advice on subs/wheres the damn factory sub?

[ScaryFatKidGT]

98 lgt sedan isn't the factory sub under the passenger seat? I can't find it. Anyone know how many watts it is 50? 80?

I'm looking for a new set up I got about $700-$800 I like alpine so I'm thinking alpine deck ($200) plus the alpine power pack to amp my factory speakers which is another $100 plus another $100 for instal so I only got about $400 for subs, $500 if i don't get the power pack but I don't want all base but I still want more base than the stock system puts out.

[Huffer]

Under the passenger seat is the factory location. Someone may have sold it/broken it.

They're pricey, the factory ones, and the reliability isn't fantastic.

If you get good 6.25" components (think lower Hz frequency response) you won't need a subwoofer. Think about spending some coin on sound deadening in the doors. It makes a bigger difference than a subwoofer for the dollar spent.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

1. I have really really damn good base for a "factory set up" and as far as i can tell the 6.5"ers are all stock there just plain black paper and the deck is stock so what do you think?

2. iv thought about getting 6.5" alpine Type-R's front and rear and amping them with a 100 watt RMS by 4 cannel alpine amp with no subs cuz they should have pretty good sound all around including base but A guy at best-buy and this other store (way better than best buy, they specialize in car audio) said subs are the way to go for more base

3. iv heard very good things about sound matt ect but i dont really wanna add needless dead weight to my car (that I cant easily remove) does the stuff work that good?

[hallowpoint]

mine is under the drivers seat

[Huffer]

1. I have really really damn good base for a "factory set up" and as far as i can tell the 6.5"ers are all stock there just plain black paper and the deck is stock so what do you think?

2. iv thought about getting 6.5" alpine Type-R's front and rear and amping them with a 100 watt RMS by 4 cannel alpine amp with no subs cuz they should have pretty good sound all around including base but A guy at best-buy and this other store (way better than best buy, they specialize in car audio) said subs are the way to go for more base

3. iv heard very good things about sound matt ect but i dont really wanna add needless dead weight to my car (that I cant easily remove) does the stuff work that good?

1. Your factory paper cones are crap. So is your factory deck. Ditch them. Even if you used some "WRX Premium" takeoffs you'll be using better speakers than your old stuff. Your HU is the starting point - if you produce a poor, low quality audio signal from that, it doesn't matter how good your speakers are.

2. I've run Alpine Type R's in the front, and back, and used Dynamat Xtreme around the speaker pods, and had a lot of people ask where my subs were. I ran a Kenwood HU. The Alpine Type-R's have extremely good low frequency response (hello, mr bass). You can't beat an actual subwoofer for "real" bass, but in a vehicle a subwoofer with the right cabinet/enclosure weighs a lot, takes up a huge amount of space. Not to mention the need for an amplifier adds more weight.

3. Pound for pound, if you're looking for a nice, tight system, without having to add a lot of additional weight - I go for nice components up front, some basic rear fill speakers (do you drive or do you sit in your back seat?) and formable sound deadening, all powered by a decent HU. There is absolutely no need to run a sub or a amp if your research your front speakers correctly. Your ears cannot hear many of the lowest frequencies that top end subwoofers put out...not to mention these are cars - not rockband sound stages.

I should also mention that the sound deadening works two ways - it keeps sound from outside the car, OUTSIDE. It keeps the sound inside the car, INSIDE. So your loss of sound energy means a smaller system + sound deadening works just as well as a "big" system without sound deadening.

I spent a small fortune on car audio several years ago, and came to the conclusion that less is more. Unless you enjoy annoying the crap out of people you drive past, and going deaf. With music, it's all highs, mids and spatial positioning - low end is to add that "punch" and "warmth".

[mrpyb]

mine is under the drivers seat

same here

[ScaryFatKidGT]

1. Your factory paper cones are crap. So is your factory deck. Ditch them. Even if you used some "WRX Premium" takeoffs you'll be using better speakers than your old stuff. Your HU is the starting point - if you produce a poor, low quality audio signal from that, it doesn't matter how good your speakers are.

2. I've run Alpine Type R's in the front, and back, and used Dynamat Xtreme around the speaker pods, and had a lot of people ask where my subs were. I ran a Kenwood HU. The Alpine Type-R's have extremely good low frequency response (hello, mr bass). You can't beat an actual subwoofer for "real" bass, but in a vehicle a subwoofer with the right cabinet/enclosure weighs a lot, takes up a huge amount of space. Not to mention the need for an amplifier adds more weight.

3. Pound for pound, if you're looking for a nice, tight system, without having to add a lot of additional weight - I go for nice components up front, some basic rear fill speakers (do you drive or do you sit in your back seat?) and formable sound deadening, all powered by a decent HU. There is absolutely no need to run a sub or a amp if your research your front speakers correctly. Your ears cannot hear many of the lowest frequencies that top end subwoofers put out...not to mention these are cars - not rockband sound stages.

I should also mention that the sound deadening works two ways - it keeps sound from outside the car, OUTSIDE. It keeps the sound inside the car, INSIDE. So your loss of sound energy means a smaller system + sound deadening works just as well as a "big" system without sound deadening.

I spent a small fortune on car audio several years ago, and came to the conclusion that less is more. Unless you enjoy annoying the crap out of people you drive past, and going deaf. With music, it's all highs, mids and spatial positioning - low end is to add that "punch" and "warmth".

Well my car sounds pretty damn good all around and it sounds like it has a sub but theres no sub under either seat...maybe the factory "premium" system is just that good? But I want better and my HU wont even play CD's when its cold so thats the first thing going in the trash.

Um actually thats kinda what im going for i want it to sound like a rock concert in my car (I can always turn the volume down in town and late at night) but i want the ability to be there for when I wanna listen to specific song or when i get a new CD and wanna listen to it. I want it to be good and clear, I listen to mainly rock and metal but some techno and metal/screamo with low low base ascents and I don't want anyone to be disappointed if they wanna listen to some rap off there my friends ipod or something.

and I can take the subs and the amp out for auto-x and track days. I cant really take out sound deadening material

So you think an alpine HU, Type-R components up front and Type-R's in back with no subs would be better than spending a ton of money on subs?

[impreza_GC8]

For the record OEM subaru underseat subs are under the drivers seat.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

For the record OEM subaru underseat subs are under the drivers seat.

Its just sitting there right? bolted to the floor? like a box? cuz I got nothing but the floor, its not under the carpet is it?

EDIT: yeah there is no sub. All the sound including base is coming from the 6.5"ers I'm amazed at how good they are though. The rear deck speakers on the bottom of the magnet say "ESA or something and then some #'s and "USA 30 watts" is that stock? if there 30 watts I really wanna see what Type-R 110 Watts with a 100 watt 4 channel amp will do!

[nomad666666]

I have one of these It dosen't take up all kinds of room has good sound I don't like my ears to ring. I also have a two year old so its nice I can adjust the bass level easy from dash. Mine was free so for that price it works great. You can use the stock speaker wire to feed the sub high pass and to remote turn on. Or you can use rca low pass and remote wire.
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Basslink ... 278&sr=8-1

[impreza_GC8]

It is attached to a bracket that shares a seat rail mounting bolt. You would know if you had it. You can feel it just by reaching under there.

[Brockley]

Alpine TypeS in all four doors, kicker 10" in the spare tire well, alpine 9886 head unit. thats what I run. sounds amazing. the older Alpine TypeR 6.5" will NOT fit behind the factory door panel. the newer ones are slightly slimmer, they may fit.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Is the sub an option? I thought it was standard on the Limited Model? (it could of been broken or sold like huffer said)

Alpine TypeS in all four doors, kicker 10" in the spare tire well, alpine 9886 head unit. thats what I run. sounds amazing. the older Alpine TypeR 6.5" will NOT fit behind the factory door panel. the newer ones are slightly slimmer, they may fit.

Do you have the Type-S's amped at all or just running off the 9886? Does the kicker make a huge difference or not?

I think I'm going to go with the CDA-105 for a HU because its $200 and the the CDA-9886 and 9887's are $300

[Brockley]

the Type-S speakers are running off the deck- puts out around 22watt RMS. Without an amp on the door speakers, they are extremely clean sounding, but do lack the lower bass. With an amp, they do have better bass response, but instead of an amp, I would put some DynoMat door kits and leave it running off the amp.

The Kicker is tuned at a lower volume, and is in a sealed fiberglass enclosure I built in the tire well. It is extremely clean sounding. you can crank it up to +15db and it is very loud, but at +3db it just supplements the speakers very well.

It really depends on what you want to do: if you dont want a sub, get some nice front door speakers and a 2 channel amp under the pass. seat.

[Huffer]

So you think an alpine HU, Type-R components up front and Type-R's in back with no subs would be better than spending a ton of money on subs?

No, read what I wrote again. I said a simple system without a subwoofer but adding sound deadening around the speakers is ideal for someone looking for clear, tight sound. And the sound deadening (Dynamat Xtreme for example) weighs less than a road cone. You can lose the same amount of weight simply by take the spare tire out.

And if you are really set on a subwoofer you can always add it in afterward...I just don't think they're necessary in such a small, closed in space like a car.

I don't think you'll do what I've suggested, as you really seem set on the amp + subwoofer route.

Interesting that the subwoofer is under the driver's seat. The previous 4 Subaru's I did speaker installs on had the factory subwoofer on the passenger side. I wonder if that's a RHD/LHD thing?

[nomad666666]

whoever installed it at the dealer thing.

[Huffer]

Alpine TypeS in all four doors, kicker 10" in the spare tire well, alpine 9886 head unit. thats what I run. sounds amazing. the older Alpine TypeR 6.5" will NOT fit behind the factory door panel. the newer ones are slightly slimmer, they may fit.

Yup, the old Type-R's required a 1" spacer and the door skin had to be heated and stretched slightly (ask me how I know! ).

Current 2010 specs for Alpine gear:

TypeR SPR-17S
6-1/2" Component 2-Way Speaker System
Frequency Response: 65Hz - 27kHz

TypeS SPS-600C
6-1/2" Component 2-Way Speaker System
Frequency Response: 70Hz - 22kHz

^^ you can see that the Type R has a slightly wider frequency response range, but even more amazing is the Alpine TypeX
SPX-13PRO
5-1/4" Component 2-Way Speaker
Frequency Response: 40Hz - 60kHz

Comparison on 12" Alpine Subwoofers:
SWR-1242D 12" Subwoofer (4? + 4?) Frequency Response: 25Hz - 500Hz
SWS-1243D 12" Subwoofer (4?+4?) Frequency Response: 27Hz - 700Hz
SWX-1243D 12" Subwoofer Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz

You can see where the subwoofer "adds" in the sound range - the issue is that most people cannot hear anything below 30Hz anyway. Here's a poor pictogram to show you:


Based on my new findings today it looks like the Type X speakers are pretty amazing, having such a wide response range means you really may not have to run a sub at all! They are pricey as heck though.

But, I digress...

[ScaryFatKidGT]

thanks for the advice i dont know about subs but i do want an amp whats the point of running type-s speakers (80 watts) or type-R (110 watts) on just the 18 or 22 watts the HU puts out?

and il look into some dyna matt it will only add like 5lbs max? i always though it was really dense and heavy to stop sound, I wanna take my spare out but im paranoid as soon as i take it out and i get a mile or more from my house my tire will fall off or something and i wont have a spare lol

and Type-X's are the shit...at like $350 for a set. You may not be able to "hear base" below 20-30hz but you can feel it and that "sounds" pretty sweet when its mixed in with what you can hear.

[Huffer]

You really should look into sound deadening. The technology has come a LONG way.

[Legacy89]

Do not see yourself blind on the wattage, remember to look at the sensitivity of the speakers as well. Higher is better.
I just got Polk|Momo 6.5" Coax and Component speakers for my front and rear doors. Got the 6x9" a couple of years ago and they sounded great. Im going for Alpine PDX 1.1000 and 4.150 to power the system. I will also be using the Kenwood HU i got.

[Huffer]

6x9s are crap. The only reason they put out a wider range of frequency is becuase they're oval, but they actually compromise tonality and clarity because they are a compromised shape. No one in a pro audio situation is going to use oval speakers for anything, not even rear fill. I'll use a subwoofer before I compromise with 6x9s.

[Brockley]

I'll use a subwoofer before I compromise with 6x9s.

I agree to a point. 6x9s do suck, but for the price, they are a good option to many people for rear fill. considering a pair of 6x9s running off a deck will have decent bass, its a cheap, decent option.

Get a great set of 6.5" doors and a 10" sub.

done.

[Brockley]

Oh, and great news the newer Type R's fit. I haven't been an Installer for over 1 1/2 years now, so havent been keeping up with car audio as much. I would def get a set of those and a sub. Actually, If anyone is interested in a pair of brand new Type S 6.5" let me know. I also have the pair that has been in my front doors for a year or so, which still sound 100% brand new... I already have a fosgate 2x100 amp to run some Type R's....

[Legacy89]

Im not a pro with audio but the 6x9's was the only speakers i bothered to fit in the BC. Besides a single decent set of 6x9 is easily better than stock speakers.

[Brockley]

Im not a pro with audio but the 6x9's was the only speakers i bothered to fit in the BC. Besides a single decent set of 6x9 is easily better than stock speakers.

yea, dont take me wrong, 6x9's aren't going to sound "bad" by any means, a good set of 6x9s are gonna be great for 99% of people. But for audiophiles, oval cone=no

[jamesanderson1]

Yeah I also think in the same way. Its a better option for them.

[Tlake]

the Type-S speakers are running off the deck- puts out around 22watt RMS. Without an amp on the door speakers, they are extremely clean sounding, but do lack the lower bass. With an amp, they do have better bass response, but instead of an amp, I would put some DynoMat door kits and leave it running off the amp.

The Kicker is tuned at a lower volume, and is in a sealed fiberglass enclosure I built in the tire well. It is extremely clean sounding. you can crank it up to +15db and it is very loud, but at +3db it just supplements the speakers very well.

It really depends on what you want to do: if you dont want a sub, get some nice front door speakers and a 2 channel amp under the pass. seat.

How hard was it to make the fiberglass enclosure in the tire well. I know a couple of my buddies have been messing around with making fiberglass enclosures, and I've always wanted to put a sub down there, throw a little bit of pulsing neons and a sheet of plexiglass over top, it would be tight.

[green97gt]

wait, what?

98gt's have a factory sub?

im not at all into car radio

but i did not know this.

do the 97s?

im tempted to go look under the front seat of the wifes when she gets home...
or the 97 outback limited. will it have one?

[Huffer]

Depends if the dealer installed one from factory, or if it was installed after purchase. It's not a big deal, the factory sub is adequate and it breaks a lot. You're better to get upgraded front and rear speakers matched with a good headunit.

[riceboyler]

Had to resurrect this thread, as I find Huffer's comments quite intriguing. As a car audio (Sound Quality and Sound Pressure) judge for the past 15 years, his points are very on target, with one exception. I believe you need a decent small sub, with relatively low power, to get the full low-end extension for optimal sound. If you're blasting down the road at 70, you'll probably never hear below 40Hz, but even though the Alpine Type-Xs are amazing, they're still not large enough to move enough air at that low of a frequency to not end up with upper-octave harmonic distortion. They can play to 40Hz, but they distortion of the cone will cause the rest of the frequency spectrum to be colored differently (different timbre) due to the harmonics.

Sorry, I know that's a little technical, but acoustics and sound quality is something I've spent a great deal of time researching, as I went to school for Sound Engineering. Yeah, I'm a little passionate about it.