Anyone install aftermarket HID's ?

[GT Wagon]

I've seen a few cars rolling around town with HID's that I know did not come OEM. It gets me wondering how well it would work for me. My 97 GT seems to have a pretty sharp cutoff pattern so I'm wondering if the glare for oncoming drivers won't be all that bad.

Anyone have any experience with installing/running aftermarket HID's ?

[Wiscon_Mark]

HID kits are expensive, and I've never heard of anyone making the conversion...it could just be some of those blue tinted lights that throw off an illegal amount of light...

[GT Wagon]

There's tons of kids with "blue bulbs". I'm talking about the real HID's which throw off a ton of light. Typically they run about $300 on Ebay for a decent set.

[Perdue]

There's a couple impreza guy's on NASIOC that are running a HID conversion kit in their stock headlights. They replace the 9007 (maybe...900sumthin), but leave you without high beams. That can be solved with a set of driving lights mounted somewhere and wired as a high-beam.

[GT Wagon]

Since I have never had a car with OEM HID's, what do they (OEM setups) have for high beams ? I don't think HID's were meant to flash on/off . I'm willing to be a good set of HID's would mean you don't really need high beams.

[BAC5.2]

HID Kits are horrible. Period.

You are actually decreasing lighting performance by having excessive light in the absolute worst places.

I can give you the short version, and post a longer version of why you SHOULDN'T do this.

HID works by arcing electricity through gas to heat it and create light. Halogen lights work by having an element that heats up and creates light.

The two bulbs have very different output patterns (yes, bulb type can dictate output).

Halogen headlight housings are designed to place the light produced from a halogen light. An HID module produces more light in different areas, so a halogen housing will send the extra light in areas where light would not normally be placed.

Halogen headlights are designed to create a hot-spot far away with light tapering away from that point. This is so your eyes focus far away, allowing you to see ahead and anticipate upcoming obsticals. The farther you can see, the better you can anticipate things.

With an HID module, light is directed AROUND the hot-spot. Where you SHOULD be looking, you can actually not see nearly as well. The worst part of this, is light is dumped down, up, and everywhere else than where it should be. This does two things to your vision. First, it changes your focal points, and causes your eyes to look AROUND the hot-spot rather than at it. Second, the light directly in front of the car, draws your vision closer to the front of the car rather than outward, ahead of the car. It's like having fog-lights on with high-beams.

Looking closer to the car, you can't anticipate things nearly as well, and you put yourself in danger.

The absolute worst part about this? You don't really know it's happening. You associate MORE light (which HID modules WILL give you), with better vision. In fact, it's the opposite.

Plus, they blind people. And that sucks, and will probably get you flashed at.

[BAC5.2]

I did some looking through posts on various other boards, and found a few posts I made about HID vs. Halogen. I can post them if you'd like. Good info, and hopefully enough to persuade people to not use HID kit's.

Subaru spent thousands and thousands of dollars developing headlights. Why not make the best of the OEM system, rather than making it worse? It's cheaper to make the stock system perform well :). Heavy Duty Wiring Harness can make all of the difference.

All cars with a factory HID setup, they use Halogen high-beams.

A federal requirement of HID's are auto-leveling systems. They are required to have this, to prevent blinding of oncoming traffic. Aftermarket kits don't have this.

The only aftermarket kit I have really liked, was by Morette. I installed a set with a friend of mine on his WRX, and they worked fairly well.

[Legacy4Life]

I would have to agree with everything that BAC5.2 wrote.

I do a lot of driving, and around this time of year light is important.

I didn't like the light output from my stock lamps either. At first, I removed the stock fogs and replaced them with a set of driving lights and a set of fog lamps. They were the less expesive Optilux from Hella and they worked really well. But in the winter they kept busting up from snow hitting the hot lens. So after replacing all of them at least once I decided to try something else.

That's when I first looked into HID replacements for the halogen bulb. But after reading a lot and researching it on the internet I came to the conculsion that I wouldn't be doing myself any favors, and would probably just be wasting my money.

Instead I took the money and bought JDM headlights and fog lamps. They really work well. I now use LED bulbs for brakes and turn signals which dont' drag the battery voltage down when they're in use, keeping a higher voltage across the headlamps. I also plan to install a second set of relays with heavier wiring to the headlamps to again boost light output. Much better investment, and the JDM look is great!

Another advantage of the JDM lamps is the Low and High beams are individual bulbs and lens (H3 and H1) and you can adjust each of them independent of the others.

Hope that helps! I wish they would design a factory HID lamp though too. It would be nice!

[BAC5.2]

America stopped getting good Subaru lighting after the second generation Legacy. From 95 on, they were in a decline.

My Forester has pretty kick ass headlight, similar to my Legacy's lights. I am going to do my best to improve them further, though. I'd like to get yet another set of Hella 500's though, to round out the frontal lighting package.

Do you have a picture of the LED's in your tails? I haven't heard great things about them, and LED's can't really be seen from the side, so I'm curious about how they look in a Subaru. I've always felt that Subaru's have fairly well designed lights, and even the crappiest of their headlights (the 1989 to 1991 Legacy) are better than many current American designed lights.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I've found that out of all the cars I've driven, my subarus are the worst...2nd gen headlights were terrible, IMO...

[GT Wagon]

I've found that out of all the cars I've driven, my subarus are the worst...2nd gen headlights were terrible, IMO...

My 97 has better lights than the '91 which are totally yellowed over. Surprisingly my '95 Jetta lights are horrific. The Golf is fine, just the beam pattern on NA Jetta's is the worst. The German lamps are light years ahead.

[BAC5.2]

I've found that out of all the cars I've driven, my subarus are the worst...2nd gen headlights were terrible, IMO...

1st Generation is 1989 to 1991
2nd Generation is 1992 to 1994
3rd Generation is 1995 to 1999
4th Generation is 2000 to 2004
5th Generation is 2005 to ...

The 1992 to 1994 cars have significantly different body styles and qualify for different generation status.

I had a 3rd Gen, and yes, the lights were Horrible. My 94's lights are killer.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I don't consider post-facelift to be a whole new generation, Phil, neither do most of the members, so when we say 2nd gen, we mean 95-99...there were several differences between 95-96 and 97-99, but they're not a generation change...

But anyways, yes, they're horrid headlights...

[badbasser98]

The third gen's light are terrible... The highbeams have no elevation to them at all, it is just a narrow, flat beam... If you are in hilly terrain, forget about being able to see :? This is one thing I would very much like to change, somehow.


As for the HID's, I am pretty much in agreement with most here... If you want them, buy a car that has an OEM HID assembly. Yes they are pretty, yes they throw more light, but they are outragiously expensive, and could damage your car if not installed properly. HID conversion kits are a waste of money IMHO. SilverStars and EuroLites are decient bulbs. Although I prefer the SilverStars. ;-)

-BB98

[BAC5.2]

What defines a generation change? Body style change?

As far as I am concerned the 89 to 91 Legacy is a 1st Gen, and the 92 to 94 is a 2nd gen. But that's because I call it by body-style. 89-91 is a different body style than the 92-94. More than half of the body panels on the car are different between the years, front and rear ends are both different, as is the profile. Just how I see it in my eyes.

I have no problem referring to the 89 to 94 Legacy as 1st Gen and 95 to 99 as 2nd gen, if that really is the preferred lingo. Doesn't bother me one bit :)

No big deal.

[Speedwagon]

What defines a generation change? Body style change?

As far as I am concerned the 89 to 91 Legacy is a 1st Gen, and the 92 to 94 is a 2nd gen. But that's because I call it by body-style. 89-91 is a different body style than the 92-94. More than half of the body panels on the car are different between the years, front and rear ends are both different, as is the profile. Just how I see it in my eyes.

I have no problem referring to the 89 to 94 Legacy as 1st Gen and 95 to 99 as 2nd gen, if that really is the preferred lingo. Doesn't bother me one bit :)

No big deal.

What the crap are you talking about Phil? The 1st facelift car(91) doesn't look different at all, except for the hoodline/headlights. Everything else(well, at least on a wagon) is the same!

To be truthful, the chassis didn't change from '89-99 really. Besides for which, Subaru classifies the generations by the body code(and pretty much the rest of the world)

BC/BF
BD/BG
BE/BH

So ha! I just had to rag on you from 3k miles away. :-D

[Wiscon_Mark]

we say BD/BK around here ;)

[BAC5.2]

What defines a generation change? Body style change?

As far as I am concerned the 89 to 91 Legacy is a 1st Gen, and the 92 to 94 is a 2nd gen. But that's because I call it by body-style. 89-91 is a different body style than the 92-94. More than half of the body panels on the car are different between the years, front and rear ends are both different, as is the profile. Just how I see it in my eyes.

I have no problem referring to the 89 to 94 Legacy as 1st Gen and 95 to 99 as 2nd gen, if that really is the preferred lingo. Doesn't bother me one bit :)

No big deal.


What the crap are you talking about Phil? The 1st facelift car(91) doesn't look different at all, except for the hoodline/headlights. Everything else(well, at least on a wagon) is the same!

To be truthful, the chassis didn't change from '89-99 really. Besides for which, Subaru classifies the generations by the body code(and pretty much the rest of the world)

BC/BF
BD/BG
BE/BH

So ha! I just had to rag on you from 3k miles away. :-D

Speedwagon? Mitchell? Good lord it's been a long time since I've seen you!

The change from 91 to 92 changed the front end and the rear end (making a noticeable difference in the profile of the car).

It was a restyle, and Subaru has never done a mid-year total restyle without changing "generations".

Like you said, chassis didn't change until 99-2000. So the progression through the generations is body change, right? The body changed from 91 to 92.

It doesn't really matter. I'm just givin everyone a hard time. If the majority classifies the 95-99 as a second gen, then that's fine and I'll refer to it as such.

[Speedwagon]

Speedwagon? Mitchell? Good lord it's been a long time since I've seen you!

The change from 91 to 92 changed the front end and the rear end (making a noticeable difference in the profile of the car).

It was a restyle, and Subaru has never done a mid-year total restyle without changing "generations".

Like you said, chassis didn't change until 99-2000. So the progression through the generations is body change, right? The body changed from 91 to 92.

It doesn't really matter. I'm just givin everyone a hard time. If the majority classifies the 95-99 as a second gen, then that's fine and I'll refer to it as such.

Yea, it's me.

But by your standard, you should have put a generation change in 96/97, because they changed the front end on that too. So :P

I just don't see where you are coming from, on the car looking totally different from 91-92. I just don't see it. I think the lines are the same, not to mention the inside didn't change.

I just don't see what you are talking about here.

[badbasser98]

we say BD/BK around here ;)

Well, that's what you say ;-)

I have always said BD/BG :lol:

[BAC5.2]

The 96/97 body style change was barely noticeable. The 91/92 change was Significant.

Even still, it's no big deal.

[Wiscon_Mark]

The 96/97 body style change was barely noticeable. The 91/92 change was Significant.

Even still, it's no big deal.

I disagree, but I think its a "you have to own one to understand" type thing...you're more used to 1st gens (being the Qua-zi-mod-o on LCO that you are) while I'm more used to 2nd gens...so I see a bigger difference in 2nd gens while you see a bigger difference in 1st gens...

Badbasser- you're wrong though...doesn't that bother you? ;)

[BAC5.2]

I have 2 BC's, and I had a BD.

The Body structure of the 91 is even different than the 92-94! The headlight buckets are totally different. At least all BD hoods are interchangeable with the stock headlights, right? The hood on the 91 has a different SHAPE than the 92-94....

http://www.thawa.net/bac52/91SS/91SS%20005%20small.jpg

http://www.thawa.net/bac52/91SS/91SS%20007%20small.jpg

http://www.thawa.net/bac52/WRX%20TMIC/Aggro2%20Small.jpg

For a BD/BK, a hood could be for 95 to 99, right? For the BC, it would either be for the 89-91 or for the 92-94. They aren't interchangeable even if you wanted to. You'd have to change a bunch of other stuff to go along with it.

[Wiscon_Mark]

enh, there's still too many similarities to call it a different generation...

whatever, its not that big of a deal, I just find it interesting :)

[bgwagon]

they seel HID kits over here for like 350-360 and dude do they ROCK....my brother put a set on his BH and they look amazing....but i was going to put a set into mine...but it will definately be worth the wait until i get the JDM projectors...until then i've got Hyper Yellows and man do they cut thru fog and snow like a champ!!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2005/12/Image023-1.jpg

[Wiscon_Mark]

hey, nice backlit badge :D

[95LegacySTI]

Between 91-92 is just a facelift not a body change, just like 95-97, facelift, no body change, they do look different but not different like 94-95 or 99-00, those are body changes

[gator gt]

IIRC, Fibuz installed some BMW HID ballasts onto his BE.

FIBUZ! where are you?

GGT

[fibuz]

IIRC, Fibuz installed some BMW HID ballasts onto his BE.

FIBUZ! where are you?

GGT

Yessum...if I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would though. Light output was still not directed well enough, and to uninstall woulda been a PITA.

Bottom line, OEM HID products only in my opinion...UNLESS you have halogen projectors(BL/BP), then it may be worth tossing in some HID kit.

fibuz