Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
So finally I broke out the big gun! First coat of base color went on. I again had some minor dry-spray issues due to my inexperience, and I also encountered some unexpected texture with the sealer coat, leading me to decide on another base coat spray session:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...2e893642-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...9b62a03f-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...e3ce2b85-1.jpg
I had a sag on one of my GT sideskirts, dag nabit! I knew I needed to address this before recoating. I don't seem to have any photos of this step, but the sag was carefully sanded flat with a block and 800 grit IIRC:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...0ae3ba64-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Okay, I learned that one is not supposed to sand basecoat prior to clearcoat (not metallics, at least). Knowing that I would be recoating many items, I used this chance to sand away any dust nibs before the next coat of base color. I used my airbrush to spot in some basecoat again over those sanded spots. I wondered if the airbrush touchup spots, which were obvious without clearcoat, would blend in under the clear, but I didn't want to risk it, so any item that had been spot-touched got completely resprayed with basecoat with the big HVLP gun.
After the second coat of base color, I had a fairly thick build. Probably much more the necessary. It's difficult to know when to stop shooting when you've never shot base/clear before. I was pretty much shooting until it looked like I had a nice, consistent finish:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...79776c20-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...b9500b47-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...1313a798-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...76b7714c-1.jpg
Slight orange peel and a few dust flecks, darnitol!
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...1715a304-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c0fda1ba-1.jpg
Door trims:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...fdcd82b4-1.jpg
Mirror housings:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...b470df3a-1.jpg
Rear bumper after final coat of base color:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...0b7bf4a2-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...e12bcaee-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...36d467d0-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
First major coat of clear on most of the parts:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...069e67f8-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...238b142a-1.jpg
Pretty darn thrilled with the color match to the factory paint:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...22db7970-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...66adbdba-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...9fa2eba3-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c068dd5f-1.jpg
But, again I ran into pot life and overspray issues on some parts, just like what happened with the spats. The JDM flush door trims got a nice smooth first coat, then a sort of fuzzy second coat as my clear began to gel up in the gun cannister:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...238d44f9-1.jpg
The GT sideskirts came out nearly flawless, with high gloss and only minor orange-peel:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...30e98dd7-1.jpg
The bumpers were more inconsistent. I had some nice shiny areas, and some areas with some dry spray that did not melt in evenly. I made the decision to wetsand the bumpers with 600/1000 grit before another coat of clear... more on that in a bit. Same was true for the mirror housings. The door trims, however, I decided to try wetsanding smooth and then compounding/polishing, without an addition layer of clearcoat:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...8f542084-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...5f2887fa-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...e85f6ebe-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...56ac3692-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...a5547e76-1.jpg
With quite a lot of work I was able to get them to shine, although on very close inspection there is some deeper scratches that remain. I was fearful of burning through the clearcoat so I let them be for now:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...29ce4ca5-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...da51fcb8-1.jpg
All four trims polished up:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...b6961502-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
As mentioned in the previous post, I came to the decision that I would wetsand the clearcoat on the front and rear bumpers and the mirror housings, due to an inconsistent finish on my first clearcoat spray session. The goal was to flatten all the orange peel and dry-spray surfaces down with 600grit papers (primarily Sun-Might brand from Korea) wrapped around a foam block, with some smaller areas with complex shapes sanded mainly without a block. Most surfaces were followed up with 1000 grit Abralon sanding pads by hand. The parts were carefully washed, rinsed, and wiped down with a denatured alcohol/distilled water spray, then set aside to dry for a day or two. This was about three days of hard work. One has to take very special care NOT to burn through the clearcoat to the base color below. I did end up with a couple minor boo-boos that would later be addressed. I started my sanding work in the garage, but when the sun was shining I found that I had a much easier time seeing my sanding progress outside in bright daylight vs. a handheld fluorescent work light.
Mirrors wetsanded and cleaned, ready for next coat of clear.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...83020829-1.jpg
The dark spots are low points in the clear that the sandpaper did not reach. I had concerned that they might show through the next layer of clear but I think that is wasn't a problem:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...13d2601f-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c90850e5-1.jpg
Wetsanding the first layer of clear on the bumpers:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...e1aee184-1.jpg
Complex shapes are a pain to sand consistent and flat:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...80552928-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c258c045-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...e9c5b0ac-1.jpg
Took the work outside in the sunlight:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c0042451-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...7f468bf7-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...fb792173-1.jpg
Here the whole front bumper is completely wetsanded, and dripping wet from being rinsed. Almost looks like fresh clearcoat!
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...c97cc4ba-1.jpg
Same deal with the rear bumper:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...f7262140-1.jpg
As the rinse water begins to dry away, the matte wetsanded finish is revealed again. I am wondering to myself - "Will I see these faint sanding scratches under the next layer of clearcoat?" Fingers were crossed!
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...b6468821-1.jpg
A few faint low spots are revealed, and at that point I was still wondering what defects might show through the next layer of clearcoat:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...363e1a95-1.jpg
Front bumper wetsanded, washed, rinsed, and dried:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...5087a380-1.jpg
My boo-boos included a small area on the lower part of the rear bumper that got accidentally sanded through to base color, a spot near a sharp corner of the front bumper near the license plate section, and the tips of the bumpers, which probably accidentally rubbed against something while being rolled around on the carts in a tiny, crowded garage. All of these were touched up with a spritz of base with the airbrush before the next layer of clear:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...2e03c2f3-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...12900257-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...268513ff-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Your a perfectionist! Nice job, I wonder why your clear would gunk up in your gun.... It usually takes about 3 hrs for it to start gunking. The bumpers are usually the hardest to paint since you have so many contours and depth (specially the front). I've cleared over 1000 grit before and didn't show any scratches but not sure if yours will since you started it with 600. If you were able to get rid of all the 600 grit sand scratches then you should be good. Can't wait to see everything all installed
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3v_v3ng3
Your a perfectionist! Nice job, I wonder why your clear would gunk up in your gun.... It usually takes about 3 hrs for it to start gunking. The bumpers are usually the hardest to paint since you have so many contours and depth (specially the front). I've cleared over 1000 grit before and didn't show any scratches but not sure if yours will since you started it with 600. If you were able to get rid of all the 600 grit sand scratches then you should be good. Can't wait to see everything all installed
Thanks r3v, I'm trying for a pro-quality job to the best of my abilities. I re-cleared a couple weeks ago, I just haven't been able to give a full update. The final coat of clear went over the sanding scratches just fine, but what you say about the bumper depth is true - it's just too darn hard for me to shoot a glossy, flowing coat onto the top, front, sides, and into all those compound depths without the overspray from one area messing up the work I just did in a an adjacent area. Other than that, I did okay. Simply SEEING my work in the spray booth is very challenging - I'm using as much light as I have but it's still not enough, my safety glasses will collect a fog of spray material every 2 or 3 minutes, and there is a thick cloud of vapor in the air that won't clear once the inlet filter becomes clogged. All of these challenges make inspecting and accurately judging my work as I shoot very difficult.
At any rate, I have been wetsanding the orange peel on the front bumper with foam sanding disks and hope to have a really nicely compounded and polished item to install in a couple days. The rear bumper that I bought from you will get the same treatment once the front bumper is finished, though with fewer depths and compound curves, it came out of the spray booth needing a little less wetsanding attention.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
I have the front bumper fully wetsanded 1000/2000/3000/4000 and ready for compounding. I ran out of sunlight before I could get it polished up, but I'm hoping I can get it done tomorrow.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Front bumper polished up pretty nice:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...3569aa01-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...30eebddc-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...44b9527d-1.jpg
Still plagued by deep scratches that aren't getting properly sanded out, but one has to be pretty close to see:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...02927fca-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...aa8d3b04-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...021a1bda-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...38ad591a-1.jpg
The license plate is simply a placeholder. The US plate doesn't fit the JDM bumper and a cheapie universal plate mounting bracket that I bought didn't really work, so I'll have to fab up something better:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...d93c95e8-1.jpg
The top side of the bumper still has a fair amount of orange peel, so I am going to give it another wetsanding pass to flatten it down:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...d2302b53-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Where's the install pics? Saw it over at lgt and its perfect!
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3v_v3ng3
Where's the install pics? Saw it over at lgt and its perfect!
Haha thanks.. yeah the front bumper is now installed and it looks good. Just haven't had the chance to update here in my typical OCD boring detail.
On close inspection (12" or less) I still have some deep sanding scratches that need more attention, but at least the orange peel is mostly gone and it shines nicely. So much wetsanding has me worried that my clear is too thin for longevity and I wish I could give it another coat. I have been wetsanding the orange peel on the rear bumper the past two days and I accidentally burned through the clear in one small spot on the side, so I have pretty much decided to shoot one more coat of clear on it since it is not yet installed.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
:smt038 Your hard work paid off. Looks amazing
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Time for an update I suppose. The Limited front bumper has been holding up great, even went through the car wash once or twice already.
The rear bumper is another story. After installing the front bumper I was taking stock of the rear bumper situation. There was a strange defect in (or under) the clearcoat on one of the sides of the bumper near the wheel arch. I had thoroughly wetsanded all of the clearcoat orange peel away, but I was seeing a whitish speckled area that wouldn't come out no matter how much wetsanding I did. I wasn't sure what it was, but is seemed to be some sort of dust or contamination. I was fearful of sanding completely through the clear; the more I worked it, the more I felt it was getting quite thin. I decided to stop and accept the small defect before I did any irreversible damage. I was also concerned about the longevity of the clearcoat after sanding it so thin, so I decided to spray more clearcoat to make up for everything I had sanded away. I fully prepped and then spayed a nice, shiny coat of clear over the whole bumper, trying to adjust my technique according to what I has learned on my earlier spraying attempts. I then rolled the bumper out of the booth and then sprayed another nice shiny layer of clear on the door trim pieces (which I had also determined to be a little thin after their prior wetsanding/polishing). When the trims were fully coated, I moved them out of the booth and rolled the rear bumper back in again for another nice, thick coat of clear.
It was a few days before I could give the newly sprayed parts any close attention again. The door trims came out amazing, but I was upset to find that the small amount of white specked dust embedded in the fresh clear of the rear bumper was much worse after all that spraying. It was a whitish dust completely encased in the clear, not just on the surface. And it was ALL OVER the rear bumper. The parts were C-L-E-A-N CLEAN before I sprayed - wiped with distilled water/isopropyl, followed by a very, very thorough tack-cloth wipedown. After a lot of head scratching and grumbling I think I figured out the problem: Dry clearcoat dust was making its way out of the paint booth during shooting and settling on the first fresh coat of clear. Since the second coat of clear went on while I believed the first coat was still slightly tacky, I did not perform another tack cloth wipe (lest I ruin the fresh clear by putting isopropyl and fibers in the wet paint). Apparently the first coat was not tacky enough to absorb the clearcoat dust that had settled on the bumper while it was outside the booth during the spraying of the door trims.
So, the quick once-over wetsanding to flatten the orange peel that I was hoping to do has turned into a nightmare. I feel like I will have to remove virtually all of the fresh clear - without managing to burn through to the base coat in any spot - and then figure out if it still has enough clear on it to polish it up nice and shiny, or if I will have to shoot the darn thing yet again.
So. Very. Frustrated.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Thats the world of paint, it's never perfect. The car is looking great though! Keep it up!
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroncamera
I was upset to find that the small amount of white specked dust embedded in the fresh clear of the rear bumper was much worse after all that spraying. It was a whitish dust completely encased in the clear, not just on the surface. And it was ALL OVER the rear bumper. [snip]
So, the quick once-over wetsanding to flatten the orange peel that I was hoping to do has turned into a nightmare. I feel like I will have to remove virtually all of the fresh clear - without managing to burn through to the base coat in any spot - and then figure out if it still has enough clear on it to polish it up nice and shiny, or if I will have to shoot the darn thing yet again.
So. Very. Frustrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
Thats the world of paint, it's never perfect. The car is looking great though! Keep it up!
Finally got back to this rear bumper and unfortunately the white speckles are laid too deeply in the clear to wetsand out. I tried, but burned through the clear in one area during the wetsanding process yesterday. The speckling is just too deep and covers almost all of the bumper. Unfortunately this one is going to be a do-over (base and clear) after sanding it down a bit more. I am concerned about total film build on this part because it is original paint, sanded down most of the way to factory primer, followed by rattlecan primer, followed by epoxy sealer, followed by two full coats of base, followed by several coats of clear, followed by wetsanding, followed by a very thick coat of clear, followed by wetsanding. My thought is to wetsand with ~400 grit as much of the clear off that I can without cutting through the base to the sealer, if possible, then cleaning, then re-spraying base and clear. I've used most of the custom mix of 54A Black Granite Pearl that I bought earlier this year, so I will probably have to get another batch mixed up (I hope they can match the color as well as they did last time). I did get some pictures of the speckles but haven't uploaded them off of the camera card yet.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
What brands are those?
This is what I use..
PPG DP Sealer. Keeps things from lifting and other crap.
PPG DBC base coat... Covers good
Omni High Solids clear. Seems to work pretty good for the price.
Wow, PPG DBC is Great solvent based color. I use DBC on all my Harley and Honda Customers bikes. Color match and cover is excellent. Omni clear is AWFUL. It is very amber in color, and has issues with not only messing up your color match, but having a failures within 3 years. I believe Omni only has a one year warranty if I remember correctly. USC is actually a pretty good product, and very DIY friendly.
Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 line is also really good and very reasonable.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Car looks great. That is the one, if I have everything else done on my car wish.. GTB Limited front bumper.. Why oh why does SOA hate us. lol.
Painting and making things look good is easy. Painting to perfection, that can take years to master. I think you might also be having issues with laying your clear on too thick. It might not be particles that are trapped but solvent pop. If you lay your clear out too thick, and you are using too fast of a reducer, the top coat will cure before all the solvent has had time to evaporate, leaving little bubbles in the finished product. Very irritating, and always application error.
Talk to the sales person at your paint store. They should be able to tell you the proper application for your clear coat. Most modern finishes look great with two medium coats and one wet coat with sufficient time to flash (tack/dry) inbetween coats.
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Quote:
Originally Posted by meepers
Car looks great. That is the one, if I have everything else done on my car wish.. GTB Limited front bumper.. Why oh why does SOA hate us. lol.
Painting and making things look good is easy. Painting to perfection, that can take years to master. I think you might also be having issues with laying your clear on too thick. It might not be particles that are trapped but solvent pop. If you lay your clear out too thick, and you are using too fast of a reducer, the top coat will cure before all the solvent has had time to evaporate, leaving little bubbles in the finished product. Very irritating, and always application error.
Talk to the sales person at your paint store. They should be able to tell you the proper application for your clear coat. Most modern finishes look great with two medium coats and one wet coat with sufficient time to flash (tack/dry) inbetween coats.
Thank you, and I think there is something to what you are saying about the clear going on too thick and getting tiny bubbles caught in the curing clear. It seems like the crease between the bumper and lower lip accumulated a lot of clear and the bubbles there are sitting tight in that groove. Sanding alone is not getting me there, I think I will have to resort to a sharp file If I really need to shave away that extra thickness in that crease. And speaking of extra thickness, holy carp is it a chore to burn down all of that clear! 400 grit wetsanding by hand was just an exercise in futility. I moved to my Porter-Cable sander/polisher and damp-sanded with 400 and it barely seems any faster. The shorter days mean I run out of sunlight sooner, so I may have to move up to a coarser grit. That clearcoat is hardcore, but once I burn through on a corner, the base underneath just disappears and then I am looking at primer poking through.
Some closeups of the solvent pop and/or trapped dust - all of those white speckles is not the metallic of the base, it is definitely deep in the clearcoat:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...950feb93-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...70818b8d-1.jpg
Here is that crease with particularly heavy build and very prominent solvent pop:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/import...25decfab-1.jpg
Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu
Yup. That's definately solvent pop. And it is usually more prevalent with "turbo" clears that are meant for production shops or panel paints for super fast dry time. But generally switching to a slower reducer and not doing super thick wet coats (better atomization) will cure the problem. And bumper covers are usually the worst due to all the curves and angles that allow the clear to pool. Don't get discouraged, I have had seriously good painters with years experience have the same problems.
