Front End Damage...Back On the Road!

[RandyMarsh303]

So I may just be the shortest term member ever to be at sl-i if this does not get resolved. Here is the story, I allowed my brother to take my car because his jeep was in the shop. Upon returning to my house with my car he was driving through the parking lot into the sun and drove dead center into a concrete light post. The radiator and fans are smashed. Radiator support is toasted and i have a pulley pushed into the timing belt cover. The engine should be fine but the radiator support im not so sure of. I was able to get things torn down a little to asses the damage. I stopped when i saw the timing belt cover. Tomorrow i will pull the crank pulley and check under the cover. The radiator support is available but has anyone ever replaced one. This thing is welded and bolted in place and im not sure its possible to salvage. If anyone has any advice how to remove the old one and or suggestions how to install the new one would be greatly appreciated. It was dark before i could take pictures so tomorrow I will upload so you can see. If the motor is done for then that wrx swap might come sooner then i thought it would. Thanks, Tim

[Reason]

That support beam can be replaced. You just need the right tools, the will to take it on, and a little bit of skill would come in handy.

[Okin DaVanh]

^---- +1

So I may just be the shortest term member ever to be at sl-i if this does not get resolved. Here is the story, I allowed my brother to take my car because his jeep was in the shop. Upon returning to my house with my car he was driving through the parking lot into the sun and drove dead center into a concrete light post.

The radiator and fans are smashed. Radiator support is toasted and i have a pulley pushed into the timing belt cover. The engine should be fine but the radiator support im not so sure of. I was able to get things torn down a little to asses the damage. I stopped when i saw the timing belt cover. Tomorrow i will pull the crank pulley and check under the cover. The radiator support is available but has anyone ever replaced one.

This thing is welded and bolted in place and im not sure its possible to salvage. If anyone has any advice how to remove the old one and or suggestions how to install the new one would be greatly appreciated. It was dark before i could take pictures so tomorrow I will upload so you can see. If the motor is done for then that wrx swap might come sooner then i thought it would. Thanks, Tim

I've replaced many. What exactly do you need to know?


From what I think you're asking:


On the old 1, locate all the spot welds (usually where they attach/weld to frame/lower support etc....) and drill out each with a drill bit or spot weld breaker (looks like a drill bit /hole saw) and pry off. Line up new 1, tack in place.

[Perdue]

Is there a possibility that the motor itself is damaged? Just thinking...the crank pulley is attached to some important stuff and a hit that hard on an aluminum block might have done something.

[Okin DaVanh]

Is there a possibility that the motor itself is damaged? Just thinking...the crank pulley is attached to some important stuff and a hit that hard on an aluminum block might have done something.

Yes and no John
In some cases, pulleys are made to take the grunt of a collision and collapse before causing more damage. I believe he has a "fair" chance of the motor surviving this. By the way OP, can you post some of those pics you mentioned?.... when you get a chance.

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok thanks for the fast response on this. Im headed over to the car now to check the the status of the engine and to start breaking the old support off. Thanks for the suggestions Okin if i have any other questions I will post them. Do you think I should just order the part new or cut one from a junk yard? I will post pictures when I take a Lunch break.

[Okin DaVanh]

Do you think I should just order the part new or cut one from a junk yard? I will post pictures when I take a Lunch break.

Well, that depends on you.

I'd put a new one on if the car was in great shape. Otherwise, if you (or the yard) cut it right and it never had any previous damage or rust, used 1 could be swapped in.

Heck, see if the salvage yard will give you all the pieces at once. IE. Grill/ support beam/ upper and lower tie bar (radiator support) etc... Some places around here, give you a better deal with the more you take off.

[Perdue]

Thanks, Okin. Like I said, just thinking.

I agree with trying to find the parts in a salvage yard though. Chances are, you could get every part you need from one car for less than half of buying new replacement parts. You will have to prep about the same with new parts anyways (wax/grease remover, sand, prime, sand).

[RandyMarsh303]

So first off it looks a worse then i probably described it. Second I agree, I think it will be much is easier to try and get it all at ounce. Third, here are the pictures i promised. Now in the daylight and after some more dissemblance it is obvious someone has replaced this in the past and not done the best job on top of that. You tell me what you guys think based on these and then i will voice my concerns.

Some of these are a little repetitive sorry

[Perdue]

That pulley just keep tension on the belt, so with a new bracket, it should be ok. If the frame rails are straight, I would just get new/used parts and bolt/weld them back on.

Edit: If it were me, I would also punch my brother in the head. Just saying.

[Okin DaVanh]

Edit: If it were me, I would also punch my brother in the head. Just saying.

Don't forget to pull that lower (Tie Bar) section straight before you tack in another. And yeah, definitely try to get a deal at your local yard considering you'll need a hood too if you don't already have 1.















How many miles does your car have? Wondering if it would be cheaper to buy another and swap parts over.... just a thought.

[RandyMarsh303]

Im taking a punch to his wallet and the he has to help me throughout this whole ordeal. The car has just under 138k and I have been looking but nothing really available at the moment. I am not worried about the engine everything looks ok. Okin when you say pull that lower tie bar straight are you speaking of this....



there is no saving this its beyond bending it back. Im gonna head to a yard hopefully wednesday, unfortunatly this is the week before finals so my time is limited. Im hoping to have this all back together by the end of sunday night this coming weekend.

[Okin DaVanh]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. However, after looking at it again, it doesn't appear to be pulling the drivers side rail inward after all.



Maybe you can just drill it out (but it looks like you chiseled the old 1 off) and set/weld the replacement back in place. GL

[RandyMarsh303]

thanks for all the help guys I will keep you updated on my progress

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok so I went to the junkyard today and made out like a bandit. Got a new bumper, bumper reinforcement, bumper beam, and the entire front clip for $102. The bumper is in better shape then the one I had before and ITS GREEN. I would have taken the radiator support from the green vehicle but someone had chopped it up already.



My plan is to cut all the rusty metal away from my car and then slide the new clip over the frame rails and weld it up. I will post pictures of the bumper later

[Okin DaVanh]

Ok so I went to the junkyard today and made out like a bandit. Got a new bumper, bumper reinforcement, bumper beam, and the entire front clip for $102. The bumper is in better shape then the one I had before and ITS GREEN. I would have taken the radiator support from the green vehicle but someone had chopped it up already.

Wow. I think I need to move closer to you! That IS a steal! RUN!!!! Before they find out where you live!!!



Did you get the tension/pulley set up too? If so, looks like you'll be done this weekend.




And:

So I may just be the shortest term member ever to be at sl-i

Not on our watch.

[Huffer]

WHOOOOHOOOO!!!!

[chuckthefuk]

smashed, cut, sourced. fixed...

like a true Gen 2 legacy owner.

Nice score with the front clip.. Anything that big and my u-pick-it yards try to squeeze me for every last dime.

Good luck
-Chuck

[prodriver1]

drove into a light pole? sounds like trying to go sideways was involved do you have snow there?

[RandyMarsh303]

smashed, cut, sourced. fixed...

like a true Gen 2 legacy owner.

Thanks

Okin I did not get the pulley but I will get that tomorrow. Also have a buddy who is in a automotive school here in town and is gonna get the radiator tomorrow for $100 (napa). AC condenser is the same cost but i might wait on that until after I find a hood. I located one with a scoop but its red Might just use this as an excuse to buy the paint for the whole car (Family discount 40% off at Sherwin Williams) Thanks for all the help guys I will keep the updates coming. And prodriver we do have snow and its falling right now. Just got snow tires a week ago and have not even used them yet.

[RandyMarsh303]

update: Just found ac condenser and radiator fans available from httrdd for a very very reasonable price. He is going to send them out tomorrow so being finished this weekend is out but definitely by next weekend. Going to get the timing belt cover and tension pulley now.

MY question to all of you is that is there anything i should be doing while all this is apart? I have thought about the timing belt but there is only about 3000 miles on it so not sure thats worth it. But what about any seals etc. that I should do while there are no obstructions?

[chuckthefuk]

Cam + Crank seals.
Tension-er / timing belt
new accessorie belts.
valve cover seals w/ spark plug o-rings and oil fill o-ring.

Skies the limit...

[Dead91silvia]

Looks like your on your way to having her fixed! I have done a ton of core suports on 2nd gen Legacys..

FYI: There are TWO different ac condensers and radiators. I think the year split is 97-98... The rad's will interchange, but you need to have the fans as well. The AC condenser's do not interchange, unless you also have the lines... Ran into the problem all the time with the cars I used to fix....

[RandyMarsh303]

Ok so here is my progress so far. I am feeling a little better about this whole thing now but I need your opinions on a couple of things. Sorry for the bad pics...

So here is what i did. I cut the frame rails on the car down so that only one bolt hole for the bumper beam was left. I then cut the front clip the same way so that the bumper beam will tie the two together.


Needed more light to take better pictures and I will post more detailed ones tomorrow


Unfortunately there are some larger gaps then I would like to admit to. These are between the car and the front clip (some as big as 1/2 in). I am unsure what to do with these. Should I just weld plates in to fill the gaps? or should I go back to the junk yard cut off another one and measure measure measure measure and measure again to get it nice and flush. I bolted the fenders up and other then a few adjustments they mocked up fine. Thanks again I look forward to your opinions.

[chuckthefuk]

DO NOT WELD PLATES!!!

go back to the yard and fine another one..

I am all for saving a few dollars here and there but not when it compromises the structural integrity and safety of your vehicle

Cutting into the frame rails like you did was not the best solution.

Every *plate* you weld in is another weak-link when dealing with another front impact scenario.

PLEASE!! PLEASE!! PLEASE!! LISTEN!

In the factory service manual you can find the body dimensions so you can compare your work to the factory specs.

Good Luck
-Chuck

[RandyMarsh303]

I knew the moment I cut into the rails that I did the wrong thing. I was just really unsure of any other way to be able to get the core support into a piece that was able to weld onto what I had. If it were not for that lower beam I would not have cut into the rails but it was directly tied into the layers of sheet metal that make up the rails. The reason I think I did this is because it was already rebuilt once before and the person before me did not do a very good job either. It left me hardly anything to work with. If the car is involved in another front end accident it will be the third one and at that point I will say goodbye because there is just no way i could feel safe even if a professional had rebuilt it in the past. Just for further reference what would you have done to get this support back on. And the reason i asked about the plates is not to save money but at this point I feel like this cant get any less structurally sound considering the previous rebuild.

[RandyMarsh303]

Is this even worth continuing or should I stop now and look for a shell to swap things into? I am no pro and I feel like I am in over my head........

[chuckthefuk]

You should have pulled the entire front end out and then cut and reweld.. But whats done is done..

Majority of the supports / panels are spot welded on and can be removed with a steady hand and a drill bit or spot weld drill bits.

..

I must say not many members or most auto-enthusiast in general would take on a huge body shop task like this.

You can either Start over, measure, cut and weld.

Or.

Buy a new shell like you mentioned.


The second is the "faster" route but at a cost..

I am not sure what to tell you... I feel your pain...
-Chuck

[Okin DaVanh]

.... I was just really unsure of any other way to be able to get the core support into a piece that was able to weld onto what I had...

Pm any mod here, make a thread, PM myself/Dead91Silvia or hit the Body section.
And Before we condemn the whole thing, can we get a pic in the morning/whenever with better light?

[httrdd]

Yea man buy a shell 300-400, swap everything over, scrap the shell 200+. Takes a hit on the wallet, but get out before it start costing you more.