Where to buy brakes?

[Sarra]

I need to buy new pads and rotors, for fronts and rears!

Where should I go for everything at once?

Just remember, I can't go with anything larger than stock, as I still have 15" wheels on.

[Reason]

OEM or performance?

[Sarra]

At this point, either. :p

I have already purchased a set of front and rear brake pads, I just need rotors now.

As I mentioned, I'd perfer plain vented or power slotted, but I'd like something that can take more abuse than OEM, but isn't too pricy. =\

[Reason]

I'm in the market for brakes too right now. I plan on ordering them once my christmas shopping is complete. I have power slot slotted rotors for the front. I'm either going to buy Power slot slotted rotos for the rear (Just seen them for $77 each on cardomain store) or 2 sets of Brembo slotted rotors. Try www.Boxer4Racing.com (http://www.Boxer4Racing.com) and www.TireRack.com (http://www.TireRack.com) for rotors. I would also check out cardomain, if my front rotors aren't bad I will just get the rears from them.

[Sarra]

Boxer4Racing was actually one of the first places I checked... They ironically have front rotors for my car, but not rears. Neither does tirerack (which is where I just ordered my pads from).

I found that if I went on tirerack and selected '1999 Outback', it came up with the exact same front plain brembos and a set of rear brembos as well. I'll probably end up getting those front and rear brakes with whatever money I get for Xmas. ;)

Squee, tire chains, brand new winter performance tires, brakes, my car is getting more xmas gifts than I am this year! :p Then again, I just got a laptop...

[scottzg]

why do you need rear rotors?

Seems wierd.

[Sarra]

Because there is no brake pad left at all in the rear, or the front, and the rotors are all trashed.

Why? Because whoever owned this car before I did put the wrong size tires on it, which caused the brakes to overheat. Then I took the car down a mountain at high speeds, and whatever brakes were left burned off then. ;)

[Huffer]

How do incorrect size tires cause brakes to overheat?

[Sarra]

How do incorrect size tires cause brakes to overheat?

I don't know. All I know is, after hard driving, my rotors were glowing, front and rear.

[Huffer]

Well if you don't know, don't say it caused your brakes to wear!
:roll:

The only reason your brake rotors were glowing was because they were hot, and couldn't dissipate the friction-caused heat fast enough.

Maybe you should try engine braking instead of stomping on the stop pedal during your "hard driving"...

[Legacy4Life]

That must have been some pretty heavy braking to get them "glowing". I've never seen rotors that hot except maybe under an exceptional workout at the track. But those were special rotors made to take the abuse.

Another thought is that perhaps you have calipers that aren't working well and the pads are dragging. That would cause a lot of excess heat and wear, and it will do the same thing to your new brakes too. Might want to check that out at the same time as you change your brakes.

[Sarra]

Well if you don't know, don't say it caused your brakes to wear!
:roll:

The only reason your brake rotors were glowing was because they were hot, and couldn't dissipate the friction-caused heat fast enough.

Maybe you should try engine braking instead of stomping on the stop pedal during your "hard driving"...

Uh... Sure? Sorry, but you have no idea what I consider hard driving. When I use engine braking, I often times get my RPM up over 7,000 rpm, it takes a LOT to slow a 3,400 lb car down when you're going 80+ mph on a steep downhill and a sharp curve is coming up.

I know my brakes aren't dragging because after going 120+ for 20 minutes, then stopping using nothing but engine braking, my rotors are actually cool to the touch.

If you go here: http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalcul ... ion=submit (http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalculator.asp?action=submit)

Put in 205 60 15 for the stock tire size, then put in 205 65 15 for Tire Comparison 1, it'll come up with a warning... That's where I got the 'too big tires cause brake issues' thing.

Yes, I have video of glowing rotors (at night), if you want me to upload it. The quality sucks, but the first time I noticed they were glowing, they were bright enough that you could see the entire wheel wells from their glow. :(

[SubiFlow]

:shock: DUDE! glowing Rotors, i want to do that to someone else's car! let's see pics :)

[Huffer]

What subaru are you driving with 15" wheels that goes past 7000rpm???

[Sarra]

What subaru are you driving with 15" wheels that goes past 7000rpm???

Well, my car's rev limiter is at 6,500 rpm, but you can easily go past 7,000 if you downshift and dump the clutch (I usually goose the gas too).

Stock valvetrain can take up to 7,500 rpm reliably, according to an article I read on COBB's website.

I'll reupload the video of the glowing rotors once I find it again. :)

[Legacy4Life]

Sounds to me like the way you're driving your car, you should be driving a "beater" that you don't care about.

I expect that if you keep that up, rotors will be the least of your problems...

But then again, perhaps I'm just too easy on my Subie. That might be why I'm almost at 300,000 kms though. Treat them right and a Subaru will be a really good car. Beat the "tar" out of it all the time and it'll behave like any other car... good for while, but not forever.

There's a reason why they practically rebuild Rally cars in the WRC... if they finish! Apparently I don't have the rights sponsors! :wink:

[jey]

What subaru are you driving with 15" wheels that goes past 7000rpm???

Well, my car's rev limiter is at 6,500 rpm, but you can easily go past 7,000 if you downshift and dump the clutch (I usually goose the gas too).

Stock valvetrain can take up to 7,500 rpm reliably, according to an article I read on COBB's website.

I'll reupload the video of the glowing rotors once I find it again. :)

And in the other thread about cylinder misfiring you complain about your engine... I think we have your answer. You might have caused some harmful detonation doing your 7000 rpm engine braking.

Impressive that you are able to get your rotors to glow :) I've done track days on my stock L-trim brakes and haven't gotten any sort of fireworks like that.

As for brake pads, since it seems like you like performance driving, give Carbotech http://www.carbotecheng.com/main.htm a call - even the cheapest pads they sell (Axxis Ultimates) are so much more amazing that stock pads.

[Sarra]

I dunno, when you're using engine braking, you typically don't get any fuel in the cylinders, I doubt there was any pinging involved.

Might be a bent valve though... I'll get it checked when I get the new front bumper painted.

Yeah, I found my glowing rotors video, it's the time it was a little bit colder on the mountain so the glow isn't as bright.

I bought a set of Akebono pads, front and rear already, they're 'autocross' pads, but most of the reviewers on various websites use them on their daily drivers.

Last night I started wondering if I could put an EG33 in my car, and then do a hub/wheel/tire/full brake conversion and run Porsche brakes, hubs, wheels, and tires... Oh well, that sounds expensive, and I need to get my car running happily again first.

[scottzg]

yeooouch. clutch dump engine braking.

My personal opinion is that brake failure due to oversize tires is a load of crap. This is based on 6 sets of tires and 3 different sizes having been on my legacy.

I used to get glowy rotors pretty regularly on my bmw. It The rotors would need to be turned afterwards until i got some track pads, which would squeek all the time but wouldnt need constant maintenance. Again, opinion, unless you cant turn them or you wore all the way through the pad and had metal on metal, your rotors should be fine, esp. the rear ones.

[Plays_with_Toys]

Akebono pads? Hmm... Have fun. I have them on my legacy, and while nice, it doesn't sound like they'll have the braking (or breaking) power you need.

I don't agree with too big of tires either. Here's why. Most people in the 4x4 world up their tire size with suspension lift. The bigger tires are 16 wheels with 35-40" tires. On brakes that can fit under the 16" wheels. And these trucks are much heavier than your subaru, and yet, they are on the roads, and not smoking their rotors. I upped the tire size on my truck and all it did was increased braking distance (because of more rotational mass having to slow down).

I've never heard of people pushing 7500 RPM's on their subies. There's a reason redline starts at 6000 rpms. Do you know what redline represents? Let me spell it out for you and everyone else thats listening.

As your pistons move through their range, the exhaust/intake valves push down into the combustion chamber, either to let air in, or create a vacuum to push the exhaust out. A spring outside the combustion chamber pulls the valve back up as the rocker behind the assembly allows it to move out.

As you increase in RPM's your piston travels up and down in the chamber quicker, and the rocker speeds increase allowing your valves to come up and down faster. At a point somewhere in redline, the springs can not spring back quick enough to move the valve away from the piston moving towards it. After several contacts of the piston against the valve, bam. Good bye piston or atleast a bent/messed up valve. Keep in mind over the years, the springs might wear unevenly (especially if tolerances with the valve clearances aren't kept), so even though 3 of your cylinders are fine at say 6750 RPMs (within redline), the last cylinder might not be as healthy and you can get damage.

Moral of the story, brakes cost less than a clutch and they cost a heck of a lot less than an engine. So brake more, and maybe we should avoid doing 40mph over the speed limit in the mountains.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Actually, the EJ25 (DOHC) is 6500 RPM, but still...

[Sarra]

Akebono pads? Hmm... Have fun. I have them on my legacy, and while nice, it doesn't sound like they'll have the braking (or breaking) power you need.

I don't agree with too big of tires either. Here's why. Most people in the 4x4 world up their tire size with suspension lift. The bigger tires are 16 wheels with 35-40" tires. On brakes that can fit under the 16" wheels. And these trucks are much heavier than your subaru, and yet, they are on the roads, and not smoking their rotors. I upped the tire size on my truck and all it did was increased braking distance (because of more rotational mass having to slow down).

I've never heard of people pushing 7500 RPM's on their subies. There's a reason redline starts at 6000 rpms. Do you know what redline represents? Let me spell it out for you and everyone else thats listening.

As your pistons move through their range, the exhaust/intake valves push down into the combustion chamber, either to let air in, or create a vacuum to push the exhaust out. A spring outside the combustion chamber pulls the valve back up as the rocker behind the assembly allows it to move out.

As you increase in RPM's your piston travels up and down in the chamber quicker, and the rocker speeds increase allowing your valves to come up and down faster. At a point somewhere in redline, the springs can not spring back quick enough to move the valve away from the piston moving towards it. After several contacts of the piston against the valve, bam. Good bye piston or atleast a bent/messed up valve. Keep in mind over the years, the springs might wear unevenly (especially if tolerances with the valve clearances aren't kept), so even though 3 of your cylinders are fine at say 6750 RPMs (within redline), the last cylinder might not be as healthy and you can get damage.

Moral of the story, brakes cost less than a clutch and they cost a heck of a lot less than an engine. So brake more, and maybe we should avoid doing 40mph over the speed limit in the mountains.

The front rotors at least need to be turned, they're pretty chewed up really. Grooves in the rotors, chips, etc. I think there is some backing on rotor action happening. :(

I was thinking that bit about larger tires was fishy too... I think that website is confused, if you put a suspension lift on a vehicle, you tend to need to install longer brake lines as well. That might be what they're trying to get at, but I honestly don't know.

As for how many RPM's the motor can do... The stock motor should be able to run 7,500 rpm reliably, but the redline is 6,000 rpm because that's where the motor starts running out of power. I've done research on this, mostly on COBB's website but also on other websites. A stock 2.5l NA SOHC motor can run up to 10,000 rpm stock with a valvetrain upgrade. I usually shift at 5,250 rpm when driving spiritedly, unless I'm going tooth and nail, then my left food gets the clutch to the floor right as the engine touches the rev limiter. When downshifting, I usually downshift so that the maximum my RPM goes up to is 5,250 again... This engine makes diminishing power above that point, so ti's kinda useless to go over that.

On another note, I found the reasons for my gas milage problems, rich problems, and everything else... Defective wire. I happened to have a known good wire sitting around, I pulled the wire off the #4 cylinder plug and plugged it in, drove around the block, no difference, moved it to #3, and bingo, no more running rich, and all 4 cylinders are firing.

I'm going to have to replace this coil pack, again. >_< I'm also going to dissect the wire that went bad, maybe it's a material defect...

[Plays_with_Toys]

Research redlining a motor. Not on Cobb's site, but in general. Again, thats the reason that a motor has a redline. It starts to lose power up there because the valves can't move quick enough and its getting really low on breath. Just warning that if you keep up the harsh treatment, a motor swap may be right around the corner.

[Huffer]

Every subaru that I've driven has bounced off the redline.
It's an ECU limitation based on safety.

I still find it rather unbelieveable that you've managed to rev your car to 7,500rpm, stock.

[Sarra]

Every subaru that I've driven has bounced off the redline.
It's an ECU limitation based on safety.

I still find it rather unbelieveable that you've managed to rev your car to 7,500rpm, stock.

If you have a 5 speed MT, take it into first up to redline, shift, increase your speed 15 mph, shift into first, dump the clutch after giving it some gas to get the RPM's started on their climb.

The first time I did this was during an emergency stop on the freeway, all I remember was stuffing it into first gear and dumping the clutch... The syncros on that car were really good, I could get it into first gear at 80 MPH, but I never let the clutch out at that speed. :p

For video of the brakes glowing, this was the 3rd time they got hot enough to glow, so they weren't as bright. http://biyofan.joeyteel.com/vid/rotors.avi

The file is 1 meg.

[gator gt]

Every subaru that I've driven has bounced off the redline.
It's an ECU limitation based on safety.

I still find it rather unbelieveable that you've managed to rev your car to 7,500rpm, stock.

If you have a 5 speed MT, take it into first up to redline, shift, increase your speed 15 mph, shift into first, dump the clutch after giving it some gas to get the RPM's started on their climb.

The first time I did this was during an emergency stop on the freeway, all I remember was stuffing it into first gear and dumping the clutch... The syncros on that car were really good, I could get it into first gear at 80 MPH, but I never let the clutch out at that speed. :p

For video of the brakes glowing, this was the 3rd time they got hot enough to glow, so they weren't as bright. http://biyofan.joeyteel.com/vid/rotors.avi

The file is 1 meg.

Well, for 1, the synchros WON'T be good for much longer with the enthusiastic driving you seem to show.

And 2, the kind of transmission clowning around you're showing with clutch dumping 15mph into 2nd and going back into first is a very similar procedure to the Corvette in my first post in this thread (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=171&highlight=corvette+interference+engine). Yes, the mechanical redline can be extended beyond the electronic redline...but HIGHLY discouraged there, Speed Racer.

GGT

[Perdue]

Actually, unless you have the first generation legacy, Boxer4 has the rotors you need. The regular rotors for the BD/BG L and GT are the same as the 2.5RS rear rotors (and WRX rear rotors I believe). The "H6" rotors (these actually came on some 2.5s too, but I don't know specifics) are slightly larger, and Boxer4 has those too. You need to call and talk to Dale or Patrick and they will help you get things figured out.

I can't think that getting your rotors that hot is very good for them, hence one reason you're probably needing brake work now. I'd suggest a major brake upgrade if you plan to continue using your car in this way (I'm talking Brembo STi takeoffs at least...maybe stoptech or APRacing...and a H6 rear upgrade at the bare minumim). The hotter you get those brakes, the worse your braking is going to be (aka, brake fade), and the quicker your brake fluid is going to boil and break down.

As far as how hard you're apparently driving your car...holy shit. I would prefer to see someone driving THAT hard on a closed course. I don't think you realize how much danger you're putting other people in, as well as yourself. If a slow moving car was in one of these turns where you're engine braking, plus using the brakes hard enough to get them glowing, there's no way you'd be able to stop before hitting them, nor do I see you being able to react to dodge them and still be able to keep the car under control. You're flirting with death, but unfortunately, it's not only your life at stake. Keep that crap on the track.

Edit: In addition, Subaru 5 speeds are not known for their strength. You're quickly destroying that car, engine, transmission, brakes, and all.

[Huffer]

Edit: In addition, Subaru 5 speeds are not known for their strength. You're quickly destroying that car, engine, transmission, brakes, and all.

I say, keep going. I'd like to see the vid where you turn it into a pile of slag.
Which would undoubtedly get you off the road, because you obviously don't know how to treat a car well.

[Sarra]

Heh... Usually I do braking and such before entering the corner, incase of, say, a car in the oncoming lane or a slow car, or even deer or other things in the road. So, yeah, if there was a slow car, I woudln't hit it, because I'd be off the brakes and have the throttle open partially during hte turn itself, meaning I'd have extra room to work with.

As for destroying the car, whoever owned the car before me did a pretty good job of that. There's not much left to destroy. :( The car had tranny problems before I got it, engine problems, and brake problems. It's just getting time to take care of them all... And before you say 'well, you beat on it', most of these problems, other than the brakes, existed from before I drove this car hard.

Honestly though, I am getting an RX-7 for a beater soon, which means the Legacy is going to get some new doors (right side doors are dented thanks to a bush) and front bumper (uh, bald summer tires + steep hill with packed snow on it = bad, that was at a VERY SLOW SPEED too).

And no offense to anyone, but unless you have been on Mt. Ashland during the summer at night, you have no idea what kind of road I'm talking about. The road is completely deserted at night, I went up there every night for 3 weeks in a row and never saw any other cars on it. I mean, who would be on that road at 3 am? I did see a bunch of deer, but I never even had a close call with the deer.


I'd like to see the vid where you turn it into a pile of slag.

I'd like to show you pics of the factory stock oil pan, and how it was fucked up at the factory. Or the syncros, which were completely destroyed, before I put more than 1 mile on the car. Or the exhaust gaskets that the dealer screwed up replacing the syncros on the car. A LOT has happened to this car, and for the most part, I have no claim to it.

[Legacy4Life]

Seems to me the "hole" on this thread's about as deep as it's worth going for me.

Guess that's what makes a forum unique, lot's of different people, lot's of different driving styles, lot's of different attitudes.

Enjoy the car Sarra; while it lasts... but don't be borowing mine!

[scottzg]

you have been on Mt. Ashland during the summer at night, you have no idea what kind of road I'm talking about.

I've done that!! That road is fun as hell.

Have you driven that dirt road from galice to foster bar? That thing is soooo fun.

I must admit, i sympathize with ya a bit (despite your sounding kind of moronic), having the same bad habits re- back roads. A bit of advice is to be really smooth; shift smooth, match revs downshifting, don't ever engine brake when the middle pedal is more effective (i just use the engine for weight transfer) it's faster to drive like this, since it doesnt upset the chassis' balance. When things start feeling warm, idle along at 20mph for 5-10 minutes. Your stuff will last longer and you don't have to be wondering if you're gonna melt a brake or pop your engine and wreck.

In my experience, no car is designed to handle the thrashing even a decent driver in a canyon can offer, and the legacy is not at all the most durable car in this respect.

Grooves in the rotors is normal.

[Wiscon_Mark]

thanks, scott, for bringing us down to earth...

[Sarra]

Neh... I only drive this car hard once a month or so. usually I just take it up in the mountains for leisurly drives, usually taking pics on the way. :p Unless something else is factory defective or breaks on it's own...

[Perdue]

I think we all go for that spirited drive every once in a while, but drive hard enough to get your rotors glowing is a completely different level. At that point, you're obviously driving harder than you should be, and it's going to eventually cost you. A public road may be deserted most of the time, but it still a public road. Someone else may have the same intentions of a spirited drive on that road one night, but say they aren't traveling as fast as you. If you run up on them, you obviously aren't going to expect it, which may lead to an accident. It would be like coming into a turn that gets sharper midway through, not knowing this, and attacking it at a normal rate of speed.

I've seen too many people think that there's no one else on the road at 3am. I am on the road at 3am...cutting them out of their cars because their doors don't open anymore and they're too hurt to get out of their seat on their own power, much less crawl through the window. Think about that.

[Huffer]

Does it really matter (to us) what condition the car was in when you bought it? No, because if you recognized (as you say) the car's beaten condition, you should know NOT to drive it in your obviously hard manner until the car is up to (your) standard. :lol:

But then, you were driving it on bald summer tires in the snow... :wink:

[Sarra]

Does it really matter (to us) what condition the car was in when you bought it? No, because if you recognized (as you say) the car's beaten condition, you should know NOT to drive it in your obviously hard manner until the car is up to (your) standard. :lol:

But then, you were driving it on bald summer tires in the snow... :wink:

that's a good point. It's also why I haven't driven the car that hard in the past 6 months. It's also why I'm getting a 7 in the near future.

I drive responcibly. I don't do stupid things, I don't drive beyond my ability. I don't enter a corner fast unless I can see the entire thing, including the exit, and know it is clear. I have never once had a close call, and I don't plan on having one soon either. I make sure that thigns work before I go out for some fun in the car, including checking tire pressure and fluid levels.

Some of you probably have the impression that I drive like this every night, I've only driven hard enough to get the rotors glowing 3 times in the entire year I've had the car. I've gone past the rev limit in the car twice. When I drive the car, the engine rpm stays between 1,000 and 3,250 rpm unless I'm hopping on the freeway, then it goes up to 4,250, and on occasion I do a WOT run to redline just to keep thing happy. I don't race people, I don't floor it around town, I don't pull the parking brake to stop for red lights, I don't try to do burnouts, I don't dump the clutch with the engine bounding off the rev limiter. I don't autox the car, I don't push the tires, suspension, or brakes past their limits, well, at least not regularly. The brakes are going to get upgraded, and if I can find a good set of 16" wheels, I'm going to upgrade to WRX brakes all around. I know the brakes need work, so I'm going to fix them. Meanwhile, I go slow, and driving up and down Mt. Ashland is a leisurly drive up and down, usually with my top speed hitting about 45 mph. I enjoy driving fast, but my friends and family for the most part swear that I'm the safest driver they've ever driven with. =\

Since i'm here and my wifi dropped for a moment, I'm going to rant. I hate idiot drivers. I pay darn attention to things around me while driving, like other drivers. I was almost hit by a lady today who started pulling out of a parking lot while I was driving down the street. I knew the lane to the left of me was open, so I swerved into it while I hit the horn. She didn't even notice me until I hit my horn. She floored it and flipped me off, like it was MY fault I was driving down the street... Some day, someone's going to have to cut her out of a wreck because her brain doens't work now, so eventually her doors won't work either. >_< I learned in drivers ed before I had my lisence to, you know, pay attention to what's happening around me. =\ I wish other people learned that lesson too...