When Engine is Off and In Park the Car Rolls???? Ideas?

[xtremeskimer]

Okay here is one for ya, I have a 1996 Legacy wagon L it recently start making this clicking/rattling noise when I am in motion. Doesn't happen when the car is stopped in neutral or park. (can rev the engine and no noise) As soon as the wheels start moving the clicking/rattling is there.... (also when I turn there is a loud pop if the turns are sharp lesser pop is not as sharp) Thought it had something to do with the transmission (auto) but it still shifts through the gears fine no problem. Just a real nasty sounding noise...

Looked under my car and noticed there was grease around the front right tire, so my CV boot is torn, which tells me what the popping sound while turning. Still don't know what clicking/rattling noise is.

My finial symptom which is puzzling to me, is that when the car is in park and the engine is off the car rolls, when the engine is on I can feel park engage.

Does this all have to do with the CV axle? Or do I have trany problem as well?

(My ideas so far is that, the CV axle is where the park engages, I have a broken transmission mount, or something is rattling around inside of my trany)

[green97gt]

parking pawl...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_pawl


my guess is the cable/assembly that holds your parking pawl is worn/broken and the noise you hear is the pawl itself clicking/rattling on the gear it is supposed to fit into when parked as the gear turns when driving. probably worn it down or broken it to the point it no longer functions.

start using that parking brake

[xtremeskimer]

Parking brake is in use.

If that is the case what is the probability for a mechanical seizure?

Also why does the park work with the engine on? If the parking prawl was broken wouldn't the park be non functioning at all times?

Also can anybody tell me what an "AT OIL TEMP" light means it flashes this for several seconds when I first turn the car on but goes away

[green97gt]

the at oil temp flashing at startup means you have a trans issue. if it flashes and stays on your temps are out of limits, if it flashes and goes off, i believe it means one of your electrical solenoids within is not working correctly..i think. someone should chime in with a foresure.

so if the car is on and you put it in park it wont roll?

but if its off and you put it in park it will roll?

either way if your using your parking brake and it still rolls you need to fix/ adjust your rear brakes.

try putting it in park with the engine on and parking brake not applied and giving it a shove, it should rock a little, but not roll. if it just rocks a little the pawl is working correctly... and im honestly stumped as to why it would work with the engine on, but not off...

what if you pull over, leave the car running, put it in park, then shut it off...does it still roll with the parking brake not applied??


that is odd.


start carrying around some chunks of 4X4 for wheel stops :lol: jk

[xtremeskimer]

No the E-brake works fine. No rolling when that is applied...

With engine on I can feel it engage to a stop, cant push the car forwards or backwards just rocks, but as soon as the engine turns off it starts rolling as if the car where in neutral, but if I the start the car it engages again. Tried leaving it on for a bit in park no luck. As soon the engine turns off it rolls.

Does anybody know specifically what the "AT OIL TEMP" means? To much/little fluid? Trany, "I am about to crap out"?

[green97gt]

AT OIL TEMPerature warning light (for AT vehicles)
If this light comes on when the engine is running, it may indicate that the
automatic transmission fluid temperature is too hot.
If the light comes on while driving, it is unnecessary to stop the vehicle,
but avoid driving up steep grades or in stop and go traffic.
Automatic transmission control system warning
If the light flashes after the engine starts, it may indicate that the automatic
transmission control system is not working properly . Contact
your nearest SUBARU dealer for service immediately.

direct from the FSM

HOW TO READ TROUBLE CODE OF INDICATOR
LIGHT
The AT OIL TEMP indicator light flashes the code corresponding
to the faulty part.
The long segment (1.2 sec on) indicates a “ten”, and the
short segment (0.2 sec on) signifies a “one”.

CLEAR MEMORY
Current trouble codes shown on the display are cleared by
turning the ignition switch OFF after conducting on-board
diagnostic operation. Previous trouble codes, however,
cannot be cleared since they are stored in the TCM
memory which is operating on the back-up power supply.
These trouble codes can be cleared by removing the specified
fuse (located under the right lower portion of the instrument
panel).
CLEAR MEMORY:
Removal of No. 14 fuse (for at least one minute)

The No. 14 fuse is located in the line to the memory
back-up power supply of the TCM and ABS/TCS control
module. Removal of this fuse clears the previous trouble
codes stored in the TCM and ABS/TCS control module
memory.

Be sure to remove the No. 14 fuse for at least the specified
length of time. Otherwise, trouble codes may not be
cleared.
15
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION AND DIFFERENTIAL 3-2
6. Diagnostic Chart for On-board Diagnostic System

D: LIST OF TROUBLE CODE
1. TROUBLE CODE
Trouble code Item Content of diagnosis
Abbr.
(Select monitor)
Page
11 Duty solenoid A
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
PLDTY 16
12 Duty solenoid B
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
LUDTY 20
13 Shift solenoid 3
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
OVR 24
14 Shift solenoid 2
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
SFT2 26
15 Shift solenoid 1
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
SFT1 28
21 ATF temperature sensor
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
ATFT 30
22 Mass air flow signal
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
AFM 33
23 Engine speed signal
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
EREV 35
24 Duty solenoid C
Detects open or shorted drive
circuit, as well as valve seizure.
4WDTY 37
25 Torque control signal
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
TQ.CT 39
31 Throttle position sensor
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
THV 41
32 Vehicle speed sensor 1
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
VSP1 44
33 Vehicle speed sensor 2
Detects open or shorted input
signal circuit.
VSP2 48


EDIT: that is copied directly from the factory service manual. a little confusing. but count the number of flashes long and short and that should tell you what trans code is being triggered.

[xtremeskimer]

Okay so I counted the flashes, and I got 1 long and 20 shorts. Is it supposed to come out like that? If so which code does the correspond to on your list?

[green97gt]

that would equal 30...closest on the FSM list is 31 wich is a TPS issue.

EDIT: and i would think that would also throw a CEL

[xtremeskimer]

that would equal 30...closest on the FSM list is 31 wich is a TPS issue.

EDIT: and i would think that would also throw a CEL

What is a CEL?

[slaytalera]

that would equal 30...closest on the FSM list is 31 wich is a TPS issue.

EDIT: and i would think that would also throw a CEL

What is a CEL?

Check Engine Light

[xtremeskimer]

Got to love the world of acronyms, their is no check engine light. The ABS light comes on every now and then but i think that is related to the CV axle.

Still at a loss to what could be causing the car to roll. Going to take the trany pan off and do a flush this weekend and see if I can get a better idea of whats going on.

[Soul Shinobi]

Sounds like you miscounted on the trans code flashes. Your issue definitely sounds like the pawl is left engaged. On your car it's activated mechanically, get under the car and follow the metal rod from the shifter to high on the back of the transmission, likely driver's side. I expect you'll find something broken or bent. There may be an exhaust heat shield you have to remove.

[nipper]

Got to love the world of acronyms, their is no check engine light. The ABS light comes on every now and then but i think that is related to the CV axle.

Still at a loss to what could be causing the car to roll. Going to take the trany pan off and do a flush this weekend and see if I can get a better idea of whats going on.


Wow what a mess. The ABS light coming on has nothing to do with the bad CV joint. Get that fixed, and if you plan on keeping the car in any reasonable shape dont cheap out on that replacement axle.
I am wondering if you have a bad tranny mount. This would make sense. The cable/linkage is slightly out of adjustment. When the engine is running the car goes into park since everything is nice and straight. With the engine off, there is room for things to move and it wont go into park (makes as much sense as anything else).

The ABS light is a dying wheel speed sensor.


nipper

[Soul Shinobi]

The park pawl may be so worn from attempting to apply when driving that it can't hold the car anymore.

[xtremeskimer]

Did the flush found no indications of grinding or anything broken in the tranny. Went ahead and got the CV axle replaced.

Got the car back moments ago, and there is no rolling in park and ABS light has not turned on yet and the AT light is now seems to displaying a different code but I haven't bothered counting it out yet.

New question, why would a broken CV axle have anything to do with the rolling?

[Soul Shinobi]

It can't unless the axle was so broken that it was free-spinning. In that case the open front differential would spin freely even when in park because one side isn't connected to a wheel.

[green97gt]

yeah, if thats the case that CV axle must have been MESSED up.

even then i would imagine the rear diff would stop it from rolling.

[Soul Shinobi]

Yes, that axle would have to be FUBAR, though I've heard of stranger things. Like the guy who bought a car only to find the driveshaft on the AWD Legacy was missing (proof: link (http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=41056)).

I don't know how the park mechanism works. Most autos are 90/10 F/R torque split so it's possible that it only parks the front axle. Distribution of torque to the rear (correct me if I'm wrong) is done by an electronically controlled clutch or band, which would not likely be applied when the car is off. I must admit, I'm speculating.

[nipper]

Amazing thing about clutch packs in cars with auto transmissions, they only work when the car is running. When the car is not running, there is no need for AWD. The rear clutch packs are applied and controlled by hydraulic pressure and electrical solenoids, all of which are off when the car is off. So aside from the parking brake, the front wheels take the laod when the car is parked.


nipper

[xtremeskimer]

What broke the CV joint, was that I bought a used tire (retread, whatever you wanna call it) and I was on the freeway going to school and my car started to shake violently so I started to slow down and get off the free way. When the tread exploded it ripped apart my front wheel well and tore all the wires to the ABS unit out. I rewired all of those (bought a set of new tires) and everything was hunky dory until I went to the bank made a sharp turn and heard a large pop, and the subsequent clicking and rolling after.

AT light still flashes the same code (not sure to do about that one) and the ABS light comes on randomly still, I am thinking I might have a faulty connection from my wiring job. Will recheck those this weekend. Someone was saying something about a bad speed sensor, could that have something to do with the exploding tire (all my problems this month, all come back to that cheap mexican tire shop)? where would that be? quick easy fix?

All your comments and insight is extremely helpful and appreciated

[xtremeskimer]

The joint is what was broken not the axle, I replaced the axle. It was never free spinning, something was just really messed up in the joint