H6 or WRX/XT swap?

[Dead91silvia]

This is for my 98 BD GT "RS". I got just about all the cosmetics finished, now time for some balls!

Alright, so I'm starting to look at possible motor swaps, the old N/A EJ25 has 270K and is getting tired. I have always had my heart set on a Turbo, however I'm noticing that the H6 has a good amount of power as well. This will be at some track days and to kill the occasional Honda or Noob WRX driver for giggles!

Still up in the air about doing auto or manual. Living in Seattle traffic is one thing I look at. I hate driving my BH 5 speed in the city, but I have a blast with it in the open... So this poll does not include a preference to tranys, but do add your $0.10. I would like to know if they have weak or strong points to an H6 auto/5 speed or a WRX auto/5 speed.

I will be getting a complete car as a donor for the swap. (I have my connections)

H6 swap (USDM):
Pros
-N/A, no waiting for a turbo to spool up, the power is right there!
-no premium?
-Less parts to break (turbos and such)
-Not a common swap at all!

Cons
-Changing spark plugs will suck!
-It's bigger and heavy
-I have never worked on one before at all

WRX/XT swap (USDM):
Pros
-I love the sound of a turbo spooling and the sound of a blow off valve!
-Same basic set up as a EJ2.5
-Easy power gains
-I know how to work on them (customers XT Outback)
-Parts are available

Cons
-Turbos are not cheap
-Runs premium only
-Synthetic oil only
-Everyone does it

Now I'm a little new to Subaru swaps. I dont know if the H6 has problems or the WRX/XT motors do ether. I have heard a few problems with the XT's and turbos eating up the motors, but thats it. I know Nissan swaps better then anything, but this is obviously not the same! I'm also wanting to retain my cruse and AC.

Please leave some constructive feedback!

[Reason]

Turbo H6 will scratch both itches

[Dead91silvia]

Turbo H6 will scratch both itches

HA! Yeah, I make me more broke then I am now! haha

[Huffer]

For ease of install, the WRX swap is best. You don't lose much space in the engine bay, tuning is a piece of cake and additional upgrades are plentiful.

You DONT need to run synth oils in a turbo motor. Just the right grade of oil.
The H6 engines all run premium - or at least better than 87. Tuning is hard though, you're essentially looking at a standalone to maximise potential.
The EG33 is a fairly straightforward electrical swap, it's the mechanical clearances that are terrible.
The EZ30 is much tougher, as that ECU is looking for an auto trans module.

If you're wanting reliability in traffic, then I would go with the WRX swap. You can pick up a front clip with the harness, ECU and dash, and have at it. With someone that has your chops, I'm betting you could do it in less than 2 weeks. Me, I'd take a year, lose interest and go buy a WRX.

[d1giPhux]

Why not a 2.5 GT turbo engine out of a newer legacy?

[httrdd]

You know what I am partial to, but I would say EZ30/EZ30R. Emissions will thank you and parts are less worn down due to age. I would recomend what Reason said too if you want to be different! With my Eg33 swap the spark plugs are easier to work on then the engine being in a Svx. Weight is not as big of an issue as you think if you stip the a/c and move the battery to the back. It is only a 70lb difference. I love the sound and the drivability of the H6.

[subie/legacy]

Wrx/xt gets my vote. Like you said turbo, bov noise, plenty of aftermarket support, and I'm hoping your going with 2.5 not the common 2.0 swap.
Whatever route you go. Its still a 2nd gen, so yeah.

[csweston]

EZ engine all out, instant power! Just run a link ecu and youll get full tune-ability and easier wiring.

[Garrison]

I'm in for turbo-ing the H6. You could have a low-mount turbo, or SC, and bonus, the H6's are built like tanks. Can you say "timing chain"?
I only wish I knew the compression specs on the 6, as from my understanding it's basically an ej22 with 2 extra cylinders slapped on, and a redone front end. If you could run even 5psi of boost in it, you'd be looking at something in the range of stg. 1 Sti killer.

Oh, and I prefer a manual. But, but, but, auto's will usually hold more power.

[mshriver]

Do you want big power eventually or just something better than you have now. I vote turbo motor but I like h6's too. I dont think it will be easy to retain your AC with the eg33 though.

[Dead91silvia]

Why not a 2.5 GT turbo engine out of a newer legacy?

Thats the reference to the XT... I should have included later GT also, but yeah, thats the other one I'm looking at.

For ease of install, the WRX swap is best. You don't lose much space in the engine bay, tuning is a piece of cake and additional upgrades are plentiful.

You DONT need to run synth oils in a turbo motor. Just the right grade of oil.
The H6 engines all run premium - or at least better than 87. Tuning is hard though, you're essentially looking at a standalone to maximise potential.
The EG33 is a fairly straightforward electrical swap, it's the mechanical clearances that are terrible.
The EZ30 is much tougher, as that ECU is looking for an auto trans module.

If you're wanting reliability in traffic, then I would go with the WRX swap. You can pick up a front clip with the harness, ECU and dash, and have at it. With someone that has your chops, I'm betting you could do it in less than 2 weeks. Me, I'd take a year, lose interest and go buy a WRX.

Thanks for the corrections/input! However, what are the mechanical difficulty's with an H6? If I did go this route, I would be getting a BE/BH for the swap. Saw 2 of them driving last night! haha... I dont know the difference with EZ30 or EG33...

You know what I am partial to, but I would say EZ30/EZ30R. Emissions will thank you and parts are less worn down due to age. I would recomend what Reason said too if you want to be different! With my Eg33 swap the spark plugs are easier to work on then the engine being in a Svx. Weight is not as big of an issue as you think if you stip the a/c and move the battery to the back. It is only a 70lb difference. I love the sound and the drivability of the H6.

Car is still gonna have AC and Batt in the bay. What is the EZ30R in? I would think about doing a turbo on a H6, but I'm looking for bolt in power. I know wiring might be a bit of a pain with ether one...

I'm in for turbo-ing the H6. You could have a low-mount turbo, or SC, and bonus, the H6's are built like tanks. Can you say "timing chain"?
I only wish I knew the compression specs on the 6, as from my understanding it's basically an ej22 with 2 extra cylinders slapped on, and a redone front end. If you could run even 5psi of boost in it, you'd be looking at something in the range of stg. 1 Sti killer.

Oh, and I prefer a manual. But, but, but, auto's will usually hold more power.

Like I said, I'm looking for ease of swap. I know ether motor will bolt in, just dont think I'm ready for doing a hybrid motor. yet, to that level anyway. If I was gonna get that crazy, I would do a Nissan SR... haha! I know those motors!

[Dead91silvia]

Do you want big power eventually or just something better than you have now. I vote turbo motor but I like h6's too. I dont think it will be easy to retain your AC with the eg33 though.

I'm looking for a sleeper. Kinda hard to pull off now with the GT-B Limited bumper, but still.

Basic thing I'm looking at, I know the power that comes from an XT Outback (friends 05 5 speed). It's faster then what I have now. but gets decent mileage. I just dont like the throttle delay is all and I did drive a 06 GT sedan and didnt really like it like I do my BD.

I have yet to drive a H6 car, so I'm not sure what they feel like. I guess I should go for a test drive in one.

One thing I should also point out. I like my stuff to be mechanical and instant! My friend 05 XT is fun, but the electronic throttle sucks balls! not sure when that was incorporated into the Subaru's, but I would like to avoid that.

The final goal is to have a car that can maybe hang with a stock STi. Not necessarily beat it, but give it a run for its money! Maybe when I have more funds, it would be nice to beat it. I know the turbo motors have more tunablity then the H6, I just wanna know if the H6 being N/A can hang with at least a WRX?

[httrdd]

Hang a Wrx and smoke them. Lol. I took out my buddies 05 LGT Stage 1 on the highway the other day too. Only power mods I am running is a Borla 3" cat-back, third cat delete, and an intake cone.

[subie/legacy]

The only differences I know about the EG-EZ is the EG is a bit longer being the cause for the fabrication for mounting the radiator. The EZ is shorter possibly letting you mount the radiator in the stock location, but if I remember correctly it has less hp/tq. Uses timing chain.

I would also go with a manual transmission, cause I personalty feel like I have more control over the vehicle, and keeps me from getting to bored while driving.

[Huffer]

Have a look at keltik's threads - he has an EZ30R in his GTB.

[Wiscon_Mark]

If you're considering automatic, go with the H6. Having all that lower end power makes an automatic not nearly as annoying or useless.

But I'd vote going with a newer EZ 3.6L engine - more power than the EG33 and stock fitment. The only tricky bit is sorting out the wiring if you go manual. And you need a manual that can handle that lower end power all the time.

[prodriver1]

5.3L chev V-8!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking about it

[Dead91silvia]

Have a look at keltik's threads - he has an EZ30R in his GTB.

I did! Thats the only reason I'm even thinking about doing a H6! That car hauls ass! Love that thing!

If you're considering automatic, go with the H6. Having all that lower end power makes an automatic not nearly as annoying or useless.

But I'd vote going with a newer EZ 3.6L engine - more power than the EG33 and stock fitment. The only tricky bit is sorting out the wiring if you go manual. And you need a manual that can handle that lower end power all the time.

Yeah, this true. I did get a change to drive my friends turbo swapped 98 Forester with an auto (he built it for the wife). It was kinda ballsy! So thats the only reason I would even think about doing a WRX/XT turbo.

As for the other motor, I cant even find a used one...

5.3L chev V-8!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking about it

Ha! I have a friend that just put one in a Miata! Told him I wanna drive it when he's done.
But no, if I do a swap, it will be a Boxer... No V8's here. If I did do one, it would be in an L or something not my JDM'ed GT...

[httrdd]

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t168214 ... block.html

[TGX4776]

eg33 all the way. I am looking into that myself at the moment.

[mshriver]

Do you want big power eventually or just something better than you have now. I vote turbo motor but I like h6's too. I dont think it will be easy to retain your AC with the eg33 though.

I'm looking for a sleeper. Kinda hard to pull off now with the GT-B Limited bumper, but still.

Basic thing I'm looking at, I know the power that comes from an XT Outback (friends 05 5 speed). It's faster then what I have now. but gets decent mileage. I just dont like the throttle delay is all and I did drive a 06 GT sedan and didnt really like it like I do my BD.

One thing I should also point out. I like my stuff to be mechanical and instant! My friend 05 XT is fun, but the electronic throttle sucks balls! not sure when that was incorporated into the Subaru's, but I would like to avoid that.

The final goal is to have a car that can maybe hang with a stock STi. Not necessarily beat it, but give it a run for its money! Maybe when I have more funds, it would be nice to beat it. I know the turbo motors have more tunablity then the H6, I just wanna know if the H6 being N/A can hang with at least a WRX?

You have to realize both of those cars are way heavier than yours. Also you dont have to stick with a drive by wire setup. An Ej20 swap would have plenty of pep and is drive by cable. And with a stg 2 cobb (tuner, exhaust, and intake) would hang with a stock sti.

I have yet to drive a H6 car, so I'm not sure what they feel like. I guess I should go for a test drive in one.

It will feel like a dog. The H6 is offered in cars that are heavy as nuts. My Mom has an 01 outback with the ez30 and its nothing special in that car.... It has a hard time getting up and going on highway on ramps. I cant even imagine how slow a 2.5 outback must be. Same with the SVX, big heavy car. But in a lighter weight legacy Im sure it would be pretty fun. The issue is going to be whether you are willing to lose the AC because I dont think its possible to keep it. Also consider the hood latch because people often end up cutting that out to make more room and using hood pins

[Wiscon_Mark]

It will feel like a dog. The H6 is offered in cars that are heavy as nuts. My Mom has an 01 outback with the ez30 and its nothing special in that car.... It has a hard time getting up and going on highway on ramps. I cant even imagine how slow a 2.5 outback must be.

The EZ30 in that car didn't make nearly as much power as the later EZ30R or the EZ36, and the 01 Outback H6 model was hundreds of pounds heavier than the standard Outback. I really doubt it was all the engine either, the block isn't that much bigger than an EJ25 block actually. Add that to an outdated automatic, and yeah, it'll feel fairly slow.

[Dead91silvia]

Alright... from both sides...

What is the MPG of both motor setups?
H6.... including other versions.... 3.0 3.5... yada yada...

2.0 and 2.5 Turbo cars...

I know my friends 05 XT 2.5 turbo Outback can pull 25 highway (have seen it), but as low as 15... (me driving... muahaha)

[Garrison]

I've heard of 2.0 Rex's getting 27-30hwy but never seen it personally. My roommates 2003 H6 gets him about 22-24 on the best of days, and terrible mpg in town. 16-18 I believe.

The problem with any performance engine is running premium without getting golf diesel mpg.

[Reason]

Turbo H6 will scratch both itches

I like what this guy said.

[chuckthefuk]

H6 swap (USDM):

Pros
- Torque Monsters
- Unique exhaust tone
- Rare..

Cons
- Very little development/support for EG/EZ motors.
- Recommend 91 octane... Even the EJ25D is 91 recommend. Low octane can cause Pinging.
- Machine shops will treat this motors as 1/3 more labor.. Cost goes up. 2 heads with 2 extra sections..
- Gas Guzzler!

- EG = Massive.. heavy.. weight distribution is thrown off in the BD chassis.
-- Radiator relocation needed.. (pushed forward)
-- Parts are harder to find...
-- Age of motor. Even @ 50,000 miles the seals after almost 2 decades start to fail.
-- ECU battle with the TCU and 4EAT.

- EZ = Smaller... lighter.. ECU nightmare (immobilizer) or full standalone..
-- A member on SLi posted his EZ swap and gave great detail about the issues with the variable intake manifold and issues with the ECU still thinking its an automatic.
-- The cost of an EZ30R vs the EZ30 is astronomical


WRX/XT swap (USDM):
Pros
- Fuel ECO Mode if you don't drive with boost.
- Proper designed weight distribution... Subaru designed the GC/BD to use 4 cylinders with turbo(s)
- Dozens of turbo/IC configurations... Stock, rotated, twin setup, ffim, tmic, smic, etc...
- Used turbos are cheap and with some knowledge easily rebuild-able
- Used parts are a steal! Even the brand name aftermarket bits.


I love when members attack a H6 swap.. but get disappointed when they relies they bit off more then they can chew.

H6 swaps are not cheap.. They are unique and torque monsters but refining them to meet your needs takes time, money and blood on the shop floor.

I voted H4 for simplicity for "up and running" setups.

-Chuck

[Dead91silvia]

Turbo H6 will scratch both itches

I like what this guy said.

HAHA.... NO!!!! I think your doing this... :smt033 heh heh....

H6 swap (USDM):

Pros
- Torque Monsters
- Unique exhaust tone
- Rare..

Cons
- Very little development/support for EG/EZ motors.
- Recommend 91 octane... Even the EJ25D is 91 recommend. Low octane can cause Pinging.
- Machine shops will treat this motors as 1/3 more labor.. Cost goes up. 2 heads with 2 extra sections..
- Gas Guzzler!

- EG = Massive.. heavy.. weight distribution is thrown off in the BD chassis.
-- Radiator relocation needed.. (pushed forward)
-- Parts are harder to find...
-- Age of motor. Even @ 50,000 miles the seals after almost 2 decades start to fail.
-- ECU battle with the TCU and 4EAT.

- EZ = Smaller... lighter.. ECU nightmare (immobilizer) or full standalone..
-- A member on SLi posted his EZ swap and gave great detail about the issues with the variable intake manifold and issues with the ECU still thinking its an automatic.
-- The cost of an EZ30R vs the EZ30 is astronomical


WRX/XT swap (USDM):
Pros
- Fuel ECO Mode if you don't drive with boost.
- Proper designed weight distribution... Subaru designed the GC/BD to use 4 cylinders with turbo(s)
- Dozens of turbo/IC configurations... Stock, rotated, twin setup, ffim, tmic, smic, etc...
- Used turbos are cheap and with some knowledge easily rebuild-able
- Used parts are a steal! Even the brand name aftermarket bits.


I love when members attack a H6 swap.. but get disappointed when they relies they bit off more then they can chew.

H6 swaps are not cheap.. They are unique and torque monsters but refining them to meet your needs takes time, money and blood on the shop floor.

I voted H4 for simplicity for "up and running" setups.

-Chuck

That is some good info right there! Like I said, when I do a swap, I will get the whole car. So if I did do an H6, it would also get the trans and other goodies to make it all work in stock form...

I'm now thinking that if I wanna stay Auto, I'll do an H6. If I go Manual, I will do the Turbo H4... I can make things mechanically fit, but I HATE wiring and ECU problems!

Sounds like the MPG's are close to the same with H6 and turbo so thats not really a factor...

[Yamazaki]

I'm now thinking that if I wanna stay Auto, I'll do an H6. If I go Manual, I will do the Turbo H4... I can make things mechanically fit, but I HATE wiring and ECU problems!

That sounds like the best idea. The guy that everybody says did an EZ swap (keltik) didn't swap the engine. He has a GT30 so he already had the H6 (EZ30D). He swapped the auto transmission to a 5MT which is (I'm guessing) why his issues are with the trans.

I looked for a 3.0L that came with a M/T, and found the 3.0R SpecB ('04-'06) that was a 3.0L 6MT. All of those came with the EZ30R. If you could source one of those, you should be able to have your cake and eat it too. And if you get the '06 you can have the Si-Drive as well!

Having said all that - I say go with the WRX/XT swap. You'd finish sooner which means you get to enjoy it sooner. And they make more power.

[Dead91silvia]

I'm looking more into the WRX/XT/STi swaps right now...

I just need to know what I'm looking to spend... thinking if things go well and after my Pulsar is on the road I might try get a doner car by Summer... Just an idea...

I still might do the H6, but I'm having too much fun shifting my BH so I'm thinking I want a manual...

[Huffer]

You have the mechanical cajones... do this:

EZ30R + 6MT + LinkPlus ECU.
That's all you'd need (besides maybe a different rear diff to keep your ratios solid).