Trying to decide on my next UHP Summer tire 17x8

[winston856]

So I've got 17x8 rota's that have 225/45/17 Falken Ziex 912 all season tires which are almost dead.

On my old 16" WRX wheels I ran Falken FK452's and they were a good tire I found. They were my first set so I had nothing to compare them too but they wore great and were pretty sticky with great wet traction.

Now I'm stuck between the Falken FK452's, Sumitomo HTR Z III's, and the Dunlop Direzza DZ101's.

I got the 205/55/16 452's for $420 mounted and installed through a local Tire Factory, so I'm going to call and get prices on all these. Not looking to spend more than the FK452's cost unless it's REALLY worth it.

So with that said, what do you think? My new size is going to be 235/40/17 to better fit my 8" rims. Yes my fenders are rolled and I'm lowered about an inch with AGX's and WL control springs. Very little rubbing only on hard corners + bumps.

[Huffer]

How much are you looking to spend?

[winston856]

Not much more than $400, no more than $500.

[Huffer]

$400-$500 for a full set of 4? So $100-$125 per tire?

See if this link works for you:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearc ... &x=67&y=10 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=225%2F&ratio=45&diameter=17&x=67&y=10)

[winston856]

Well it looks like I might have to stretch over $500 a bit but it's alright.

Prices are mounted balanced and installed with a warranty from my local tire shop I've been using for years.

In the 235/40 sizing:

Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - $165/tire

Falken FK452 - $139/tire

Sumitomo HTR Z III - N/a (they don't make that tire in this size.)

In the 235/45 sizing:

Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - $140/tire

Falken FK452 - $125/tire

Sumitomo HTR Z III - $120/tire

Now for the math part of it:


Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revs/Mile Difference
225/45-17 4.0in 12.5in 25.0in 78.5in 808 0.0%
235/45-17 4.2in 12.7in 25.3in 79.6in 796 1.4%
235/40-17 3.7in 12.2in 24.4in 76.7in 827 -2.3%

225/45/17 is my "stock" size, I wanted to do the 235/40 for the gearing advantage, however the prices are a good bit higher. Using the dunlop's as an example, if I went with the 45 A/R I would save $100 vs. the 40 A/R.

I also live out in the sticks and while the highway and town is in good condition, the same can't be said for the backroads I frequent. It seems there are a lot of pluses to staying with the 45 A/R.

1. More protection for the rim

2. Cheaper than the 40 counterparts

3. Speedo stays pretty much the same, ~1MPH is within the error margin.

Now the deal is which tire to get, the Sumitomo's apparently are designed especially for negative camber which I have my suspension setup for now, the Dunlop's are supposed to be good but they come in 3rd or 4th in the tireracks testing whereas the sumi's come in 1st.

The FK452's are good but I already tried them, I'm thinking of going to sumi's but am still deciding.

[Airgne]

go dunlop direzza. ive had 3 sets and i havent found a better summer tire. got mine for 450 installed with lifetime balance and rotation.

[winston856]

Well after some reading on NASIOC, the dunlop DZ101 don't do that well in the wet apparently and me living in Oregon, well that won't work. Plus they're the most expensive.

I've had the falkens and want to try and new tire. The HTR Z III's are getting rave reviews everywhere and they are priced really nice. It's too bad they don't make a 235/40/17 size.

I'm probably going to get the 235/45/17 sizing then.

I had a thought though, seeing as I have 8 inch wide rims, I could fit a 245 on there very comfortably. If I got the 245/40/17 I wonder how it would fit on my car. My fenders are rolled and the front is lowered just less than an inch from stock.

I know they would be wider but they would also be shorter so perhaps that would keep them away from the fender. What do you think?

[rudgers73]

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have the Sumitomos and they kick serious ass. I'm having my best autocross season because of them. If you can find a size that will fit your needs, I would seriously recommend them.

PS I had trouble fitting anything wider than a 215 on my fronts without rubbing on my 99 BD. Is it my offset on my 17x7.5 rota SDR's that's limiting me? I settled for 215s just for fear of damaging them on hard corners and elevation changes... I ditched my last tires because the rubbing sounded so terrible in the front (225/45's)

[Airgne]

haha. whatever dumbass's over on nasioc said that the dunlops dont do good in wet have obiously never had them. i have had 2 set in washington now in the last 1 1/2yr. on set 205/55/16 and the other 235/45/17. bot sets are doing awsome. is it good in the rain when you cant really see the cars behind you because the tires are kicking out all the water from under them? :smt017

also had one set while i was in japan 205/50/16 front 225/50/16 rear. the fronts were my drift tires for when it rained because the fronts grabed so much.

so once again i say they are awsome and are the best tire for your buck you can get.

[winston856]

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have the Sumitomos and they kick serious ass. I'm having my best autocross season because of them. If you can find a size that will fit your needs, I would seriously recommend them.

PS I had trouble fitting anything wider than a 215 on my fronts without rubbing on my 99 BD. Is it my offset on my 17x7.5 rota SDR's that's limiting me? I settled for 215s just for fear of damaging them on hard corners and elevation changes... I ditched my last tires because the rubbing sounded so terrible in the front (225/45's)

No no no no no.

Do you have your fenders rolled? My 225/45's were getting cut up on moderately aggressive turns, I got them rolled and now they make ZERO contact with the fenders even on the hardest turns.

My rims are 17x8" ET48 so your wheels should be even easier to clear than mine. The key is fender rolling and also some negative camber doesn't hurt. I'm at -1.0F/-0.5R

[winston856]

haha. whatever dumbass's over on nasioc said that the dunlops dont do good in wet have obiously never had them. i have had 2 set in washington now in the last 1 1/2yr. on set 205/55/16 and the other 235/45/17. bot sets are doing awsome. is it good in the rain when you cant really see the cars behind you because the tires are kicking out all the water from under them? :smt017

also had one set while i was in japan 205/50/16 front 225/50/16 rear. the fronts were my drift tires for when it rained because the fronts grabed so much.

so once again i say they are awsome and are the best tire for your buck you can get.

Yeah, not trying to discredit you but both reviews of this tire at the tirerack had the tire come in last place in 2006 and 2007. Tirerack said they want to see wet grip improved by a lot and some more dry grip as well, despite giving them about a 7/10 in wet performance :-?

The jist of the NASIOC reviews say that it's a good tire in the dry and ok in the wet. Of course when it wore down it was pretty good in the dry and crappy in the wet; most tires are like that aren't they? :smile:

What different tires have you compared them too? Because the vibe I'm getting is these things are not that great. In my situation I don't have a lot of money to waste on "so-so" tires. If I had the scratch I wouldn't care but I need to get some good ones.

I'm curious as to why the general consensus are that they are not that great, probably because it's true? I mean if NASIOC is saying they're bad that's one thing, if the tirerack is also saying they're bad then it's starting to pain a clearer picture. You seem to like them a lot. Are they paying you off? :lol: :razz:

[rougeben83]

I don't know, the current trend in summer UHP tires nowadays seem to emphasize more dry performance than wet...not saying that in wet they will suck, as most of these tires in the right hands are more than capable of handling a heavy downpour, but you will always give up a bit of performance in the wet. After all, you can't have a much hydroplaning resistance when you have treadblocks optimized to get the most rubber connected to the road at all times.

I think the direzzas are good for tires in your price range. I would also suggest goodyear F1 gsd3's, very well known for its wet performance, but theyre fairly expensive when new, and their dry performance isn't as good as newer competitor models...

[Airgne]

here are the tires i have had before these. toyo proxis, falken azneis, michilen primacy hp, and bridgestone potenza. all those tire blew ass to the dunlops. when i can take a turn 25mph faster in the rain than with any of those others, i think there wet performance is great.

[jey]

here are the tires i have had before these. toyo proxis, falken azneis, michilen primacy hp, and bridgestone potenza. all those tire blew ass to the dunlops. when i can take a turn 25mph faster in the rain than with any of those others, i think there wet performance is great.

Yeah Azenis are not known for wet performance - I can imagine the Dunlops being significantly better than all those tires. Which Potenza? Which Proxes? Bridgestone has slapped Potenza on everything from the RE-11s to crappy T-rated all-seasons. Same with Toyo...

Yeah my Kumho MXs, which are not know for their wet performance either, are still way better in the rain and standing water than any all-season I have used.

To the OP, any of those tires you are chosing from are far better than the Zeix - I'd pick the one that fits your budget and you should be happy.

[Huffer]

These don't fall into your price range in that size spec, but my 215/45/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s were incredibly hard to beat in the wet, or dry. Good sidewall stiffness too.

[Airgne]

here are the tires i have had before these. toyo proxis, falken azneis, michilen primacy hp, and bridgestone potenza. all those tire blew ass to the dunlops. when i can take a turn 25mph faster in the rain than with any of those others, i think there wet performance is great.

Yeah Azenis are not known for wet performance - I can imagine the Dunlops being significantly better than all those tires. Which Potenza? Which Proxes? Bridgestone has slapped Potenza on everything from the RE-11s to crappy T-rated all-seasons. Same with Toyo...

azenis st-115, Potenza S-03, proxes 4

remember i did drift on most of these tires.

[rudgers73]

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have the Sumitomos and they kick serious ass. I'm having my best autocross season because of them. If you can find a size that will fit your needs, I would seriously recommend them.

PS I had trouble fitting anything wider than a 215 on my fronts without rubbing on my 99 BD. Is it my offset on my 17x7.5 rota SDR's that's limiting me? I settled for 215s just for fear of damaging them on hard corners and elevation changes... I ditched my last tires because the rubbing sounded so terrible in the front (225/45's)

No no no no no.

Do you have your fenders rolled? My 225/45's were getting cut up on moderately aggressive turns, I got them rolled and now they make ZERO contact with the fenders even on the hardest turns.

My rims are 17x8" ET48 so your wheels should be even easier to clear than mine. The key is fender rolling and also some negative camber doesn't hurt. I'm at -1.0F/-0.5R

I rolled my rears, but not my fronts. The rears were fine afterward. I wanted to leave the plastic crap in the wheel well in the front and I wasn't seeing how I was going to be able to roll them without taking it out and not being able to put it back in well. Plus I have stock springs so the fronts were rubbing just from having the tires turned hard and the suspension bottoming out. I put different struts in last year, but have stayed with the 215s. I would eventually like to lower my car a touch, but, again, I don't know about clearance with me slamming my car all over the place at autocross.

[eekay]

Can't really remember the exact price, but I paid roughly $180 USD for my Yokohama S-Drives and I absolutely love them. The wear is great and they are some of the best summer tires for a daily driver I've ever had. So, I would recommend those. As far as the tires you're deciding about, I've never used any of them. :( Sorry.

[eekay]

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have the Sumitomos and they kick serious ass. I'm having my best autocross season because of them. If you can find a size that will fit your needs, I would seriously recommend them.

PS I had trouble fitting anything wider than a 215 on my fronts without rubbing on my 99 BD. Is it my offset on my 17x7.5 rota SDR's that's limiting me? I settled for 215s just for fear of damaging them on hard corners and elevation changes... I ditched my last tires because the rubbing sounded so terrible in the front (225/45's)

No no no no no.

Do you have your fenders rolled? My 225/45's were getting cut up on moderately aggressive turns, I got them rolled and now they make ZERO contact with the fenders even on the hardest turns.

My rims are 17x8" ET48 so your wheels should be even easier to clear than mine. The key is fender rolling and also some negative camber doesn't hurt. I'm at -1.0F/-0.5R

I rolled my rears, but not my fronts. The rears were fine afterward. I wanted to leave the plastic crap in the wheel well in the front and I wasn't seeing how I was going to be able to roll them without taking it out and not being able to put it back in well. Plus I have stock springs so the fronts were rubbing just from having the tires turned hard and the suspension bottoming out. I put different struts in last year, but have stayed with the 215s. I would eventually like to lower my car a touch, but, again, I don't know about clearance with me slamming my car all over the place at autocross.

You could always grab some coilovers with adjustable camber plates and use the camber bolts in the rear. This should allow you to have your car about as low as you want. Mine is pretty damn low right now (track/auto-x setup) and I never, ever, ever rub at all. Granted, I'm running 215/45/17's so they aren't all that big... Also, I wouldn't worry about wheel well liner (if that's what you meant by the "plastic thing") as it will still sit pretty well inside there after a front fender roll. There might be a very slight gab between the inner edge of the fender and the liner, but nothing to be concerned with.

[winston856]

Thanks for all the feedback you guys.

First off I have to say that I screwed up!

I have 215/45/17 not 225/45/17 on my rota's right now.

Now I'm concerned. Right now I've got about 8.4" of tread, 225's are 8.8" and 235 are 9.25" of tread.

I wonder if I should do the jump up to 235's or bump to 225's and see how they fit?

This puts a new spin on things.

[winston856]

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have the Sumitomos and they kick serious ass. I'm having my best autocross season because of them. If you can find a size that will fit your needs, I would seriously recommend them.

PS I had trouble fitting anything wider than a 215 on my fronts without rubbing on my 99 BD. Is it my offset on my 17x7.5 rota SDR's that's limiting me? I settled for 215s just for fear of damaging them on hard corners and elevation changes... I ditched my last tires because the rubbing sounded so terrible in the front (225/45's)

No no no no no.

Do you have your fenders rolled? My 225/45's were getting cut up on moderately aggressive turns, I got them rolled and now they make ZERO contact with the fenders even on the hardest turns.

My rims are 17x8" ET48 so your wheels should be even easier to clear than mine. The key is fender rolling and also some negative camber doesn't hurt. I'm at -1.0F/-0.5R

I rolled my rears, but not my fronts. The rears were fine afterward. I wanted to leave the plastic crap in the wheel well in the front and I wasn't seeing how I was going to be able to roll them without taking it out and not being able to put it back in well. Plus I have stock springs so the fronts were rubbing just from having the tires turned hard and the suspension bottoming out. I put different struts in last year, but have stayed with the 215s. I would eventually like to lower my car a touch, but, again, I don't know about clearance with me slamming my car all over the place at autocross.

First off I screwed up! I have 215/45's right now so that puts me in your boat.

Second off, the plastic wheel well liner can be cut back. That's what we did. I know it sits in the part of the fender that you roll and when you're done it doesn't quite fit. You just take your razor knife and slice it along the path of the tire, just chop that section off and it's all good! It cuts quite easily. We did this after the fenders were rolled. You can just pull it out and kind of work it out of the way until you're done, then cut it to fit :smile:

Stock suspension is a little mushy, mine was old so it was worse. My suggestion to kill some body roll is swaybars. If you can get some KYB AGX's, they are quite the help as well.

[winston856]

I think I'm going to go with a 225/45 size instead of a 235/40 or 45.

I'll go from 215 to 225 then see how that goes then if the 225's are cool the next set I'll go will be 235.

I'd rather just go up 1 size at a time rather than jump up a couple sizes and have problems.

What do you think about 225/45 vs. 225/40 for the gearing advantage?

[ouch1011]

I'm running an old set of 235-40-18s on 18x7.5" +45mm wheels I had left over from my last car. They barely fit. Barely. The clearance is so tight between the strut and the tire in the back that I'm reasonably sure that if the tires were new and not the nearly worn out ones I have on there now, they would rub. The tire rubbed terribly on the rear fender under anything other than grandma-style cornering. I trimmed off as much of the lip on the rear fender as I could without making it visible from outside the car, and it is much better, but it seems like now hitting a bump under very hard cornering will cause it to rub, but not on the fender, but actually on the small step just behind the fender in the wheel well. Now gramted, my suspension is pretty worn out so it probably moves a lot more than good suspension, but its also at stock ride height.

I think the wheel size is fine for this application, but I would go with 225-40-18s or 225-45-18s. But, I don't plan on keeping these wheels on this car (I'm going with 17s that will clear the STI Brembos, ideally 04 STI wheels).

Also FWIW, I've had 3 different styles of tires. BF Goodrich g-force T/A KDW, Falken FK452, and Toyo Proxes FZ4. I would rate them kind of like this.

1. BF Goodrich KDW
.....
.....
2. Falken FK452s
.....
.....
.....
.....
.....
.....
.....
100. Toyo Proxes FZ4

The BF Goodriches were by far the best tires for wet/dry driving. The Falkens still offered very good wet/dry traction, but certainly not as good as the BF Goodrich. The Toyos sucked ass, I regretted buying those the minute I went for a hard drive. They had horrible traction under any circumstance. They chunked badly under hard driving and they tended to hydroplane too easy in the rain. The BF Goodrich and Falken tires had excellent grip and even had decent tread life, but they are pretty loud, especially the BF Goodrich.

[rougeben83]

too bad you can't fit a 235, there's 235/40/17 goodyear f1's on ebay right now for $260 shipped FOR A SET OF FOUR.

[winston856]

I probably could fit 235's but I want to work my way up the sizes 1 by 1 to see how they fit.

[jamal]

235s shouldn't be too hard to fit. I have tons and tons of room with 225s, but I'm also on a +53 wheel and have quite a bit of camber (-2.5f, -1.5r)