... eplacement (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787070&highlight=wheel+bearing+replacement)

[d1giPhux]

Thanks for the info. When they have everything off.. will they be able to tell if the hub is bad easily enough? I'm going to pass that info on.

Also.. found a better diagram of the lateral stuff:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/06/lateral_link-1.jpg

[d1giPhux]

Found a really awesome PDF on this that has covered most of what I have been researching and looking for.. all in one PDF. I re-hosted it here:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/abs/wheelbearing.pdf

Also another question: Should i have the shop replace the wheel bearing oil seals as well, or is this not necessary? When i spoke with one of the subaru places.. i asked if i would need to get any oil seals.. and they said no. I'm assuming this must be because their bearing comes as a kit or something with the seals?

[decke48]

yes you should replace the seals, since they only cost $3-4 and you need to take them out

[d1giPhux]

$3-4.. where? Most places i called wanted like 9.00 for the 2 front seals (inner, outer), and $30.00ish for the rear seals. However.. i just found a good deal on bearings + seals. NTN, which is the OEM subaru type. Does anyone recommend having the bearings re-packed with higher temp grease?

[decke48]

$3-4.. where? Most places i called wanted like 9.00 for the 2 front seals (inner, outer), and $30.00ish for the rear seals. However.. i just found a good deal on bearings + seals. NTN, which is the OEM subaru type. Does anyone recommend having the bearings re-packed with higher temp grease?
$3 seals, national brand. i bought them at bond auto, payed around $68 for all the seals and bearing for each rear bearing

[d1giPhux]

nice. yeah i paid $60 for bearing + seals. ntn OEM subaru brand stuff too =]

wondering if my hub is going to be screwed up however..

[d1giPhux]

its finally fixed!! woo hoo! After getting quoted $900 + from the subaru dealership.. i said screw that and did the following:

2 wheel bearings w/ oil seals - $60/each
tow truck to another shop: $85

got the other shop to install the bearings, also install a new ground cable which i picked up for $30 brand new (subaru shop wanted like $120 installed)... cost me $346 total for install costs of bearings, both front and rear, and the cable!!

how sick is that! I am totally a fan of my new shop here!