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Thread: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycargoesvroom
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison
    Sti head gaskets.

    Btw, this should put an end to all the debate of the ej25d being weaksauce.
    http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t39629-boosted-ej25d.html
    Skully is a beast.
    Holy Shit.
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    1964 Triumph Spitfire 4 Mark 1 -47K -First Love. Continuous Project. #BeingTopless 50whp of British fury!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    SLi Resident mycargoesvroom's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    This used to be Skully's car a few years back http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2039969

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    What a monster, I hope who ever gets it doesn't destroy it.

    Will the coolant channels flow well? I've heard that the STi head gaskets make the heads heat up more than the block.
    -Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    SLi Resident mycargoesvroom's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Actually the current owner destroyed it and is now parting it out

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    t3h ub3r m3mber Garrison's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycargoesvroom
    Actually the current owner destroyed it and is now parting it out
    Link to thread?
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycargoesvroom
    Actually the current owner destroyed it and is now parting it out
    Such a shame :'(
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    SLi Lurker csweston's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    I've always heard that STi head gaskets will cause the pistons and valves to hit?

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by csweston
    I've always heard that STi head gaskets will cause the pistons and valves to hit?
    I don't think so, as long as your timing is correct you shouldn't have that issue.
    -Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    SLi Resident mycargoesvroom's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison
    Quote Originally Posted by mycargoesvroom
    Actually the current owner destroyed it and is now parting it out
    Link to thread?
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2189077

    It hasn't been updated in a few months so I'm not sure what he's doing with it. He'd had it for sale with bad headgaskets for months, then fixed it and broke something else then started the part out.

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Ok, so after a few months of thinking/gathering some parts, I've decided I'll boost a 2.2 then work my way to the hybrid build. How would the VF11 handle boosting a n/a 2.2? Will the compression ratio throw me off or would I be alright?

    Also, I had a though. How do these sort of builds hold up in cold weather? what sort of precautions and maintenance do you need to do to keep your engine running properly in a colder environment?

    Thanks Guys =]
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

  11. #41
    t3h ub3r m3mber Garrison's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    The comp. ratio of a 2.2 isn't really going to give you problems at your boost levels, but just understand that it becomes a very limiting factory if you were to ever want to crank up the boost. High comp. + lot'sa timing + >8-10psi boost = knock, knock, boom.

    Your goal is to help the engine as much as possible, so things like an intercooler and premium fuel are a necessity. If you feel like dumping a few hundred more dollars into the setup, I would genuinely recommend a apexi SAFC as a basic means of controlling fuel (they also make a box for controlling spark/timing too). These will allow you to tune out all the niggles you're going to encounter when you build this.

    The build itself LOVES cold weather, (colder air is denser, contains more molecules, better more powerful combustion). What won't love it is your oil. Change it something like 5w, or 0w synthetic (always use synthetic from now on. The oil holds heat much better due to it's synthesized [read: consistent] manufacturing) for the winter and go back to 10w or 15w in the summer.
    People will say colder plugs help... I'm not convinced. I ran 1-step colder NGK's and ended up having to pull them 4 or 5 times to get them to gap down properly, .027" gap(still got misfires at idle) and when I pulled them out they had a solid coating of black around them (unburned carbon deposits), which could have caused it. But, that being said, even the most offending cylinder for the misfires, cylinder #1, its sparkplug electrode was the color it was supposed to be after ~1000miles of driving (grayish-tan color). Also, colder plugs will help out up top in the rpm range. The colder plug removes heat from the combustion chamber thanks to its thicker core, it transfers the heat to the heads, so you'll notice the heater running much warmer while you use them (not such a bad thing in the winter, eh? ). This allows the combustion chamber to run hotter (like if you were using a turbo that was too small and running the dog shit out of it, for instance) without risking detonation.

    Are the necessary....? No. Are they helpful, absolutely. The decision is yours, but if you had EM I would recommend them. If not, look for misfires at idle and carbon on the plugs.


    Edid: I just looked at your location, and colder plugs would be a bitch to start in the depths of winter. Basically anytime the temps drop below freezing it's going to be a little bit of a PITA to get it started. Once your get it started though, it's all good.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison
    The comp. ratio of a 2.2 isn't really going to give you problems at your boost levels, but just understand that it becomes a very limiting factory if you were to ever want to crank up the boost. High comp. + lot'sa timing + >8-10psi boost = knock, knock, boom.
    Well yeah lol. In the future when I upgrade I'll get external engine management so my engine doesn't go boom, Like I said earlier in this post I'm just starting out so I'm looking into a very basic and easy build to learn on. I'd only run about 5lbs of boost on the n/a 2.2 I didn't know how much of a difference it would be from the turbo spec 2.2. I have an intercooler I'll be adding so that won't be an issue =]

    Yeah New York winters can be a bitch, soooo I'll probably not go with the colder plugs right now lol. That and I just changed my plugs about 5,000 miles ago with NGKs =]
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    How long do you think it would take to swap a 2.2 block onto an already running 2.5 thats in the car? Maybe not turbo right away. But just get the motor in and running. I would like to get a 2.2 in my DD, but I would have to do it on the weekend. Going to use a 2.2 block with my 2.5 heads and a cheap TD-04 (for now).
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    t3h ub3r m3mber Garrison's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    I'm not positive on this, but I think dropping your compression ratio that low without turboing, it will probably not want to run right. Might as well plan the whole build and compete it in a 3 day weekend or something.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Got it. Thats what I was thinking would happen. So I'm going to have to put away some time for this. Thanks Garrison.
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Sure thing. Also, I'd forgo the TD-04, and just spring for a TD-05H or some other 16g sized turbo. Or the vf39 is a solid OEM choice as well. My point being these turbos would far more easily create a very linear surge of power, giving you a very usable torque band and higer RPM pull, where the TD-04 will choke out (create excessive heat, psi tapers down, etc). Anything above 4000RPM really and it's started to die off.
    Therefore, don't even bother wasting your money on the TD-04. Go straight for the throat and get what you want the first time. It's what I wish I'd done when I turbo'ed my soob.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    how much boost would I have to run to get around 300 WHP? with a TD-04 and TD-05?
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    remember boost is kinda irrelevant. because of the volumetric efficiency of all engines are different. (volume vs. pressure)
    7lbs on a EJ25 heads is about 10-11lbs on EJ22E heads
    the 22 with 25 heads will lower your compression to 8.9:1-9:1 ish (depending on which gen EJ22). which is pretty much ideal for turboing.
    it will run and drive just fine. but it would be kinda gutless with out a turbo (about 120-130HP). thats the engine i
    have in my car, and on 7lbs of boost i make about 200HP ish. if you want to hit 300 you will probably
    need about 12-14lbs of boost, with a proper tune and supporting mods. a TD04 will do just fine.
    BTW your current gearbox wont hold that much power. i think you should aim for 250HP.
    ive only heard of 1 guy that put 275-300hp to that transmission.. he told me that he used a really soft clutch disk (so it would slip before it broke the gears) some pro-race quallity gear oil, and drove it really nice.. he went thru 3 transmissions a year. longest any of them lasted was about 8,000 miles.
    so unless you are upgrading the trans i wouldn't go that high. besides. our cars are lighter than WRXs and STis so we need less power to achieve the same acceleration.
    No, no ,no I'm not insulting you, I'm describing you!

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    You think my transmission could hold 250 WHP? Would a JDM 5 speed hold 300? I don't know a lot about transmissions..
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    t3h ub3r m3mber Garrison's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    All subie 5-speeds are relatively weak, especially when compared to the sti 6-speed. I would think 250whp is probably as high as you'd want to go.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    What about for an auto? Can they handle more power?
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    .... Usually, yes. Due to their thicker, more heavier-duty parts (e.g. manuals will usually weigh 100's of pounds (lb) less than their identical, except automatic counterparts). But please don't take that as an endorsement of the automatic's purported strength. I would think that while it probably would handle twice the factory hp, it's life would be cut severely shorter for the experience. Especially if you were to ever drive it hard.

    I'm not sure if this applies to the 2003-5 H6 though. I would like to believe that subaru would do things right and re-engineer a new transmission for the increased torque and horsepower output of the H6 engine, but I don't actually know for certain.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Well I understand what your saying Garrison, but I think I'm just gonna stick with a TD-04 for now. I found a few that are very cheap and I will stay low on the boost at first to avoid having to get an F/I Controller. Maybe 7psi. Also, if you build your up/downpipe yourself will you still need a turbo model crossmember? Will a WRX crossmember bolt up?
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Nope, that's how I avoided swapping crossmembers; but you need a good welder to go this route.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    ^That's what I plan on doing.

    What do you use to hold the turbo in place?
    -Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    The up-pipe?
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    I don't think the turbo is suppose to be held in place by the up-pipe and intake, which is why I asked lol. Are there some sort of brackets to rig up to hold the turbo?
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
    1996 Subaru Legacy L -192K -Rust in Peace
    1996 Subaru Outback -214K -Drove into ground
    1999 Subaru Outback Limited -195K -Kiara. EJ22D. 5 speed swapped dual sunroof BG
    1990 Volvo 240 sedan -220K -B230F. M47. I Drift Bro.
    1964 Triumph Spitfire 4 Mark 1 -47K -First Love. Continuous Project. #BeingTopless 50whp of British fury!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

  28. #58
    t3h ub3r m3mber Garrison's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    I had the thought to use something custom on my build, but for something like a td-04 the work is done for you, because there is bracket on the wrx that secures the turbo. That being said, between the up and down pipe as well as the intercooler, the turbo doesn't really move around.

    I did not use a brace and had no movement in my gargantuan t4.
    I've been to boost and back again my friends... and it was good

  29. #59
    t3h ub3r m3mber nikolaus.conrad's Avatar
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    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    Gotcha, I'm still going with a vf11 to boost a 2.2 so I think I'll be good.
    -Nick
    1991 Subaru Legacy L -221K -Killed in action
    1996 Subaru Legacy L -192K -Rust in Peace
    1996 Subaru Outback -214K -Drove into ground
    1999 Subaru Outback Limited -195K -Kiara. EJ22D. 5 speed swapped dual sunroof BG
    1990 Volvo 240 sedan -220K -B230F. M47. I Drift Bro.
    1964 Triumph Spitfire 4 Mark 1 -47K -First Love. Continuous Project. #BeingTopless 50whp of British fury!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    The EJ25D likes to blow its head gaskets in a spectacular manner, leaking combustion gasses into places it's not supposed to go; giving you the world's worst tasting milkshake.

  30. #60
    t3h ub3r m3mber lord flashheart's Avatar
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    5000 Experience PointsO.G.

    Re: How to turbo a hybrid motor?

    250whp is roughly 330chp. So...... no the trans won't hold that.
    You people need to realize that 200-220whp is quite a bit. Here in Utah a bone stock STi usually only gets about 210 to the ground.

    I am editing this. I have since pushed 3 of our cars stock transmissions up in the 300+WHP with no problem. But i stand by my statement of 220whp being alot.
    Last edited by lord flashheart; 02-23-2015 at 11:42 PM.
    No, no ,no I'm not insulting you, I'm describing you!

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