BD: Clutch / Lightweight Flywheel / Crank pulley question! [Archive]

d1giPhux

09-09-2009, 08:00 AM

So I'm looking into possibly doing a new clutch / flywheel / throw out bearing soon.. and looking for some opinions here. I wanted to go with a 'stage 2' clutch kit, just because i like to play with my car quite a bit. However.. it seems exedy does not make a clutch kit for this car in 'stage 2' spec. Anyone ever seen one?

Also, since I will need to replace the flywheel no doubt, I was wondering what the advantages of a lightweight flywheel would be? Are there any downsides to getting one? Would it wear out anything quicker, or possibly lead to other things breaking as well?

Any more info anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. So far I have found the following, and think they are exactly what I will need to get this done for my car. Let me know if you think otherwise:

Exedy 15801 (Clutch Kit):

http://www.exedyusa.com/15801

Exedy FF02 (Lightweight Flywheel):

http://www.exedyusa.com/race/FF02

What should I expect to pay for these on a 'good' price range?

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edit:

Anything else I should do while I'm in there?

I'm assuming I will need to do the rear main seal, as well as new exhaust gaskets, and what about re-sealing the piston pin access cover gasket? I need part numbers!

So Far I have found the the following.. not sure if they are correct:

Rear Main Seal - 806786040

Exhaust Manifold Gasket (2) - 44022AA020 or 44011AC030

Exhaust Donut Gasket - 44011AC000

Piston Pin Access Cover Gasket - ??? I NEED THIS ONE ??

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Thanks again!

jey

09-09-2009, 09:13 AM

I have exactly that clutch and flywheel on my car and love it.

Currently at 6 psi the clutch isn't complaining one bit. Yet it drives just like a stock clutch.

Good flywheel option too. It's a one-piece unit with the weight much better distributed than my old Fidanza flywheel. Revs come much quicker, makes it easier/faster to rev match, and even when you fail to rev match there is a lot less jerking around due to the lighter components.

d1giPhux

09-09-2009, 10:03 AM

its not going to make a difference or problem that I would have both the lightweight crank pulley / flywheel correct? Also.. is your car the 2.5 I'm assuming? Weird I can't seem to find any stage 2 clutch kits for the car.. but, I bet this one would be good enough anyways. Not like I'm making any incredible power. :lol:

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 08:10 AM

Anyone know the answer to the above question about running lightweight flywheel + crank pulley?

Also about the 'Piston Pin Access Cover Gasket'.. i was told most of the time people just use permatex ultra grey.. anyone know if this is true or not? I was also told that it may be a good idea to pick up a spare cover (part #??) as they sometimes get mangled.

Thanks again.

jey

09-10-2009, 12:05 PM

Anyone know the answer to the above question about running lightweight flywheel + crank pulley?

If it creates a problem just put the stock crank pully back on. LW flywheel > LW crank pulley

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 01:20 PM

Well the lightweight crank pulley is already on there.. and god knows where my 5lb brick went to! Do you think it would cause a problem.. or no?

Okay.. so now i'm getting a bit worried that i bought a flywheel for no reason.. since I have a lightweight crank pulley. Hmm.. which is better to have if you can only have one? Dammit.. i hate when i do stupid shit like that. I'm reading all these suby pages now saying its a bad idea.. blah blah.

patrack92314

09-10-2009, 02:22 PM

ok this might have been answered in the above posts but i didn't want to read them all sorry. but if ur going to lighten the fly wheel and clutch . them u have to lighten the front pulleys too so the engine is still balanced .

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 02:27 PM

Wow.. wait a minute here. I'm getting a bit confused. I have read in several places that you do NOT want to run a Lightweight crank pulley / Lightweight flywheel at the same time.

Currently I am running a lightweight crank pulley.. which is why i was asking about the flywheel.. because I'm a bit concerned about it.

Huffer

09-10-2009, 02:30 PM

Pick up a used stock crank pulley. $25

If you get a misfire code when the LW flywheel is installed, swap back to the stock crank pulley. If no problems, drive.

LW Fly gives greater improvements than LW crank - as has been said before.

Stop overthinking it, it's not worth your time or stress.

Huffer

09-10-2009, 02:30 PM

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 02:39 PM

patrack92314

09-10-2009, 02:41 PM

well wat i have learned is that if u want to run a light wieght fly wheel then u should lighten the front of ur engine as well. light the front pulleys . and that was front a subaru master tech .

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 02:50 PM

I dunno bout that man.. cause everywhere ive read so far says that it makes it harder to keep the RPMS up and such, and while downshifting the rpms can drop out real quick.. leading to stalling.. or other such stuff. But.. I have NO clue.. hence why I'm asking.

Huffer

09-10-2009, 03:19 PM

I think i got my 5lb beast laying around somewhere.. dammit.. or maybe not. I might have threw that POS out. ARGH! Alright.. so looks like I will be going with the LW FLY, and stock pulley then. Ugh.. i hate how the stock pulley looks though.. its uuuugly.

Anyone here running both LW Crank Pulley and LW FLY @ the same time here?

There are some people - but this is a bit like the PO420 threads - some cars can handle it, others can't. No-one knows why.

Just keep the stock pulley around if you need to swap it on - it takes 10mins to do.

d1giPhux

09-10-2009, 04:47 PM

:smt005

Does anyone make a 'middle weight' crank pulley?

Also.. can anyone explain WHY this would be bad to run the car with the 2 lightweight parts? I sort of understand...

rougeben83

09-11-2009, 01:57 AM

:smt005

Does anyone make a 'middle weight' crank pulley?

Also.. can anyone explain WHY this would be bad to run the car with the 2 lightweight parts? I sort of understand...

it's not mechanically bad perse, its the ECU freaking out that the revs go down too fast, and it throws a misfire code. At least thats how it works on the WRX ecus.

d1giPhux

09-11-2009, 07:46 AM

Okay.. so driving it around with both lightweight parts initially wont be bad for the engine itself then correct? That way I can at least test it out and see what its like. Hopefully I'm not getting in over my head with this.. cause its not something I can reverse very easily... or without spending a bunch more money.

Not sure if this is true or not.. but yesterday I was speaking with my friend, and he suggested i may LOSE low end torque doing this mod because the flywheel doesn't have the weight inertia to transfer the torque through.. since its lightweight. It will however spin up faster, but just wont have as much torque.

Can anyone tell me WHAT exactly I can expect from this? I don't want to make it a pain in the ass to drive.. as it IS my everyday daily driver...not a race or track car.

Is it going to make driving the car around not smooth feeling? Because really.. thats what I'm going for.. as smooth as possible. No jerking around, no jumping rpms.. etc.. just some nice classy ride with a bit of fun =]

Reason

09-11-2009, 08:13 AM

If you do a lighten flywheel and pulley you will pretty much have to learn how to drive your car. I know it's easy to stall a car with a lighten flywheel if you arent use to it or never drove a car with one.

jey

09-11-2009, 08:46 AM

well wat i have learned is that if u want to run a light wieght fly wheel then u should lighten the front of ur engine as well. light the front pulleys . and that was front a subaru master tech .

I ran a 9.5 lb flywheel with a stock crank pulley for 74k miles. It was fine.

Like I already said it makes it easier to drive smoothly. Anyone who knows how to drive a stick shift car hopped in my car and was able to drive around without stalling. Most loved the sporty feel of the revs responding so well to throttle inputs.

The only thing I had to "learn" was how crappy the car was before with the heavy flywheel.

d1giPhux

09-11-2009, 08:48 AM

Hm. I'm really starting to wonder if this is a good idea for a daily driver.. probably is not from what I'm reading. Not really sure.. dammit.. wish I knew someone with one in their car so I could drive it. I'm basically trying to just get the smoothest ride possible, I don't want to have to dick around much with rev matching.. etc.. etc. Because really.. thats useless to me in traffic.

Does exedy make a good stock flywheel for our cars? Anyone know the part number? I found a few.. but not sure which one id want to go with if i did go that route.

I think having a lightweight flywheel would be awesome.. but not if its going to be a hassle to drive. I would get use to it.. but even so.. I don't want to be attracting a lot of attention with my car.. etc.. etc having the rpm's running to high and making all sorts of noise and shit..

I dunno, right now.. i'm pretty up in the air about this :S

edit: Okay.. so I'm guessing either way I will have to go back to the stock crank pulley if i do this.. I just hope it won't make driving the car around an annoyance, or attract too much attention (see worrying above).

Am i going to lose low end torque however? And also.. you say it was really smooth on your car.. but your also running a turbo car.. not N/A like me.. will this make a difference?

jey

09-11-2009, 08:53 AM

If you want the smoothest ride possible fix the nut behind the wheel first. If you aren't rev matching you aren't smooth, unless you are spending a lot of time slipping clutch. And even if you slip clutch instead of rev match, it's much smoother with my Exedy flywheel. (Let me brother-in-law who doesn't rev match drive the car, was surprised how little jerking around there was when he dumped the clutch in 2nd gear on a downshift from 5th, oy...)

The amount of noise and commotion you generate while shifting depends on you the driver, and if you are already making commotion while shifting that's not a flywheel problem.

I ran the lightweight flywheel 2 years on the stock EJ22 before I went turbo. Best mod I ever did to the EJ22.

d1giPhux

09-11-2009, 09:06 AM

Alright.. that makes me feel a little better bout it. Screw it.. i think i'll give it a shot. Now i just have to pick up a stock crank pulley on the cheap.. since I stupidly threw mine out thinking i would never need it again. :smt011 I wish i could get an anodized stock crank pulley somewhere.. the damn stock one is so ugly.

I think i will be able to adjust to it fine.. what i don't want is to attract a lot of attention if the rpm's always have to be high and such. Also.... when downshifting.. how much quicker DOES it downshift? Can that be bad for the engine.. or not so much?

Thanks for all the help guys =]

jey

09-11-2009, 09:14 AM

The flywheel doesn't change the gearing or anything to do with how high the rpms are. Are you confusing this with performance clutches that require higher rpms to launch??

Downshifts are now so fast that it actually slightly annoys me to drive a regular vehicle. I haven't sat there with a stopwatch to quantify it, but it's a big difference. And the flywheel doesn't downshift, YOU downshift - so you can still do it as slowly as you have been doing it before :)

d1giPhux

09-11-2009, 09:26 AM

Yeah i might have been confusing it with performance clutch.. had one in a crx once.. my god.. talk about needing to rev the piss outta it, then it was like stomping on a brick every time you had to shift. haha. The car needed it though because of the engine.. well.. maybe not that extreme.

Basically.. if i put this flywheel in, and any idiot can drive my car (not that i would let them).. i would be cool with it. Just want to keep it somewhat close to 'stock'.. but at the same time.. not really. I want the option to BE there when i want to use it.. but not constantly have to be monitored and thought about while using it. I'm sure I will get use to it quickly myself anyways.

Huffer

09-11-2009, 09:51 AM

Q. You want an easy to drive daily driver with a little more pep - right?
A. Go with the Exedy LW flywheel, and replace the crank pulley with a stock item IF you experience a misfire code.

Once again, you over complicate things and get too worked up about this. This isn't that hard!

d1giPhux

09-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Thats what i'm gonna do.. just go with the flywheel.. and then if its a pain in the ass to drive with the lightweight pulley.. put the stock back on (once i get another one).

I'm just being cautious.. because I cant really afford to damage this car.. as it IS my daily driver.

anothernord

09-12-2009, 02:26 AM

I found that after my < 1 lb crank pulley, the car required a different technique when going from a stop; just a little more gas and finer clutch release. I'm totally used to it now though.

Kartboy does make a "middle weight" crank pulley. It's about half the weight of the stock pulley, and they claim is is less likely to cause a misfire code.

d1giPhux

09-12-2009, 06:10 PM

Nice.. any clue where i can obtain one or get more info about it? Sounds promising!

anothernord

09-13-2009, 12:09 AM

Nice.. any clue where i can obtain one or get more info about it? Sounds promising!

Here ya go. :smile:

2.4 lbs
$85

http://www2.kartboy.com/x4/product.php? ... t=0&page=1 (http://www2.kartboy.com/x4/product.php?productid=16175&cat=0&page=1)

d1giPhux

09-13-2009, 10:47 AM

Awesome! Thanks man.. definitely going to keep that one on the bookmark list.. and quite possibly buy it!

rougeben83

09-13-2009, 07:58 PM

Awesome! Thanks man.. definitely going to keep that one on the bookmark list.. and quite possibly buy it!

That's pointless, why are you getting hung up over 1.5lbs in weight? It not worth it. That pulley caters to indecisive people that think going with a "middle ground" will somehow eliminate the problem. You either throw a code or you don't. It's a crapshoot with subarus. Some people run the lightest pulley and fw available and never throw a code, some people run just a pulley and they manage to throw one.

You want to run both parts correct? Then go ahead and do it. The worse case scenario is you have to switch back to the stock crank pulley.

I had the lw flywheel first. It was the greatest change in how the car revved and how I had to drive it. My car was still pretty stock and I threw no code. When I had the lw pulley combined with the flywheel (it came with my wrx motor), I noticed NO CHANGE in how the car revved and I still drove it exactly as I did before with just the lw flywheel.

And you don't "lose torque" with a lw flywheel. The good thing with a heavy flywheel is that it stores a lot more rotating inertia once it's already spinning, so it takes less pedal pressure and revs to get the clutch to "catch" on. You exchange this for the ability of the flywheel to change rotating speed -which in turn affects how quick the engine revs up and down.

d1giPhux

09-13-2009, 08:56 PM

thanks for the extra info man! I will probably just buy a cheap stock pulley again, and if the LW doesnt work out.. switch that over. I didn't know that 1.5lbs makes no difference.. so thats good to know as well.

Its nice to know that i wont do any major damage or anything by running 2 lightweight parts.. good to have mental re-enforcement of that fact. Thanks again!

Huffer

09-13-2009, 11:44 PM

I've been saying that all along...

d1giPhux

09-14-2009, 08:54 AM

I know.. and I have agreed with you all along. That's been my plan since the start.. however it is nice to hear more people agree on the same thing.

Huffer

09-14-2009, 11:15 AM

:lol:

d1giPhux

09-14-2009, 01:18 PM

I think it calls for one of these actually:

:smt005

So anyone know about the piston pin access cover? Should I use the permatex grey? How about buying a replacement cover.. necessary?

d1giPhux

09-14-2009, 09:34 PM

Okay.. so i found more about the 'piston pin access cover'.. its called an 'oil seperator cover', or 'real main seal retainer', or 'oil baffle plate'.

Part number: 11831AA210

Check out this thread.. it will tell you all about what you need to install it:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... p=18229401 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18229401)

You can also buy the kit here:

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_par ... rtid=11564 (http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=11564)

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And just in case.. here are all the parts you will need (from nasioc thread):

For the Oil Separator itself -
11831AA210: Oil Separator Cover (1x)

800406150: Special Bolt (Screw) (1x)

800406140: Bolt (Screw) (5x)

For the "Gotta Put This Thing Back Together" factor -
051906402: Spring Pin (2x)

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More info about what type of sealant to use:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... p=28103861 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28103861)

ouch1011

09-16-2009, 02:01 AM

Don't just reseal the stock oil separator cover (That is what Subaru calls it). The stock one is plastic. If you get the new, updated one, it is stamped steel. Much better. You also have to get the hex screws to go with it, and take the 1 odd screw and install it where the arrow points on the cover.

You will still have to apply sealant to it. Grey RTV works fine, just make sure everything is totally clean before applying. Brake cleaner works well for this.